ASoIAF/Game of Thrones general Discussion Thread

[Des-Bal]

I think its just a case of the budget not being able to accommodate weapons on both sides, but them obviously existing in the writing of the scene

Budget limitations HAVE constrained what is shown at other points. For example, Stannis clearly had WAY MORE than the actual number of troops shown at the final Winterfell battle. If you did the math, even with all the desertion he'd still have thousands of soldiers left (there weren't even one thousand soldiers credibly shown... again, BUDGET).

However, in the writing of the scene he was clearly intended to be standing there with a few thousand soldiers.

But you wouldn't say: "Hey they didn't show thousands of soldiers, therefore Stannis lost the battle with only at most 100 soldiers left."

Here, I'd say its the same sort of thing.

Then they wasted their fucking budget. Nobody bitched about Stannis because they showed a number of soldiers and were prepared to extrapolate, they didn't take thousands of soldiers but only put armor on the right side of their bodies. That would have been ridiculous. You cannot show a ship with a ballista ONLY and PROMINENTLY on the front and then just assume everyone will trust there was an invisible one on the back.

[The Huskar Social Union]

No they didnt, you can see it in that image. They had no ballistas on the back of the ships.

And a dragon is gona be faster than a bunch of ships between two pieces of land, we already saw how fast those things are in comparison to ships at the battle of Mereen where they utterly annihilated the Slaver fleets.

I think its just a case of the budget not being able to accommodate weapons on both sides, but them obviously existing in the writing of the scene

Budget limitations HAVE constrained what is shown at other points. For example, Stannis clearly had WAY MORE than the actual number of troops shown at the final Winterfell battle. If you did the math, even with all the desertion he'd still have thousands of soldiers left (there weren't even one thousand soldiers credibly shown... again, BUDGET).

However, in the writing of the scene he was clearly intended to be standing there with a few thousand soldiers.

But you wouldn't say: "Hey they didn't show thousands of soldiers, therefore Stannis lost the battle with only at most 100 soldiers left."

Here, I'd say its the same sort of thing.

What the heck do you mean obviously existing in the writing of the scene? You can clearly see there are no fucking ballistas on the back of the ships.

The fact of the scene is that squadron of iron ships were only capable of attacking the dragons from the front, they had no room to manuevre (how ever the fuck you spell that word) properly as they were between two pieces of land, they were exposed and ripe for a flanking attack where they would have been destroyed.

Also budget? Really? You think budget is why they couldnt stick an extra ballista on the back of a ship? The same ship model they use for ever greyjoy ship except eurons? Really?

And no Stannis did not have WAY MORE men than the actual number of troops in his attack on winterfell, that was how many he had. He had 1300 infantry left, and all of those infantry were there, all of his other soldiers deserted him.

its not because of budget, its not because of "Oh they were really there tho because writing" its they were not there at the back of the ships, you cant assume otherwise when you can clearly see the back of his vessels and that they have no weapons there. Its that simple.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Will say tho the sequence where the greyjoy ships open up on the targaryen ships was fucking cool. Especially when that one ship just got fucking obliterated by the ballista rounds, that was neat.

And the first euron attack on Yaras fleet last season was fucking cool

[Ifreann]

I can't even.

I mean, I can think of three or four "logical" explanations, but the real one is because fiction isn't a logic puzzle and good writing isn't necessarily that which involves unimpeachable in-universe decision-making.

I didn't think this was a particularly good episode (although a lot of it's setup so I hesitate to make too much of a judgement till we see the payoff), but fixing all these little issues you lot have isn't going to noticeably improve it.

Would make parts of it less fucking stupid tho.

"Danaerys would have won if she'd just done this" is the wrong way to go about it. The plot calls for her to lose, for Rhaegal to die, and for Missandei to be captured. The question is how to execute that without "teleporting stealth fleet with dragon-seeking homing ballistae".

---

Obviously he'd teleport the ships around 180 degrees to keep his ballista snipers on-target.

Euron's crews were written to be extremely skilled. They definitely would have been prepped for what to do if Danny did the aerial manoeuvre. They could have turned their ships in time because they have exceptional commanders.

Either that or they also had ballistas in the back but the budget wasn't high enough to show them (but in D and D's scripts they were assumed to have them on both sides).

