ASoIAF/Game of Thrones general Discussion Thread

[Charellia]

If they still go down that route, it could totally still make sense if he finds her in his father's bed.

Shae v Tyrion:

bk-Tyrion kills Tywin, this makes sense; then he kills Shae which makes no sense; it breaks his character.
tv-Tyrion: Shae testifies versus Tyrion. With this betrayal, Tyrion killing Shae makes sense.

Sure, we, the Audience know that Cersei tortured Shae to make her confess. Tyrion should have spotted that.

Shae testified against Tyrion in the book too. I have never seen any evidence that she was tortured or even necessarily coerced.

[Chestaan]

If they still go down that route, it could totally still make sense if he finds her in his father's bed.

Shae v Tyrion:

bk-Tyrion kills Tywin, this makes sense; then he kills Shae which makes no sense; it breaks his character.
tv-Tyrion: Shae testifies versus Tyrion. With this betrayal, Tyrion killing Shae makes sense.

Sure, we, the Audience know that Cersei tortured Shae to make her confess. Tyrion should have spotted that.

Tyrion killed Shae more because she claimed to love him yet she was quite happy to shag Tywin. Basically Tyrion realises that she was playing him all the time.

[Bralia]

I just realized that the show hasn't been fully sexploited as well as it should be. The women of Qarth wear clothing that leaves one breast exposed. Come on, showrunners, get your heads in the game here. The show needs more boob.

[Charellia]

I wonder what goes through a writers head when they decide to change one of the most memorable lines in the series. Do they think that we've forgotten who Catelyn was/is already? Do they really need to change Littlefinger's line from "Only Cat" to "Only your sister?"

[Old Tyrannia]

The Baratheons have the best sigil, both the normal and the Mannis version. But the Bolton's and Martell's are boss too.

I have to confess, I like the Lannisters' sigil. I like the Starks', too. As far as the minor houses' sigils go, House Blackwood, House Whent and House Lynderly have pretty cool sigils- ravens, bats and snakes FTW.

House Reyne of Castamere had a red lion rampant as their sigil, which is quite amusing when you consider Tywin Lannister is supposedly based on King Edward I "Hammer of the Scots" Plantagenet, and the Lannisters' sigil- like the arms of Plantagenet- has a golden lion... Although the Plantagenets had three lions on their arms, rather than one.

And a coat of gold or a coat of red,
A lion still has claws.
And mine are long and sharp my lord,
As long and sharp as yours.

And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
That Lord of Castamere;
And now the rains weep o'er his hall,
With no one there to hear.

[Zaereas]

HOLY SHIT, EPISODE 7

[Islamic republiq of Julundar]

Shae v Tyrion:

bk-Tyrion kills Tywin, this makes sense; then he kills Shae which makes no sense; it breaks his character.
tv-Tyrion: Shae testifies versus Tyrion. With this betrayal, Tyrion killing Shae makes sense.

Sure, we, the Audience know that Cersei tortured Shae to make her confess. Tyrion should have spotted that.

Shae testified against Tyrion in the book too. I have never seen any evidence that she was tortured or even necessarily coerced.

Cersei was in charge. THAT is the evidence that what I said happened.

ep 4.07 Mockingbird

Sansa v Littlefinger
I was going to wonder why, after all the changes tv v bk, this scene is exactly the same, but I got ninja'ed.

I wonder what goes through a writers head when they decide to change one of the most memorable lines in the series. Do they think that we've forgotten who Catelyn was/is already? Do they really need to change Littlefinger's line from "Only Cat" to "Only your sister?"

It ain't a spoiler to say that the Arya scenes were awesome.

Shireen Baratheon, last of her Name. tv versus bk

Stannis goes North to protect the Wall: bk Stannis leaves Shireen behind; tv Melisandre brings Shireen along. I like Shireen, she is insightful, cute and genre savvy http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenreSavvy More Shireen scenes is a good thing, but the kicker is Melisandre says "She will be Useful."

bk-Shireen is a minor character and might survive. tv-Shireen is a beloved character in a GRR Martin story and will die.

