ASoIAF/Game of Thrones general Discussion Thread

[Mormak]

He also had access to talented and skilled Bannermen who actually ran the battles, while he was busying fighting in them like a common soldier and not a General.

Did you miss the part where he not only planned the Battle of Whispering Wood, but carried out his plans perfectly?

I guess you are just so determined to paint the characters how you lazily read them that you are willing to forget important things like that.

You mean routing a disorganized fleeing force? He also had access to theon greyjoy, the Umbers,karstarks and the black fish, all talented and seasoned commanders running the direction of the battle. Robb was there, but any "command" prowess he demonstrates there is lost given that he wasn't commanding.

He was fighting, and given he wasn't directing the order of battle the notion he was crucial for it falls flat.

[The Treorai]

Did you miss the part where he not only planned the Battle of Whispering Wood, but carried out his plans perfectly?

I guess you are just so determined to paint the characters how you lazily read them that you are willing to forget important things like that.

You mean routing a disorganized fleeing force? He also had access to theon greyjoy, the Umbers,karstarks and the black fish, all talented and seasoned commanders running the direction of the battle. Robb was there, but any "command" prowess he demonstrates there is lost given that he wasn't commanding.

He was fighting, and given he wasn't directing the order of battle the notion he was crucial for it falls flat.

...No, I mean the battle that effectively destroyed Lannister presence in the Riverlands until Tywin "the Severely Overrated" came to blunder his way into even more undeserved reverence.

You clearly have no concept of how medieval warfare worked. It doesn't work like fucking Total War. There isn't some omnipotent armchair genreal giving orders to everyone, nor are there fucking messengers carrying orders from camp to battle. the leaders of armies would actually FUCKING LEAD THEIR ARMIES AND COMMAND THEM FROM THE VAN AND FLANKS.

Please, stop making shit up as you go along.

Besides, even if the Stark forces were being commanded via fucking Pony Express, you are still ignoring the fact that he played an instrumental role in not only devising the plan, but enacting it, and seeing it through.

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

Did you miss the part where he not only planned the Battle of Whispering Wood, but carried out his plans perfectly?

I guess you are just so determined to paint the characters how you lazily read them that you are willing to forget important things like that.

You mean routing a disorganized fleeing force? He also had access to theon greyjoy, the Umbers,karstarks and the black fish, all talented and seasoned commanders running the direction of the battle. Robb was there, but any "command" prowess he demonstrates there is lost given that he wasn't commanding.

He was fighting, and given he wasn't directing the order of battle the notion he was crucial for it falls flat.

How would he direct the battle? How can anyone direct the battle? It's a huge fucking melee!

[The Treorai]

You mean routing a disorganized fleeing force? He also had access to theon greyjoy, the Umbers,karstarks and the black fish, all talented and seasoned commanders running the direction of the battle. Robb was there, but any "command" prowess he demonstrates there is lost given that he wasn't commanding.

He was fighting, and given he wasn't directing the order of battle the notion he was crucial for it falls flat.

How would he direct the battle? How can anyone direct the battle? It's a huge fucking melee!

Because he couldn't successfully shift the goalposts that time without ignoring how warfare in the middle ages occurred.

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

How would he direct the battle? How can anyone direct the battle? It's a huge fucking melee!

Because he couldn't successfully shift the goalposts that time without ignoring how warfare in the middle ages occurred.

Even until the first world war directing a battle is nigh impossible!

[New Frenco Empire]

You mean routing a disorganized fleeing force? He also had access to theon greyjoy, the Umbers,karstarks and the black fish, all talented and seasoned commanders running the direction of the battle. Robb was there, but any "command" prowess he demonstrates there is lost given that he wasn't commanding.

He was fighting, and given he wasn't directing the order of battle the notion he was crucial for it falls flat.

...No, I mean the battle that effectively destroyed Lannister presence in the Riverlands until Tywin "the Severely Overrated" came to blunder his way into even more undeserved reverence.

You clearly have no concept of how medieval warfare worked. It doesn't work like fucking Total War. There isn't some omnipotent armchair genreal giving orders to everyone, nor are there fucking messengers carrying orders from camp to battle. the leaders of armies would actually FUCKING LEAD THEIR ARMIES AND COMMAND THEM FROM THE VAN AND FLANKS.

Please, stop making shit up as you go along.

Besides, even if the Stark forces were being commanded via fucking Pony Express, you are still ignoring the fact that he played an instrumental role in not only devising the plan, but enacting it, and seeing it through.