You get that those weren't real ships, yeah? The cost of putting another prop ballista on the stern of a deck on a greenscreen stage would have been trivial.

[Des-Bal]

Will say tho the sequence where the greyjoy ships open up on the targaryen ships was fucking cool. Especially when that one ship just got fucking obliterated by the ballista rounds, that was neat.

And the first euron attack on Yaras fleet last season was fucking cool

It was all cool. A dragon being ripped apart by big ass crossbows is cool. A fleet being destroyed by ballista is cool. Euron's night time attack, illuminated by the fires of the burning allied fleet was pretty cool. The parley was pretty cool. The problem isn't that the writers can't put together cool moments- just the opposite, the problem is it's all they can do. They can't set up a scene, they can't have a scene make logical sense, it's 100% spectacle and that's such a bummer because of how important pacing, logic, and set up used to be.

Consider the red wedding: it's a great scene but it's also beautfiully set up. It's cool for people to get murdered at a wedding but it's great to know that guest right matters and that these people are protected, that Walder Frey is petty, that Tywin Lannister is cunning, that Roose Bolton is sketchy, and that someone wearing armor at a wedding doesn't make sense it blends together and whether you're looking forward or backward it's a satisfying experience.

Also: compare the Frey pies from the book and show. In the book the scene works because we've taken time to establish Wyman Manderly is competent and burning with rage at the murder of his family, the absurd lies of the Freys, and the violation of guestright. GRRM has taken time to lay out how guestright works, how the character feels, and the significance of the Rat Cook so when Manderly mentions having given the Freys they're guest gifts and having not seen them since he is obliquely but honestly describing exactly what he did and then joyfully indulging in cannibalism while forcing his enemies to do the same. It's a great scene because everything that's happening makes sense and it was set up beforehand. In the show Arya wears some girl face says "yeah they're in the pie, see a toenail. Stab stab."

[The Huskar Social Union]

Would make parts of it less fucking stupid tho.

"Danaerys would have won if she'd just done this" is the wrong way to go about it. The plot calls for her to lose, for Rhaegal to die, and for Missandei to be captured. The question is how to execute that without "teleporting stealth fleet with dragon-seeking homing ballistae".

Yeah and i agree with thatr as well. This sequence could have been done a lot better.

[Ifreann]

"Danaerys would have won if she'd just done this" is the wrong way to go about it. The plot calls for her to lose, for Rhaegal to die, and for Missandei to be captured. The question is how to execute that without "teleporting stealth fleet with dragon-seeking homing ballistae".

Yeah and i agree with thatr as well. This sequence could have been done a lot better.

And it seems to me that the simplest way to do that is to just have the Iron Fleet attack normally. They don't appear from behind an island, they just come over the horizon. The dragons go to attack them and Rhaegal gets shot down. To get Missandei captured...maybe one of the ships falls back to delay the Iron Fleet and make sure the rest can escape.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Yeah and i agree with thatr as well. This sequence could have been done a lot better.

And it seems to me that the simplest way to do that is to just have the Iron Fleet attack normally. They don't appear from behind an island, they just come over the horizon. The dragons go to attack them and Rhaegal gets shot down. To get Missandei captured...maybe one of the ships falls back to delay the Iron Fleet and make sure the rest can escape.

They could have had Eurons ships appear normally on the horizon to attack, with a second fleet hidden behind them or near an island which are armed with the ballistas so when the dragons come in for an attack they get hit in the flanks by the second fleet which take out rhaegal that way or something. Basically set a trap or something.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Or how about this

Say Rhaegal is in such a bad state that he cant fly regularly or often, so Daenerys has to have some of her ships modified and basically turned into a barge to allow him to rest at times on her journey towards dragonstone. This would more than likely slow down her fleet as they have a vulnerable hurt dragon to cover as it rests on these ships.

Then the fleet could get attacked near the coast by the Iron fleet, say at night when the ships are moving slowly as the dragon as is resting on the barge and they had been spotted by a scout on the coastline or even a smaller ironborn scout ship. And as the targaryen fleet (with drogons support) turns to deal with the Iron Fleet, Euron attacks with a smaller fleet of ships and notices the dragon on the barge, then opens up and thats how Rhaegal is killed.

