ASoIAF/Game of Thrones general Discussion Thread

[Shaggai]

Spoiler that damn thing!!
(I knew that, but others won't)

EDIT:
Though to give a proper reply.
That may be true, but only for the Iron Throne. We are speaking about the Kingdom in the North.
I count the right to independence of the single kingdoms as higher than the right of the heir/ess to the Iron Throne to conquer all of them.

That being said, I'm a Northern Irredentist, so what do I know.

Fuck people who hates spoilers and their stupid argument of "Oh, I can’t enjoy it anymore because you spoiled it." BITCH! THE ENTIRE LOTR TRILOGY WAS SPOILED TO ME AND IT WAS STILL GREAT! A good movie/show is still great even if you spoil it. A crap movie will be more.crap if it is spoiled.

One of the best things about ASOIAF is that GRRM does the unexpected. So spoiling it makes it significantly worse. LOTR is different, because it's a classic mythologic saga sort of thing. You know how it's going to end, so spoilers aren't that bad. Whereas with ASOIAF you don't know what will happen next, so spoilers are terrible.

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

Fuck people who hates spoilers and their stupid argument of "Oh, I can’t enjoy it anymore because you spoiled it." BITCH! THE ENTIRE LOTR TRILOGY WAS SPOILED TO ME AND IT WAS STILL GREAT! A good movie/show is still great even if you spoil it. A crap movie will be more.crap if it is spoiled.

One of the best things about ASOIAF is that GRRM does the unexpected. So spoiling it makes it significantly worse. LOTR is different, because it's a classic mythologic saga sort of thing. You know how it's going to end, so spoilers aren't that bad. Whereas with ASOIAF you don't know what will happen next, so spoilers are terrible.

With all the deaths I think they’re forshadowing Danaery’s death. Also, the shit I’m spoiling is done in both the books and the TV series. Well, except the Aegon part.

[Bralia]

The poll lacks a loyalty to the Night's Watch. I am disappoint. In the absence of the Black Brothers, I declare for House Stark.

I just started reading a Storm of Swords about a week ago and I've started watching season 2 of the series. I think the most offensive liberty to come out of season 2 so far is the look of Stannis. Stannis looks nothing like he was portrayed to be in the books. I took a quick glance on the ASoIAF wiki a short while ago to see if anybody else had come up with a good artistic vision of Stannis and I thought the very first picture I saw nailed it.

[Charellia]

The poll lacks a loyalty to the Night's Watch. I am disappoint. In the absence of the Black Brothers, I declare for House Stark.

I just started reading a Storm of Swords about a week ago and I've started watching season 2 of the series. I think the most offensive liberty to come out of season 2 so far is the look of Stannis. Stannis looks nothing like he was portrayed to be in the books. I took a quick glance on the ASoIAF wiki a short while ago to see if anybody else had come up with a good artistic vision of Stannis and I thought the very first picture I saw nailed it.

I disagree. I thought Stannis was really well cast. He's plain and unremarkable looking to the point that if you saw him next to Davos and didn't know their relationship you would assume Davos was the king. I think that's a great way of showing how uninspiring a leader he is.

[Valentir]

The poll lacks a loyalty to the Night's Watch. I am disappoint. In the absence of the Black Brothers, I declare for House Stark.

I just started reading a Storm of Swords about a week ago and I've started watching season 2 of the series. I think the most offensive liberty to come out of season 2 so far is the look of Stannis. Stannis looks nothing like he was portrayed to be in the books. I took a quick glance on the ASoIAF wiki a short while ago to see if anybody else had come up with a good artistic vision of Stannis and I thought the very first picture I saw nailed it.

Indeed. I was heavily disappointed with the entire portrayal of Stannis.

[Charellia]

the two characters i dislike the most are Cersei Lannister and Margery Tyrell. Cersei is like a Margaret Thatcher on super steroids in terms of level of ruthlessness (the only character who is worse that I have ever seen is Claire Underwood from House of Cards)...

Margery is too manipulative and too much of a slut. I know people say she does what she does to survive or for a greater good etc but I don't like women who use their sexuality to get ahead, i just can't stand such characters...

I think you're being unfair to Margery (I suspect I'm spelling this wrong). She was basically sold to Renly and then to Joffrey. The show doesn't make it clear, but in the books both marriages were arranged by her father. Yes she does manipulate Joffrey but no more so than Cersei or Tyrion. The fact that she uses his attraction to her to achieve this can't really be held against her as Joffrey is a psychopath against whom she really had no other defense.

Except maybe poison.

Beside this Margery is clearly designed to illustrate the ridiculous double standard in Westeros (compare her actions to Tyrion and see what I mean), which she pretty much states herself in Season 3.

I am aware of what happens in this book involving Margery, but we don't actually know how much of the allegations are true and how much Cercei faked. I also realize that she appears very manipulative, but again we only ever view her through the lens of Cercei's paranoia so its hard to say what is true.

[Infected Mushroom]

the two characters i dislike the most are Cersei Lannister and Margery Tyrell. Cersei is like a Margaret Thatcher on super steroids in terms of level of ruthlessness (the only character who is worse that I have ever seen is Claire Underwood from House of Cards)...

Margery is too manipulative and too much of a slut. I know people say she does what she does to survive or for a greater good etc but I don't like women who use their sexuality to get ahead, i just can't stand such characters...

I think you're being unfair to Margery (I suspect I'm spelling this wrong). She was basically sold to Renly and then to Joffrey. The show doesn't make it clear, but in the books both marriages were arranged by her father. Yes she does manipulate Joffrey but no more so than Cersei or Tyrion. The fact that she uses his attraction to her to achieve this can't really be held against her as Joffrey is a psychopath against whom she really had no other defense.

