ASoIAF/Game of Thrones general Discussion Thread

[Ifreann]

Jon distracts Drogon with bellyrubs, Arya does the stabby, the day is saved.

If the bellyrubs don't work, then Jon can give Ghost over to Drogon as a snack. To distract it of course.

I think that after the shock of seeing the city being razed wears off, Tyrion will be hopping mad; especially since his murdered friend was exactly right about Daenerys becoming a tyrant.

He'll get over that pretty quickly once he's executed for treason. Piles of ash can't experience anger.

[Infected Mushroom]

Nah it tracks with what I've been seeing on social media. Once people sit back and thing about it, they tend to come around. Most people are fine with the trajectory, is just the season is rushed.

I mean it seems pretty obvious what happened, GRRM told them how things should end and they had no fucking idea how to get there and no idea how to make the necessary emotional connections for everything to come together. GRRM has said that he wanted things to end with something like the scouring of the Shire where after the big climactic battle they have to deal with something pretty low and petty. They also got obsessed with generating hype, writing episodes and stories that get people pumped for the next episode even if they make the actual quality suffer more. We get more excited for a big final battle between Cersei and Dany but that's never what they were delivering. Imagine telling a group of kids you're taking them to Disney World and driving most of the way there but at the last minute you cut across four lanes of traffic, do a u turn, and stop in front of an ice cream shop. We weren't going to bitch about ice cream until you said Disney World.

What we should have done was drop all the shit that happened to level the playing field. Every beat in the last two seasons has been setting Cersei up as a competent and dangerous enemy who could bring matching force to bear. The moment s8e5 starts the characters immediately know it's totally hopeless and the tension is just about whether or not Cersei will surrender before the city gets wrecked too hard. If this was what they were going for then setting Cersei up as the final boss after the final boss really only helps with hype. People get excited because they think "oh Dany still has a dragon but her army is tried and Euron can teleport anywhere" that shit gets people talking but it's not the story they were telling.

Cersei is sadistic, paranoid, and rash but she never showed any sign of competent leadership before she sat on the throne. Every leader has things they struggle with and every leader is shown very quickly that just doing what they want doesn't work. Robert fucks up the kingdoms because despite being a solid military leader he's a glutton with no financial sense, Joffrey's petty cruelty sparks a war and almost gets him ripped apart and killed, Stannis being Stannis makes everyone hate and abandon him, Tywin's military prowess and diplomatic skill are totally irrelevant when one of the children he's abused shoots on the toilet. Despite her many flaws Cersei's leadership seems pretty much fine after we leave book territory. Cersei's best moment was getting wasted in the Red Keep and breaking down into a mass of hateful neuroses. That's the character, a ball of issues so twisted she fucks one of her brothers and tries to have the other one murdered not the evil queen who threatens to rule all the realm.

Some of the best stuff in Game of Thrones was when Tyrion was setting up the defense against Stannis even though nobody appreciated it. What we should have had is that same basic framework but with Cersei who lacks Tyrion's intelligence, patience, and willingness to stomach disdain. Kings landing goes to shit, her rule is in peril, and her evil wizard advisor doesn't have much of a plan besides "scorpions everywhere." Everybody knows Cersei is incapable of putting up a fight and she is spared exclusively because Daenarys wants to unite all seven kingdoms bloodlessly and then then take her throne because people want her, not because she crushed them.

Dany is off rallying the other kingdoms to her cause. Instead of just making and then forgetting her break the wheel speech Dany decides to bring the kingdoms to her side through diplomacy, using her image the same way she did in Mereen to rally the slaves. Here though she is pressed on all sides by two of the most consistent themes in the story, people don't care who sits on the throne, and the Seven Kingdoms are not ruled by honor but by fear and blood. We watch as Dany becomes increasingly frustrated and relies more and more on brutal tactics becoming more and more emotionally unstable as she suffers loss and indignity all in the name of trying to save these people. Spend more time with her after she loses Viseryon, her child was killed and sent against as a rotting vanguard of the apocalypse and she never really has a significant reaction to it. If you have that emotional through line then when Missendai is executed and Rhaegal is killed and Varys betrays and once again tries to poison her it's not just Dany flipping the dead eyed psycho switch; it's her shattering after the the cracks that have been developed over time open up. Then there's no mistaking why she goes on tilt and the fact that she's killing the innocent as well makes sense. She came to be their salvation but they made her a conqueror.