Its on this barge, not able to move properly and just gets riddled with ballista and catapult rounds by Eurons flagship and its escorts, the dragon gets killed when its at its most vulnerable, isolated from its sibling and mother and its on the "ground", not in the air where it would be at its most effective. So say Dany defeats the main iron fleet, its a hollow victory as she lost her other dragon and euron escapes, or say she goes after him and torches his own ship after he tries to take her out as well but he gets away by being picked up by another ship as the ballista's force her off, so both sides are bloodied by the encounter.

THis to me would feel a bit more logical. Euron uses the night and environment to his advantage, separates the bulk of his enemies from a target then takes it out, showing his skill as a naval commander instead of just showing up and gunning it down in the sky. But almost gets killed due to being cocky or arrogant.

Im not a writer, so you know might not work as i envision it but it sounds more plausible and likely imo. Daenerys loses a dragon and becomes more wary of using her last one, but does some damage of her own. Its still a shock but doesnt happen because of magical teleporting romulan greyjoy fleet.

[Tarsonis]

Will say tho the sequence where the greyjoy ships open up on the targaryen ships was fucking cool. Especially when that one ship just got fucking obliterated by the ballista rounds, that was neat.

And the first euron attack on Yaras fleet last season was fucking cool

It was all cool. A dragon being ripped apart by big ass crossbows is cool. A fleet being destroyed by ballista is cool. Euron's night time attack, illuminated by the fires of the burning allied fleet was pretty cool. The parley was pretty cool. The problem isn't that the writers can't put together cool moments- just the opposite, the problem is it's all they can do. They can't set up a scene, they can't have a scene make logical sense, it's 100% spectacle and that's such a bummer because of how important pacing, logic, and set up used to be.

Consider the red wedding: it's a great scene but it's also beautfiully set up. It's cool for people to get murdered at a wedding but it's great to know that guest right matters and that these people are protected, that Walder Frey is petty, that Tywin Lannister is cunning, that Roose Bolton is sketchy, and that someone wearing armor at a wedding doesn't make sense it blends together and whether you're looking forward or backward it's a satisfying experience.

Also: compare the Frey pies from the book and show. In the book the scene works because we've taken time to establish Wyman Manderly is competent and burning with rage at the murder of his family, the absurd lies of the Freys, and the violation of guestright. GRRM has taken time to lay out how guestright works, how the character feels, and the significance of the Rat Cook so when Manderly mentions having given the Freys they're guest gifts and having not seen them since he is obliquely but honestly describing exactly what he did and then joyfully indulging in cannibalism while forcing his enemies to do the same. It's a great scene because everything that's happening makes sense and it was set up beforehand. In the show Arya wears some girl face says "yeah they're in the pie, see a toenail. Stab stab."

You make a number of great points, but I'm gonna disagree on the subject of Euron. Euron has long been set up as a master tactician, sailor, and above all things, a pirate. The sudden attacks from the Greyjoy fleet do make sense from that angle, when you consider that historically pirates preferred sneak attacks and ambushes rather than traditional engagements The Night attack makes sense, you douse the lights and creep up on the other fleet in the dark. You don't light torches until your fleet is already upon them and there's nothing they can do. With the assassination of Rheagon, they were heading back to Dragonstone, Dany's established base of operations. They knew she would come back there and were lying in wait. With regards to not seeing them, it's a perfectly plausible situation considering their state of mind. They're not expecting an engagement, they're not read to fight, they're in sight of Dragonstone so they think they're in a position of relative safety, but surprise muthafucker you waint. It makes plenty of sense.

[Des-Bal]

I feel like it's important to differentiate this from griping about tactics. The Battle for Winterfell was also really stupid. The way they used their cavalry and organized their defenses was nonsense but they didn't present the audience with glaringly obvious ways for the protagonist to quickly win or rely on things happening effortlessly and out of nowhere so that mostly gets a pass. There are exceptions, like Arya turning into superman for a second and defeating the Night King with the ultimate asassin's technique of having two hand but those are also the only parts that are really catching flak.

[The Huskar Social Union]

You messed up your spoiler post, you have a /quote one at the end.

