ASoIAF/Game of Thrones general Discussion Thread

[The Jonathanian States]

Victarion and the Iron Fleet are in Meereen's bay. For all that's implied, those ships are there to take her back.

For all that's implied, they're there to take her. They want her as a tool for Ironborn supremacy in the name of Victarion, not for Dany's claim.

IIRC Victarion mentions wanting to also use her claim to conquest all of Westeros. If he wants to do that, he needs the forces she has.

I wouldn't bother. Since Robb isn't Stannis or Tywin "I'm only good at being intimidating" Lannister, you know he's not going to cut him or any other character with objectively more importance to the story any slack or give them any credit whatsoever. Ah well. I guess he can sit with his fingers in his ears and and keep arguing whenever the story inevitably goes in a direction opposed to all he supports.

The only differences between Robb and Stannis are personality and experience. Given aging, I could see Robb growing up to be a bit of a better tempered Stannis Baratheon.

Were he not to die, I could see him slowly becoming less rash. He already is more charismatic, and has more tactical experience that we know of Stannis, at least on land. Basically Stannis only has more experience in Politics and Strategy, possibly also Naval tactics, but those Robb doesn't really need.

I'd give Robb 5 years for/and victory in the war, and he'd be a charismatic, northern, and independent Stannis.

Still debatable if the boy even is a Targaryen, but true. But again, I discount the Targaryens at the moment. Preferably I'd like to see one of them get on the throne.

I saw a great Reddit post about it a while back. Basically, despite his shit personality, he's a relatable guy across the bases. He had his birthright snatched from him not once, but twice, in the forms of the Stormlands and the Iron Throne, and he learned from that mistake. He's honorable in his own way, even if his honor is alien to most people. He is just despite being ruthless, with Davos being the clear evidence of that. He doesn't give up even when fighting against hopeless odds, and he refuses to admit defeat when he knows in his heart that he is in the right.

That isn't to say he's perfect, of course. Despite my favor of him, he's still a harsh, people-burning asshole. But he's easy to like despite his faults.

EDIT: Found it. Spoilers and hype inside, but I think it makes some good arguments for supporting Stannis.

Is it wrong if the only thing that really stood out to me was the "For her vagina is dark and full of terrors..." comment about Melisandre?

Truth never is wrong
EDIT: I just read that thread too. That quote still is awesome, though the other nice quote I found is:

We all know the wall was built to protect the white walkers from Stannis, don't even deny it.

The only differences between Robb and Stannis are personality and experience. Given aging, I could see Robb growing up to be a bit of a better tempered Stannis Baratheon.

Seriously, experience is probably the only thing Stannis really has over the others. Age everyone else up about fifteen or twenty years and you have many of Stannis' military skills with few of his charisma flaws.

I fully agree.

It's all speculation, but it just seems all too convenient for me. The only thing that prevented her from going home was a fleet and Meereen. Now, she has several Meereenese councilors that have proven they are trustworthy (like the Shavepate). She can easily find someone to manage her free city while she sails to Westeros. As for the fleet...the largest fleet in all of Westeros just sailed right into Meereen. Eyes on her. GRRM's good with plot twists, but this just seems a bit...fortunate. Of course, it could be too good to be true, but still. Guess we wait for TWOW.

Well, while Victarion does command the Iron Fleet, Euron is the Iron King still. Presumably most are loyal to him, not Victarion. And the ships are still crewed, meaning that transporting an army would be hella difficult. As for governing Meereen, we saw what happened in Astapor; the rulers she placed in charge were overthrown, and replaced first with a tyrant king, and then with slavers once more. Without Dany to keep things under control, or the removal of the other slaving states, it isn't likely that Meereen will remain free.