Jorah the Andal
Mormont's Castle is Bear Island in the Northlands. I thought Mormonts were First Men. Maybe Essosi call ALL Westerosi "Andals" same as Foreigners call ALL Brits "English"

[Zentrut]

Shae testified against Tyrion in the book too. I have never seen any evidence that she was tortured or even necessarily coerced.

Cersei was in charge. THAT is the evidence that what I said happened.

ep 4.07 Mockingbird

Sansa v Littlefinger
I was going to wonder why, after all the changes tv v bk, this scene is exactly the same, but I got ninja'ed.

I wonder what goes through a writers head when they decide to change one of the most memorable lines in the series. Do they think that we've forgotten who Catelyn was/is already? Do they really need to change Littlefinger's line from "Only Cat" to "Only your sister?"

It ain't a spoiler to say that the Arya scenes were awesome.

Shireen Baratheon, last of her Name. tv versus bk

Stannis goes North to protect the Wall: bk Stannis leaves Shireen behind; tv Melisandre brings Shireen along. I like Shireen, she is insightful, cute and genre savvy http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenreSavvy More Shireen scenes is a good thing, but the kicker is Melisandre says "She will be Useful."

bk-Shireen is a minor character and might survive. tv-Shireen is a beloved character in a GRR Martin story and will die.

Jorah the Andal
Mormont's Castle is Bear Island in the Northlands. I thought Mormonts were First Men. Maybe Essosi call ALL Westerosi "Andals" same as Foreigners call ALL Brits "English"

You're right about Jorah, never noticed that. And who calls all British people "English"?

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

Shae testified against Tyrion in the book too. I have never seen any evidence that she was tortured or even necessarily coerced.

Cersei was in charge. THAT is the evidence that what I said happened.

ep 4.07 Mockingbird

Sansa v Littlefinger
I was going to wonder why, after all the changes tv v bk, this scene is exactly the same, but I got ninja'ed.

I wonder what goes through a writers head when they decide to change one of the most memorable lines in the series. Do they think that we've forgotten who Catelyn was/is already? Do they really need to change Littlefinger's line from "Only Cat" to "Only your sister?"

It ain't a spoiler to say that the Arya scenes were awesome.

Shireen Baratheon, last of her Name. tv versus bk

Stannis goes North to protect the Wall: bk Stannis leaves Shireen behind; tv Melisandre brings Shireen along. I like Shireen, she is insightful, cute and genre savvy http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenreSavvy More Shireen scenes is a good thing, but the kicker is Melisandre says "She will be Useful."

bk-Shireen is a minor character and might survive. tv-Shireen is a beloved character in a GRR Martin story and will die.

Jorah the Andal
Mormont's Castle is Bear Island in the Northlands. I thought Mormonts were First Men. Maybe Essosi call ALL Westerosi "Andals" same as Foreigners call ALL Brits "English"

How many times do I have to tell people that luked=/= death.

[Islamic republiq of Julundar]

Cersei was in charge. THAT is the evidence that what I said happened.

ep 4.07 Mockingbird

Sansa v Littlefinger
I was going to wonder why, after all the changes tv v bk, this scene is exactly the same, but I got ninja'ed.

It ain't a spoiler to say that the Arya scenes were awesome.

Shireen Baratheon, last of her Name. tv versus bk

Stannis goes North to protect the Wall: bk Stannis leaves Shireen behind; tv Melisandre brings Shireen along. I like Shireen, she is insightful, cute and genre savvy http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenreSavvy More Shireen scenes is a good thing, but the kicker is Melisandre says "She will be Useful."

bk-Shireen is a minor character and might survive. tv-Shireen is a beloved character in a GRR Martin story and will die.

