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Wargaming.net Mega-thread, part 2 (WoT, WoWP, WoWS)

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Licana
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Founded: Jul 26, 2010
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Postby Licana » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:58 pm

The Greater Luthorian Empire wrote:
Licana wrote:ofc you can peak while leading an assault. There is a difference between leading the charge and suiciding, you know?

That didn't answer my point. What pray tell is the ideal tank for leading a charge? What traits are ideal for such a task? An ideal sidescraper for example has a rear or central turret, thick side armour and doesn't have a pike nose. Even if you cannot think of an ideal vehicle you should at least be able to think of ideal traits.

You somehow assume that I can't because I decided to put forth the idea that your ideal characteristics were based on what appeared to be flawed assumptions instead of presenting my own personal tactics? That's amusing.

First off, there isn't a clear-cut, definitively optimal set of traits, there is some dependence on playstyle and user skill. Not to imply that this somehow makes fat, slow, low alpha heavies relevant at anything in this meta. If I'm looking for an aggressive vehicle, I prioritize high alpha/burst to reduce exposure, decent enough frontal/side protection to be workable in head-on engagements, mobility to maintain momentum and flex. DPM isn't terribly important as long as it isn't crippling (most high alpha tanks have competitive DPM anyway). Everything else isn't hugely important. P. much the IS series are the perfect aggressive heavies, with the american heavies running close second (their armour lets them down, though their great fire control can mitigate that).

The take-away from this is that this requires more of a generalist. As you never know what map you're going to end up on or what your team is going to do, you have to be ready to do anything if you want to consistently do successful aggressive action. One-trick ponies don't work, and no-trick ponies like the churchill in this meta definitely don't work.

Morrdh wrote:Most games I get 1 or 2 kills on average, occasionally 3 kills with 5 kills being really good games (one 5 kill game was in the TOG). I never claimed high dpg, especially since I never ever use Premium ammo and never will. But often to win WoT it needs to be a team effort and you know what random battles are like.

First off, if what you said was true, you'd probably have close to a 2 kill/game. You don't. You have a 0.7. That means, on average, you don't get 1 or two kills per game; it's more like one or two kills every two games.

Secondly, it's p. easy to get high DPG values w/o using premium. Most tanks don't need premium spam in the first place, and increases in skill and general game knowledge just make this more true. That being said, I will never advise someone to carry no premium. It's a useful tool, especially for when you end up at the bottom of the team on the MM charts.

Thirdly, WoT may be a team game, but this does not mean that a core 1-3 players can't make a big difference in the games that they play. The only constant variable in every game is you and your actions. This reflects in all of the tracked statistics. Yes, there are some games in which no amount of personal effort will pull out the victory. Everyone gets those. The clincher is how many games you can personally swing from the middle. It may be hard to remember that the best of the best of any server generally hovers in the 70% WR range, which means they still lose three out of every ten games they play on average. Even the most skilled players still lose quite a bit, in the grand scheme of things.
Last edited by Licana on Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
>American education
[19:21] <Lubyak> I want to go and wank all over him.
Puzikas wrote:Gulf War One was like Slapstick: The War. Except, you know, up to 40,000 people died.

Vitaphone Racing wrote:Never in all my years have I seen someone actually quote the dictionary and still get the definition wrong.

Husseinarti wrote:
Vitaphone Racing wrote:Do lets. I really want to hear another explanation about dirty vaginas keeping women out of combat, despite the vagina being a self-cleaning organ.

So was the M-16.

Senestrum wrote:How are KEPs cowardly? Surely the "real man" would in fact be the one firing giant rods of nuclear waste at speeds best described as "hilarious".

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Kassaran
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Kassaran » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:00 pm

Licana wrote:
Morrdh wrote:
Personally I feel winrates is just BS, countless games I've stacked up the kills and held flanks only to be let down by the rest of the team.

Confirmation bias, if this were true and you could "stack up the kills and single handedly hold flanks" you'd have had more of an effect on your games. If I had an EU client I could probably explain this further by looking at your more in-depth stats for the tank, but I don't.

I have never, ever, seen anyone with a large sample of games with a low WR and high dpg/kpg, which is what claims like yours would imply.

