ASoIAF/Game of Thrones general Discussion Thread

[Tarsonis]

there doesn’t fucking have to be. Ffs. All that’s necessary is that the Volanqar be responsible for her death! He holds he by the neck, and she dies with him. It doesn’t matter that he did not forcibly asphyxiate her, they were close enough to the lines of the prophecy. She’s crying, he has his hand around her neck, she dies and it’s jamies fault. As far as prophecy fulfillments go, that’s closer than most. You’re just being willfully obstinate at this point.

As far as I'm concerned, if no little brother choked Cersei to death with their hands (that choking causing the death)... then it was not fulfilled

I think you don't agree because you're taking a very very liberal interpretation of the prophecy

prophecies always are fulfilled by “liberal interpretations”. That’s why I’m right and you’re wrong.

[Tarsonis]

Yeah, Im fine with it too, but still salty that Dany had no goddamn reason to burn the city. I mean, if you think about it, wouldnt the burning of the Red Keep suffice? We had civilians being brought in the Red Keep as hostages, We got Angry Dany who really wants to kill Cersei, and what better way to reveal tyrannical reformist then to burn the castle of kings landing the Red Keep in a show of might and fire? But no lets make her simply despicable rather then unlikable.

But no, I guess Dany's going to spend time killing sweet children rather then target her number one political enemy. Hell, I think the innocents in Red Keep had a more likely chance to survive given how she pelted those streets rather then the Red Keeps courtyard.

I got what they were going for. She'd refused to attack kings landing for the sake of the people living there and then as she started to see it as a more valid option she was consistently counseled away from it. One of her children was killed and despite that her first act was to offer a chance at bloodless surrender that was greeted with the murder of her closest friend and advisor. Instead of heralding her as their savior and rightful queen like in Mereen the people were happy enough to hide behind the walls and protection of her mortal enemy. Victory was almost almost effortless and after all the pain and hardship the enemy tried to surrender without much of a battle taking place.

She was furious about the time and lives that had been wasted, furious at the stupid betrayals, furious at the fact that even her allies were looking for a different leader. In that scene she searches herself and finds she is not ready to let these people get away with a brief skirmish and prompt surrender.

didn’t you say I was writing a better story than D&D we’re making when I said this?

[Des-Bal]

didn’t you saw I was writing a better story thanks D&D we’re making when I said this?

I did say that but when I stepped back I realized the pieces fit together it's just that the bad writing and time constraints mean the story only works as a summary. Rhaegal and Missendai's abrupt and unsatisfying deaths, her pointing out the slaves rebelled when she came for them in Mereen, her palpable anger at Tyrion's judgements as her hand, the effortless destruction of the golden company etc. There are tons of little fiddly bits that point to her becoming increasingly angry with Cersei and her angry with the smallfolk of Westeros for not accepting her as Queen it's just that we don't spend enough time developing any of it so the story only looks good from far away.

[Des-Bal]

Controversial opinion: They should have got Ed Sheeran back to be one of the surrendering Lannisters. That moment he and the gang had with Arya served to humanize the Lannister foot soldiers and nothing really happened to keep that idea going- that these were just guys doing their job and they wanted to go home. If Ed Sheeran, the soldier Arya had a humanizing moment with, is there trying to surrender then they connect the two scenes without having scenes in between to remind that the soldiers are people.

[Andsed]

Controversial opinion: They should have got Ed Sheeran back to be one of the surrendering Lannisters. That moment he and the gang had with Arya served to humanize the Lannister foot soldiers and nothing really happened to keep that idea going- that these were just guys doing their job and they wanted to go home. If Ed Sheeran, the soldier Arya had a humanizing moment with, is there trying to surrender then they connect the two scenes without having scenes in between to remind that the soldiers are people.