[Des-Bal]

You make a number of great points, but I'm gonna disagree on the subject of Euron. Euron has long been set up as a master tactician, sailor, and above all things, a pirate. The sudden attacks from the Greyjoy fleet do make sense from that angle, when you consider that historically pirates preferred sneak attacks and ambushes rather than traditional engagements The Night attack makes sense, you douse the lights and creep up on the other fleet in the dark. You don't light torches until your fleet is already upon them and there's nothing they can do. With the assassination of Rheagon, they were heading back to Dragonstone, Dany's established base of operations. They knew she would come back there and were lying in wait. With regards to not seeing them, it's a perfectly plausible situation considering their state of mind. They're not expecting an engagement, they're not read to fight, they're in sight of Dragonstone so they think they're in a position of relative safety, but surprise muthafucker you waint. It makes plenty of sense.

Many characters are set up as great tacticians. Stannis is known by reputation and onscreen actions to be frighteningly determined and to bring to bear powerful forces with traditional tactics bolstered by a willingness to do whatever was necessary to win. We're shown Tywin is a strong military leader and that he supplements this by being an accomplished diplomat preying on his enemies mis-steps and pacifying their potential allies. Tyrion thinks outside the box and through extensive study, extensive planning, and extensive preparation attacks in a way the enemy just isn't prepared for. What does Euron do? He attacks from offscreen. That's his power, he starts his attacks offscreen surprising the audience so they don't question how things happened.

Give me a scene of Euron muffling oarlocks and dousing lights, drilling his men to row at a grueling pace to strike suddenly and without warning, skulking around rocky crags that other captains would write off as impassable.

You messed up your spoiler post, you have a /quote one at the end.

No I didn't, shut up.

[The Huskar Social Union]

You make a number of great points, but I'm gonna disagree on the subject of Euron. Euron has long been set up as a master tactician, sailor, and above all things, a pirate. The sudden attacks from the Greyjoy fleet do make sense from that angle, when you consider that historically pirates preferred sneak attacks and ambushes rather than traditional engagements The Night attack makes sense, you douse the lights and creep up on the other fleet in the dark. You don't light torches until your fleet is already upon them and there's nothing they can do. With the assassination of Rheagon, they were heading back to Dragonstone, Dany's established base of operations. They knew she would come back there and were lying in wait. With regards to not seeing them, it's a perfectly plausible situation considering their state of mind. They're not expecting an engagement, they're not read to fight, they're in sight of Dragonstone so they think they're in a position of relative safety, but surprise muthafucker you waint. It makes plenty of sense.

Many characters are set up as great tacticians. Stannis is known by reputation and onscreen actions to be frighteningly determined and to bring to bear powerful forces with traditional tactics bolstered by a willingness to do whatever was necessary to win. We're shown Tywin is a strong military leader and that he supplements this by being an accomplished diplomat preying on his enemies mis-steps and pacifying their potential allies. Tyrion thinks outside the box and through extensive study, extensive planning, and extensive preparation attacks in a way the enemy just isn't prepared for. What does Euron do? He attacks from offscreen. That's his power, he starts his attacks offscreen surprising the audience so they don't question how things happened.

Give me a scene of Euron muffling oarlocks and dousing lights, drilling his men to row at a grueling pace to strike suddenly and without warning, skulking around rocky crags that other captains would write off as impassable.

You messed up your spoiler post, you have a /quote one at the end.

No I didn't, shut up.

I. SEE. ALL.

[Ethel mermania]

Euron's crews were written to be extremely skilled. They definitely would have been prepped for what to do if Danny did the aerial manoeuvre. They could have turned their ships in time because they have exceptional commanders.

Either that or they also had ballistas in the back but the budget wasn't high enough to show them (but in D and D's scripts they were assumed to have them on both sides).

Crazy Ivans are a thing

indeed they are, but not at 8 knots 2 dimensional(boat). Vs. 60 knots 3 dimensional (dragon)

At this point with that piss poor send off of ghost. I am on team Cersei. Although. Why she didnt kill everyone with those laser targeting Ballista's during the parley, I have no idea.

