Many Bothans Died To Bring You THE STAR WARS THREAD

[The first Galactic Republic]

Rogue One still shows us Stormtroopers that march into machine gun fire and lose to guys with staffs.

The force did it.
The force really hates stormtroopers.

The force is tight with Asian stereotypes that I could have sworn disappeared in the 90's though.

[Zanera]

Star Wars PETA is so incredibly tuh-riggered rn, like, you don't even know.
Anakin is gonna turn to the Dark Side entirely and start slaughtering baby chicks.
We need a Tofu Rebellion to end the evil that is carnivorous food tendencies!

[Salus Maior]

Real machine guns aren't so bright though. In Star Wars it's like a big sign that says don't walk here, but they'll be damned if they don't walk there.

Most people don't have the reflexes to dodge light-speed projectiles. Remember, the visible bolt isn't what kills you.

At least, that's how it was in the old canon.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Real machine guns aren't so bright though. In Star Wars it's like a big sign that says don't walk here, but they'll be damned if they don't walk there.

Most people don't have the reflexes to dodge light-speed projectiles. Remember, the visible bolt isn't what kills you.

At least, that's how it was in the old canon.

I don't care what universe you're from, that's gotta hurt.

(Is there a source for that?)

[Salus Maior]

Most people don't have the reflexes to dodge light-speed projectiles. Remember, the visible bolt isn't what kills you.

At least, that's how it was in the old canon.

I don't care what universe you're from, that's gotta hurt.

(Is there a source for that?)

Did you ever read those Star Wars vehicle cross-sections books? In the Episode III one, that's mentioned on the Venator page.

[The Greater Aryan Race]

These are valid criticisms. People complain that Episode II had too much politics in it but the movie failed to really explain a lot of its politics. That being said I do think we're given enough information to understand the gist of the Separatists.

The movie doesn't at all introduce us to most of the Separatist Council. We just see a bunch of aliens who want to sign Count Dooku's treaty. However I do think the movie gives us enough information to really understand their role in the story. Episode I introduced us to Nute Gunray and we do get to see his character and motivations. He's greedy and self serving, but also being manipulated by Palpatine. Episode II pretty much implies that the Separatist council is a council of Gunrays. They're greedy and largely doing what they do for their own benefit, but they're also fundamentally pawns of Dooku and Sidious. The movie gives you enough information to understand their role in the story. We don't get to see all the politics involved no but remember that any legitimate grievances the Separatists had are irrelevant to their true purpose, which is simply to start the Clone Wars.

Actually to my understanding, it was Dooku's and Sidious's master plan to start the Clone Wars. The Separatists went along with secession because they either (1) were genuinely fed up with the corruption of the Republic or (2) always fancied going their own way at independence. In fact, it was clear from the reactions of the Separatist leaders on Geonosis that none of them expected the Republic to suddenly field a well-trained clone army out of the blue since their understanding was that the Republic possessed no standing military at that time. Ergo, as I mentioned previously, Episode II fails to explain the deep-seated motivations (and how they varied between (1) and (2)) of the Separatists. All we see are the leaders making talk of building droid armies and intimidating the Republic into doing...I dunno...whatever the Separatists demanded which was again only very briefly alluded to.

I don't think you really understand Padme though. She doesn't have a problem with violence in general. I mean she does carry a pistol. She just saw the Clone army for what it was. Violence was fine to liberate Naboo because the Trade Federation acted illegally, but that doesn't mean she wanted the Clone Army to repress the galaxy. She wanted to talk to the Separatists, and when the Clone Army was revealed she realized that someone was interested in making sure peace wasn't an option. As the Clone Wars went on she realized that was Palpatine. There are deleted scenes from III where she meets with the future leaders of the rebel alliance and basically starts the rebellion.

Except that the whole point of the clone army and the Military Creation Bill (at least based the official reasons given by Palpatine in Episode II) was to prevent a repeat of similar situations like that of Naboo and to pre-empt the dissolution of the Republic through illegal secession. In Episode II, no one, and not even Padme, saw the true role of the clone army as Palpatine's means of promulgating civil war and seizing political power. It simply makes no sense, as I stated previously, that a Senator who was the victim of said illegal aggression would suddenly become a pacifist and oppose the creation of a Republican military.

[The first Galactic Republic]

These are valid criticisms. People complain that Episode II had too much politics in it but the movie failed to really explain a lot of its politics. That being said I do think we're given enough information to understand the gist of the Separatists.