What they did was the logical play for ratings considering if they did it your way (but stuck to GGRM's version with the NK defeated firs, assuming Martin wanted that)... there would be an even BIGGER backlash after Episode 3 because Cersei isn't a credible threat anymore.

Instead, they opted for building Cersei up as a credible threat before and after Episode 3... and then SUBVERTING that as a nod to Martin's love of subverting fantasy tropes. It's the safer play for sure.

A show where Cersei was shown to be incompetent and where you have 4 episodes of showing her forces as unable to match Danny would have resulted in more internet backlash and worse ratings. D and D also KNEW where their strengths lie... its not in writing dialogue so they decided to play to their strengths instead (which is setting up these villains the traditional way and then subverting).

[Holy Tedalonia]

Honestly not sure if Ned would make a better king. Stannis was a bit crazy, but shrewd in being honorable at least.

He burnt his daughter at the stake. yeah nah.

Honestly, giving the other candidates, hes a better pick then most

[Infected Mushroom]

^

They could have softened the blow somewhat with your approach (Cersei as poorly matched) if they actually wrote and portrayed her the way Martin did. As a tragic, sympathetic flawed protagonist.

She would need to be more sympathetic so that people will actually HOPE that she and Danny can work this out.

It doesn't necessarily match with the tone they've set with her from a few seasons back though.

Again, I think what they did was the safer play (Cersei as Final Boss, then Subvert).

[Tarsonis]

Nah it tracks with what I've been seeing on social media. Once people sit back and thing about it, they tend to come around. Most people are fine with the trajectory, is just the season is rushed.

I mean it seems pretty obvious what happened, GRRM told them how things should end and they had no fucking idea how to get there and no idea how to make the necessary emotional connections for everything to come together. GRRM has said that he wanted things to end with something like the scouring of the Shire where after the big climactic battle they have to deal with something pretty low and petty. They also got obsessed with generating hype, writing episodes and stories that get people pumped for the next episode even if they make the actual quality suffer more. We get more excited for a big final battle between Cersei and Dany but that's never what they were delivering. Imagine telling a group of kids you're taking them to Disney World and driving most of the way there but at the last minute you cut across four lanes of traffic, do a u turn, and stop in front of an ice cream shop. We weren't going to bitch about ice cream until you said Disney World.

What we should have done was drop all the shit that happened to level the playing field. Every beat in the last two seasons has been setting Cersei up as a competent and dangerous enemy who could bring matching force to bear. The moment s8e5 starts the characters immediately know it's totally hopeless and the tension is just about whether or not Cersei will surrender before the city gets wrecked too hard. If this was what they were going for then setting Cersei up as the final boss after the final boss really only helps with hype. People get excited because they think "oh Dany still has a dragon but her army is tried and Euron can teleport anywhere" that shit gets people talking but it's not the story they were telling.

Cersei is sadistic, paranoid, and rash but she never showed any sign of competent leadership before she sat on the throne. Every leader has things they struggle with and every leader is shown very quickly that just doing what they want doesn't work. Robert fucks up the kingdoms because despite being a solid military leader he's a glutton with no financial sense, Joffrey's petty cruelty sparks a war and almost gets him ripped apart and killed, Stannis being Stannis makes everyone hate and abandon him, Tywin's military prowess and diplomatic skill are totally irrelevant when one of the children he's abused shoots on the toilet. Despite her many flaws Cersei's leadership seems pretty much fine after we leave book territory. Cersei's best moment was getting wasted in the Red Keep and breaking down into a mass of hateful neuroses. That's the character, a ball of issues so twisted she fucks one of her brothers and tries to have the other one murdered not the evil queen who threatens to rule all the realm.