Except maybe poison.

Beside this Margery is clearly designed to illustrate the ridiculous double standard in Westeros (compare her actions to Tyrion and see what I mean), which she pretty much states herself in Season 3.

I am aware of what happens in this book involving Margery, but we don't actually know how much of the allegations are true and how much Cercei faked. I also realize that she appears very manipulative, but again we only ever view her through the lens of Cercei's paranoia so its hard to say what is true.

i have not not read the books and have only watched the show... perhaps Margery has still many great moments to really shine... I'll give her a chance...

maybe her moments just haven't arrived yet...

[Bralia]

The poll lacks a loyalty to the Night's Watch. I am disappoint. In the absence of the Black Brothers, I declare for House Stark.

I just started reading a Storm of Swords about a week ago and I've started watching season 2 of the series. I think the most offensive liberty to come out of season 2 so far is the look of Stannis. Stannis looks nothing like he was portrayed to be in the books. I took a quick glance on the ASoIAF wiki a short while ago to see if anybody else had come up with a good artistic vision of Stannis and I thought the very first picture I saw nailed it.

I disagree. I thought Stannis was really well cast. He's plain and unremarkable looking to the point that if you saw him next to Davos and didn't know their relationship you would assume Davos was the king. I think that's a great way of showing how uninspiring a leader he is.

I honestly haven't watched much of him yet, but I'll have a go at it nevertheless: You're absolutely correct. Stannis doesn't look kingly at all and that's part of the problem. He looks like a common noble. Every character in the series who has a claim to influence gives off the aura of their power. Ned Stark. Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin and even Joffrey. Petyr Baelish. And so many more. I was actually impressed by Melisandre. She's the first person in the series so far that's actually exceeded my impression of her after first reading the books. But Stannis . . . he falls flat. When I was reading of him, I got the impression that he exuded a very raw power. He may not be loved by his subjects, but I got the distinct impression that he had the aura of command. I think the main issue is just that the GoT casters make a bad choice of actor. They didn't even choose someone who matches Stannis's basic appearance:

Like his brothers, Robert and Renly, Stannis is a large man - tall, broad shouldered and sinewy. While he is not described as being particularly unattractive, he is also not considered as handsome as Renly or Robert was in his youth. Stannis has dark blue eyes. His head has only a fringe of black hair "like the shadow of a crown," and a close-cropped beard across his large jaw. His face has a tightness to it like cured leather, and he has hollow cheeks. He has thin, pale lips.

[Infected Mushroom]

I disagree. I thought Stannis was really well cast. He's plain and unremarkable looking to the point that if you saw him next to Davos and didn't know their relationship you would assume Davos was the king. I think that's a great way of showing how uninspiring a leader he is.

I honestly haven't watched much of him yet, but I'll have a go at it nevertheless: You're absolutely correct. Stannis doesn't look kingly at all and that's part of the problem. He looks like a common noble. Every character in the series who has a claim to influence gives off the aura of their power. Ned Stark. Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin and even Joffrey. Petyr Baelish. And so many more. I was actually impressed by Melisandre. She's the first person in the series so far that's actually exceeded my impression of her after first reading the books. But Stannis . . . he falls flat. When I was reading of him, I got the impression that he exuded a very raw power. He may not be loved by his subjects, but I got the distinct impression that he had the aura of command. I think the main issue is just that the GoT casters make a bad choice of actor. They didn't even choose someone who matches Stannis's basic appearance:

Like his brothers, Robert and Renly, Stannis is a large man - tall, broad shouldered and sinewy. While he is not described as being particularly unattractive, he is also not considered as handsome as Renly or Robert was in his youth. Stannis has dark blue eyes. His head has only a fringe of black hair "like the shadow of a crown," and a close-cropped beard across his large jaw. His face has a tightness to it like cured leather, and he has hollow cheeks. He has thin, pale lips.

who do you see playing Stannis then?

[Bralia]

I honestly haven't watched much of him yet, but I'll have a go at it nevertheless: You're absolutely correct. Stannis doesn't look kingly at all and that's part of the problem. He looks like a common noble. Every character in the series who has a claim to influence gives off the aura of their power. Ned Stark. Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin and even Joffrey. Petyr Baelish. And so many more. I was actually impressed by Melisandre. She's the first person in the series so far that's actually exceeded my impression of her after first reading the books. But Stannis . . . he falls flat. When I was reading of him, I got the impression that he exuded a very raw power. He may not be loved by his subjects, but I got the distinct impression that he had the aura of command. I think the main issue is just that the GoT casters make a bad choice of actor. They didn't even choose someone who matches Stannis's basic appearance:

who do you see playing Stannis then?

I have no idea. . Just not Stephen Dillane. If Robert Picardo had a meaner look to him, he could almost pull it off . . .

[Derpferp F Fiddle]

I've never watched this show but my friends talk about it. I hear it's basically a bunch of medieval boobs everywhere

[Valica]

If I think that King Baratheon's bastard son should be the next king, does that mean I root for the Baratheons?

[Raurosia]

I strongly support Stannis. The guy's been through so much and he deserves it, even though he's a bit of a...well, you know " "

EDIT: I don't watch the show, only the books. Stannis does seem to be an inspiring leader, to the few that follow him/that he finds worthy. And Stannis isn't really a religious fanatic in any sense, (if I remember correctly) he just uses the Red God's power to benefit his just claim to the throne

[The Jonathanian States]

I've never watched this show but my friends talk about it. I hear it's basically a bunch of medieval boobs everywhere

Let me quote Cersei to tell you what there is in ASoIaF/GoT

...... schemes and plots

Seriously, go watch/read it, it's fun.

If I think that King Baratheon's bastard son should be the next king, does that mean I root for the Baratheons?

