ASoIAF/Game of Thrones general Discussion Thread

[Infected Mushroom]

This is essentially the war at this stage

Black: Targaryen/North
Red: Lannister
Grey: Neutral/effectively out of the war

And you can pretty much discount Dorne and the Iron Islands at this stage too, i would be very surprised if any Dornish Soldiers showed up for the attack on Kings Landing, or if Yara showed up again.

It will be a mix of Vale/Northern and Unsullied/Dothraki vs Lannisters/Iron Fleet/Golden Company

Don't the Lannisters control the Reach too?

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Do you guys remember when we got incredible and realistic battle scenes with inspiring heroes like Stannis and Robb?

I miss those days.

No, not really.

[The Huskar Social Union]

This is essentially the war at this stage

Black: Targaryen/North
Red: Lannister
Grey: Neutral/effectively out of the war

And you can pretty much discount Dorne and the Iron Islands at this stage too, i would be very surprised if any Dornish Soldiers showed up for the attack on Kings Landing, or if Yara showed up again.

It will be a mix of Vale/Northern and Unsullied/Dothraki vs Lannisters/Iron Fleet/Golden Company

Don't the Lannisters control the Reach too?

Not really considering the last army they had there died as they were pulling back to kings landing after having abandoned the westerlands.

[Baltenstein]

This is essentially the war at this stage

I am going to assume that Dany's land army annexed/liberated the Riverlands on their way down to KL so they are Dany's clay now too.

Edmure is, of course, still rotting in his dungeon cell.

[The Huskar Social Union]

This is essentially the war at this stage

I am going to assume that Dany's land army annexed/liberated the Riverlands on their way down to KL so they are Dany's clay now too.

Edmure is, of course, still rotting in his dungeon cell.

Poor Edmure, man has not been able to get a break.

[Fedel]

Do you guys remember when we got incredible and realistic battle scenes with inspiring heroes like Stannis and Robb?

I miss those days.

No, not really.

I mean, they weren't women, how could they possibly be inspiring when their depiction only served to further strengthen the patriarchy? :>

[Baltenstein]

I am going to assume that Dany's land army annexed/liberated the Riverlands on their way down to KL so they are Dany's clay now too.

Edmure is, of course, still rotting in his dungeon cell.

Poor Edmure, man has not been able to get a break.

I'm thinking about a scene that plays out something lke this:

*Jon and the Northern/Dany army camping at the mostly-deserted Twins*

Jon: "This is where it happened. This is where Robb Stark was betrayed by his bannermen and died. This is where the Lady Catelyn died. This is where her brother Edmure-"
*Dawning realization*
"Seven Hells, Edmure!"
*Rushes to the dungeons cells, swings the cell door open*
"Lord Edmure Tully, in the name of Queen Daenerys Targaryen, we have come to fre-"
*Loud fly noises*
"Um...eh...nevermind."
*Closes cell door again"

[The Huskar Social Union]

Just realising, Daenerys never had her own queensguard formed.

Poor Edmure, man has not been able to get a break.

I'm thinking about a scene that plays out something lke this:

*Jon and the Northern/Dany army camping at the mostly-deserted Twins*

Jon: "This is where it happened. This is where Robb Stark was betrayed by his bannermen and died. This is where the Lady Catelyn died. This is where her brother Edmure-"
*Dawning realization*
"Seven Hells, Edmure!"
*Rushes to the dungeons cells, swings the cell door open*
"Lord Edmure Tully, in the name of Queen Daenerys Targaryen, we have come to fre-"
*Loud fly noises*
"Um...eh...nevermind."
*Closes cell door again"

He will show up and be run down by a fucking horse or something most likely

[Andsed]

Do you guys remember when we got incredible and realistic battle scenes with inspiring heroes like Stannis and Robb?

I miss those days.

Same. Back when armies did not fucking jump around with no explanation and we actually saw competent planning and logistics.

[Tarsonis]

Just realising, Daenerys never had her own queensguard formed.

I'm thinking about a scene that plays out something lke this:

*Jon and the Northern/Dany army camping at the mostly-deserted Twins*

Jon: "This is where it happened. This is where Robb Stark was betrayed by his bannermen and died. This is where the Lady Catelyn died. This is where her brother Edmure-"
*Dawning realization*
"Seven Hells, Edmure!"
*Rushes to the dungeons cells, swings the cell door open*
"Lord Edmure Tully, in the name of Queen Daenerys Targaryen, we have come to fre-"
*Loud fly noises*
"Um...eh...nevermind."
*Closes cell door again"

He will show up and be run down by a fucking horse or something most likely

She has dragon(s)

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Poor Edmure, man has not been able to get a break.