[Tarsonis]

You make a number of great points, but I'm gonna disagree on the subject of Euron. Euron has long been set up as a master tactician, sailor, and above all things, a pirate. The sudden attacks from the Greyjoy fleet do make sense from that angle, when you consider that historically pirates preferred sneak attacks and ambushes rather than traditional engagements The Night attack makes sense, you douse the lights and creep up on the other fleet in the dark. You don't light torches until your fleet is already upon them and there's nothing they can do. With the assassination of Rheagon, they were heading back to Dragonstone, Dany's established base of operations. They knew she would come back there and were lying in wait. With regards to not seeing them, it's a perfectly plausible situation considering their state of mind. They're not expecting an engagement, they're not read to fight, they're in sight of Dragonstone so they think they're in a position of relative safety, but surprise muthafucker you waint. It makes plenty of sense.

Many characters are set up as great tacticians. Stannis is known by reputation and onscreen actions to be frighteningly determined and to bring to bear powerful forces with traditional tactics bolstered by a willingness to do whatever was necessary to win. We're shown Tywin is a strong military leader and that he supplements this by being an accomplished diplomat preying on his enemies mis-steps and pacifying their potential allies. Tyrion thinks outside the box and through extensive study, extensive planning, and extensive preparation attacks in a way the enemy just isn't prepared for. What does Euron do? He attacks from offscreen. That's his power, he starts his attacks offscreen surprising the audience so they don't question how things happened.

Give me a scene of Euron muffling oarlocks and dousing lights, drilling his men to row at a grueling pace to strike suddenly and without warning, skulking around rocky crags that other captains would write off as impassable.

Euron could have potentially been built up a bit more, with the time cuts imposed by HBO I imagine those scenes are on the cutting room floor somewhere. But even with out them, it's not really necessary. He attacks from off screen, because he attacks people suddenly, without warning, when they least expect it. You know, like pirates do. We get the hero's perspective on these attacks, when they're taken completely by surprise.

[Ism]

Many characters are set up as great tacticians. Stannis is known by reputation and onscreen actions to be frighteningly determined and to bring to bear powerful forces with traditional tactics bolstered by a willingness to do whatever was necessary to win. We're shown Tywin is a strong military leader and that he supplements this by being an accomplished diplomat preying on his enemies mis-steps and pacifying their potential allies. Tyrion thinks outside the box and through extensive study, extensive planning, and extensive preparation attacks in a way the enemy just isn't prepared for. What does Euron do? He attacks from offscreen. That's his power, he starts his attacks offscreen surprising the audience so they don't question how things happened.

Give me a scene of Euron muffling oarlocks and dousing lights, drilling his men to row at a grueling pace to strike suddenly and without warning, skulking around rocky crags that other captains would write off as impassable.

No I didn't, shut up.

I. SEE. ALL.

>Not using a Bran/3ER quote

You disappoint me Huskar.

[Tarsonis]

Crazy Ivans are a thing

indeed they are, but not at 8 knots 2 dimensional(boat). Vs. 60 knots 3 dimensional (dragon)

At this point with that piss poor send off of ghost. I am on team Cersei. Although. Why she didnt kill everyone with those laser targeting Ballista's during the parley, I have no idea.

As a former marksmanship instructor, I will say the shot was not that hard to make.

[Ism]

Many characters are set up as great tacticians. Stannis is known by reputation and onscreen actions to be frighteningly determined and to bring to bear powerful forces with traditional tactics bolstered by a willingness to do whatever was necessary to win. We're shown Tywin is a strong military leader and that he supplements this by being an accomplished diplomat preying on his enemies mis-steps and pacifying their potential allies. Tyrion thinks outside the box and through extensive study, extensive planning, and extensive preparation attacks in a way the enemy just isn't prepared for. What does Euron do? He attacks from offscreen. That's his power, he starts his attacks offscreen surprising the audience so they don't question how things happened.

Give me a scene of Euron muffling oarlocks and dousing lights, drilling his men to row at a grueling pace to strike suddenly and without warning, skulking around rocky crags that other captains would write off as impassable.

Euron could have potentially been built up a bit more, with the time cuts imposed by HBO I imagine those scenes are on the cutting room floor somewhere. But even with out them, it's not really necessary. He attacks from off screen, because he attacks people suddenly, without warning, when they least expect it. You know, like pirates do. We get the hero's perspective on these attacks, when they're taken completely by surprise.