Technically.
Though by Westerosi (Andal, that is) Law, a true brother comes before a bastard (therefore Stannis, and then Renly).
Additionally,

He joins the Brotherhood without Banners.

Which reminds me, the Brotherhood without Banners should also be in the poll.

Ramsay claimed that he won against Stannis in his letter to Jon.
But Seeing as Stannis got a visit from multiple Karstark outriders a few chapters before that, I think he's bluffing.
Regardless, he has pulled Jon Snow, and the whole of the Watch with its Wilding support again the Dreadfort!
Jon snow has like become my favorite living character, being all that badass 'n stuff.

Really? I can't wait that long!!

The Night's Watch isn't going to stop Ramsay. They aren't allowed to interfere in the affairs of the realm. Jon Snow tried to get them to interfere and they mutinied (more over the wildlings but that was part of it). I'm not sure you can really say that Jon is your favourite living character at this point. Various forms of possible resurrection not withstanding he seems pretty dead.

Oh, right. I forgot that chapter. I really wanted them to intervene, and that murder annoyed me, so I must have avoided remembering it.
Though who knows, the Red Woman saved Mance because she valued him, possibly she played the same trick with Jon.
But probably we must say, RIP Jon, your watch has ended. And another person related to Sean Bean goes down the drain.

the two characters i dislike the most are Cersei Lannister and Margery Tyrell. Cersei is like a Margaret Thatcher on super steroids in terms of level of ruthlessness (the only character who is worse that I have ever seen is Claire Underwood from House of Cards)...

Margery is too manipulative and too much of a slut. I know people say she does what she does to survive or for a greater good etc but I don't like women who use their sexuality to get ahead, i just can't stand such characters...

I think you're being unfair to Margery (I suspect I'm spelling this wrong). She was basically sold to Renly and then to Joffrey. The show doesn't make it clear, but in the books both marriages were arranged by her father. Yes she does manipulate Joffrey but no more so than Cersei or Tyrion. The fact that she uses his attraction to her to achieve this can't really be held against her as Joffrey is a psychopath against whom she really had no other defense.

Except maybe poison.

Beside this Margery is clearly designed to illustrate the ridiculous double standard in Westeros (compare her actions to Tyrion and see what I mean), which she pretty much states herself in Season 3.

I am aware of what happens in this book involving Margery, but we don't actually know how much of the allegations are true and how much Cercei faked. I also realize that she appears very manipulative, but again we only ever view her through the lens of Cercei's paranoia so its hard to say what is true.

As far as we know, all of it(about Margaery is false. I mean, we know Cersei organized Osfrey's false reports, and that Qyburn tortured people until they "confessed".
So unless we hear of somebody admitting to those crimes, or see them happening from the point of view of a chapter (say a chapter from Margaery's PoV where she mentions her crimes, I think we can safely assume everything to be Cersei's work.

But then again, I might be a bit biased due to being very anti-Cersei or Lannister(except Tyrion).
Also, about that other thing in Season 4/Book 3

I don't quite believe it was her. I think the best bets would be the Viper, poisoning for revenge, which

He'll kinda get. I say kinda, because well, how good is revenge if you die for it..

Fuck people who hates spoilers and their stupid argument of "Oh, I can’t enjoy it anymore because you spoiled it." BITCH! THE ENTIRE LOTR TRILOGY WAS SPOILED TO ME AND IT WAS STILL GREAT! A good movie/show is still great even if you spoil it. A crap movie will be more.crap if it is spoiled.

One of the best things about ASOIAF is that GRRM does the unexpected. So spoiling it makes it significantly worse. LOTR is different, because it's a classic mythologic saga sort of thing. You know how it's going to end, so spoilers aren't that bad. Whereas with ASOIAF you don't know what will happen next, so spoilers are terrible.

I definitely have to agree.
I had the luck to not see spoilers (and to now be safe from them, for a while), though I really agree.

One of the best things about ASOIAF is that GRRM does the unexpected. So spoiling it makes it significantly worse. LOTR is different, because it's a classic mythologic saga sort of thing. You know how it's going to end, so spoilers aren't that bad. Whereas with ASOIAF you don't know what will happen next, so spoilers are terrible.

With all the deaths I think they’re forshadowing Danaery’s death. Also, the shit I’m spoiling is done in both the books and the TV series. Well, except the Aegon part.

I don't know what you have or haven't read/watched, but as of the last book

Dany is standing before Jhaqo's Great Khalasar.
Though her dragon is by her side, and they are just before the dragon, therefore in cruelly close range to be grilled. So I don't think she'll be harmed.

Additionally,

Dorne seems to be leaning towards allying with Aegon/Connigton, seeing as they managed to capture Storm's End rapidly, and taking 4 castles in 4 days.
The North being Busy with Stannis, and the west being at risk from the Iron Islands, they'll probably join and have good chances to win.

The poll lacks a loyalty to the Night's Watch. I am disappoint. In the absence of the Black Brothers, I declare for House Stark.

True.
That being said,

Jon holds the watch, and is theoretically a Stark bastard. So there you have it.

I strongly support Stannis. The guy's been through so much and he deserves it, even though he's a bit of a...well, you know " "

EDIT: I don't watch the show, only the books. Stannis does seem to be an inspiring leader, to the few that follow him/that he finds worthy. And Stannis isn't really a religious fanatic in any sense, (if I remember correctly) he just uses the Red God's power to benefit his just claim to the throne

I agree with the part of Stannis and religion.
I'm not quite sure I agree with the Inspiring Leader thing

When Stannis tells his men that they'll march to Winterfell, they compare him to Robert. I think if he were really inspiring, they wouldn't.