Honestly I would of the loved to see that. I hate when stories try to show conflicts as good vs evil or black and white so humanizing the Lannister soldiers would be a nice thing to see.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Controversial opinion: They should have got Ed Sheeran back to be one of the surrendering Lannisters. That moment he and the gang had with Arya served to humanize the Lannister foot soldiers and nothing really happened to keep that idea going- that these were just guys doing their job and they wanted to go home. If Ed Sheeran, the soldier Arya had a humanizing moment with, is there trying to surrender then they connect the two scenes without having scenes in between to remind that the soldiers are people.

Well you do see Lannister soldiers trying to help civilians get away once she starts torching the place and trying to delay the stark and unsullied soldiers when they begin slaughtering people. As well as a lot of lannisters just straight up being massacred when they have no weapons. So i think they did do that, but that is a really good idea you have.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Also episode does not seem to be as dividing as i thought it was gona be, most people seem to like it

[New haven america]

Also episode does not seem to be as dividing as i thought it was gona be, most people seem to like it

Burn them all!

[The Huskar Social Union]

Also episode does not seem to be as dividing as i thought it was gona be, most people seem to like it

Burn them all!

Oh shit who brought the bells? YE YE YE YE Y-


....


whats that shadow? Anyone else smell barbecue?

[New haven america]

Burn them all!

Oh shit who brought the bells? YE YE YE YE Y-


....


whats that shadow? Anyone else smell barbecue?

>:3

[Cedoria]

Glad I wasn't the only one who liked the episode. Pacing issues a problem but that's because of the rushed timeline. Dany going all bonkers and burning stuff has been telegraphed for a long time now, and even more so in the books. Just the pacing made it a bit tough for some people.

Still, I am gloating over nearly half a decade spent telling people Dany wasn't one of the good guys and having everyone yell at me for it. It's not often I take such perverse pleasure in being right, but I am now:)

[The Huskar Social Union]

Game of Thrones prequel "Blood Moon" has started filming here in Belfast

Lead writer and producer is Jane Goldman (with helm from GRRM i believe), and Naomi Watts is reportedly going to play the lead role.


here are goldmans credits by the way in case you wana see what she has worked on

[Ethel mermania]

Also episode does not seem to be as dividing as i thought it was gona be, most people seem to like it

At least I could see it, liked the spectacle of it. No doggo was improperly unpet. 1 point for clegegebowl, which for I was a skeptic, but I must confess I enjoyed it.

and upon reflection and reading some posts here, storywise I am ok with the Jamie, Cersei ending, it's the butchered pacing hurt it for me, which isnt the fault of the episode per se, but the decision to cram 20 shows into 13. Staff must get paid by the episode.

[Infected Mushroom]

As far as I'm concerned, if no little brother choked Cersei to death with their hands (that choking causing the death)... then it was not fulfilled

I think you don't agree because you're taking a very very liberal interpretation of the prophecy

prophecies always are fulfilled by “liberal interpretations”. That’s why I’m right and you’re wrong.

Can you provide an example of a Greek tragedy where a prophecy was "liberally" and NOT "literally" fulfilled?

The ones I'm familiar with are Oedipus where it was prophesied he would kill his father and marry his mother (very literally fulfilled)

[Infected Mushroom]

Controversial opinion: They should have got Ed Sheeran back to be one of the surrendering Lannisters. That moment he and the gang had with Arya served to humanize the Lannister foot soldiers and nothing really happened to keep that idea going- that these were just guys doing their job and they wanted to go home. If Ed Sheeran, the soldier Arya had a humanizing moment with, is there trying to surrender then they connect the two scenes without having scenes in between to remind that the soldiers are people.

Honestly I would of the loved to see that. I hate when stories try to show conflicts as good vs evil or black and white so humanizing the Lannister soldiers would be a nice thing to see.

They WERE humanised though. Surely even the most die-hard Targ supporters when watching that scene HAD to feel at least a bit bad for the poor fellows on the wall yelling and conducting "FIRE" and those soldiers who were slaughtered in that street fight

[Infected Mushroom]

By the way, I felt a bit of what Theon Greyjoy must have felt at Pyke today when he was trying to order the crew of the Sea Bitch around.

I was sent to sub as a cover teacher in this far away place (at a very late hour, who the hell has classes at 4:45 PM????) and the kids basically went Sea Bitch on me.