Some of the best stuff in Game of Thrones was when Tyrion was setting up the defense against Stannis even though nobody appreciated it. What we should have had is that same basic framework but with Cersei who lacks Tyrion's intelligence, patience, and willingness to stomach disdain. Kings landing goes to shit, her rule is in peril, and her evil wizard advisor doesn't have much of a plan besides "scorpions everywhere." Everybody knows Cersei is incapable of putting up a fight and she is spared exclusively because Daenarys wants to unite all seven kingdoms bloodlessly and then then take her throne because people want her, not because she crushed them.

Dany is off rallying the other kingdoms to her cause. Instead of just making and then forgetting her break the wheel speech Dany decides to bring the kingdoms to her side through diplomacy, using her image the same way she did in Mereen to rally the slaves. Here though she is pressed on all sides by two of the most consistent themes in the story, people don't care who sits on the throne, and the Seven Kingdoms are not ruled by honor but by fear and blood. We watch as Dany becomes increasingly frustrated and relies more and more on brutal tactics becoming more and more emotionally unstable as she suffers loss and indignity all in the name of trying to save these people. Spend more time with her after she loses Viseryon, her child was killed and sent against as a rotting vanguard of the apocalypse and she never really has a significant reaction to it. If you have that emotional through line then when Missendai is executed and Rhaegal is killed and Varys betrays and once again tries to poison her it's not just Dany flipping the dead eyed psycho switch; it's her shattering after the the cracks that have been developed over time open up. Then there's no mistaking why she goes on tilt and the fact that she's killing the innocent as well makes sense. She came to be their salvation but they made her a conqueror.

Problem there is that simply wouldn't work. Westeros is not Esos. There are no slaves in Westeros to liberate. Unlike Esos where there's an economic aristocracy propped up by slavery, Westeros runs on a feudalistic Divine Right Monarchy. In Esos, she could be a symbol of liberation, inspiring the slaves to rise up and cast down the masters who've abused and oppressed them for generations. In Westeros however, the peasants don't really give a shit whose ruling them, so long as they're fed. She can't be a symbol of liberation, because the people don't really know they're in chains.

It's much like modern American politics, theres the Political class, and then theres everybody else. Yeah theres a lot of corruption and infighting and shit at the political level, but for the average person on the ground very little really changes. So while we might bitch and complain about the government fucking shit up, if the Queen of England decided to relcaim the colonies to free us from our political squabbles theres no way we'd accept that. We'd fight GB tooth and nail.

This is the problem for Dany, is that she came to Westeros as a liberator, thinking the common man would love her as they did in Esos, but the reality is nobody bought it. The Westerosi who backed her didn't do so for her cause, they did so because they were political rivals of the Lannisters, or in the north because she agreed to help them fight the NK. The people who resisted her, like the Tarlys did so, because they don't see her as a liberator. She's a foreigner, with an army made of everything they were taught to fear as kids: Dothraki Screamers, Unsullied Eunichs, and terrible Dragons. She's a foreign conquerer.

Cersei's arc actually makes a ton of sense. As Tywin said, "Your problem is you're not nearly as clever as you think you are." She thinks she's making all the right moves, and we're supposed to kind of buy it as she goes along, but in the end we see how deluded she was.

C: "Kill the damn dragon."
Q: "All the Scorpions are dead."
C: "Alright the Iron Fleet then"
Q: "they're dead too. So is the Golden Company"
C: "We still have our soldiers, they'll fight to the last man for me."
Soldiers: "yeah fuck this we surrender"
C:"Mountain Protect me"
M: "No. I kill Brother."
C: Fuck.