Jorah the Andal
Mormont's Castle is Bear Island in the Northlands. I thought Mormonts were First Men. Maybe Essosi call ALL Westerosi "Andals" same as Foreigners call ALL Brits "English"

How many times do I have to tell people that luked=/= death.

I assume you mean liked=/= death. We are debating ep 4.07, therefore, for the rest of the Season, you will have to tell us 3 times. For Season 5, you will have to tell us 13 times; for Season 6, you will have to tell us 23 times.

[Charellia]

Shae testified against Tyrion in the book too. I have never seen any evidence that she was tortured or even necessarily coerced.

Cersei was in charge. THAT is the evidence that what I said happened.

That is insufficient evidence. It is possible, and strongly implied, that Cercei bribed her.

[Islamic republiq of Julundar]

I wouldn't bother. Since Robb isn't Stannis or Tywin "I'm only good at being intimidating" Lannister, you know he's not going to cut him or any other character with objectively more importance to the story any slack or give them any credit whatsoever. Ah well. I guess he can sit with his fingers in his ears and and keep arguing whenever the story inevitably goes in a direction opposed to all he supports.

The only differences between Robb and Stannis are personality and experience. Given aging, I could see Robb growing up to be a bit of a better tempered Stannis Baratheon.

Huge difference: Stannis burns people: Robb Ned's son nevah commits attrocities.

Robb executes Karstark for murdering POWs in full knowledge that this will lose him half his army. Ned's son is THAT committed to Honour.

[The Jonathanian States]

The only differences between Robb and Stannis are personality and experience. Given aging, I could see Robb growing up to be a bit of a better tempered Stannis Baratheon.

Huge difference: Stannis burns people: Robb Ned's son nevah commits attrocities.

Robb executes Karstark for murdering POWs in full knowledge that this will lose him half his army. Ned's son is THAT committed to Honour.

Of course. I mean, his family is, *puts on glasses* High as Honor.

[The Treorai]

Huge difference: Stannis burns people: Robb Ned's son nevah commits attrocities.

Robb executes Karstark for murdering POWs in full knowledge that this will lose him half his army. Ned's son is THAT committed to Honour.

Of course. I mean, his family is, *puts on glasses* High as Honor.

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Zentrut]

The only differences between Robb and Stannis are personality and experience. Given aging, I could see Robb growing up to be a bit of a better tempered Stannis Baratheon.

Huge difference: Stannis burns people: Robb Ned's son nevah commits attrocities.

Robb executes Karstark for murdering POWs in full knowledge that this will lose him half his army. Ned's son is THAT committed to Honour.

Don't persecute Stannis because of his "religious beliefs". Even though he doesn't believe and only does it because he knows the magic is sometimes legit.

[Corrian]

Reading this thread a while back made me want to do the two RP's I created that are heavily influenced by Game of Thrones, and a lot of names, places, and concepts are taken from Game of Thrones (It's an RP, it can get away with it). One is with my sister, my friend, and I, and another is just with me and my sister. One actually IS a Game of Thrones RP, based in the same world, but with different characters ruling the houses so we can make a completely different story. Attempted one with the same story before and decided to ditch it pretty quick. The 2nd one is entirely our own creation. The houses, characters, the world, everything. Though again, general concept is inspired by Game of Thrones, and names and appearances are taken from Game of Thrones.

I honestly think that Game of Thrones has helped me in multiple ways. One being that it helps me be a better roleplayer (Though I still considering myself to be average overall), even if only in storytelling aspects. It's helped me with more complex story ideas in my mind (At least I hope), and has helped me make more "real" characters and better characters overall I would say. Less...Samey characters. Though there's still definitely some of that when I run out of ideas.