I'm thinking about a scene that plays out something lke this:

*Jon and the Northern/Dany army camping at the mostly-deserted Twins*

Jon: "This is where it happened. This is where Robb Stark was betrayed by his bannermen and died. This is where the Lady Catelyn died. This is where her brother Edmure-"
*Dawning realization*
"Seven Hells, Edmure!"
*Rushes to the dungeons cells, swings the cell door open*
"Lord Edmure Tully, in the name of Queen Daenerys Targaryen, we have come to fre-"
*Loud fly noises*
"Um...eh...nevermind."
*Closes cell door again"

Maybe he got out and he's been sat munching on Freys ever since.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Just realising, Daenerys never had her own queensguard formed.

He will show up and be run down by a fucking horse or something most likely

She has dragon(s)

yeah but fancy knight bois tho

[The Huskar Social Union]

I'm thinking about a scene that plays out something lke this:

*Jon and the Northern/Dany army camping at the mostly-deserted Twins*

Jon: "This is where it happened. This is where Robb Stark was betrayed by his bannermen and died. This is where the Lady Catelyn died. This is where her brother Edmure-"
*Dawning realization*
"Seven Hells, Edmure!"
*Rushes to the dungeons cells, swings the cell door open*
"Lord Edmure Tully, in the name of Queen Daenerys Targaryen, we have come to fre-"
*Loud fly noises*
"Um...eh...nevermind."
*Closes cell door again"

Maybe he got out and he's been sat munching on Freys ever since.

*Stark soldiers open up the doors of The Twins and see Edmure hunched over a dozen dead roasted bodies, blood dripping from his mouth and just slooooooowly back out*

[Des-Bal]

that's now how wars are fought in those days

a king/queen must take their crown, which means big decisive battles

its how respect was earned

Danny is a product of her time, going straight for the capital and not waiting was the way to go

That is not true in any way shape or form. It's not true of history and it's exactly the kind of thing the show and books spent great lengths demonstrating as false. I do not understand how you are a fan of the show, and yet have the exact wrong impression about what it's about. You don't need a decisive battle. In the war of the 5 Kings 4 of the titular kings were assassinated and while Stannis died as a result of a decisive battle that wasn't even slightly necessary to take him down.

I mean for fucks sake you're talking about how the characters wouldn't think to be cunning or strategic in the show whose entire selling point is the cunning and strategy of the characters.

Someone posted a vid on it a while back, but she actually hurt herself by paying her debt back to the Iron Bank. So long as she still had an outstanding ledger, and a considerable one at that, the Iron Bank had a vested interest in her success in order to recoup the amount owed. If she dies they have to right it off as a loss, so they’d be inclined to sink more money into her campaign son that they can collect on her after her victory. However, she paid back the debt in full. Now the Bank is free to play both sides, and back who they think will be a better customer in the long run.

I thought she paid off the debt in order to secure a new line of credit but now that you mention it she did it just so they'd stop fucking the economy didn't she?

[Des-Bal]

Again, budget limitations

There were clearly Vale troops at Winterfell vs the Dead even though no Vale troops or riders were shown.

The show abandoned literalism a long time ago.

You use budget limitations as an excuse for the most ridiculous things. The budget didn't keep them from putting ballista on the rear of Euron's ships and it didn't prevent them from putting a flower on some shields.

[Baltenstein]

The way I understood Cersei's financial dealings is that she took the Tyrell gold to pay off the Crown's old debts, then took out a new loan to hire the GC.

Which I guess makes sense from the Iron Bank's position, after all a bank wants to keep you as their debtor permanently.

[Baltenstein]

Again, budget limitations

There were clearly Vale troops at Winterfell vs the Dead even though no Vale troops or riders were shown.

The show abandoned literalism a long time ago.

You use budget limitations as an excuse for the most ridiculous things. The budget didn't keep them from putting ballista on the rear of Euron's ships and it didn't prevent them from putting a flower on some shields.

Truth be told, there were Vale infantrymen clearly visible at battle against the dead.
The bigger question is where their heavy cav was. Unlike the Dothraki, having heavily-armored knights crash frontally into an enemy horde actually makes military sense.
Also, Lord Royce was strangely absent as well.

[The Huskar Social Union]

You use budget limitations as an excuse for the most ridiculous things. The budget didn't keep them from putting ballista on the rear of Euron's ships and it didn't prevent them from putting a flower on some shields.