Obviously my authority was not established and so in short order I too had to resort to threats (maybe like Theon, too quickly). It was all under control at least until I had to leave the room to print some materials because the printing codes were wrong. Then it all exploded into ultimate pandemonium.

Of course, you can't threaten kids with hunting them down, throwing them out, and hanging them for treason... all I had was the No Sticker warning. I gave it many times but in the end I ended up giving the Stickers anyways because I felt kind of bad for such young kids having to attend a lesson so late in the day.

This really felt like trying to rule as a queen without an army... you have some semblance of authority but when it all breaks down and if you have to resort to empty threats, it gets out of control quickly.

[Tarsonis]

prophecies always are fulfilled by “liberal interpretations”. That’s why I’m right and you’re wrong.

Can you provide an example of a Greek tragedy where a prophecy was "liberally" and NOT "literally" fulfilled?

The ones I'm familiar with are Oedipus where it was prophesied he would kill his father and marry his mother (very literally fulfilled)

Not a greek one off the top of my head, admittedly. A good non-Greek example liberal prophecy fulfillment would be the episode "Prophecy" from ST Voyager

[Kragholm Free States]

By the way, I felt a bit of what Theon Greyjoy must have felt at Pyke today when he was trying to order the crew of the Sea Bitch around.

I was sent to sub as a cover teacher in this far away place (at a very late hour, who the hell has classes at 4:45 PM????) and the kids basically went Sea Bitch on me.

Obviously my authority was not established and so in short order I too had to resort to threats (maybe like Theon, too quickly). It was all under control at least until I had to leave the room to print some materials because the printing codes were wrong. Then it all exploded into ultimate pandemonium.

Of course, you can't threaten kids with hunting them down, throwing them out, and hanging them for treason... all I had was the No Sticker warning. I gave it many times but in the end I ended up giving the Stickers anyways because I felt kind of bad for such young kids having to attend a lesson so late in the day.

This really felt like trying to rule as a queen without an army... you have some semblance of authority but when it all breaks down and if you have to resort to empty threats, it gets out of control quickly.

Should have burned them all.

[The Huskar Social Union]

By the way, I felt a bit of what Theon Greyjoy must have felt at Pyke today when he was trying to order the crew of the Sea Bitch around.

I was sent to sub as a cover teacher in this far away place (at a very late hour, who the hell has classes at 4:45 PM????) and the kids basically went Sea Bitch on me.

Obviously my authority was not established and so in short order I too had to resort to threats (maybe like Theon, too quickly). It was all under control at least until I had to leave the room to print some materials because the printing codes were wrong. Then it all exploded into ultimate pandemonium.

Of course, you can't threaten kids with hunting them down, throwing them out, and hanging them for treason... all I had was the No Sticker warning. I gave it many times but in the end I ended up giving the Stickers anyways because I felt kind of bad for such young kids having to attend a lesson so late in the day.

This really felt like trying to rule as a queen without an army... you have some semblance of authority but when it all breaks down and if you have to resort to empty threats, it gets out of control quickly.

Can you not toss em into detention if they wouldnt stop fucking around? Im near certain subs in my old school could have done that.

[Auristania]

there doesn’t fucking have to be. Ffs. All that’s necessary is that the Volanqar be responsible for her death! He holds he by the neck, and she dies with him. It doesn’t matter that he did not forcibly asphyxiate her, they were close enough to the lines of the prophecy. She’s crying, he has his hand around her neck, she dies and it’s jamies fault. As far as prophecy fulfillments go, that’s closer than most. You’re just being willfully obstinate at this point.

As far as I'm concerned, if no little brother choked Cersei to death with their hands (that choking causing the death)... then it was not fulfilled

I think you don't agree because you're taking a very very liberal interpretation of the prophecy

Valonqar Prophecy

was dropped in the show and never fulfilled. This is consistent

Prophecy of Cersei's children in golden shrouds was spoken and fulfilled in the show, likewise consistent.