I'd argue for myself, but that's only because I actually have games like that, but then I have games where we win and I did shit. I have games that we lose because I went to the wrong flank and though I got five kills, so did two players on the other team I easily could have killed if I had properly located myself. Occasionally I do have those days though where I start on my fifteen game losing streaks and I'm coming up grape-ape in every game I play, then the first game I win to break the streak is in my Crusader and I got effectively no damage, no spotting, and a free-ticket to the garage because KV-2 guided Stalin missile round from 700m away. :\
Beware: Walls of Text Generally appear Above this Sig.
Zarkenis Ultima wrote:Tristan noticed footsteps behind him and looked there, only to see Eric approaching and then pointing his sword at the girl. He just blinked a few times at this before speaking.

"Put that down, Mr. Eric." He said. "She's obviously not a chicken."
The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:You keep that cheap Chinese knock-off away from the real OG...

bloody hell, mate.
that's a real deal. We just don't buy the license rights.

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The Greater Luthorian Empire
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Postby The Greater Luthorian Empire » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:03 pm

Morrdh wrote:
Tagmatium wrote:Why don't you use premium ammo?


I just don't, hell I don't even have a premium account.

You can get premium ammo without a premium account, just switch to buy with credits. Its expensive but it really comes in handy when you are facing tanks 2 tiers above you. Granted the proliferation of premium ammo does annoy me and I feel like it needs more balance like lower accuracy or lower damage.
Imperializt Russia wrote:They told me I could be anything, so I became a razor blade.

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The Greater Luthorian Empire
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Postby The Greater Luthorian Empire » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:05 pm

Kassaran wrote:
Licana wrote:Confirmation bias, if this were true and you could "stack up the kills and single handedly hold flanks" you'd have had more of an effect on your games. If I had an EU client I could probably explain this further by looking at your more in-depth stats for the tank, but I don't.

I have never, ever, seen anyone with a large sample of games with a low WR and high dpg/kpg, which is what claims like yours would imply.

I'd argue for myself, but that's only because I actually have games like that, but then I have games where we win and I did shit. I have games that we lose because I went to the wrong flank and though I got five kills, so did two players on the other team I easily could have killed if I had properly located myself. Occasionally I do have those days though where I start on my fifteen game losing streaks and I'm coming up grape-ape in every game I play, then the first game I win to break the streak is in my Crusader and I got effectively no damage, no spotting, and a free-ticket to the garage because KV-2 guided Stalin missile round from 700m away. :\

My winrate is utter shit because I hate grinding through certain vehicles so I just load up and run into death's grip. The Pz-38Na, Churchill VII, Lee, and the tank right before the T28 prototype ruined my winrate. I still don't have a sherman because I refuse to touch the fucking Lee.
Imperializt Russia wrote:They told me I could be anything, so I became a razor blade.

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Kassaran
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Postby Kassaran » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:10 pm

The Greater Luthorian Empire wrote:
Kassaran wrote:I'd argue for myself, but that's only because I actually have games like that, but then I have games where we win and I did shit. I have games that we lose because I went to the wrong flank and though I got five kills, so did two players on the other team I easily could have killed if I had properly located myself. Occasionally I do have those days though where I start on my fifteen game losing streaks and I'm coming up grape-ape in every game I play, then the first game I win to break the streak is in my Crusader and I got effectively no damage, no spotting, and a free-ticket to the garage because KV-2 guided Stalin missile round from 700m away. :\

My winrate is utter shit because I hate grinding through certain vehicles so I just load up and run into death's grip. The Pz-38Na, Churchill VII, Lee, and the tank right before the T28 prototype ruined my winrate. I still don't have a sherman because I refuse to touch the fucking Lee.

I'm honestly going to go back one day and only play it for dailies using only GOLD to get through each battle. Then I can say I rightfully earned my Sherman.
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Zarkenis Ultima wrote:Tristan noticed footsteps behind him and looked there, only to see Eric approaching and then pointing his sword at the girl. He just blinked a few times at this before speaking.