The movie doesn't at all introduce us to most of the Separatist Council. We just see a bunch of aliens who want to sign Count Dooku's treaty. However I do think the movie gives us enough information to really understand their role in the story. Episode I introduced us to Nute Gunray and we do get to see his character and motivations. He's greedy and self serving, but also being manipulated by Palpatine. Episode II pretty much implies that the Separatist council is a council of Gunrays. They're greedy and largely doing what they do for their own benefit, but they're also fundamentally pawns of Dooku and Sidious. The movie gives you enough information to understand their role in the story. We don't get to see all the politics involved no but remember that any legitimate grievances the Separatists had are irrelevant to their true purpose, which is simply to start the Clone Wars.

Actually to my understanding, it was Dooku's and Sidious's master plan to start the Clone Wars. The Separatists went along with secession because they either (1) were genuinely fed up with the corruption of the Republic or (2) always fancied going their own way at independence. In fact, it was clear from the reactions of the Separatist leaders on Geonosis that none of them expected the Republic to suddenly field a well-trained clone army out of the blue since their understanding was that the Republic possessed no standing military at that time. Ergo, as I mentioned previously, Episode II fails to explain the deep-seated motivations (and how they varied between (1) and (2)) of the Separatists. All we see are the leaders making talk of building droid armies and intimidating the Republic into doing...I dunno...whatever the Separatists demanded which was again only very briefly alluded to.

I don't think you really understand Padme though. She doesn't have a problem with violence in general. I mean she does carry a pistol. She just saw the Clone army for what it was. Violence was fine to liberate Naboo because the Trade Federation acted illegally, but that doesn't mean she wanted the Clone Army to repress the galaxy. She wanted to talk to the Separatists, and when the Clone Army was revealed she realized that someone was interested in making sure peace wasn't an option. As the Clone Wars went on she realized that was Palpatine. There are deleted scenes from III where she meets with the future leaders of the rebel alliance and basically starts the rebellion.

Except that the whole point of the clone army and the Military Creation Bill (at least based the official reasons given by Palpatine in Episode II) was to prevent a repeat of similar situations like that of Naboo and to pre-empt the dissolution of the Republic through illegal secession. In Episode II, no one, and not even Padme, saw the true role of the clone army as Palpatine's means of promulgating civil war and seizing political power. It simply makes no sense, as I stated previously, that a Senator who was the victim of said illegal aggression would suddenly become a pacifist and oppose the creation of a Republican military.

For your first point I'm not saying that the Separatists didn't have motivations in universe. In universe each member of the Council had their own personal motivations for joining Dooku, but in real life their sole role in the story was to be Palpatine's pawns. George simply didn't feel the need to elaborate on them and I can't say I disagree. Going on about all of them wouldn't have contributed much to the story.

The senators didn't have to have foresight to see that the Clone Army was dangerous. That was the whole point of the scene where they march into the assault ships. It was supposed to be the most fascist thing ever. The senators don't know what the army will do exactly, but they're smart enough to be suspicious.

Your argument is like Jar Jar's thought process. Jar Jar was manipulated into supporting the army by the logic that Padme would like a strong army to stop future conflicts, but that's a complete misunderstanding of Padme's character. Fascism invites war and the Repubic was well on its way in Episode II. Padme was smart enough to see that. A small security force like what the Republic already had is enough for peace. The problem back in I was a convoluted bureaucracy, not a lack of a military. Padme wanted diplomacy, not violence.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Does anyone remember any female Republic officers from the Clone Wars that weren't Jedi?

The only I can remember was Warlord Zsinj's mother.

[Romic]

Real machine guns aren't so bright though. In Star Wars it's like a big sign that says don't walk here, but they'll be damned if they don't walk there.

Most people don't have the reflexes to dodge light-speed projectiles. Remember, the visible bolt isn't what kills you.

At least, that's how it was in the old canon.

Except it's not a laser and it doesn't go light speed. From what I remember from leagends its compressed tibanna gas and is ignighted by a power pack to fire a high energy bolt.

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

POWER....UN-LIM-I-TED PPPPPPPPPPPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

*shocks everything even himself*

[Laughing Peninsula]

This has been a major problem for me for a while involving the prequels. Obviously I understand practical limitations made it so it would be near impossible to have done it when the original series was made (though I don't really believe Lucas actually thought of the Droids before Phantom Menace, it is quite a hard pill to swallow that he had this all planned out like I know some fans claim). But none the less we have droids before, and then none of them are much talked about in the future that is the story.

I just can't figure out how Palpatine couldn't incorporate them into the army, or at the VERY least adapt the technology into his own forces. We see all the time that Stormtrooper armor is useless, you'd figure they'd be able to acquire droideka style shields that are back mounted or something. You're telling me that Palpatine couldn't spin "So we crushed those idiots and have control over their entire army now. We will now go about reprogramming and improving these droids to bolster your local police/military/bar staff. Such wonders we, the empire, bring".