That being said, from the Westerosi claimants, Stannis is my favorite one too. (Though above that I prefer an Independent King in the North)

[Charellia]

If I think that King Baratheon's bastard son should be the next king, does that mean I root for the Baratheons?

Technically.
Though by Westerosi (Andal, that is) Law, a true brother comes before a bastard (therefore Stannis, and then Renly).
Additionally,

He joins the Brotherhood without Banners.

Which reminds me, the Brotherhood without Banners should also be in the poll.

I am also very pro Gendry. He would make a far better king than any of the other contenders.

His experiences with the Brotherhood would only help him prepare for it.

Not to mention he is a blacksmith which would allow him to forge Lightbringer, either for himself or another king/queen. He will have a major role to play in the end but I don't think that he will end up on the iron throne because we only see him intermittently in the books and his storyline is radically changed in the show.

The Night's Watch isn't going to stop Ramsay. They aren't allowed to interfere in the affairs of the realm. Jon Snow tried to get them to interfere and they mutinied (more over the wildlings but that was part of it). I'm not sure you can really say that Jon is your favourite living character at this point. Various forms of possible resurrection not withstanding he seems pretty dead.

Oh, right. I forgot that chapter. I really wanted them to intervene, and that murder annoyed me, so I must have avoided remembering it.
Though who knows, the Red Woman saved Mance because she valued him, possibly she played the same trick with Jon.
But probably we must say, RIP Jon, your watch has ended. And another person related to Sean Bean goes down the drain.

I wouldn't count Jon out yet. That he is dead, I have no doubt, but that he'll stay dead is unlikely.I don't think Melisandre could have saved Jon the way she saved Mance because we saw the attack through Jon's eyes. But Thoros was able to bring back Beric Dondarion, who was then able to transfer his life to Catelyn. Melisandre is more powerful than Thoros so she could bring Jon back that way. Alternately I think it would be fitting end to Catelyn's story arc if she were to give her life bringing Jon, the child she could never love, back to life. That seems a little less likely though given how far apart they are geographically.

Another alternative is that Jon's consciousness could jump into his direwolf, who happens to be named Ghost, the way Orell did with his bird. I have even heard theories that Jon will come back as some sort of sentient white walker like Coldhands.

I think you're being unfair to Margery (I suspect I'm spelling this wrong). She was basically sold to Renly and then to Joffrey. The show doesn't make it clear, but in the books both marriages were arranged by her father. Yes she does manipulate Joffrey but no more so than Cersei or Tyrion. The fact that she uses his attraction to her to achieve this can't really be held against her as Joffrey is a psychopath against whom she really had no other defense.

Except maybe poison.

Beside this Margery is clearly designed to illustrate the ridiculous double standard in Westeros (compare her actions to Tyrion and see what I mean), which she pretty much states herself in Season 3.

I am aware of what happens in this book involving Margery, but we don't actually know how much of the allegations are true and how much Cercei faked. I also realize that she appears very manipulative, but again we only ever view her through the lens of Cercei's paranoia so its hard to say what is true.

As far as we know, all of it(about Margaery is false. I mean, we know Cersei organized Osfrey's false reports, and that Qyburn tortured people until they "confessed".
So unless we hear of somebody admitting to those crimes, or see them happening from the point of view of a chapter (say a chapter from Margaery's PoV where she mentions her crimes, I think we can safely assume everything to be Cersei's work.

But then again, I might be a bit biased due to being very anti-Cersei or Lannister(except Tyrion).
Also, about that other thing in Season 4/Book 3

I don't quite believe it was her. I think the best bets would be the Viper, poisoning for revenge, which

He'll kinda get. I say kinda, because well, how good is revenge if you die for it..

I suspect that there is some truth to the accusations, although mostly they were Cercei's invention. I don't think it matters that much though. Her "crimes" are really just evidence of how out of control the High Septon is. Incidentally I the High Septon is my least favourite character. He's so bad I actually sympathize with Cercei.

I do think Margery did it. Littlefinger implied that the Tyrells were involved and Margery was sharing the cup. Thus she had both the perfect opportunity and the perfect means of deferring suspicion. I would think anybody having to marry Joffrey would be willing to consider extreme options to get out of it (even Sansa considered killing Joffrey). Even if you don't believe it of her, I expect you could believe it of her grandmother, who would certainly be able to persuade her to do it.
The Red Viper is also a possibility, but I think he is less likely because he never had a clear means or opportunity as the Tyrells did.

[The Jonathanian States]

Technically.
Though by Westerosi (Andal, that is) Law, a true brother comes before a bastard (therefore Stannis, and then Renly).
Additionally,

He joins the Brotherhood without Banners.

Which reminds me, the Brotherhood without Banners should also be in the poll.

I am also very pro Gendry. He would make a far better king than any of the other contenders.

His experiences with the Brotherhood would only help him prepare for it.

Not to mention he is a blacksmith which would allow him to forge Lightbringer, either for himself or another king/queen. He will have a major role to play in the end but I don't think that he will end up on the iron throne because we only see him intermittently in the books and his storyline is radically changed in the show.

Mhm... maybe.
I mean, Lightbringer already has been forged, supposedly.
He does seem to have a way with people,

He does recognize Arya is not Arry, for one.

But I still don't see him either as a Great King or as somebody to actually claim the throne. Though I would see potential for him, if not for the actual ruler. Maybe a future Master of whisperers? Probably not. Maybe a Commander of the Gold Cloaks? I suppose not really.

Oh, right. I forgot that chapter. I really wanted them to intervene, and that murder annoyed me, so I must have avoided remembering it.
Though who knows, the Red Woman saved Mance because she valued him, possibly she played the same trick with Jon.
But probably we must say, RIP Jon, your watch has ended. And another person related to Sean Bean goes down the drain.