About the Iron Fleet:
I do actually think that they will be more loyal to Victarion than Euron when it comes down to choosing. Victarion has led them time and time again, successfully, and let them (and led them to) plunder both in Westeros and on their journey to Mereen. Also, he has the Dragonhorn. Contrary to that Euron, who wasn't in the Isles for an eternity, suddenly only arrives to claim kingship.
About Mereen: Barristan is training knights, Astapor didn't have those. The shavepate's freedmen also weren't there in Astapor. They are fresh troops, but by the time she would be leaving, they'd probably have seen battle against the Slaver's host outside of Mereen. Additionally, of course, crushing that host should buy them quite some time.

[Mormak]

Victarion and the Iron Fleet are in Meereen's bay. For all that's implied, those ships are there to take her back.

For all that's implied, they're there to take her. They want her as a tool for Ironborn supremacy in the name of Victarion, not for Dany's claim.

I said as much myself.

[New Frenco Empire]

For all that's implied, they're there to take her. They want her as a tool for Ironborn supremacy in the name of Victarion, not for Dany's claim.

I said as much myself.

As Jonathan said, he'll need her forces if he wants to use her claim. In order to take her force, she'll need to consent. Unless, of course, the Ironborn intend to try and cleave their way through thousands of Unsullied and Brazen Beasts just to kidnap a girl who isn't there.

[Mormak]

I said as much myself.

As Jonathan said, he'll need her forces if he wants to use her claim. In order to take her force, she'll need to consent. Unless, of course, the Ironborn intend to try and cleave their way through thousands of Unsullied and Brazen Beasts just to kidnap a girl who isn't there.

As Jonathan often is, its wrong.

Yeah see, that doesn't work because she doesn't have what he wants through claim, he wants the Islands, not much else. He wants her because of the Islands, So them cleaving through those armies? Not implausible. Ironborn after all, are coming in as marines, while the battle is ongoing, whomever their horde crashes into, will like be forced to combat two armies at once. And once its discovered she isn't there, there really isn't a point to sticking around.

Claim? Consent? Ironborn? It takes killing half of them just to get them to bend the Knee, And again The little Admiral doesn't seem interested in anything beyond Westerso Somalia.

So, Its not a match made in heaven, its likely not going to result in an alliance, and it more then will like ruin one or both parties. I really don't care, should be fun to read though.

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

I said as much myself.

As Jonathan said, he'll need her forces if he wants to use her claim. In order to take her force, she'll need to consent. Unless, of course, the Ironborn intend to try and cleave their way through thousands of Unsullied and Brazen Beasts just to kidnap a girl who isn't there.

The Ironborn can if they hadenough men.

[New Frenco Empire]

As Jonathan said, he'll need her forces if he wants to use her claim. In order to take her force, she'll need to consent. Unless, of course, the Ironborn intend to try and cleave their way through thousands of Unsullied and Brazen Beasts just to kidnap a girl who isn't there.

As Jonathan often is, its wrong.

Yeah see, that doesn't work because she doesn't have what he wants through claim, he wants the Islands, not much else. He wants her because of the Islands, So them cleaving through those armies? Not implausible. Ironborn after all, are coming in as marines, while the battle is ongoing, whomever their horde crashes into, will like be forced to combat two armies at once. And once its discovered she isn't there, there really isn't a point to sticking around.

Claim? Consent? Ironborn? It takes killing half of them just to get them to bend the Knee, And again The little Admiral doesn't seem interested in anything beyond Westerso Somalia.

So, Its not a match made in heaven, its likely not going to result in an alliance, and it more then will like ruin one or both parties. I really don't care, should be fun to read though.

Fun to read as things go in the right direction for her, as they usually do. Though, of course, since you seem to enjoy arrogantly moving goalposts to suit your own illogical outlook, I doubt much will change.

The ships are in the bay of Meereen, meaning they'll have to fight past the Yunkish and Qartheen vessels. Afterwards, they'll be landing against the Yunkish. Meanwhile, Barristan will be will be marching Dany's force. Assuming he can get Dragonbinder to work, Rhaegal and Viserion will be used to decimate the Yunkish force.

By that time, Moqorro's influence would make a difference.

[Mormak]

As Jonathan often is, its wrong.