I hear people grumble that "Oh uh... people hate droids so they wouldn't like it", and my response to that is "They are the empire... they are in the business of not caring what you think"

Idk, it was always something that bothered me and I was wondering if anyone else had similar feelings or could reveal on to me how me feeling this just proves I am a dumb dumb or something

[Alvecia]

There's a Star Wars thread in A&F this probably would have been bettter in.

IIRC didn't he send Anakin to go destroy the Driod control center (or something) on Mustafar with the Separatist leaders.

The destruction of the Separatists was still important for his public image in the senate and amongst the populace. It isn't until Episode 4 that the senate dissolved and his power became absolute.

[Laughing Peninsula]

There's a Star Wars thread in A&F this probably would have been bettter in.

IIRC didn't he send Anakin to go destroy the Droid control center (or something) on Mustafar with the Separatist leaders.

The destruction of the Separatists was still important for his public image in the senate and amongst the populace. It isn't until Episode 4 that the senate dissolved and his power became absolute.

Oh, sorry for posting in the wrong place, been a while since I botched :S

Either way. I am mostly just confused that he didn't, after the events of 3 when he had his Julius Ceaser level control, he didn't be all like "Oh hey you, yeah could you like go to mustafar and give those super battle droids a fresh coat of paint and a few design tweaks to make them more 'Empire Friendly'? Cool thanks brah"

Isn't it all the greater victory over the separatists to not only crush their rebellion but on top of that completely control their means of resisting your rule to begin with? If Count Dooku can make an entire clone army in secret I have a hard time believing a man with his level of power and influence couldn't make other droids in secret, only to pop them out when the time was right with a good ol PR spin, about how they are better suited to be the defenders of your way of life than ever before.

I mean I get having a clone army and generalized stormtroopers, but if the focus is general expendability wouldn't it be better to send in a legion of robots, robots you have no expectation to actually win, to soften up the resistance before you send in your more valuable, tactically superior stormtroopers. I mean let's see the Ewoks halt the glorious spread of the empire if we send 200 million robots to clear cut their entire shitty planet

[Alvecia]

S'cool. Maybe ask one of the mods to merge? Idk.

I think the defeat of the droid army was symbolic more than anything, and to many of the core worlds they represent "the enemy".
Even giving them a fresh coat of paint they still would have been viewed with suspicion and mistrust.

[The Huskar Social Union]

POWER....UN-LIM-I-TED PPPPPPPPPPPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

*shocks everything even himself*

Relevant

[Socialist Nordia]

Why would the empire incorporate the army of separatist terrorists? This would be unacceptable for the legitimate successor to the Republic to do. The separatists wanted to topple our democratically elected government, just like the treacherous Jedi who couldn't stand to see the person they didn't want win an election fair and square, and then activate necessary emergency powers.
/s

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

that was amazing...I watched almost the whole movie like that.........

[Salus Maior]

[The Huskar Social Union]

What would people like to see in future star wars stand alone movies? I think i mentioned it before, but i would like to see something similar to Rogue one except with a unit of stormtroopers, just a straight up war movie from their perspective. Or about clone troopers.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Perhaps because they weren't organic, which would have made it impossible for Palpatine to manipulate.

[The first Galactic Republic]

What would people like to see in future star wars stand alone movies? I think i mentioned it before, but i would like to see something similar to Rogue one except with a unit of stormtroopers, just a straight up war movie from their perspective. Or about clone troopers.

FN-2199's Loyal Adventures, or how I learned to stop resisting and love the First Order.

Could also be the new animated series to replace Rebels.

[Zanera]

What would people like to see in future star wars stand alone movies? I think i mentioned it before, but i would like to see something similar to Rogue one except with a unit of stormtroopers, just a straight up war movie from their perspective. Or about clone troopers.

FN-2199's Loyal Adventures, or how I learned to stop resisting and love the First Order.

Could also be the new animated series to replace Rebels.

With loyalty like that, the First Order will be able to destroy the New Republic.

[Hirota]

Diplomatic reputation was too low to annex.

Eu4 explains everything.

[Pilack]

Think about the Clone Wars. Entire planets were ravaged by the Separatist's droid armies. I imagine that there would have been massive outrage if Palpatine decided to use those battle droids, and more systems would have rallied/sympathized with the Rebel Alliance.

[Alekseandrea]

FN-2199's Loyal Adventures, or how I learned to stop resisting and love the First Order.

Could also be the new animated series to replace Rebels.

With loyalty like that, the First Order will be able to destroy the New Republic.

And the protagonist will be a proper role model.
That too.