I wouldn't count Jon out yet. That he is dead, I have no doubt, but that he'll stay dead is unlikely.I don't think Melisandre could have saved Jon the way she saved Mance because we saw the attack through Jon's eyes. But Thoros was able to bring back Beric Dondarion, who was then able to transfer his life to Catelyn. Melisandre is more powerful than Thoros so she could bring Jon back that way. Alternately I think it would be fitting end to Catelyn's story arc if she were to give her life bringing Jon, the child she could never love, back to life. That seems a little less likely though given how far apart they are geographically.

Another alternative is that Jon's consciousness could jump into his direwolf, who happens to be named Ghost, the way Orell did with his bird. I have even heard theories that Jon will come back as some sort of sentient white walker like Coldhands.

That's actually a really interesting thought.
It definitely should be possible, at least in theory.
Additionally,[spoiler=All over the books, so let's say Dance with Dragons]
Since she does cooperate with him, to some extent, and does try to gain his favor (first by announcing the Karstark girl, later by sending Mance to get "Arya"), I actually wouldn't set it past her to not do that.
Especially considering he'd then be quite grateful, owe her, and possibly even a believer in R'hllor.[/spoiler]
Otherwise,

It would be a really nice end for Catelyn to give her regained live to the son she promised to love, but never did, instead of continuing an eternal life of revenge and pain.

And last option,

Mm.... thinking of that, possibly that(him becoming the Ghost) would prevent any life-giving attempt be it by Melisandre or Catelyn.
The idea of him becoming a sentient WW? Doubt that, as we have no example, no basis for that. I mean, Coldhands can't enter the wall. So he probably died/turned-dead beyond the wall.

As far as we know, all of it(about Margaery is false. I mean, we know Cersei organized Osfrey's false reports, and that Qyburn tortured people until they "confessed".
So unless we hear of somebody admitting to those crimes, or see them happening from the point of view of a chapter (say a chapter from Margaery's PoV where she mentions her crimes, I think we can safely assume everything to be Cersei's work.

But then again, I might be a bit biased due to being very anti-Cersei or Lannister(except Tyrion).
Also, about that other thing in Season 4/Book 3

I don't quite believe it was her. I think the best bets would be the Viper, poisoning for revenge, which

He'll kinda get. I say kinda, because well, how good is revenge if you die for it..

I suspect that there is some truth to the accusations, although mostly they were Cercei's invention. I don't think it matters that much though. Her "crimes" are really just evidence of how out of control the High Septon is. Incidentally I the High Septon is my least favourite character. He's so bad I actually sympathize with Cercei.

I do think Margery did it. Littlefinger implied that the Tyrells were involved and Margery was sharing the cup. Thus she had both the perfect opportunity and the perfect means of deferring suspicion. I would think anybody having to marry Joffrey would be willing to consider extreme options to get out of it (even Sansa considered killing Joffrey). Even if you don't believe it of her, I expect you could believe it of her grandmother, who would certainly be able to persuade her to do it.
The Red Viper is also a possibility, but I think he is less likely because he never had a clear means or opportunity as the Tyrells did.

I suppose that there is the possibility, as IIRC we do not know whether or not Maester Pycelle speaks truth or not.
And yes, I agree with you in that I don't think it matters that much. And yes, the High Septon is definitely out of control, as Cersei without even thinking for a f*cking moment gave him the unrestricted power of armies.
Though I disagree with your thoughts about Cersei/him.
A) Him not immediately crowning Tommen does make sense, as IIRC his complaints were those published by Stannis/Ned which are, as we know, true.
B) He gave Cersei a valid offer, which was actually with a really high price, though she was stupid enough to agree.
So that's about him.
About Cersei
A) She generally hasn't gained my favor, so I'll start this with saying that I'm openly biased against her.
B) She f*cking granted him that power, and that asked Kevan and Jaime to bust her out, when many would die in that onslaught, heck even they might, as possibly the soldiers or people might revolt and join/support the Faith Militant against those who attack it.
More importantly, C) She pushed Margeary into a cell there, she really has no right to complain about landing in one herself.
And additionally, D) She sent somebody to say he slept with Queen Margeary, after she (Queen Cersei) slept with him. As she should have a rough idea of how her faith/the septons work, she should've expected him to be punished/tortured and therefore to reveal her actions.

I rest my case.

Mhm.... maybe.
But had she really wanted to kill him, I think there were better moments to do so.
That being said IIRC Cersei, or somebody else, did find an ancient coin from the Reach in the cell of the Chief Gaoler after Tyrion ran loose......
and it was Olenna did mentioned (to Sansa and Margeary it was, I think) that she carries a chest of those to trick merchants and stuff.
I do put the Viper above them, as he uses poison (and will actually do so later), has poison(which we know as A) He's Dornish and B) uses some later, and has a clear motive, which is revenge.

Cases led to rest, maybe we'll be able to close them someday.

Also, what are your opinions about

J'aqhen Haqar (Or whoever these bloody braavosi write their names) and the order of the Faceless men?

Or about

The House of Black and White, as well as what Arya does there?

Or about what seems to be the connection of the latter serving as the training for the former.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Added in the Nights watch. I dont know whether to keep it as "The crow of the Nights watch" or change it to something like "The sword that guards the realms of men" or something from their oath.

What would be best?

edit: Also there is a max on 10 poll options, so i cant add in the brother hood or anyone else, sorry. Thats why i had it as other originally.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I disagree. I thought Stannis was really well cast. He's plain and unremarkable looking to the point that if you saw him next to Davos and didn't know their relationship you would assume Davos was the king. I think that's a great way of showing how uninspiring a leader he is.