Every plan she made was useless, and she couldn't accept it till it all quite literally came crashing down on her head.



This where we agree that ultimately the city betraying Cersei and surrendering the city without much of a fight, is what actually sets Dany off. In that moment she hates the people, because they're so fickle and she has sacrificed so much to save them from extermination. When she see's how easily they abandon their loyalties, and turn on their "queen" it's too much for her. She wasted all this time when what she should have done from the beginning is raise Kings Landing to the ground. She may have to rule through fear then, but she'd still have all her friends and her dragons.

The D&D created a decent story arch the problem is they've rushed to the finish line.

[Holy Tedalonia]

I mean it seems pretty obvious what happened, GRRM told them how things should end and they had no fucking idea how to get there and no idea how to make the necessary emotional connections for everything to come together. GRRM has said that he wanted things to end with something like the scouring of the Shire where after the big climactic battle they have to deal with something pretty low and petty. They also got obsessed with generating hype, writing episodes and stories that get people pumped for the next episode even if they make the actual quality suffer more. We get more excited for a big final battle between Cersei and Dany but that's never what they were delivering. Imagine telling a group of kids you're taking them to Disney World and driving most of the way there but at the last minute you cut across four lanes of traffic, do a u turn, and stop in front of an ice cream shop. We weren't going to bitch about ice cream until you said Disney World.

What we should have done was drop all the shit that happened to level the playing field. Every beat in the last two seasons has been setting Cersei up as a competent and dangerous enemy who could bring matching force to bear. The moment s8e5 starts the characters immediately know it's totally hopeless and the tension is just about whether or not Cersei will surrender before the city gets wrecked too hard. If this was what they were going for then setting Cersei up as the final boss after the final boss really only helps with hype. People get excited because they think "oh Dany still has a dragon but her army is tried and Euron can teleport anywhere" that shit gets people talking but it's not the story they were telling.

Cersei is sadistic, paranoid, and rash but she never showed any sign of competent leadership before she sat on the throne. Every leader has things they struggle with and every leader is shown very quickly that just doing what they want doesn't work. Robert fucks up the kingdoms because despite being a solid military leader he's a glutton with no financial sense, Joffrey's petty cruelty sparks a war and almost gets him ripped apart and killed, Stannis being Stannis makes everyone hate and abandon him, Tywin's military prowess and diplomatic skill are totally irrelevant when one of the children he's abused shoots on the toilet. Despite her many flaws Cersei's leadership seems pretty much fine after we leave book territory. Cersei's best moment was getting wasted in the Red Keep and breaking down into a mass of hateful neuroses. That's the character, a ball of issues so twisted she fucks one of her brothers and tries to have the other one murdered not the evil queen who threatens to rule all the realm.

Some of the best stuff in Game of Thrones was when Tyrion was setting up the defense against Stannis even though nobody appreciated it. What we should have had is that same basic framework but with Cersei who lacks Tyrion's intelligence, patience, and willingness to stomach disdain. Kings landing goes to shit, her rule is in peril, and her evil wizard advisor doesn't have much of a plan besides "scorpions everywhere." Everybody knows Cersei is incapable of putting up a fight and she is spared exclusively because Daenarys wants to unite all seven kingdoms bloodlessly and then then take her throne because people want her, not because she crushed them.

Dany is off rallying the other kingdoms to her cause. Instead of just making and then forgetting her break the wheel speech Dany decides to bring the kingdoms to her side through diplomacy, using her image the same way she did in Mereen to rally the slaves. Here though she is pressed on all sides by two of the most consistent themes in the story, people don't care who sits on the throne, and the Seven Kingdoms are not ruled by honor but by fear and blood. We watch as Dany becomes increasingly frustrated and relies more and more on brutal tactics becoming more and more emotionally unstable as she suffers loss and indignity all in the name of trying to save these people. Spend more time with her after she loses Viseryon, her child was killed and sent against as a rotting vanguard of the apocalypse and she never really has a significant reaction to it. If you have that emotional through line then when Missendai is executed and Rhaegal is killed and Varys betrays and once again tries to poison her it's not just Dany flipping the dead eyed psycho switch; it's her shattering after the the cracks that have been developed over time open up. Then there's no mistaking why she goes on tilt and the fact that she's killing the innocent as well makes sense. She came to be their salvation but they made her a conqueror.