"Put that down, Mr. Eric." He said. "She's obviously not a chicken."
The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:You keep that cheap Chinese knock-off away from the real OG...

bloody hell, mate.
that's a real deal. We just don't buy the license rights.

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Tagmatium
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Postby Tagmatium » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:10 pm

The Greater Luthorian Empire wrote:
Tagmatium wrote:Why don't you use premium ammo?

Only scrubs use premium ammo in random matches. Plus it is annoying if you ever run at a loss in a tier VI game because you switched to gold and either had to keep using it or forgot to switch back (once switched to gold to deal with an IS-3 with my BP, forgot to switch back, fired off like 20 gold rounds by the end of it, I was pissed).

Pfft, I tend to only play random matches these days and most of my tanks have at least some premium ammunition. Albeit I think I've fired off a premium round in my T29 less than a handful of times and my KV-1S and my SU-152 don't have any.

I don't see the point in ignoring something that is available and doesn't even cost money these days.
The above post may or may not be serious.
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North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Licana
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Postby Licana » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:12 pm

Honestly, it's been claimed that suicide-scouting and just plain over-aggressive play is more time-efficient than gudplay in terms of getting through the vehicles. That being said, I've never done that precisely because it wrecks your stats in the long term, and also because it just seems unfun. Knowing you can at least do well in garbage tanks is a sort of challenge I like to rise to, even though it usually just ends up infuriating me. :p

edit: and the Lee isn't that bad, especially if you already have experience with casemate TDs.
Last edited by Licana on Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
>American education
[19:21] <Lubyak> I want to go and wank all over him.
Puzikas wrote:Gulf War One was like Slapstick: The War. Except, you know, up to 40,000 people died.

Vitaphone Racing wrote:Never in all my years have I seen someone actually quote the dictionary and still get the definition wrong.

Husseinarti wrote:
Vitaphone Racing wrote:Do lets. I really want to hear another explanation about dirty vaginas keeping women out of combat, despite the vagina being a self-cleaning organ.

So was the M-16.

Senestrum wrote:How are KEPs cowardly? Surely the "real man" would in fact be the one firing giant rods of nuclear waste at speeds best described as "hilarious".

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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:15 pm

The Greater Luthorian Empire wrote:
Kassaran wrote:I'd argue for myself, but that's only because I actually have games like that, but then I have games where we win and I did shit. I have games that we lose because I went to the wrong flank and though I got five kills, so did two players on the other team I easily could have killed if I had properly located myself. Occasionally I do have those days though where I start on my fifteen game losing streaks and I'm coming up grape-ape in every game I play, then the first game I win to break the streak is in my Crusader and I got effectively no damage, no spotting, and a free-ticket to the garage because KV-2 guided Stalin missile round from 700m away. :\

My winrate is utter shit because I hate grinding through certain vehicles so I just load up and run into death's grip. The Pz-38Na, Churchill VII, Lee, and the tank right before the T28 prototype ruined my winrate. I still don't have a sherman because I refuse to touch the fucking Lee.

Maybe it will get better the more you play. Maybe not. It pretty much depends on if you get added to fixed MM lists.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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Licana
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Postby Licana » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:16 pm

Hurdegaryp wrote:Maybe it will get better the more you play. Maybe not. It pretty much depends on if you get added to fixed MM lists.


Or, you know, improving your game.
>American education
[19:21] <Lubyak> I want to go and wank all over him.
Puzikas wrote:Gulf War One was like Slapstick: The War. Except, you know, up to 40,000 people died.

Vitaphone Racing wrote:Never in all my years have I seen someone actually quote the dictionary and still get the definition wrong.

Husseinarti wrote:
Vitaphone Racing wrote:Do lets. I really want to hear another explanation about dirty vaginas keeping women out of combat, despite the vagina being a self-cleaning organ.

So was the M-16.

Senestrum wrote:How are KEPs cowardly? Surely the "real man" would in fact be the one firing giant rods of nuclear waste at speeds best described as "hilarious".