Problem is, this has happened so many times that Team Dany ought to be twitchy paranoiacs every time they’re even near a body of water. They should expect that the magic Greyjoy Fleet will show up wherever they go, because it keeps happening. Characters should learn from the past, especially when it’s not out of character do so. There can be reasons that characters don’t learn, but none are provided here.

[Des-Bal]

Euron could have potentially been built up a bit more, with the time cuts imposed by HBO I imagine those scenes are on the cutting room floor somewhere. But even with out them, it's not really necessary. He attacks from off screen, because he attacks people suddenly, without warning, when they least expect it. You know, like pirates do. We get the hero's perspective on these attacks, when they're taken completely by surprise.

He attacks warships at sea during wars, there are very few times people are more ready to be attacked. They snipe the dragon from the front meaning they should have been looking dead on, when they hit the fleet at night there's not really any indication of their presence before they're already in battle. You can get close to a ship if your careful, if you come up in dark skiffs with muffled oarlocks climb aboard and start killing people before they can raise an alarm you can even do some damage. Instead, a fleet appears on top of them and nobody is aware of it until they're in direct ship to ship contact. He wipes out fleets repeatedly and effortlessly, and exclusively by attacking offscreen with no consideration paid to finding, evading, or outmanuvering anybody. When you don't take the time to set up a character or battle that doesn't play as them being great it looks like everyone else is an idiot with bad eyes.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I. SEE. ALL.

>Not using a Bran/3ER quote

You disappoint me Huskar.

shush

[Tarsonis]

Okay so I went backed and watched Rhaegal/Rhaegon's death scene a couple times.

Some notes:

1. The attack did not come directly ahead it came from the left flank, so no they weren't looking directly at the fleet as it shot him.
2. They weren't on open ocean, rather they were circling Dragonstone, an Island noted for its steep cliffs and rock faces. Euron's small flotilla was around the back side of the island using it for cover. As the Dany's ships and the dragons moved into the natural inlet, they began their maneuver and approached the fleet from their starboard side. The Ships had already dropped anchor and were sitting ducks. The dragon was shot as it was circling back back around the ships and looking back out towards sea. All the angles are consistent for and ambush that would catch them from outside their sight lines. Further the ballista's were accurately depicted as leading the target with the dragon essentially flying into the Ballista projectiles, which gave them a sufficient angle to shoot around the cliffs even with a partially obscured line of sight, given their relative position to the target's direction, position and velocity.

3. While yes it was an underwhelming death for a dragon, and from a writing standpoint just kind of comes out of nowhere and is more confusing than engaging, and perhaps it could have been shown better, but from a technical aspect it actually was soundly planned out and depicted.

[Battlion]

Okay so I went backed and watched Rhaegal/Rhaegon's death scene a couple times.

Some notes:

1. The attack did not come directly ahead it came from the left flank, so no they weren't looking directly at the fleet as it shot him.
2. They weren't on open ocean, rather they were circling Dragonstone, an Island noted for its steep cliffs and rock faces. Euron's small flotilla was around the back side of the island using it for cover. As the Dany's ships and the dragons moved into the natural inlet, they began their maneuver and approached the fleet from their starboard side. The Ships had already dropped anchor and were sitting ducks. The dragon was shot as it was circling back back around the ships and looking back out towards sea. All the angles are consistent for and ambush that would catch them from outside their sight lines. Further the ballista's were accurately depicted as leading the target with the dragon essentially flying into the Ballista projectiles, which gave them a sufficient angle to shoot around the cliffs even with a partially obscured line of sight, given their relative position to the target's direction, position and velocity.

3. While yes it was an underwhelming death for a dragon, and from a writing standpoint just kind of comes out of nowhere and is more confusing than engaging, and perhaps it could have been shown better, but from a technical aspect it actually was soundly planned out and depicted.

Agreed, I think some people see a comment accusing it of doing things a certain way and then blindly follow it. But if you look properly, does nothing of the sort.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

I can't even.

I mean, I can think of three or four "logical" explanations, but the real one is because fiction isn't a logic puzzle and good writing isn't necessarily that which involves unimpeachable in-universe decision-making.