Yeah see, that doesn't work because she doesn't have what he wants through claim, he wants the Islands, not much else. He wants her because of the Islands, So them cleaving through those armies? Not implausible. Ironborn after all, are coming in as marines, while the battle is ongoing, whomever their horde crashes into, will like be forced to combat two armies at once. And once its discovered she isn't there, there really isn't a point to sticking around.

Claim? Consent? Ironborn? It takes killing half of them just to get them to bend the Knee, And again The little Admiral doesn't seem interested in anything beyond Westerso Somalia.

So, Its not a match made in heaven, its likely not going to result in an alliance, and it more then will like ruin one or both parties. I really don't care, should be fun to read though.

Though, of course, since you seem to enjoy arrogantly moving goalposts to suit your own illogical outlook.

I am beginning to wonder if you understand what that Fallacy is.

Because, i haven't employed it, because my stance hasn't changed, at all, not once, on this subject.

Your own misuse of it though, its more odd then anything else though.

As Jonathan often is, its wrong.

Yeah see, that doesn't work because she doesn't have what he wants through claim, he wants the Islands, not much else. He wants her because of the Islands, So them cleaving through those armies? Not implausible. Ironborn after all, are coming in as marines, while the battle is ongoing, whomever their horde crashes into, will like be forced to combat two armies at once. And once its discovered she isn't there, there really isn't a point to sticking around.

Claim? Consent? Ironborn? It takes killing half of them just to get them to bend the Knee, And again The little Admiral doesn't seem interested in anything beyond Westerso Somalia.

So, Its not a match made in heaven, its likely not going to result in an alliance, and it more then will like ruin one or both parties. I really don't care, should be fun to read though.

The ships are in the bay of Meereen, meaning they'll have to fight past the Yunkish and Qartheen vessels. Afterwards, they'll be landing against the Yunkish. Meanwhile, Barristan will be will be marching Dany's force. Assuming he can get Dragonbinder to work, Rhaegal and Viserion will be used to decimate the Yunkish force.

By that time, Moqorro's influence would make a difference.

That sounds suspiciously like a whole bunch of conjecture. Which you labeled as illogical earlier.

[New Frenco Empire]

Though, of course, since you seem to enjoy arrogantly moving goalposts to suit your own illogical outlook.

I am beginning to wonder if you understand what that Fallacy is.

Because, i haven't employed it, because my stance hasn't changed, at all, not once, on this subject.

Your own misuse of it though, its more odd then anything else though.

The ships are in the bay of Meereen, meaning they'll have to fight past the Yunkish and Qartheen vessels. Afterwards, they'll be landing against the Yunkish. Meanwhile, Barristan will be will be marching Dany's force. Assuming he can get Dragonbinder to work, Rhaegal and Viserion will be used to decimate the Yunkish force.

By that time, Moqorro's influence would make a difference.

That sounds suspiciously like a whole bunch of conjecture. Which you labeled as illogical earlier.

For the top, I'm not going to argue you on it. It's clear you won't admit to it, despite it being pointed out multiple times. Again, fingers in ears and whining "nana nana nana".

As for the conjecture, it's more credible than anything else. Victarion just sailed into a hostile fleet. He'll have to fight them. Is it that hard to comprehend?

[Mormak]

I am beginning to wonder if you understand what that Fallacy is.

Because, i haven't employed it, because my stance hasn't changed, at all, not once, on this subject.

Your own misuse of it though, its more odd then anything else though.



That sounds suspiciously like a whole bunch of conjecture. Which you labeled as illogical earlier.

For the top, I'm not going to argue you on it. It's clear you won't admit to it, despite it being pointed out multiple times. Again, fingers in ears and whining "nana nana nana".

As for the conjecture, it's more credible than anything else. Victarion just sailed into a hostile fleet. He'll have to fight them. Is it that hard to comprehend?