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The Greater Luthorian Empire
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Postby The Greater Luthorian Empire » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:18 pm

Licana wrote:Honestly, it's been claimed that suicide-scouting and just plain over-aggressive play is more time-efficient than gudplay in terms of getting through the vehicles. That being said, I've never done that precisely because it wrecks your stats in the long term, and also because it just seems unfun. Knowing you can at least do well in garbage tanks is a sort of challenge I like to rise to, even though it usually just ends up infuriating me. :p

edit: and the Lee isn't that bad, especially if you already have experience with casemate TDs.

I don't care too much for my stats outside of some random guy berating me in game as incompetent because my stats are shit. My win rate is like 46%, adjusting for only games where I care (using tanks that I didn't really try to grind through because I genuinely enjoy them and don't care for their successors) my win rate is probably 49-51% which while pretty low for how many games I have is good enough for me.

The Lee is just too fucking much for me. Tall, meh armour, a few weak spots that are pretty big, and the casemate being on the right side is pretty terrible, especially with my playstyle. If the gun was in the centre I could potentially deal with it, but the location of the gun just makes it too specialized. Sure it is great if you are turning to your left since you can hide almost everything behind the terrain but otherwise it is a huge hindrance.
Imperializt Russia wrote:They told me I could be anything, so I became a razor blade.

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Kassaran
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Kassaran » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:19 pm

Licana wrote:Honestly, it's been claimed that suicide-scouting and just plain over-aggressive play is more time-efficient than gudplay in terms of getting through the vehicles. That being said, I've never done that precisely because it wrecks your stats in the long term, and also because it just seems unfun. Knowing you can at least do well in garbage tanks is a sort of challenge I like to rise to, even though it usually just ends up infuriating me. :p

edit: and the Lee isn't that bad, especially if you already have experience with casemate TDs.

Youu know Licana, I think that actually is one of the most encouraging things I've heard. I've played with outright utter bullshit tanks, got a decent winrate, (though occasionally I got bullshit WR too), and then when I started to play tanks people said were noob-smackers and seal-clubber tanks, I realized it took the fun out of the game for me because it was true. I was quite literally too good. I'd get bored, not want to play them and now I have but my T14, T29, T-127, Pz IC, and my Doom-Toaster as my long-term tanks in my garage. The Pz IC because there's nothing like shitting out ungodly amounts of APCR rifle-calibre munitions on people whom can tell it is all APCR, the T14 because I actually find it to be a tier VI medium and tier V heavy and when I play it like either in the appropriate situation, I get good results, T29 because... well because nothing says Freedom like 105mm of APCR smashing through the front of those cocky Ruskies, and the Doom-Toaster, well, I've had far too many people complain it's op to give the thing the top-gun that it does have. Though I think I'll keep it as my trainer for the Nashorn, get the crew on it trained up one skill, then have them swap over to the Nashorn with full 100%.
Beware: Walls of Text Generally appear Above this Sig.
Zarkenis Ultima wrote:Tristan noticed footsteps behind him and looked there, only to see Eric approaching and then pointing his sword at the girl. He just blinked a few times at this before speaking.

"Put that down, Mr. Eric." He said. "She's obviously not a chicken."
The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:You keep that cheap Chinese knock-off away from the real OG...

bloody hell, mate.
that's a real deal. We just don't buy the license rights.

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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:20 pm

Licana wrote:
Hurdegaryp wrote:Maybe it will get better the more you play. Maybe not. It pretty much depends on if you get added to fixed MM lists.

Or, you know, improving your game.

Oh, I've been doing that for a while now. But I'm not blind, you know. I am capable of discovering patterns.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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Licana
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Postby Licana » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:23 pm

The Greater Luthorian Empire wrote:The Lee is just too fucking much for me. Tall, meh armour, a few weak spots that are pretty big, and the casemate being on the right side is pretty terrible, especially with my playstyle. If the gun was in the centre I could potentially deal with it, but the location of the gun just makes it too specialized. Sure it is great if you are turning to your left since you can hide almost everything behind the terrain but otherwise it is a huge hindrance.


All of this is true, but you're also out of the lee in like, 20 games. Tops. If it were tier 6 and actually required a notable grind, I might agree with you. It doesn't, though. :p
>American education
[19:21] <Lubyak> I want to go and wank all over him.
Puzikas wrote:Gulf War One was like Slapstick: The War. Except, you know, up to 40,000 people died.