I didn't think this was a particularly good episode (although a lot of it's setup so I hesitate to make too much of a judgement till we see the payoff), but fixing all these little issues you lot have isn't going to noticeably improve it.

These are not little issues, it's a consistent pattern of character's actions and motivations making no real sense except for doing whatever causes drama. You SHOULD be able to look at tactical situations and understand why characters make the decisions they do. Nothing's perfect and you can trust that the audience will make an excuse for your little mistakes but only if you keep the little and keep space between them.

Here's a pretty good analysis of why people gripe about 'little problems.' The writers have pulled surprise decisive victories out of their asses so many times people have lost faith that there would be a logical explanation for something.

You want to talk about good writing? We just had the climax of the story happen where there were dozens of moments for meaningful character death but very little of it actually happened. The dragon could have died in battle against the wight dragon and had some meaning, Missaendi could have died in the crypts when the dead were awakened leading to Grey Worm struggling with the fact that the act of sending her to safety imperiled her, it could lead to questions about the competence of the woman he swore to serve. What do we have instead? Oh, darn you teleporting Euron, we're so mad at that guy! And Cersei's mean! Writing!

Okay, please, please, please just think about what you've said for a moment. The dragon and Missandei die during Winterfell. Okay. Don't think in terms of "logic", because you used the word "meaningful". So what's the dramatic impact of them dying there?

They're dead. And...?

Well, firstly you probably won't even be any happier about the logic, because the heroes weren't making logical decisions at Winterfell either. But leaving that aside, what effect does this have going forward? Dany and Grey Worm are sad, sure, but I can't think of anything else, because, as I mentioned when someone else made this exact same point, the undead are defeated at the end of that episode. The dead had also already killed one dragon, so it's not like killing another would make them seem like more of a threat. So what meaning do you think their deaths would have?

Cersei and Euron are still alive, and the weapons they used to kill Rhaegal are still out there. The deaths are (hopefully) going to continue to affect Dany and Grey Worm, perhaps cloud their judgement one way or another as they decide how to deal with them. That in turn might affect what Varys, Tyrion, and Jon decide to do. That's a meaningful death.

If the geography of the ambush or the parley really bothers you...then just alter the geography. Don't rewrite a third of the season. That's downright mental.

Young seems to largely agree with Hulk (and if you haven't read his essay, you and everyone else here should).

I’m not saying that logic, continuity, and clarity don’t matter. They do. But if we’re noticing these things it might be a sign the story has already failed us on a more important and fundamental level. This is an idea that I’ve been working on for a few days now. I keep looking over old broken stories and tracing them back to their failure points, looking for the source of the story collapse. It’s an interesting exercise.

My point (and Hulk's, and I think Young's) is that fixing these logic issues probably isn't going to make the show good, and you could probably overlook an awful lot of them if it were handling its characters better.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Okay so I went backed and watched Rhaegal/Rhaegon's death scene a couple times.

Some notes:

1. The attack did not come directly ahead it came from the left flank, so no they weren't looking directly at the fleet as it shot him.
2. They weren't on open ocean, rather they were circling Dragonstone, an Island noted for its steep cliffs and rock faces. Euron's small flotilla was around the back side of the island using it for cover. As the Dany's ships and the dragons moved into the natural inlet, they began their maneuver and approached the fleet from their starboard side. The Ships had already dropped anchor and were sitting ducks. The dragon was shot as it was circling back back around the ships and looking back out towards sea. All the angles are consistent for and ambush that would catch them from outside their sight lines. Further the ballista's were accurately depicted as leading the target with the dragon essentially flying into the Ballista projectiles, which gave them a sufficient angle to shoot around the cliffs even with a partially obscured line of sight, given their relative position to the target's direction, position and velocity.

3. While yes it was an underwhelming death for a dragon, and from a writing standpoint just kind of comes out of nowhere and is more confusing than engaging, and perhaps it could have been shown better, but from a technical aspect it actually was soundly planned out and depicted.

You would think tho that Dragonstone would have lookouts or something to keep watch and warn of such things tho.

Like flag signals, starting a fire to make smoke to warn them etc

I assume Daenerys left a garrison behind.