I wouldn't bother. Since Robb isn't Stannis or Tywin "I'm only good at being intimidating" Lannister, you know he's not going to cut him or any other character with objectively more importance to the story any slack or give them any credit whatsoever. Ah well. I guess he can sit with his fingers in his ears and and keep arguing whenever the story inevitably goes in a direction opposed to all he supports.

[The Treorai]

...No, I mean the battle that effectively destroyed Lannister presence in the Riverlands until Tywin "the Severely Overrated" came to blunder his way into even more undeserved reverence.

You clearly have no concept of how medieval warfare worked. It doesn't work like fucking Total War. There isn't some omnipotent armchair genreal giving orders to everyone, nor are there fucking messengers carrying orders from camp to battle. the leaders of armies would actually FUCKING LEAD THEIR ARMIES AND COMMAND THEM FROM THE VAN AND FLANKS.

Please, stop making shit up as you go along.

Besides, even if the Stark forces were being commanded via fucking Pony Express, you are still ignoring the fact that he played an instrumental role in not only devising the plan, but enacting it, and seeing it through.

I wouldn't bother. Since Robb isn't Stannis or Tywin "I'm only good at being intimidating" Lannister, you know he's not going to cut him or any other character with objectively more importance to the story any slack or give them any credit whatsoever. Ah well. I guess he can sit with his fingers in his ears and and keep arguing whenever the story inevitably goes in a direction opposed to all he supports.

It's like he thinks his reverence of the stern and rather despicable characters whilst feigning that they are the deepest and best things to ever happen to literature makes him cool, when in reality it just makes him sound as if he knows nothing of what he is talking about when he attempts to bend reality to the contours of his illogical mess.

[Ceannairceach]

...No, I mean the battle that effectively destroyed Lannister presence in the Riverlands until Tywin "the Severely Overrated" came to blunder his way into even more undeserved reverence.

You clearly have no concept of how medieval warfare worked. It doesn't work like fucking Total War. There isn't some omnipotent armchair genreal giving orders to everyone, nor are there fucking messengers carrying orders from camp to battle. the leaders of armies would actually FUCKING LEAD THEIR ARMIES AND COMMAND THEM FROM THE VAN AND FLANKS.

Please, stop making shit up as you go along.

Besides, even if the Stark forces were being commanded via fucking Pony Express, you are still ignoring the fact that he played an instrumental role in not only devising the plan, but enacting it, and seeing it through.

I wouldn't bother. Since Robb isn't Stannis or Tywin "I'm only good at being intimidating" Lannister, you know he's not going to cut him or any other character with objectively more importance to the story any slack or give them any credit whatsoever. Ah well. I guess he can sit with his fingers in his ears and and keep arguing whenever the story inevitably goes in a direction opposed to all he supports.

The only differences between Robb and Stannis are personality and experience. Given aging, I could see Robb growing up to be a bit of a better tempered Stannis Baratheon.

[New Frenco Empire]

I wouldn't bother. Since Robb isn't Stannis or Tywin "I'm only good at being intimidating" Lannister, you know he's not going to cut him or any other character with objectively more importance to the story any slack or give them any credit whatsoever. Ah well. I guess he can sit with his fingers in his ears and and keep arguing whenever the story inevitably goes in a direction opposed to all he supports.

The only differences between Robb and Stannis are personality and experience. Given aging, I could see Robb growing up to be a bit of a better tempered Stannis Baratheon.

Seriously, experience is probably the only thing Stannis really has over the others. Age everyone else up about fifteen or twenty years and you have many of Stannis' military skills with few of his charisma flaws.

[Ceannairceach]

The only differences between Robb and Stannis are personality and experience. Given aging, I could see Robb growing up to be a bit of a better tempered Stannis Baratheon.

Seriously, experience is probably the only thing Stannis really has over the others. Age everyone else up about fifteen or twenty years and you have many of Stannis' military skills with few of his charisma flaws.

Well, aside from the Targaryens, he also has the best claim to the throne, being Robert's only surviving brother. Also, whatever his flaws, I do still like Stannis. As the recent episode said,

When all is said and done, who at the moment has the best ability to role? Tommen or Myrcella, the incest-born bastards who are pawns to their elders? The Greyjoys don't even want the throne. Daenerys is a long way from Westeros, and she might not ever get home. All the other pretenders and claimants are dead or gone. All that is left is Stannis. And I think he might do well if given his chance and if he abandoned his Red God.

[New Frenco Empire]

Seriously, experience is probably the only thing Stannis really has over the others. Age everyone else up about fifteen or twenty years and you have many of Stannis' military skills with few of his charisma flaws.

