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Which is your favorite sentient Star Wars race?

Wookies. Because fur is hot... And murder.
39
8%
Twi'leks. Because slugs are hot.
131
27%
Tusken Raiders. A little rape fantasy never hurt anybody.
33
7%
Jawas. Lots of little hands touching me is hot.
22
4%
Hutts. BIG. NASTY. RUDE. SWEATY. HOT.
13
3%
Ewoks. Because creepy ugly teddy bears are hot.
30
6%
Bothans. I hear they die a lot. And that's hot.
27
5%
Trandoshans. Because lizards are hot.
12
2%
Rodians. Because... I don't know anymore. Reptilian ant-eaters are hot?
13
3%
Other. Because my God there's a lot of alien species in Star Wars. And they're ALL hot.
171
35%
 
Total votes : 491

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Alvecia
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Posts: 19953
Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Wed May 10, 2017 6:38 am

Alekseandrea wrote:
Alvecia wrote:I mean, I'm not a star ship pilot, or any other type of pilot really, but doing a flip doesn't seem much more difficult than pulling back on the lever until you've gone in a circle.
So to me I suppose it doesn't seem out of place at all because to me it doesn't sound particularly skillful.


It doesn't sound skillfull untill you realise she had to line up the falcon's cannons with the chasing tie-fighter.
She doesn't know in what position the cannons are stuck, she doesn't know the exact location of the tie-fighter and yet she manages to give Finn a clear shot.
It looked cool, sure, but think about it.

I'd put that down to it being a film tbh.
Though to be honest, if I really wanted to argue the point I could go on about the force's influence in making occur what otherwise would be dismissed as "coincidence" or "luck".
But then the force is basically this sci-faantasy's plot device.

Well Finn, if the TLA trailer is anything to go by, almost did die I reckon. He was obviously down for the count. He probably would've ended up killing him proper if Rey hadn't intervened.
I don't think he actually wanted to kill Rey. I'm pretty sure that Snoke told him to bring her to him, I presume he meant alive. Also in the saber lock he does say "I can teach you" or something like that, so maybe he wanted to turn her.


True. But it makes you wonder when the darksiders are finally going to learn that, no, it isn't a good idea to turn that pesky hero.

Palpatine tried that. He died. Vader tried it. He died.
Kylo tried it. He hasn't died yet, but will probably redeem himself by stopping Snoke and dying.

Yeah, villains have been failing to insta-kill the good guys for years now. Evil villan explains his evil plot is a trope for a reason. It would probably make sense, and I imagine there's a place for actual competent villans in media somewhere, but if you want the little Good Guys Who Could to defeat the Big Bad Powerful Bad Guys you've got to throw a little incompetence in there just so the protagonists don't get curb stomped in 5 minutes.

I dunno, Luke catches onto using the Force to sense the training droids shots without seeing in just one session. It's hard to compare because we never see Luke even attempt to conciously do much if anything with the force in the first movie beyond that training scene, which he gets pretty quick, and the trench run, which again, he manages to do well with. Though arguably it was the session with the training droid that taught him how to do that.

Anakin is a pretty hard comparison because we skip from him being a little kid to a well trained Jedi.


The thing is that Luke has Obi-Wan as help (alive and as "ghost").
Rey doesn't seem to have had any training and doesn't have a mentor.

I'd argue she did have a mentor, in a sense. Kylo Ren. He didn't tell her how to use the force, like Obi-Wan did for Luke, but he did show her when he interrogated her.

I think she wanted to.


You could practically smell his dishonestness.

She really did ignore the painfully obvious.

People will overlook all sorts of untruths if it fits what they want to believe. The past couple of years should be evidence enough of that.

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The Holy Empire of the Spaghetti Monster
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Holy Empire of the Spaghetti Monster » Wed May 10, 2017 6:42 am

The first Galactic Republic wrote:So I was looking through this thread and I see we haven't ranked the Star Wars movies in awhile. What is everyone's ranking?