I honestly haven't watched much of him yet, but I'll have a go at it nevertheless: You're absolutely correct. Stannis doesn't look kingly at all and that's part of the problem. He looks like a common noble. Every character in the series who has a claim to influence gives off the aura of their power. Ned Stark. Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin and even Joffrey. Petyr Baelish. And so many more. I was actually impressed by Melisandre. She's the first person in the series so far that's actually exceeded my impression of her after first reading the books. But Stannis . . . he falls flat. When I was reading of him, I got the impression that he exuded a very raw power. He may not be loved by his subjects, but I got the distinct impression that he had the aura of command. I think the main issue is just that the GoT casters make a bad choice of actor. They didn't even choose someone who matches Stannis's basic appearance:

Like his brothers, Robert and Renly, Stannis is a large man - tall, broad shouldered and sinewy. While he is not described as being particularly unattractive, he is also not considered as handsome as Renly or Robert was in his youth. Stannis has dark blue eyes. His head has only a fringe of black hair "like the shadow of a crown," and a close-cropped beard across his large jaw. His face has a tightness to it like cured leather, and he has hollow cheeks. He has thin, pale lips.

I agree that Dillane does not look like Stannis from the books, but i like his portrayal, i think he does him really well. In my eyes he captures the different sides of the character perfectly, the just and honourable side and also the side that takes risks that go against his moral code, though i will admit, there are some scenes which made me go... eh

For example:

that scene on the beach with Melisandre, that was not Stannis plain and simple, i did not like it. But at the same time, the scene with his daughter i thought was absolutely perfect and showed you another side of him and how distant he is from his family, for good reason, his wife is a fucking psycho. Also the confrontation with Renly in Season 2 and the initial scene where he declares his intent for the throne i though were great as well.

I also liked his scenes with Davos in that season, especially in the dungeon where he debates the importance of the sacrifice of gendry and how one life should outweigh the lives of an entire kingdom and about the vision he saw in the flames and how it looks like he might actually believe in the lord of light now

Also the man is a badass, especially in the blackwater episode of season 2, i liked the change they made for him from a "From the rear" leader in the books to a "from the front" kind of leader. Shows you that even though he has few allies and supporters, you can see why he has the ones he has. He inspires loyalty and courage from his men and fights alongside them, and his refusal to retreat when his men are caught by the Tyrells and Lannister cavalry. And how he has to be dragged away by his men like he was in the books.

Edit: Though one of the main issues i think he has, is that he does not get enough screen time like some of the other characters do and i think it makes some people forget about him and makes him less important. I get it partially in season 3 because he lost the battle at kings landing and most of his forces are either dead or were forced to surrender after the battle so he is kind of beaten down at that stage but i think they could have done more with him.

[Charellia]

I suppose that there is the possibility, as IIRC we do not know whether or not Maester Pycelle speaks truth or not.
And yes, I agree with you in that I don't think it matters that much. And yes, the High Septon is definitely out of control, as Cersei without even thinking for a f*cking moment gave him the unrestricted power of armies.
Though I disagree with your thoughts about Cersei/him.
A) Him not immediately crowning Tommen does make sense, as IIRC his complaints were those published by Stannis/Ned which are, as we know, true.
B) He gave Cersei a valid offer, which was actually with a really high price, though she was stupid enough to agree.
So that's about him.
About Cersei
A) She generally hasn't gained my favor, so I'll start this with saying that I'm openly biased against her.
B) She f*cking granted him that power, and that asked Kevan and Jaime to bust her out, when many would die in that onslaught, heck even they might, as possibly the soldiers or people might revolt and join/support the Faith Militant against those who attack it.
More importantly, C) She pushed Margeary into a cell there, she really has no right to complain about landing in one herself.
And additionally, D) She sent somebody to say he slept with Queen Margeary, after she (Queen Cersei) slept with him. As she should have a rough idea of how her faith/the septons work, she should've expected him to be punished/tortured and therefore to reveal her actions.

I rest my case.

Make no mistake, I do hate Cercei, I just hate him more. Cercei is like Joffrey. The audience loves to hate her. He on the other hand is just contemptible.

Mhm.... maybe.
But had she really wanted to kill him, I think there were better moments to do so.
That being said IIRC Cersei, or somebody else, did find an ancient coin from the Reach in the cell of the Chief Gaoler after Tyrion ran loose......
and it was Olenna did mentioned (to Sansa and Margeary it was, I think) that she carries a chest of those to trick merchants and stuff.
I do put the Viper above them, as he uses poison (and will actually do so later), has poison(which we know as A) He's Dornish and B) uses some later, and has a clear motive, which is revenge.

Cases led to rest, maybe we'll be able to close them someday.

I'm sure we'll find out someday. Personally I think it would be kind of a let down if it was a character who is already dead, but with GRRM you never know.

Actually, given all hints about them the Tyrells seem a little too obvious, but I still suspect them.

Also, what are your opinions about

J'aqhen Haqar (Or whoever these bloody braavosi write their names) and the order of the Faceless men?

Or about

The House of Black and White, as well as what Arya does there?

Or about what seems to be the connection of the latter serving as the training for the former.

I really have no idea what is going on with that. I have seen theories that J'aqhen H'gar (or however it's spelled) is Syrio Forell, which sort of makes sense since they're both Braavosi and both interested in helping Arya. I think in the show Syrio references the Many Faced God as well. Another theory I've heard (and this one is very likely) is that he is now at the Citadel impersonating Pate. I'm not sure why,but Sam will probably figure it out.
I really have no idea what is going on with the House of Black and White or the Faceless Men. All they seem to do is kill things for unclear religious reasons and probably make a lot of money off it given how expensive Faceless Men are to hire. I'm not sure if there's something more going on, or where Arya's story is going, but I don't think she's going to stay with them too much longer.
On that topic do you have any idea how Arya managed to kill a man with a gold coin?