Well, aside from the Targaryens, he also has the best claim to the throne, being Robert's only surviving brother. Also, whatever his flaws, I do still like Stannis. As the recent episode said,

When all is said and done, who at the moment has the best ability to role? Tommen or Myrcella, the incest-born bastards who are pawns to their elders? The Greyjoys don't even want the throne. Daenerys is a long way from Westeros, and she might not ever get home. All the other pretenders and claimants are dead or gone. All that is left is Stannis. And I think he might do well if given his chance and if he abandoned his Red God.

Aegon. Shady and inexperienced, but who am I to argue with Varys?

Anyways, I don't not like Stannis. He's a decent character, and I cheered him on as he reinforced the Night's Watch at the wall and drove the Greyjoys out of the North. I just don't understand the hype surrounding him. Yeah, he's a master strategist and Robert's true heir. Though, through Melisandre's POV, it's clear he isn't all that he's cracked up to be.

[Ceannairceach]

Well, aside from the Targaryens, he also has the best claim to the throne, being Robert's only surviving brother. Also, whatever his flaws, I do still like Stannis. As the recent episode said,

When all is said and done, who at the moment has the best ability to role? Tommen or Myrcella, the incest-born bastards who are pawns to their elders? The Greyjoys don't even want the throne. Daenerys is a long way from Westeros, and she might not ever get home. All the other pretenders and claimants are dead or gone. All that is left is Stannis. And I think he might do well if given his chance and if he abandoned his Red God.

Aegon. Shady and inexperienced, but who am I to argue with Varys?

Anyways, I don't not like Stannis. He's a decent character, and I cheered him on as he reinforced the Night's Watch at the wall and drove the Greyjoys out of the North. I just don't understand the hype surrounding him. Yeah, he's a master strategist and Robert's true heir. Though, through Melisandre's POV, it's clear he isn't all that he's cracked up to be.

Still debatable if the boy even is a Targaryen, but true. But again, I discount the Targaryens at the moment. Preferably I'd like to see one of them get on the throne.

I saw a great Reddit post about it a while back. Basically, despite his shit personality, he's a relatable guy across the bases. He had his birthright snatched from him not once, but twice, in the forms of the Stormlands and the Iron Throne, and he learned from that mistake. He's honorable in his own way, even if his honor is alien to most people. He is just despite being ruthless, with Davos being the clear evidence of that. He doesn't give up even when fighting against hopeless odds, and he refuses to admit defeat when he knows in his heart that he is in the right.

That isn't to say he's perfect, of course. Despite my favor of him, he's still a harsh, people-burning asshole. But he's easy to like despite his faults.

EDIT: Found it. Spoilers and hype inside, but I think it makes some good arguments for supporting Stannis.

[New Frenco Empire]

Aegon. Shady and inexperienced, but who am I to argue with Varys?

Anyways, I don't not like Stannis. He's a decent character, and I cheered him on as he reinforced the Night's Watch at the wall and drove the Greyjoys out of the North. I just don't understand the hype surrounding him. Yeah, he's a master strategist and Robert's true heir. Though, through Melisandre's POV, it's clear he isn't all that he's cracked up to be.

Still debatable if the boy even is a Targaryen, but true. But again, I discount the Targaryens at the moment. Preferably I'd like to see one of them get on the throne.

I saw a great Reddit post about it a while back. Basically, despite his shit personality, he's a relatable guy across the bases. He had his birthright snatched from him not once, but twice, in the forms of the Stormlands and the Iron Throne, and he learned from that mistake. He's honorable in his own way, even if his honor is alien to most people. He is just despite being ruthless, with Davos being the clear evidence of that. He doesn't give up even when fighting against hopeless odds, and he refuses to admit defeat when he knows in his heart that he is in the right.

That isn't to say he's perfect, of course. Despite my favor of him, he's still a harsh, people-burning asshole. But he's easy to like despite his faults.

EDIT: Found it. Spoilers and hype inside, but I think it makes some good arguments for supporting Stannis.

Is it wrong if the only thing that really stood out to me was the "For her vagina is dark and full of terrors..." comment about Melisandre?

[Ceannairceach]

Still debatable if the boy even is a Targaryen, but true. But again, I discount the Targaryens at the moment. Preferably I'd like to see one of them get on the throne.

I saw a great Reddit post about it a while back. Basically, despite his shit personality, he's a relatable guy across the bases. He had his birthright snatched from him not once, but twice, in the forms of the Stormlands and the Iron Throne, and he learned from that mistake. He's honorable in his own way, even if his honor is alien to most people. He is just despite being ruthless, with Davos being the clear evidence of that. He doesn't give up even when fighting against hopeless odds, and he refuses to admit defeat when he knows in his heart that he is in the right.