Vitaphone Racing wrote:Never in all my years have I seen someone actually quote the dictionary and still get the definition wrong.

Husseinarti wrote:
Vitaphone Racing wrote:Do lets. I really want to hear another explanation about dirty vaginas keeping women out of combat, despite the vagina being a self-cleaning organ.

So was the M-16.

Senestrum wrote:How are KEPs cowardly? Surely the "real man" would in fact be the one firing giant rods of nuclear waste at speeds best described as "hilarious".

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Tagmatium
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Tagmatium » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:25 pm

Kassaran wrote:
Licana wrote:Honestly, it's been claimed that suicide-scouting and just plain over-aggressive play is more time-efficient than gudplay in terms of getting through the vehicles. That being said, I've never done that precisely because it wrecks your stats in the long term, and also because it just seems unfun. Knowing you can at least do well in garbage tanks is a sort of challenge I like to rise to, even though it usually just ends up infuriating me. :p

edit: and the Lee isn't that bad, especially if you already have experience with casemate TDs.

Youu know Licana, I think that actually is one of the most encouraging things I've heard. I've played with outright utter bullshit tanks, got a decent winrate, (though occasionally I got bullshit WR too), and then when I started to play tanks people said were noob-smackers and seal-clubber tanks, I realized it took the fun out of the game for me because it was true. I was quite literally too good. I'd get bored, not want to play them and now I have but my T14, T29, T-127, Pz IC, and my Doom-Toaster as my long-term tanks in my garage. The Pz IC because there's nothing like shitting out ungodly amounts of APCR rifle-calibre munitions on people whom can tell it is all APCR, the T14 because I actually find it to be a tier VI medium and tier V heavy and when I play it like either in the appropriate situation, I get good results, T29 because... well because nothing says Freedom like 105mm of APCR smashing through the front of those cocky Ruskies, and the Doom-Toaster, well, I've had far too many people complain it's op to give the thing the top-gun that it does have. Though I think I'll keep it as my trainer for the Nashorn, get the crew on it trained up one skill, then have them swap over to the Nashorn with full 100%.

I almost never use the APCR on the 105, in most situations, the normal round is good enough. If it doesn't go through the front, I try and flank it. I couldn't say that there aren't situations that that may have well got me killed, and using an APCR shell may well have enabled me to live longer and do a bit more damage.

It may well be something I think about a bit more next time I roll out my T29 and I'm facing higher-tier tanks.

Probably the next game I use it, it feels like I'm running into more Tier IX games in that thing than I used to.
The above post may or may not be serious.
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North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Licana
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Postby Licana » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:28 pm

The T29s APCR pen is absurd, but then again this a trait held by most mid-tier american vehicles.

Fair warning, iirc this patch or the last one slammed the T29's gun handling into the ground, so if you haven't played it in a while that might be a jarring change.

edit: it was 9.1. They nerfed terrain passability, gun handling, reload time, and view range.
Last edited by Licana on Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
>American education
[19:21] <Lubyak> I want to go and wank all over him.
Puzikas wrote:Gulf War One was like Slapstick: The War. Except, you know, up to 40,000 people died.

Vitaphone Racing wrote:Never in all my years have I seen someone actually quote the dictionary and still get the definition wrong.

Husseinarti wrote:
Vitaphone Racing wrote:Do lets. I really want to hear another explanation about dirty vaginas keeping women out of combat, despite the vagina being a self-cleaning organ.

So was the M-16.

Senestrum wrote:How are KEPs cowardly? Surely the "real man" would in fact be the one firing giant rods of nuclear waste at speeds best described as "hilarious".

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Tagmatium
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Tagmatium » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:34 pm

Licana wrote:The T29s APCR pen is absurd, but then again this a trait held by most mid-tier american vehicles.

Fair warning, iirc this patch or the last one slammed the T29's gun handling into the ground, so if you haven't played it in a while that might be a jarring change.