[The Jonathanian States]

Added in the Nights watch. I dont know whether to keep it as "The crow of the Nights watch" or change it to something like "The sword that guards the realms of men" or something from their oath.

What would be best?

edit: Also there is a max on 10 poll options, so i cant add in the brother hood or anyone else, sorry. Thats why i had it as other originally.

Ah, I see.
Well, the crow is only how they're called by the free people, so I do not know.
Maybe change the last option into Black Brothers of the Night's Watch and Free Folk from beyond the Wall?
Or only to the Black Brothers of the Night's Watch?
Or really something from their Oath, I liked that idea.

I honestly haven't watched much of him yet, but I'll have a go at it nevertheless: You're absolutely correct. Stannis doesn't look kingly at all and that's part of the problem. He looks like a common noble. Every character in the series who has a claim to influence gives off the aura of their power. Ned Stark. Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin and even Joffrey. Petyr Baelish. And so many more. I was actually impressed by Melisandre. She's the first person in the series so far that's actually exceeded my impression of her after first reading the books. But Stannis . . . he falls flat. When I was reading of him, I got the impression that he exuded a very raw power. He may not be loved by his subjects, but I got the distinct impression that he had the aura of command. I think the main issue is just that the GoT casters make a bad choice of actor. They didn't even choose someone who matches Stannis's basic appearance:

I agree that Dillane does not look like Stannis from the books, but i like his portrayal, i think he does him really well. In my eyes he captures the different sides of the character perfectly, the just and honourable side and also the side that takes risks that go against his moral code, though i will admit, there are some scenes which made me go... eh

For example:

that scene on the beach with Melisandre, that was not Stannis plain and simple, i did not like it. But at the same time, the scene with his daughter i thought was absolutely perfect and showed you another side of him and how distant he is from his family, for good reason, his wife is a fucking psycho. Also the confrontation with Renly in Season 2 and the initial scene where he declares his intent for the throne i though were great as well.

I also liked his scenes with Davos in that season, especially in the dungeon where he debates the importance of the sacrifice of gendry and how one life should outweigh the lives of an entire kingdom and about the vision he saw in the flames and how it looks like he might actually believe in the lord of light now

Also the man is a badass, especially in the blackwater episode of season 2, i liked the change they made for him from a "From the rear" leader in the books to a "from the front" kind of leader. Shows you that even though he has few allies and supporters, you can see why he has the ones he has. He inspires loyalty and courage from his men and fights alongside them, and his refusal to retreat when his men are caught by the Tyrells and Lannister cavalry. And how he has to be dragged away by his men like he was in the books.

Edit: Though one of the main issues i think he has, is that he does not get enough screen time like some of the other characters do and i think it makes some people forget about him and makes him less important. I get it partially in season 3 because he lost the battle at kings landing and most of his forces are either dead or were forced to surrender after the battle so he is kind of beaten down at that stage but i think they could have done more with him.

Yeah, I agree in general.
I may be slightly biased towards the show due to having first watched the three seasons, and then started reading the books, but I think Stannis was okay. Of course there were better positions, I found Peter Dinklage as Tyrion really great, and Jack Gleeson managed to make the crowds roar, but Stephen Dillane as Stannis was well.... ok. Not the ultimate fit, but also not really bad.

I suppose that there is the possibility, as IIRC we do not know whether or not Maester Pycelle speaks truth or not.
And yes, I agree with you in that I don't think it matters that much. And yes, the High Septon is definitely out of control, as Cersei without even thinking for a f*cking moment gave him the unrestricted power of armies.
Though I disagree with your thoughts about Cersei/him.
A) Him not immediately crowning Tommen does make sense, as IIRC his complaints were those published by Stannis/Ned which are, as we know, true.
B) He gave Cersei a valid offer, which was actually with a really high price, though she was stupid enough to agree.
So that's about him.
About Cersei
A) She generally hasn't gained my favor, so I'll start this with saying that I'm openly biased against her.
B) She f*cking granted him that power, and that asked Kevan and Jaime to bust her out, when many would die in that onslaught, heck even they might, as possibly the soldiers or people might revolt and join/support the Faith Militant against those who attack it.
More importantly, C) She pushed Margeary into a cell there, she really has no right to complain about landing in one herself.
And additionally, D) She sent somebody to say he slept with Queen Margeary, after she (Queen Cersei) slept with him. As she should have a rough idea of how her faith/the septons work, she should've expected him to be punished/tortured and therefore to reveal her actions.

I rest my case.

Make no mistake, I do hate Cercei, I just hate him more. Cercei is like Joffrey. The audience loves to hate her. He on the other hand is just contemptible.

Oh, I got that.
But, as said, I disagree. He's the High Septon, the things he's doing is the thing's he's chosen for.

He might be taking it to the extreme, but that's because he has been effectively been guaranteed full freedom from the Crown due to recreating two freaking Military Orders and having that mass of Sparrows which kinda support him. But I definitely wouldn't hate him, or even if I do/would, far less than any non-Tyrion Lannister.

Mhm.... maybe.
But had she really wanted to kill him, I think there were better moments to do so.
That being said IIRC Cersei, or somebody else, did find an ancient coin from the Reach in the cell of the Chief Gaoler after Tyrion ran loose......
and it was Olenna did mentioned (to Sansa and Margeary it was, I think) that she carries a chest of those to trick merchants and stuff.
I do put the Viper above them, as he uses poison (and will actually do so later), has poison(which we know as A) He's Dornish and B) uses some later, and has a clear motive, which is revenge.

Cases led to rest, maybe we'll be able to close them someday.

I'm sure we'll find out someday. Personally I think it would be kind of a let down if it was a character who is already dead, but with GRRM you never know.