That isn't to say he's perfect, of course. Despite my favor of him, he's still a harsh, people-burning asshole. But he's easy to like despite his faults.

EDIT: Found it. Spoilers and hype inside, but I think it makes some good arguments for supporting Stannis.

Is it wrong if the only thing that really stood out to me was the "For her vagina is dark and full of terrors..." comment about Melisandre?

It IS the most accurate description of her powers

[Emilio Aguinaldo]

Is it wrong if the only thing that really stood out to me was the "For her vagina is dark and full of terrors..." comment about Melisandre?

It IS the most accurate description of her powers

Will not stick my dick in said orrifice.

[Valentir]

So I finished ADWD a couple of hours ago. My first thought is, Fuck Varys, and my second thought is, the Tyrell-Lannister Alliance is fucked. Meanwhile I don't know where George is going with Dany and Khal Jhaqo and I'm eager to see if Jon and Stannis have survived. Damn you Geroge and you damn cliff hangers!

[Zaereas]

So I finished ADWD a couple of hours ago. My first thought is, Fuck Varys, and my second thought is, the Tyrell-Lannister Alliance is fucked. Meanwhile I don't know where George is going with Dany and Khal Jhaqo and I'm eager to see if Jon and Stannis have survived. Damn you Geroge and you damn cliff hangers!

If you read the TWOW excerpt, you would see that Stannis is still alive with Theon.

[Valentir]

So I finished ADWD a couple of hours ago. My first thought is, Fuck Varys, and my second thought is, the Tyrell-Lannister Alliance is fucked. Meanwhile I don't know where George is going with Dany and Khal Jhaqo and I'm eager to see if Jon and Stannis have survived. Damn you Geroge and you damn cliff hangers!

If you read the TWOW excerpt, you would see that Stannis is still alive with Theon.

Really? Oh hallelujah!

[Dzwergar]

So I finished ADWD a couple of hours ago. My first thought is, Fuck Varys, and my second thought is, the Tyrell-Lannister Alliance is fucked. Meanwhile I don't know where George is going with Dany and Khal Jhaqo and I'm eager to see if Jon and Stannis have survived. Damn you Geroge and you damn cliff hangers!

Here is my two cents on Dany/Jhago meeting:
Dany forces at that point consist of:
- Unsullied: THE BEST heavy infantry there is in this universe
- light (in armor, not arms) cavalry based around Stormcrows
- heavy cavalry in from of squires trained by Barristan Selmy
- light(er) infantry in form of 3 companies of freeman - they are probably trained in fighting style similar to Unsullied, but I doubt they have similar armour and they certainly don't have similar skills , meaning to me that freeman would be (as at ADWD time) good/decent defence but poor ofence
- dragons: one semi-controlable, 2 not controlable.
If, and it's BIG if, Jhago will join forces with Dany, she will have REAL light cavalry on her side - Dothraki are based on steppe horse archers, who were the best raiding/harassing units till modern age (I would say it was breachloading rifles that ended they era on Earth).
And if Jhago forces joins her army the only thing she lacks to start reconquesting Westeros is fleet.

[New Frenco Empire]

So I finished ADWD a couple of hours ago. My first thought is, Fuck Varys, and my second thought is, the Tyrell-Lannister Alliance is fucked. Meanwhile I don't know where George is going with Dany and Khal Jhaqo and I'm eager to see if Jon and Stannis have survived. Damn you Geroge and you damn cliff hangers!

Here is my two cents on Dany/Jhago meeting:
Dany forces at that point consist of:
- Unsullied: THE BEST heavy infantry there is in this universe
- light (in armor, not arms) cavalry based around Stormcrows
- heavy cavalry in from of squires trained by Barristan Selmy
- light(er) infantry in form of 3 companies of freeman - they are probably trained in fighting style similar to Unsullied, but I doubt they have similar armour and they certainly don't have similar skills , meaning to me that freeman would be (as at ADWD time) good/decent defence but poor ofence
- dragons: one semi-controlable, 2 not controlable.
If, and it's BIG if, Jhago will join forces with Dany, she will have REAL light cavalry on her side - Dothraki are based on steppe horse archers, who were the best raiding/harassing units till modern age (I would say it was breachloading rifles that ended they era on Earth).
And if Jhago forces joins her army the only thing she lacks to start reconquesting Westeros is fleet.

Victarion and the Iron Fleet are in Meereen's bay. For all that's implied, those ships are there to take her back.