If by being pointed out, you mean people saying it, not giving any proof and that being that, and me rightly pointing out, nothing HAS SHIFTED at all. I will agree, that its not going to be acknowledged, because it hasn't happened, and given, no citation on it is forth coming, well. It sounds to me, like those accusing folks of it, really don't know how it works, because it you know, actually requires a reverse of stance, which hasn't happened, on anything yet.

Not really, Last i checked, he just sat in the bay, blocking the Northern passage out of it, he hadn't moved to engage.

So...He could just sit there and watch, which is actually the smart move here, if the tri headed dragon loses its last bastion, its position to reject House Greyjoy is much, much weaker. Victarion can sit back, and watch the Slavers win the day, and actually get what he wants without lifting a finger. Much better then going to engage a navy that is much larger then your own force, and is in active combat. Its not like burning a fleet in port, they would be engaging a force more then double their size that is prepared to fight.

[Bralia]

Alright people, calm your fucking tits already. I know, this is Game of Thrones, tits are always agitated in this series, but STILL.

[The Jonathanian States]

Alright people, calm your fucking tits already. I know, this is Game of Thrones, tits are always agitated in this series, but STILL.

Hehe, I see what you did there.

[Raurosia]

Alright people, calm your fucking tits already. I know, this is Game of Thrones, tits are always agitated in this series, but STILL.

Hehe, I see what you did there.

Calm your direwolves, three headed dragons, lions, krakens, and flowers

[The Huskar Social Union]

Alright people, calm your fucking tits already. I know, this is Game of Thrones, tits are always agitated in this series, but STILL.

Well played, 7/10.

[Mormak]

Hehe, I see what you did there.

Calm your direwolves, three headed dragons, lions, krakens, and flowers

I like House Payne's sigil best out of all of em, i think if i am being honest.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Calm your direwolves, three headed dragons, lions, krakens, and flowers

I like House Payne's sigil best out of all of em, i think if i am being honest.

Eh its not that great in my opinion, dont like the design and the colour combo on said design.

I like all of the Major House's sigils, they are all cool in their own way, though my favourites would be Stannis' personal sigil, House Stark and House Lannister.

My favourite minor house sigils would be that of House BlackWood and House Ryswell

[Valentir]

I like the sigils of House Tyrell, Stark, Dayne, Reyne, Manderly, and Stannis.

[The Jonathanian States]

I like the sigils of House Tyrell, Stark, Dayne, Reyne, Manderly, and Stannis.

Stark sigil = best sigil! Totally unbiased!

[Mormak]

and Stannis.

The flaming heart is awesome

[The Huskar Social Union]

and Stannis.

The flaming heart is awesome

Damn right it is, easily my favourite sigil in the series.

[The Jonathanian States]

Hehe, I see what you did there.

Calm your direwolves¹, three headed dragons², lions³, krakens⁴, and flowers⁵

Joffrey took care of that.

That one goes on the doom.

Haven't seen any of those, actually. Where are they, those Lions?

Wasn't that some ancient Ironborn hero who slew the beast?

Flowers don't move too much, usually, do they?

[Warkonya]

The flaming heart is awesome

Damn right it is, easily my favourite sigil in the series.

I'll have peace on those terms. *Looks at signature* Yeah, not biased...totally not biased.

[Ceannairceach]

The flaming heart is awesome

Damn right it is, easily my favourite sigil in the series.

I prefer the Martell sigil. In general I find them classy. "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken" is easily one of the best mottoes.

[Zaereas]

Damn right it is, easily my favourite sigil in the series.

I prefer the Martell sigil. In general I find them classy. "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken" is easily one of the best mottoes.

I love the Martells. Wish we could see more of them.

[Ceannairceach]

I prefer the Martell sigil. In general I find them classy. "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken" is easily one of the best mottoes.

I love the Martells. Wish we could see more of them.

They get more time in later books and seasons.

[Warkonya]

Martells run as a close second for me in terms of Sigil favoring...if only because their words are about as close to "F**k off" as its appropriate for a noble house to have.