I would have to say:

Return of the Jedi
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith
A New Hope
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Phantom Menace
2008 CGI Clone Wars
Empire Strikes Back

Rogue One
Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
The Phantom Menace
2008 CGI Clone Wars
Attack of the Clones
WE ARE NOT SAPIENT SPAGHETTI

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Abserdia
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Postby Abserdia » Wed May 10, 2017 6:45 am

The first Galactic Republic wrote:So I was looking through this thread and I see we haven't ranked the Star Wars movies in awhile. What is everyone's ranking?

I would have to say:

Return of the Jedi
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith
A New Hope
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Phantom Menace
2008 CGI Clone Wars
Empire Strikes Back

How are you ranking this? Best at top?
Because if you think PHANTOM FREAKIN' MENACE is better than Empire Strikes Back, I will respectfully disagree with you and call you the worst person I've ever met in my entire life.

Nevermind, I read your other post. I respectfully think you're the worst person I've ever met in my entire life.
Last edited by Abserdia on Wed May 10, 2017 6:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Salus Maior
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Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Wed May 10, 2017 6:57 am

Alekseandrea wrote:You could practically smell his dishonestness.
She really did ignore the painfully obvious.


It's not as if she's ever known anyone in the Resistance. She's naive (of course, living on the most backwater of backwaters her entire life) but that does not equal being unintelligent.
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Alekseandrea
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Founded: Dec 26, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Alekseandrea » Wed May 10, 2017 7:07 am

Alvecia wrote:


True. But it makes you wonder when the darksiders are finally going to learn that, no, it isn't a good idea to turn that pesky hero.

Palpatine tried that. He died. Vader tried it. He died.
Kylo tried it. He hasn't died yet, but will probably redeem himself by stopping Snoke and dying.

Yeah, villains have been failing to insta-kill the good guys for years now. Evil villan explains his evil plot is a trope for a reason. It would probably make sense, and I imagine there's a place for actual competent villans in media somewhere, but if you want the little Good Guys Who Could to defeat the Big Bad Powerful Bad Guys you've got to throw a little incompetence in there just so the protagonists don't get curb stomped in 5 minutes.


They try to make the villians credible threats, but how credible are they when they always lose to the heroes?
If you don't let your villians have a meaningful victory, how are we supposed to believe that they actually threaten the heroes?



The thing is that Luke has Obi-Wan as help (alive and as "ghost").
Rey doesn't seem to have had any training and doesn't have a mentor.

I'd argue she did have a mentor, in a sense. Kylo Ren. He didn't tell her how to use the force, like Obi-Wan did for Luke, but he did show her when he interrogated her.


Well, he didn't show her. He used it on her.

Learning to use the force that way would be like learning to fight by being hit by someone.
It doesn't happen.

You could practically smell his dishonestness.

She really did ignore the painfully obvious.

People will overlook all sorts of untruths if it fits what they want to believe. The past couple of years should be evidence enough of that.


Shouldn't people on "every man for himself"-planets like Jakku become too jaded to actually believe wild claims, especially if they are done by strangers?


Those quote-thingies are starting to drive me crazy...
Last edited by Alekseandrea on Wed May 10, 2017 7:09 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Zanera
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Posts: 9717
Founded: Jun 28, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Zanera » Wed May 10, 2017 7:18 am

Alekseandrea wrote:
Alvecia wrote:
Yeah, villains have been failing to insta-kill the good guys for years now. Evil villan explains his evil plot is a trope for a reason. It would probably make sense, and I imagine there's a place for actual competent villans in media somewhere, but if you want the little Good Guys Who Could to defeat the Big Bad Powerful Bad Guys you've got to throw a little incompetence in there just so the protagonists don't get curb stomped in 5 minutes.


They try to make the villians credible threats, but how credible are they when they always lose to the heroes?
If you don't let your villians have a meaningful victory, how are we supposed to believe that they actually threaten the heroes?


I'm sure the villains will have a meaningful victory in Empire Strikes Back 2.

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Hurdergaryp
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Hurdergaryp » Wed May 10, 2017 7:25 am

Zanera wrote:
Alekseandrea wrote:They try to make the villians credible threats, but how credible are they when they always lose to the heroes?
If you don't let your villians have a meaningful victory, how are we supposed to believe that they actually threaten the heroes?