Truth be told, there were Vale infantrymen clearly visible at the Battle against the dead.
The bigger question is where their heavy cav was. Unlike the Dothraki, having heavily-armored knights crash frontally into an enemy horde actually makes military sense.
Also, Lord Royce was strangely absent as well.

Yeah i literally posted a picture of them behind Jaime and Brienne.

Funny enough he didnt respond to that.

Alos yeah where the fuck was the vale heavy cavalry?

[Des-Bal]

Truth be told, there were Vale infantrymen clearly visible at battle against the dead.
The bigger question is where their heavy cav was. Unlike the Dothraki, having heavily-armored knights crash frontally into an enemy horde actually makes military sense.
Also, Lord Royce was strangely absent as well.

I was talking about the absence of the Reachmen not the alleged absence of Valemen. The reason we didn't see any soldiers from the reach isn't because flowers would blow the budget it's because when Highgarden fell the Reach backed off.

Actually it still doesn't make sense, the enemy has no morale concerns and will not be deterred from advancing, they were way too thick to punch through with a charge. The wights would surround the riders and neutralize their advantage regardless of their gear. Slamming into them from the flanks and pressing them into the unsullied would have made better sense regardless of the cavalry composition. It was for the sake of a cool shot but it was really, really dumb.

[Ism]

You use budget limitations as an excuse for the most ridiculous things. The budget didn't keep them from putting ballista on the rear of Euron's ships and it didn't prevent them from putting a flower on some shields.

Truth be told, there were Vale infantrymen clearly visible at battle against the dead.
The bigger question is where their heavy cav was. Unlike the Dothraki, having heavily-armored knights crash frontally into an enemy horde actually makes military sense.
Also, Lord Royce was strangely absent as well.

It makes more sense at least. Headlong cavalry charges really only make sense against an enemy that can be forced to route or otherwise break formation. The Army of the Dead doesn't qualify. Of course, another big factor that makes a cavalry charge problematic here is that unless your horses have dragonglass horseshoes, trampling wights isn't going to be all that useful. At best you make them slightly less dangerous, but you won't actually kill them without a direct hit from the rider.

[Des-Bal]

Yeah i literally posted a picture of them behind Jaime and Brienne.

Funny enough he didnt respond to that.

Alos yeah where the fuck was the vale heavy cavalry?

Someone told them to charge directly into the thrust of the undead horde with no support and they all went home.

[Ism]

Yeah i literally posted a picture of them behind Jaime and Brienne.

Funny enough he didnt respond to that.

Alos yeah where the fuck was the vale heavy cavalry?

Someone told them to charge directly into the thrust of the undead horde with no support and they all went home.

[Ism]

Something that might have made a cavalry charge less awful would have been to let the horde coalesce around Winterfell and then hit them from behind with Vale knights and have Dothraki horse archers harass them on the side(s), ideally drawing the attention of the horde from the knights/Winterfell. But I guess combined arms tactics are a no no.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Honestly they still could have gotten that dramatic and cool shot of the fiery swords going out but not make it look as stupid. As others have said, have the dothraki hit the undead in the flanks when they charge the infantry in front of the walls at winterfell. Have them carve through a large swath of the undead and get the audience thinking "Hey they are doing pretty good so far!" Then BAM, second wave of undead swamps the dothraki from behind and the first wave turns around and hits them before they can clear out and most of them get slaughtered between the two waves and the infantry cant support them.

Maybe the dragons are able to clear a path for some of them to escape for use in later episodes but a lot of them dont make it out and they get massacred outside the castle. In effect its the same scene, just... not as stupid when you think about it and the dothraki do something before they die. Its a decent tactical decision but goes poorly anyway and delivers the same demoralising effect.

[Ethel mermania]

Just realising, Daenerys never had her own queensguard formed.

I'm thinking about a scene that plays out something lke this:

*Jon and the Northern/Dany army camping at the mostly-deserted Twins*

Jon: "This is where it happened. This is where Robb Stark was betrayed by his bannermen and died. This is where the Lady Catelyn died. This is where her brother Edmure-"
*Dawning realization*
"Seven Hells, Edmure!"
*Rushes to the dungeons cells, swings the cell door open*
"Lord Edmure Tully, in the name of Queen Daenerys Targaryen, we have come to fre-"
*Loud fly noises*
"Um...eh...nevermind."
*Closes cell door again"

He will show up and be run down by a fucking horse or something most likely

I bet he will not even zig - zag.