Actually, given all hints about them the Tyrells seem a little too obvious, but I still suspect them.

True, which lights up some hopes.

Oh, true.... that definitely is a good point. Considering how surprising the things and actions are, it can't be anybody who is obvious to have been it.

Which would lead us to Bealish, who once said something along the lines of having to always do the unexpected things, so that your enemy doesn't see them coming.
And considering his plans for Sansa, who knows.... he did betray Stark to solidify his position, he might as well poison somebody or arrange a death.

Also, what are your opinions about

J'aqhen Haqar (Or whoever these bloody braavosi write their names) and the order of the Faceless men?

Or about

The House of Black and White, as well as what Arya does there?

Or about what seems to be the connection of the latter serving as the training for the former.

I really have no idea what is going on with that. I have seen theories that J'aqhen H'gar (or however it's spelled) is Syrio Forell, which sort of makes sense since they're both Braavosi and both interested in helping Arya. I think in the show Syrio references the Many Faced God as well. Another theory I've heard (and this one is very likely) is that he is now at the Citadel impersonating Pate. I'm not sure why,but Sam will probably figure it out.
I really have no idea what is going on with the House of Black and White or the Faceless Men. All they seem to do is kill things for unclear religious reasons and probably make a lot of money off it given how expensive Faceless Men are to hire. I'm not sure if there's something more going on, or where Arya's story is going, but I don't think she's going to stay with them too much longer.
On that topic do you have any idea how Arya managed to kill a man with a gold coin?

I really can't see how J'aqen is Syrio. I mean, Syrio must have died when the Lannister Men-at-Arms and the Kingsguard attacked him while he had only a wooden sword. I mean, with all due respect to the First Swords of the Sealords of Braavos, he cannot have survived that.
Additionally, J'aqen did not per-se wanted to help her. First he had a debt to his good to pay (three lives saved from fire means that three other lives must be taken, this way or the other, to repay). She having saved the three men, would be the one to order the killing of the other three. And then she threatened him by calling him as third name, which is why he helped her escape.
Also, honestly, I don't quite remember Pate and Sam's chapter or two in Oldtown.
From what I see, the House of Black and white seems to serve as a kind of Supply and Training base for the Faceless men. I mean, in his stories one of the priests tells Arya the beginnings of the Religion. Which were the murdering of people (that thing which the Faceless men do. Coincidence? I think not). (Now I'll use forces even though she always could quit the House, but he does force her to do so if she wants to stay):
Then he forces her to be able to watch dead people, and touch them. He forces her to be able to detect lies, and to be able to listen to conversations, passing by. He forces her to be able to observe. Then he takes her eyesight, and forces her to be able to handle the world and even fight, blindly. He once mentions taking away her hearing too, someday, which I assume is so she would learn lip-reading, amongst others. She also learned pickpocketing and the usage of a small hidden blade (which totally reminds me of Assassins Creed). He tells her to identify a man based on a very basic description, and then to kill him. So she watches that man, observes how he is protected and what his habits are, and then kills him. Additionally, he gives her a different face, and while he does, we know that (almost) every face that existed (and possibly will exist) is stored by them in the House of Black and White.

Additionally, due to how the other priests act (for example when removing her face) we know she is not unique in that.

Therefore, I say that the House of Black and White (HBW) is the Academy of Faceless Men (AFM), and that they are training Arya to become one.
Seeing as she isn't stupid, she probably knows that too. And as she still repeats her list, we probably can also make a safe assumption as to why.

I rest my case.

[Chestaan]

the two characters i dislike the most are Cersei Lannister and Margery Tyrell. Cersei is like a Margaret Thatcher on super steroids in terms of level of ruthlessness (the only character who is worse that I have ever seen is Claire Underwood from House of Cards)...

Margery is too manipulative and too much of a slut. I know people say she does what she does to survive or for a greater good etc but I don't like women who use their sexuality to get ahead, i just can't stand such characters...

I haven't seen all of the tv show, but I think that Margery is portrayed in quite a different light than how she is to the book.

That moment where Cersei sends a messenger begging Jaime to help and he basically tells her to fuck off, absolutely epic!

[The Jonathanian States]

the two characters i dislike the most are Cersei Lannister and Margery Tyrell. Cersei is like a Margaret Thatcher on super steroids in terms of level of ruthlessness (the only character who is worse that I have ever seen is Claire Underwood from House of Cards)...

Margery is too manipulative and too much of a slut. I know people say she does what she does to survive or for a greater good etc but I don't like women who use their sexuality to get ahead, i just can't stand such characters...

I haven't seen all of the tv show, but I think that Margery is portrayed in quite a different light than how she is to the book.

That moment where Cersei sends a messenger begging Jaime to help and he basically tells her to fuck off, absolutely epic!

IIRC he doesn't tell her anything, but simply burns the letter when he gets it.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I haven't seen all of the tv show, but I think that Margery is portrayed in quite a different light than how she is to the book.

That moment where Cersei sends a messenger begging Jaime to help and he basically tells her to fuck off, absolutely epic!

IIRC he doesn't tell her anything, but simply burns the letter when he gets it.

Still an awesome moment non the less.

[The Jonathanian States]

IIRC he doesn't tell her anything, but simply burns the letter when he gets it.

Still an awesome moment non the less.

Yep, definitely was.

Who Plays CK2 with the mod?

[The Huskar Social Union]

Still an awesome moment non the less.

Yep, definitely was.

Who Plays CK2 with the mod?

Me. Had a game with a custom northern house called Lockhart controlling last hearth from the Invasion start date. About 100 years later last time i played, should get back to it. Though my bloody sigil keeps changing between different yellow and green ones, it was originally a black stag on a white field.