The other thing is that Game of Thrones has helped me see what I really want out of entertainment, in all ways. I've always preferred more unique forms of entertainment, in anything. Music, video games, movies, shows, books, whatever. Or well done concepts. But it's really got me thinking about what I really want out of entertainment. Which is much more complex storytelling, and complex characters that aren't just one dimensional "Good guys" or "bad guys". Which is what I have started to try and portray as much as possible in my own RP characters, as well, though there are only a few characters I REALLY focus on that aspect with. Overall I just try and challenge myself as much as possible with a variety of characters (Though I suck with doing a wide range of dialogue). And that has been quite lacking in most movies and shows both lately, which is why I am so critical of so many things I watch, or don't watch because it looks so bland. Same deal with any form of entertainment. I'm very critical of any form of entertainment, and the blandness all over all the different industries, and I always want to find the most interesting forms of entertainment in everything that I can.

[Socialist Czechia]

Huge difference: Stannis burns people: Robb Ned's son nevah commits attrocities.

Robb executes Karstark for murdering POWs in full knowledge that this will lose him half his army. Ned's son is THAT committed to Honour.

Don't persecute Stannis because of his "religious beliefs". Even though he doesn't believe and only does it because he knows the magic is sometimes legit.

Strange that there wasn't many religious war. RL medieval Europe was literally almost exclusively about it. crusades, catharists, templars, inquisition, hussites and finally, thirty years war.
I would expect Faith of the Seven's constant attacks on 'pagan' North and Iron Islands, never be fine with it, as much as crusades against unholy Free cities

'Peasant wars' were also quite usual, happening from time to time, but Westerosi smallfolk looks surprisingly content with their nobility.

[Old Tyrannia]

Huge difference: Stannis burns people: Robb Ned's son nevah commits attrocities.

Robb executes Karstark for murdering POWs in full knowledge that this will lose him half his army. Ned's son is THAT committed to Honour.

Of course. I mean, his family is, *puts on glasses* High as Honor.

That's House Arryn's words. House Stark's words are Winter Is Coming.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Of course. I mean, his family is, *puts on glasses* High as Honor.

That's House Arryn's words. House Stark's words are Winter Is Coming.

He was basing that line on the fact that the Starks are one of the most honourable houses in the realm. So he used House Arryn's words for the joke.

[Orcoa]

So anybody here tried the Game of Thrones RPG by Green Ronin?

And if they have, what do you think of it?

[The Jonathanian States]

Of course. I mean, his family is, *puts on glasses* High as Honor.

That's House Arryn's words. House Stark's words are Winter Is Coming.

A) It's a joke. I was playing on the Starks being the most honorable of houses, and on B.
B) I was talking of (his) family. His mother is his family. His mother's sister therefore also is his family, being his aunt. Little Lord Arryn therefore is his cousin, and to some extent blood-related, while being his family. What are the Arryns' words? Exactly.

That's House Arryn's words. House Stark's words are Winter Is Coming.

He was basing that line on the fact that the Starks are one of the most honourable houses in the realm. So he used House Arryn's words for the joke.

Yep.

Of course. I mean, his family is, *puts on glasses* High as Honor.

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

And at the end of the last book, the lord Arryn learned that *glasses* Winter is coming.

[Mormak]

The only differences between Robb and Stannis are personality and experience. Given aging, I could see Robb growing up to be a bit of a better tempered Stannis Baratheon.

Huge difference: Stannis burns people: Robb Ned's son nevah commits attrocities.

Robb executes Karstark for murdering POWs in full knowledge that this will lose him half his army. Ned's son is THAT committed to Honour.

That isn't honor.

Is gross incompetence, stupidity and perhaps signs of mental illness.

[The Treorai]

Huge difference: Stannis burns people: Robb Ned's son nevah commits attrocities.

Robb executes Karstark for murdering POWs in full knowledge that this will lose him half his army. Ned's son is THAT committed to Honour.

That isn't honor.

Is gross incompetence, stupidity and perhaps signs of mental illness.

Honor:
Adherence to what is right or to a conventional standard of conduct.
"I must as a matter of honor avoid any taint of dishonesty."

Sounds exactly like executing a man for killing defensless prisoners. He is upholding the moral, or honorable way of doing something.