I'm sure the villains will have a meaningful victory in Empire Strikes Back 2.

Annihilating the capital world and several other inhabited planets of the New Republic isn't meaningful enough for you?


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Anywhere Else But Here
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Founded: Mar 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Anywhere Else But Here » Wed May 10, 2017 7:28 am

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Zanera wrote:I'm sure the villains will have a meaningful victory in Empire Strikes Back 2.

Annihilating the capital world and several other inhabited planets of the New Republic isn't meaningful enough for you?

And in case that's too impersonal, they also killed Han.

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Skylus
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Skylus » Wed May 10, 2017 7:33 am

Didn't (.....I forgot his name just now.....) say that he wanted Han to die in the first trilogy?
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Maichuko
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Maichuko » Wed May 10, 2017 7:49 am

Skylus wrote:Didn't (.....I forgot his name just now.....) say that he wanted Han to die in the first trilogy?

I think Harrison Ford said that.
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Skylus
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Skylus » Wed May 10, 2017 7:53 am

THAT's his name, thank you.
...How could I even for get....
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Zanera
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Ex-Nation

Postby Zanera » Wed May 10, 2017 7:54 am

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Zanera wrote:I'm sure the villains will have a meaningful victory in Empire Strikes Back 2.

Annihilating the capital world and several other inhabited planets of the New Republic isn't meaningful enough for you?


Anywhere Else But Here wrote:
Hurdergaryp wrote:Annihilating the capital world and several other inhabited planets of the New Republic isn't meaningful enough for you?

And in case that's too impersonal, they also killed Han.


They have to reinstate the Empire and go back to Rebels vs. Empire again.
For reason.

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Alvecia
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Posts: 19953
Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Wed May 10, 2017 7:54 am

Alekseandrea wrote:
Alvecia wrote:
Yeah, villains have been failing to insta-kill the good guys for years now. Evil villan explains his evil plot is a trope for a reason. It would probably make sense, and I imagine there's a place for actual competent villans in media somewhere, but if you want the little Good Guys Who Could to defeat the Big Bad Powerful Bad Guys you've got to throw a little incompetence in there just so the protagonists don't get curb stomped in 5 minutes.


They try to make the villians credible threats, but how credible are they when they always lose to the heroes?
If you don't let your villians have a meaningful victory, how are we supposed to believe that they actually threaten the heroes?

1.
Well I mean, they did fuck up that village on Jakku, capture Poe, dick up Maz's temple, capture Finn, Han, and Chewy before the Resistance reinforcements, actually capture Rey, destroy 5 planets in one go along with a lot of the Republic Fleet, and they were winning the air battle on SK Base until Chewy blew the explosives after Han died (oh yeah, they killed him too).

So I mean, it's not like they lost every encounter. But I would like to see a nice win for the bad guys in TLJ.

I'd argue she did have a mentor, in a sense. Kylo Ren. He didn't tell her how to use the force, like Obi-Wan did for Luke, but he did show her when he interrogated her.


Well, he didn't show her. He used it on her.

Learning to use the force that way would be like learning to fight by being hit by someone.
It doesn't happen.

2.
I would disagree. You can learn to fight by beaing beaten and learning from your mistakes.
Which is pretty much what happened in the interogation scene. She managed to mimic him to turn it around, though not before he had already successfully seen the visions she's had (though he thought they were dreams).

People will overlook all sorts of untruths if it fits what they want to believe. The past couple of years should be evidence enough of that.


Shouldn't people on "every man for himself"-planets like Jakku become too jaded to actually believe wild claims, especially if they are done by strangers?

3.
She's still kind of a a kid when you get down to it. A kid with a kid's sense of wonder and excitement when it comes to the wider galaxy, and the heroic stories of the Jedi and the Rebel's triumph against the Empire, and the brave Resistance fighters that hold back the Evil First Order.
Now she get's to be a part of it? I don't blame her for leaping before looking.
Those quote-thingies are starting to drive me crazy...

I'm back on a computer now, so it's easier for me, but I numbered them if that's an easier format for you.