What they did was the logical play for ratings considering if they did it your way (but stuck to GGRM's version with the NK defeated firs, assuming Martin wanted that)... there would be an even BIGGER backlash after Episode 3 because Cersei isn't a credible threat anymore.

Instead, they opted for building Cersei up as a credible threat before and after Episode 3... and then SUBVERTING that as a nod to Martin's love of subverting fantasy tropes. It's the safer play for sure.

A show where Cersei was shown to be incompetent and where you have 4 episodes of showing her forces as unable to match Danny would have resulted in more internet backlash and worse ratings. D and D also KNEW where their strengths lie... its not in writing dialogue so they decided to play to their strengths instead (which is setting up these villains the traditional way and then subverting).

I think it was fine for the most part. She kinda had nothing else to contribute, except watch her cards unfold. The issue is her cards were nerfed, for the sake of the plot. So instead of getting smug "I totally got this" we get "oh crap everythings falling apart".

I think the Cersei parts were good, it reminded me of Joffrey's death in the books, where we dont just watch it, we get it from his point of view. We get to see his last moments of him realizing hes dying. So in a sense, it does feel very GRRM in that aspect. I just think the delivery was awful.

[Tarsonis]

^

They could have softened the blow somewhat with your approach (Cersei as poorly matched) if they actually wrote and portrayed her the way Martin did. As a tragic, sympathetic flawed protagonist.

She would need to be more sympathetic so that people will actually HOPE that she and Danny can work this out.

It doesn't necessarily match with the tone they've set with her from a few seasons back though.

Again, I think what they did was the safer play (Cersei as Final Boss, then Subvert).

At no point did I ever find the Cersei of the books as a sympathetic flawed protagonist. I found her to be an evil, lying, conniving bitch, and eagerly awaited her death.

[Baltenstein]

By the way, I felt a bit of what Theon Greyjoy must have felt at Pyke today when he was trying to order the crew of the Sea Bitch around.

I was sent to sub as a cover teacher in this far away place (at a very late hour, who the hell has classes at 4:45 PM????) and the kids basically went Sea Bitch on me.

Obviously my authority was not established and so in short order I too had to resort to threats (maybe like Theon, too quickly). It was all under control at least until I had to leave the room to print some materials because the printing codes were wrong. Then it all exploded into ultimate pandemonium.

Of course, you can't threaten kids with hunting them down, throwing them out, and hanging them for treason... all I had was the No Sticker warning. I gave it many times but in the end I ended up giving the Stickers anyways because I felt kind of bad for such young kids having to attend a lesson so late in the day.

This really felt like trying to rule as a queen without an army... you have some semblance of authority but when it all breaks down and if you have to resort to empty threats, it gets out of control quickly.

Next time, try to burn one or two of them alive. Then tell the rest that they will bend the knee or you'll destroy them too. That should do the trick.

[Tarsonis]

...what prophecy is that from?

Azor Ahai reforging lightbringer.

I don't know why people, both in the world and without, keep thinking this is a thing. No where in the Prophecy of Azor Ahai reborn does it say the Prince will have to do all the same things that the original did. All it says is they will pull a sword from a fire, and that sword will be light bringer. No mention of killing a loved one.

[Des-Bal]

^

They could have softened the blow somewhat with your approach (Cersei as poorly matched) if they actually wrote and portrayed her the way Martin did. As a tragic, sympathetic flawed protagonist.

She would need to be more sympathetic so that people will actually HOPE that she and Danny can work this out.