Valonqar will CAUSE death is different from will be present.

Dannys the womannis

it was obvious from since she nuked the Tarlys.

[Infected Mushroom]

Can you provide an example of a Greek tragedy where a prophecy was "liberally" and NOT "literally" fulfilled?

The ones I'm familiar with are Oedipus where it was prophesied he would kill his father and marry his mother (very literally fulfilled)

Not a greek one off the top of my head, admittedly. A good non-Greek example liberal prophecy fulfillment would be the episode "Prophecy" from ST Voyager

Okay that may well be the case but my understanding of Greek tragedies and Shakespearean tragedies is that if there is a prophecy "fulfilled" its usually within the literal meaning of the words

[Infected Mushroom]

By the way, I felt a bit of what Theon Greyjoy must have felt at Pyke today when he was trying to order the crew of the Sea Bitch around.

I was sent to sub as a cover teacher in this far away place (at a very late hour, who the hell has classes at 4:45 PM????) and the kids basically went Sea Bitch on me.

Obviously my authority was not established and so in short order I too had to resort to threats (maybe like Theon, too quickly). It was all under control at least until I had to leave the room to print some materials because the printing codes were wrong. Then it all exploded into ultimate pandemonium.

Of course, you can't threaten kids with hunting them down, throwing them out, and hanging them for treason... all I had was the No Sticker warning. I gave it many times but in the end I ended up giving the Stickers anyways because I felt kind of bad for such young kids having to attend a lesson so late in the day.

This really felt like trying to rule as a queen without an army... you have some semblance of authority but when it all breaks down and if you have to resort to empty threats, it gets out of control quickly.

Can you not toss em into detention if they wouldnt stop fucking around? Im near certain subs in my old school could have done that.

We have no detention power (its sad), parents throw their 5-8 years olds to us during the day or the afternoon for a class to learn/play with English

we're advertised as a "fun" organisation and our powers of punishment (beyond taking away chairs, talking to the parents, or not giving stickers) is pretty much literally NIL

It really makes me feel like a queen without an army, once they start a revolution, it becomes a battle of personalities (but with no real weapons to use)

[Tarsonis]

Not a greek one off the top of my head, admittedly. A good non-Greek example liberal prophecy fulfillment would be the episode "Prophecy" from ST Voyager

Okay that may well be the case but my understanding of Greek tragedies and Shakespearean tragedies is that if there is a prophecy "fulfilled" its usually within the literal meaning of the words

Not always. Take MacBeth. The prophecy was that he'd be king until the Burnam Wood came to Dunsinane. He believed that this would mean he would be king until the forest spread to the walls so he thought it was bogus prophecy or a prophecy he could control by keeping the forest trimmed. Instead it meant that his enemies would use small trees as camouflage as they moved up to the castle at night. The Wood didn't literally come to Dunsinane. It's a very liberal fulfillment of the prophecy.

The same can be understood here.
"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you"

1. She would drown herself in tears. Well she didn't literally down, but she was sobbing when she died.
2. The volonquar shall wrap his hands around her neck. He did, well hand. He holds he by the throat to get her to look at him, and then when he holds her at the moment of death his good hand is still on the back of her neck.
3. Choke the life from her. This is the real contention, but if we understand this as a metaphorical choking rather than literal choking it fits just fine. He led her to her death, as a result of their relationship. A relationship was broken, dysfunctional and oppressive to each other. Yes he didn't literally strangle her, but they still smothered each other unto death.

[Fedel]

Also episode does not seem to be as dividing as i thought it was gona be, most people seem to like it

Do you think the poll might be being artificially inflated? That's far more votes on this episode then we've gotten on any previous one for this season.

[Tarsonis]

Also episode does not seem to be as dividing as i thought it was gona be, most people seem to like it

Do you think the poll might be being artificially inflated? That's far more votes on this episode then we've gotten on any previous one for this season.

Nah it tracks with what I've been seeing on social media. Once people sit back and thing about it, they tend to come around. Most people are fine with the trajectory, is just the season is rushed.