Incompetence:
Inability to do something successfully; ineptitude.
"Allegations of professional incompetence"

If he were incompetent, he would have done one of the following:
A. Failed at keeping the north together, especially the Greatjon.
B. Not been a highly successful military leader.
C. Not have successfully struck a deal with the Freys of the Crossing.
D. Missed Lord Karstark's head on the block.
Same goes for stupidity. Perhaps you could make an argument for shortsightedness, but otherwise your are completely off base.

As to your allegations of mental illness, I am somewhat familiar with the subject (I took college course on, and currently own a dictionary of Psychology), and nothing in Robb Stark's character suggests any symptoms of mental illness. So, yeah. You might be reaching a little far with your lack of reading comprehension.

[Mormak]

That isn't honor.

Is gross incompetence, stupidity and perhaps signs of mental illness.

Honor:
Adherence to what is right or to a conventional standard of conduct.
"I must as a matter of honor avoid any taint of dishonesty."

Sounds exactly like executing a man for killing defensless prisoners. He is upholding the moral, or honorable way of doing something.

Incompetence:
Inability to do something successfully; ineptitude.
"Allegations of professional incompetence"

If he were incompetent, he would have done one of the following:
A. Failed at keeping the north together, especially the Greatjon.
B. Not been a highly successful military leader.
C. Not have successfully struck a deal with the Freys of the Crossing.
D. Missed Lord Karstark's head on the block.
Same goes for stupidity. Perhaps you could make an argument for shortsightedness, but otherwise your are completely off base.

As to your allegations of mental illness, I am somewhat familiar with the subject (I took college course on, and currently own a dictionary of Psychology), and nothing in Robb Stark's character suggests any symptoms of mental illness. So, yeah. You might be reaching a little far with your lack of reading comprehension.

Yeah we did this dance before, and if you recall trying to claim i lack comprehensions of the subject doesn't work. I am clearly well invested with the Lore.

But if you are done trying to hurt my internet feelings we can do this little debate again.

No, He sounds quite like a Hypocrite. His Mother did the Karstarks near the same dishonor and it was brushed off with a word, He broke faith with the Freys and it was all forgiven because he was appointed "King" But the same code of Honor applies to him as well, he was a self deluded teenager, not a man of honor that people portray him as.

A.He failed utterly at keeping the North together, even got a title for it. "The King who lost the North" His war went into the gutter because he failed to disclose his battle plans with his commanders, in the very instance he NEEDED to tell them, exactly what to do because his overly complicated plan ended up costing him the war. His lack of tact and faith, cost him one of his largest supporters and, Further weakened his dying cause and executing the Karstark was the blow that cast the final nail into his coffin. He failed at keeping the North Together, if he had kept it together through tact, diplomacy and wit he would have done so, instead his lack of all three cost his cause. The Greyjoys picked their moment and picked it well and struck hard, but it wasn't they who defeated the North, it was robb. He picked some battles well, and even had adequate strategy but he failed, because he ultimately didn't do what you claim him of doing here.
B.See above.
C. His Mother did that actually as you well know, She struck the terms, robb merely gave his consent. And ironically enough? Since we are disusing Honor here, it seems rather humorous to mention that, he broke faith here, he didn't honor his contract. The Freys who pledged swords and bled and die for him, were betrayed by him.
D. Actually wielding a sword is more about depth perception and coordination, rather then any show of mental aptitude or ineptitude, you do not need to be a scholar to wield a metal stick as our own history has shown.

Oh!Hooray, shared interests! I did a bit of studying on Psychology myself and i found him quite fitting for a Narcissistic personality disorder. Mostly ironically enough because of his claims to honor, that his own behavior didn't live up to, hence me beliving that he viewed himself as above it, Add in his lack of empathy and all you really need is the obsessive preoccupation of the self.

[Charellia]

Honor:
Adherence to what is right or to a conventional standard of conduct.
"I must as a matter of honor avoid any taint of dishonesty."