It doesn't necessarily match with the tone they've set with her from a few seasons back though.

Again, I think what they did was the safer play (Cersei as Final Boss, then Subvert).

They've been setting it up poorly for a while, that's where most of the complaints are coming from.The sympathy should be from the people of kings landing who we all realize don't deserve to be slaughtered and burned. There wasn't a subversion here because as soon as the episode started people seemed pretty clear that it was going to be butchery.

If you want to her to be sympathetic focus on her actual character. All if her children are dead, two were nurdered, and her battle with a younger prettier queen lead to the suicide of her third. Focus on the insecurity.

The excitement shouldn't be from Cersei possibly winning it should be from the potential slaughter resukting from a direct assault. Make note of how much wildfire is left in kings landing and have her ominously talk about never surrendering. The subversion is that Cersei doesnt use the wild fire, and it's Daenerys who burns the city.

[Ethel mermania]

Jon distracts Drogon with bellyrubs, Arya does the stabby, the day is saved.

If the bellyrubs don't work, then Jon can give Ghost over to Drogon as a snack. To distract it of course.

I think that after the shock of seeing the city being razed wears off, Tyrion will be hopping mad; especially since his murdered friend was exactly right about Daenerys becoming a tyrant.

It's like nobody is allowed to have a bad day anymore.

[Des-Bal]

I don't know why people, both in the world and without, keep thinking this is a thing. No where in the Prophecy of Azor Ahai reborn does it say the Prince will have to do all the same things that the original did. All it says is they will pull a sword from a fire, and that sword will be light bringer. No mention of killing a loved one.

Because the detail that light bringer was forged by thrusting it into the heart of the wielders wife was used to note that Stannis didn't actually have light bringer. Including the detail at all makes little sense if it's not supposed to recur.

[Infected Mushroom]

^

They could have softened the blow somewhat with your approach (Cersei as poorly matched) if they actually wrote and portrayed her the way Martin did. As a tragic, sympathetic flawed protagonist.

She would need to be more sympathetic so that people will actually HOPE that she and Danny can work this out.

It doesn't necessarily match with the tone they've set with her from a few seasons back though.

Again, I think what they did was the safer play (Cersei as Final Boss, then Subvert).

They've been setting it up poorly for a while, that's where most of the complaints are coming from.The sympathy should be from the people of kings landing who we all realize don't deserve to be slaughtered and burned. There wasn't a subversion here because as soon as the episode started people seemed pretty clear that it was going to be butchery.

If you want to her to be sympathetic focus on her actual character. All if her children are dead, two were nurdered, and her battle with a younger prettier queen lead to the suicide of her third. Focus on the insecurity.

The excitement shouldn't be from Cersei possibly winning it should be from the potential slaughter resukting from a direct assault. Make note of how much wildfire is left in kings landing and have her ominously talk about never surrendering. The subversion is that Cersei doesnt use the wild fire, and it's Daenerys who burns the city.

That's never going to work with me.

The people of KL kind of deserved it. I still feel that way. They've always represented everything I've disliked about the society we've set up. The KL people have NEVER been at any point in the story been remotely likeable.

I'm one of the show's biggest fans but this whole "Don't Burn/Attack KL Because Innocents Will Die" thing was really really really silly...

It was also strange how Cersei moved towns of civilians into KL but apparently they were all either inside houses or far far behind the lines. When the Alliance troops first attacked through the walls, there were no human shields. It was just military vs military

Did the Lannister commanders go against her orders because of some rule of war thing?

Wasn't the whole point of filling KL with civilians to try and make it to the Alliance can't fight without killing innocents? Then why are they all behind the lines or in houses?

[The New California Republic]

The sympathy should be from the people of kings landing who we all realize don't deserve to be slaughtered and burned

A small part of me thought that they did.