I didn't notice, but my ping was shit. Still got second highest on our team in a Tier IX, but then most on my team didn't seem to be particularly good. Including myself. Did about 1,600 damage and got a kill, but got artied hard, as one of their two IXs was that American arty, the M53/M55. On defending Assault on Siegfried Line.

I've still got the different game modes on because I kind of like the variety.
The above post may or may not be serious.
"For too long, we have been a passive, tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."
North Calaveras wrote:Tagmatium, it was never about pie...

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Revanchism
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Postby Revanchism » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:36 pm

Licana wrote:The T29s APCR pen is absurd, but then again this a trait held by most mid-tier american vehicles.

Fair warning, iirc this patch or the last one slammed the T29's gun handling into the ground, so if you haven't played it in a while that might be a jarring change.

edit: it was 9.1. They nerfed terrain passability, gun handling, reload time, and view range.

Ouch.
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Kolmya wrote:

Should have been titled A Trve Friend.
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The Rodina wrote:It was american is hardly an argument.
It's the only argument I need.

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Licana
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Postby Licana » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:40 pm

The reload and view range nerfs weren't that bad, -0.4s and -10 view range.

The passability nerfs were huge, and the gun handling nerfs were fairly big themselves.
>American education
[19:21] <Lubyak> I want to go and wank all over him.
Puzikas wrote:Gulf War One was like Slapstick: The War. Except, you know, up to 40,000 people died.

Vitaphone Racing wrote:Never in all my years have I seen someone actually quote the dictionary and still get the definition wrong.

Husseinarti wrote:
Vitaphone Racing wrote:Do lets. I really want to hear another explanation about dirty vaginas keeping women out of combat, despite the vagina being a self-cleaning organ.

So was the M-16.

Senestrum wrote:How are KEPs cowardly? Surely the "real man" would in fact be the one firing giant rods of nuclear waste at speeds best described as "hilarious".

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Morrdh
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Postby Morrdh » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:52 pm

Licana wrote:First off, if what you said was true, you'd probably have close to a 2 kill/game. You don't. You have a 0.7. That means, on average, you don't get 1 or two kills per game; it's more like one or two kills every two games.


Note I said most games I get 1 or 2 kills, never said that it was every game that I got kills.

Secondly, it's p. easy to get high DPG values w/o using premium. Most tanks don't need premium spam in the first place, and increases in skill and general game knowledge just make this more true. That being said, I will never advise someone to carry no premium. It's a useful tool, especially for when you end up at the bottom of the team on the MM charts.


I know, it boils down to a simple matter of keeping your gun firing. Have no intention of using premium especially after killing a Tier X in my Comet.
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Licana
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Postby Licana » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:55 pm

Morrdh wrote:Note I said most games I get 1 or 2 kills, never said that it was every game that I got kills.

Doesn't change much, still implies much higher performance that what your actual average indicates.

Morrdh wrote:I know, it boils down to a simple matter of keeping your gun firing. Have no intention of using premium especially after killing a Tier X in my Comet.

Quit fail platooning. :p
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United Kingdom of Poland
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Postby United Kingdom of Poland » Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:01 pm

Licana wrote:Honestly, it's been claimed that suicide-scouting and just plain over-aggressive play is more time-efficient than gudplay in terms of getting through the vehicles. That being said, I've never done that precisely because it wrecks your stats in the long term, and also because it just seems unfun. Knowing you can at least do well in garbage tanks is a sort of challenge I like to rise to, even though it usually just ends up infuriating me. :p

edit: and the Lee isn't that bad, especially if you already have experience with casemate TDs.

yes but if you only have used light tanks until then your fucked.

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The Greater Luthorian Empire
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Postby The Greater Luthorian Empire » Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:07 pm

Licana wrote:You somehow assume that I can't because I decided to put forth the idea that your ideal characteristics were based on what appeared to be flawed assumptions instead of presenting my own personal tactics? That's amusing.

I never implied or assumed that you cannot state some preferred characteristics.

If I'm looking for an aggressive vehicle, I prioritize high alpha/burst to reduce exposure

If you are popping out, shooting, and running back you aren't leading the charge you are just sitting in place trading shots, and while that is useful at times it sure as hell doesn't allow your team to move forward any time soon.

decent enough frontal/side protection to be workable in head-on engagements, mobility to maintain momentum and flex.