[Ceannairceach]

Here is my two cents on Dany/Jhago meeting:
Dany forces at that point consist of:
- Unsullied: THE BEST heavy infantry there is in this universe
- light (in armor, not arms) cavalry based around Stormcrows
- heavy cavalry in from of squires trained by Barristan Selmy
- light(er) infantry in form of 3 companies of freeman - they are probably trained in fighting style similar to Unsullied, but I doubt they have similar armour and they certainly don't have similar skills , meaning to me that freeman would be (as at ADWD time) good/decent defence but poor ofence
- dragons: one semi-controlable, 2 not controlable.
If, and it's BIG if, Jhago will join forces with Dany, she will have REAL light cavalry on her side - Dothraki are based on steppe horse archers, who were the best raiding/harassing units till modern age (I would say it was breachloading rifles that ended they era on Earth).
And if Jhago forces joins her army the only thing she lacks to start reconquesting Westeros is fleet.

Victarion and the Iron Fleet are in Meereen's bay. For all that's implied, those ships are there to take her back.

For all that's implied, they're there to take her. They want her as a tool for Ironborn supremacy in the name of Victarion, not for Dany's claim.

[New Frenco Empire]

Victarion and the Iron Fleet are in Meereen's bay. For all that's implied, those ships are there to take her back.

For all that's implied, they're there to take her. They want her as a tool for Ironborn supremacy in the name of Victarion, not for Dany's claim.

Moqorro's there, and like all other red priests, he seems to view Dany as a chosen one. He was sent to lend her the red god's support, matter of fact. Considering his influence on Victarion, it just might turn into the fleet she needs as opposed to a bunch of Ironborn who came to take her.

[Ceannairceach]

For all that's implied, they're there to take her. They want her as a tool for Ironborn supremacy in the name of Victarion, not for Dany's claim.

Moqorro's there, and like all other red priests, he seems to view Dany as a chosen one. He was sent to lend her the red god's support, matter of fact. Considering his influence on Victarion, it just might turn into the fleet she needs as opposed to a bunch of Ironborn who came to take her.

Meh, it'd be quite the fortunate turn of events for her if that happened. If she managed to prove herself a capable war leader to Victarion and win the respect of the Ironborn, perhaps with the promise of helping him pay the iron price for the Iron Islands, it's possible that they'll declare for her.

[New Frenco Empire]

Moqorro's there, and like all other red priests, he seems to view Dany as a chosen one. He was sent to lend her the red god's support, matter of fact. Considering his influence on Victarion, it just might turn into the fleet she needs as opposed to a bunch of Ironborn who came to take her.

Meh, it'd be quite the fortunate turn of events for her if that happened. If she managed to prove herself a capable war leader to Victarion and win the respect of the Ironborn, perhaps with the promise of helping him pay the iron price for the Iron Islands, it's possible that they'll declare for her.

It's all speculation, but it just seems all too convenient for me. The only thing that prevented her from going home was a fleet and Meereen. Now, she has several Meereenese councilors that have proven they are trustworthy (like the Shavepate). She can easily find someone to manage her free city while she sails to Westeros. As for the fleet...the largest fleet in all of Westeros just sailed right into Meereen. Eyes on her. GRRM's good with plot twists, but this just seems a bit...fortunate. Of course, it could be too good to be true, but still. Guess we wait for TWOW.

[Ceannairceach]

Meh, it'd be quite the fortunate turn of events for her if that happened. If she managed to prove herself a capable war leader to Victarion and win the respect of the Ironborn, perhaps with the promise of helping him pay the iron price for the Iron Islands, it's possible that they'll declare for her.

It's all speculation, but it just seems all too convenient for me. The only thing that prevented her from going home was a fleet and Meereen. Now, she has several Meereenese councilors that have proven they are trustworthy (like the Shavepate). She can easily find someone to manage her free city while she sails to Westeros. As for the fleet...the largest fleet in all of Westeros just sailed right into Meereen. Eyes on her. GRRM's good with plot twists, but this just seems a bit...fortunate. Of course, it could be too good to be true, but still. Guess we wait for TWOW.

Well, while Victarion does command the Iron Fleet, Euron is the Iron King still. Presumably most are loyal to him, not Victarion. And the ships are still crewed, meaning that transporting an army would be hella difficult. As for governing Meereen, we saw what happened in Astapor; the rulers she placed in charge were overthrown, and replaced first with a tyrant king, and then with slavers once more. Without Dany to keep things under control, or the removal of the other slaving states, it isn't likely that Meereen will remain free.