[Tarsonis]

They've been setting it up poorly for a while, that's where most of the complaints are coming from.The sympathy should be from the people of kings landing who we all realize don't deserve to be slaughtered and burned. There wasn't a subversion here because as soon as the episode started people seemed pretty clear that it was going to be butchery.

If you want to her to be sympathetic focus on her actual character. All if her children are dead, two were nurdered, and her battle with a younger prettier queen lead to the suicide of her third. Focus on the insecurity.

The excitement shouldn't be from Cersei possibly winning it should be from the potential slaughter resukting from a direct assault. Make note of how much wildfire is left in kings landing and have her ominously talk about never surrendering. The subversion is that Cersei doesnt use the wild fire, and it's Daenerys who burns the city.

That's never going to work with me.

The people of KL kind of deserved it. I still feel that way. They've always represented everything I've disliked about the society we've set up.

I'm one of the show's biggest fans but this whole "Don't Burn/Attack KL Because Innocents Will Die" thing was really really really silly...

It was also strange how Cersei moved towns of civilians into KL but apparently they were all either inside houses or far far behind the lines. When the Alliance troops first attacked through the walls, there were no human shields. It was just military vs military

Did the Lannister commanders go against her orders because of some rule of war thing?

Wasn't the whole point of filling KL with civilians to try and make it to the Alliance can't fight without killing innocents? Then why are they all behind the lines or in houses?

The purpose of bringing in the civilians was just to make sure that Dany didn't just fly in and burn the Red Keep to the ground and score an easy victory. They assumed she wouldn't be so bold as to burninate the entire city, so she had her military prepped to repel invaders through conventional war. They guessed wrong.

[Coalition of Germany]

Who agrees that the Unsullied are the best army.

[Holy Tedalonia]

They've been setting it up poorly for a while, that's where most of the complaints are coming from.The sympathy should be from the people of kings landing who we all realize don't deserve to be slaughtered and burned. There wasn't a subversion here because as soon as the episode started people seemed pretty clear that it was going to be butchery.

If you want to her to be sympathetic focus on her actual character. All if her children are dead, two were nurdered, and her battle with a younger prettier queen lead to the suicide of her third. Focus on the insecurity.

The excitement shouldn't be from Cersei possibly winning it should be from the potential slaughter resukting from a direct assault. Make note of how much wildfire is left in kings landing and have her ominously talk about never surrendering. The subversion is that Cersei doesnt use the wild fire, and it's Daenerys who burns the city.

That's never going to work with me.

The people of KL kind of deserved it. I still feel that way. They've always represented everything I've disliked about the society we've set up. The KL people have NEVER been at any point in the story been remotely likeable.

I'm one of the show's biggest fans but this whole "Don't Burn/Attack KL Because Innocents Will Die" thing was really really really silly...

It was also strange how Cersei moved towns of civilians into KL but apparently they were all either inside houses or far far behind the lines. When the Alliance troops first attacked through the walls, there were no human shields. It was just military vs military

Did the Lannister commanders go against her orders because of some rule of war thing?

Wasn't the whole point of filling KL with civilians to try and make it to the Alliance can't fight without killing innocents? Then why are they all behind the lines or in houses?

Most were moved into the keep, in a attempt to convince deanerys to not attack the red keep. You can see the masses of people in the courtyard, as the dragon she rides flies over it. Not that it didnt help them at all.

Also Im going to have to disagree with you, the people of kings landing have seen some shit, and as such are naturally tough and difficult to manage. Its a hard life in the capital when cruel kings who murder for fun, starvation hits, and the faith militant reforms. You wonder why they have such low tolerance for the nobles shit.

[Andsed]

They've been setting it up poorly for a while, that's where most of the complaints are coming from.The sympathy should be from the people of kings landing who we all realize don't deserve to be slaughtered and burned. There wasn't a subversion here because as soon as the episode started people seemed pretty clear that it was going to be butchery.

If you want to her to be sympathetic focus on her actual character. All if her children are dead, two were nurdered, and her battle with a younger prettier queen lead to the suicide of her third. Focus on the insecurity.