While mobility is nice it isn't something that the churchill line inherently lacks, the BP actually has good handling, its speed is simply capped at 20 km/h, it can maintain that speed up some pretty steep hills and can reach that speed quickly.

Everything else isn't hugely important. P. much the IS series are the perfect aggressive heavies, with the american heavies running close second (their armour lets them down, though their great fire control can mitigate that).

While I agree that the IS are good aggressive heavies, the American heavies aren't at all as you can't take the initiative without exposing your soft hull. The enemy on the other side of a small ridge? Shit out of luck I guess because the second you peak the ridge you are getting popped in the hull.

The take-away from this is that this requires more of a generalist. As you never know what map you're going to end up on or what your team is going to do, you have to be ready to do anything if you want to consistently do successful aggressive action. One-trick ponies don't work, and no-trick ponies like the churchill in this meta definitely don't work.

And yet one trick ponies that cannot expose their hull or cannot deal with facing an aggressive opponent because their slow rate of fire apparently work? Heavy tanks are pretty much all specialized simply in different ways, Brit heavies (at least 5-7 tiers) are low profile, well protected, high HP tanks with rapid fire guns, the KV-1S and IS line are largely the opposite, relying on big, high alpha guns with more mobility, low hp, and a higher speed. American tanks are probably the most specialized of all with their paper hulls and impenetrable turrets since at least German, British, and Soviet heavies have relatively decent hull and turret armour.

When I talk about leading the charge I don't mean "hey, why don't I sit here trading shots for three minutes with another tank." I mean "hey I'm gonna rush past this lone IS so my team will move forward and stop sitting in this valley with three heavies being held up by far fewer enemy tanks." Is it risky? Sure. Do I die a lot? Yes. Do I find it useful in winning battles? Definitely, several times I've gotten 2 or 3 artillery kills with my churchills because I went to an area out of the way, killed a lone medium or low tier heavy, and ended up in the enemy base after just 2 or 3 minutes before any enemies could respond.
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Tagmatium
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Postby Tagmatium » Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:09 pm

Licana wrote:The reload and view range nerfs weren't that bad, -0.4s and -10 view range.

The passability nerfs were huge, and the gun handling nerfs were fairly big themselves.

Yeah, that terrain passability nerfs are pretty harsh.
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Graditora
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Postby Graditora » Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:27 pm

Why is there hate on the Lee!? Everyone should be hating the tier IV French TD. That tank I feel is a POS. That's coming from a Lee lover.
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Kassaran
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Postby Kassaran » Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:28 pm

Licana wrote:The T29s APCR pen is absurd, but then again this a trait held by most mid-tier american vehicles.

Fair warning, iirc this patch or the last one slammed the T29's gun handling into the ground, so if you haven't played it in a while that might be a jarring change.

edit: it was 9.1. They nerfed terrain passability, gun handling, reload time, and view range.

APCR pen is greatest thing ever. Gets SOO many people pissed at me. I've platooned with T32's and outdone them with my 29. Trust me, if I'm on my game, then I'm deadly in the thing. As for the gun handling, yeah, noticed it had dropped... a little. FDR however still guides each shell to instill a healthy fear into any unwary players. Most mid-tier American vehicles scare the shit out of Russians and Brits because the Brits and Russians know the Americans have shit Alpha, shit Armor (if you don't know what you're doing) and generally because of the combination of the first two, poor survivability. Then they discover that if your crew has piercing shot... you're a scary-ass mother fucker because all you shoot all day long is AP.

Also, as a note, I load out my T29 with 20 rounds AP, 10 rounds APCR, and 5 rounds HE. Should I carry more or do you think that's enough Licana? I had the bad habit early on when I got the T29 that I fired too freely with the 105 and didn't realize it until I started running out of silver after every match in the thing. Now that I'm absurdly better in the thing (I see now why it's a grinding and training tank for higher tier American Heavy tanks), I don't do that, I often look at my ammo, I'm one of those guys who loads exactly what he wants to shoot, and I can generally hit exactly where I'm looking.
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