Sounds exactly like executing a man for killing defensless prisoners. He is upholding the moral, or honorable way of doing something.

Incompetence:
Inability to do something successfully; ineptitude.
"Allegations of professional incompetence"

If he were incompetent, he would have done one of the following:
A. Failed at keeping the north together, especially the Greatjon.
B. Not been a highly successful military leader.
C. Not have successfully struck a deal with the Freys of the Crossing.
D. Missed Lord Karstark's head on the block.
Same goes for stupidity. Perhaps you could make an argument for shortsightedness, but otherwise your are completely off base.

As to your allegations of mental illness, I am somewhat familiar with the subject (I took college course on, and currently own a dictionary of Psychology), and nothing in Robb Stark's character suggests any symptoms of mental illness. So, yeah. You might be reaching a little far with your lack of reading comprehension.

Yeah we did this dance before, and if you recall trying to claim i lack comprehensions of the subject doesn't work. I am clearly well invested with the Lore.

But if you are done trying to hurt my internet feelings we can do this little debate again.

No, He sounds quite like a Hypocrite. His Mother did the Karstarks near the same dishonor and it was brushed off with a word, He broke faith with the Freys and it was all forgiven because he was appointed "King" But the same code of Honor applies to him as well, he was a self deluded teenager, not a man of honor that people portray him as.

A.He failed utterly at keeping the North together, even got a title for it. "The King who lost the North" His war went into the gutter because he failed to disclose his battle plans with his commanders, in the very instance he NEEDED to tell them, exactly what to do because his overly complicated plan ended up costing him the war. His lack of tact and faith, cost him one of his largest supporters and, Further weakened his dying cause and executing the Karstark was the blow that cast the final nail into his coffin. He failed at keeping the North Together, if he had kept it together through tact, diplomacy and wit he would have done so, instead his lack of all three cost his cause. The Greyjoys picked their moment and picked it well and struck hard, but it wasn't they who defeated the North, it was robb. He picked some battles well, and even had adequate strategy but he failed, because he ultimately didn't do what you claim him of doing here.
B.See above.
C. His Mother did that actually as you well know, She struck the terms, robb merely gave his consent. And ironically enough? Since we are disusing Honor here, it seems rather humorous to mention that, he broke faith here, he didn't honor his contract. The Freys who pledged swords and bled and die for him, were betrayed by him.
D. Actually wielding a sword is more about depth perception and coordination, rather then any show of mental aptitude or ineptitude, you do not need to be a scholar to wield a metal stick as our own history has shown.

Oh!Hooray, shared interests! I did a bit of studying on Psychology myself and i found him quite fitting for a Narcissistic personality disorder. Mostly ironically enough because of his claims to honor, that his own behavior didn't live up to, hence me beliving that he viewed himself as above it, Add in his lack of empathy and all you really need is the obsessive preoccupation of the self.

Trying to diagnose fictional characters with mental illness is almost never a good idea. Even trying to diagnose clearly mentally ill characters like Joffrey would be inadvisable. For a character like Robb Stark trying to do a diagnosis is just ridiculous. You could look at the actions of any fictional character and find symptoms of mental illness. Unless other characters observe signs of mental illness you should not fall into the trap of trying to diagnose.

It is true that Robb's behaviour didn't live up to his claims of honour, but it is not true that he considered himself above it. Robb found himself in a conflict of honour, between his obligation to marry a Frey and a perceived obligation to marry Jeyne Westerling. He did not have an honourable way out of this conflict. Furthermore after his betrayal of the Freys he tried to put things right, but was too late because Lord Walder had already gone over to the Lannisters. Robb tried and failed to maintain his honour, but he never abandoned it or held himself above it. Thus you cannot claim that he was dishonourable. You can claim quite rightly that he lacked foresight or prudence, but those things do not make him dishonourble.

I would like an example of Robb's lack of empathy.