The excitement shouldn't be from Cersei possibly winning it should be from the potential slaughter resukting from a direct assault. Make note of how much wildfire is left in kings landing and have her ominously talk about never surrendering. The subversion is that Cersei doesnt use the wild fire, and it's Daenerys who burns the city.

That's never going to work with me.

The people of KL kind of deserved it. I still feel that way. They've always represented everything I've disliked about the society we've set up. The KL people have NEVER been at any point in the story been remotely likeable.

I'm one of the show's biggest fans but this whole "Don't Burn/Attack KL Because Innocents Will Die" thing was really really really silly...

It was also strange how Cersei moved towns of civilians into KL but apparently they were all either inside houses or far far behind the lines. When the Alliance troops first attacked through the walls, there were no human shields. It was just military vs military

Did the Lannister commanders go against her orders because of some rule of war thing?

Wasn't the whole point of filling KL with civilians to try and make it to the Alliance can't fight without killing innocents? Then why are they all behind the lines or in houses?

Are you still pushing this really dumb idea that the pepole of Kings landing deserves to die?

[Tarsonis]

Who agrees that the Unsullied are the best army.

They're alright I suppose, I don't know if I'd say the best, but they're certainly capable. They're mostly out of their elements though. Hoplite infantry worked best on open fields, not storming castles.

[Baltenstein]

That's never going to work with me.

The people of KL kind of deserved it. I still feel that way. They've always represented everything I've disliked about the society we've set up. The KL people have NEVER been at any point in the story been remotely likeable.

I'm one of the show's biggest fans but this whole "Don't Burn/Attack KL Because Innocents Will Die" thing was really really really silly...

It was also strange how Cersei moved towns of civilians into KL but apparently they were all either inside houses or far far behind the lines. When the Alliance troops first attacked through the walls, there were no human shields. It was just military vs military

Did the Lannister commanders go against her orders because of some rule of war thing?

Wasn't the whole point of filling KL with civilians to try and make it to the Alliance can't fight without killing innocents? Then why are they all behind the lines or in houses?

Are you still pushing this really dumb idea that the pepole of Kings landing deserves to die?

IM will never forgive them for Cersei's walk of shame.

[Coalition of Germany]

Who agrees that the Unsullied are the best army.

They're alright I suppose, I don't know if I'd say the best, but they're certainly capable. They're mostly out of their elements though. Hoplite infantry worked best on open fields, not storming castles.

I really liked the Unsullied in the episode "The Long Night"

[Holy Tedalonia]

Are you still pushing this really dumb idea that the pepole of Kings landing deserves to die?

IM will never forgive them for Cersei's walk of shame.

Let it be known if you show your wanker in front of a noble women in public, your entire city should be burnt down, you included.

[Des-Bal]

Who agrees that the Unsullied are the best army.

They're alright I suppose, I don't know if I'd say the best, but they're certainly capable. They're mostly out of their elements though. Hoplite infantry worked best on open fields, not storming castles.

Defend this city from insurgents, storm this castle, assault this walled city.

Danaerys has a hammer and she keeps using it to chop wood.

[Des-Bal]

A small part of me thought that they did.

Not enough was done to humanize them. We only see smallfolk in Kings Landing when they're rioting, cheering for someone's execution, or humiliating someone. Arya could have spent some time there plotting to take out Cersei the same way she lived as the oyster cart girl while trying to get at the insurance guy.

[Holy Tedalonia]

They're alright I suppose, I don't know if I'd say the best, but they're certainly capable. They're mostly out of their elements though. Hoplite infantry worked best on open fields, not storming castles.

Defend this city from insurgents, storm this castle, assault this walled city.

Danaerys has a hammer and she keeps using it to chop wood.

Unsullied = hammer
Dothraki = Sickle

Danaerys = communism

Guys shes breaking the wheel.