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The first Galactic Republic
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Anarchy

Postby The first Galactic Republic » Wed May 10, 2017 8:16 am

Alvecia wrote:
The first Galactic Republic wrote:Fett clones would biologically be in their sixties around Endor. That guy looks like he's that old.

Also apparently one of the Emperor's royal guards is a Fett clone.

Are we talking about that beared guy?
I know Dave Filoni wants it to be Rex, but he hasn't "confirmed" it, it's more of his own thoughts on the matter

The Royal Guard is canon. The old guy being Rex is a fan theory but it's a pretty good one and he's only named in the old EU.
TG me about my avatars for useless trivia.

A very good link right here.

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The first Galactic Republic
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Anarchy

Postby The first Galactic Republic » Wed May 10, 2017 8:18 am

Abserdia wrote:
The first Galactic Republic wrote:So I was looking through this thread and I see we haven't ranked the Star Wars movies in awhile. What is everyone's ranking?

I would have to say:

Return of the Jedi
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith
A New Hope
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Phantom Menace
2008 CGI Clone Wars
Empire Strikes Back

How are you ranking this? Best at top?
Because if you think PHANTOM FREAKIN' MENACE is better than Empire Strikes Back, I will respectfully disagree with you and call you the worst person I've ever met in my entire life.

Nevermind, I read your other post. I respectfully think you're the worst person I've ever met in my entire life.

Why? Is it the Neimoidians being racial stereotypes? That definitely hurts the movie.
TG me about my avatars for useless trivia.

A very good link right here.

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Skylus
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Posts: 6510
Founded: Oct 25, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Skylus » Wed May 10, 2017 8:20 am

The Rich Port wrote:
Whatever rattles your lightsaber, hammerhead.


Very, VERY old quote, but

I am using this in my novel.
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The first Galactic Republic
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Anarchy

Postby The first Galactic Republic » Wed May 10, 2017 8:21 am

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Zanera wrote:I'm sure the villains will have a meaningful victory in Empire Strikes Back 2.

Annihilating the capital world and several other inhabited planets of the New Republic isn't meaningful enough for you?

That's pretty significant but I wish we were introduced to Hosnian Prime even a little bit before it blew up. It's destruction had no impact.
TG me about my avatars for useless trivia.

A very good link right here.

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Alvecia
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Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Wed May 10, 2017 8:22 am

The first Galactic Republic wrote:
Hurdergaryp wrote:Annihilating the capital world and several other inhabited planets of the New Republic isn't meaningful enough for you?

That's pretty significant but I wish we were introduced to Hosnian Prime even a little bit before it blew up. It's destruction had no impact.

I don't wonder if they were hesitant to go into the politics of it given the reaction that got from fans last time.

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The first Galactic Republic
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Founded: Apr 27, 2014
Anarchy

Postby The first Galactic Republic » Wed May 10, 2017 8:26 am

Alvecia wrote:
The first Galactic Republic wrote:That's pretty significant but I wish we were introduced to Hosnian Prime even a little bit before it blew up. It's destruction had no impact.

I don't wonder if they were hesitant to go into the politics of it given the reaction that got from fans last time.

At least IV gave us some worldbuilding. Tarkin talked about the Imperial Senate being disbanded and about how the regional governors could rule directly. It's actually an important scene to his character. In a conversation about how the Empire will survive without the bureaucracy Tarkin mentions that the Death Star will keep the systems in line. He believes it's necessary to rule the Empire and that only with the Death Star can the bureaucracy be replaced. It shows why he values the project so much.

Also we don't necessarily need politics. We could have just had a scene on Hosnian Prime or something earlier in the movie. Maybe a scene of some politicians talking about the Resistance. It would set up that the Resistance is not officially supported by the New Republic and would give the audience some reason to care that the planet gets blown up.
TG me about my avatars for useless trivia.

A very good link right here.

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Alvecia
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Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Wed May 10, 2017 8:29 am

The first Galactic Republic wrote:
Alvecia wrote:I don't wonder if they were hesitant to go into the politics of it given the reaction that got from fans last time.

At least IV gave us some worldbuilding. Tarkin talked about the Imperial Senate being disbanded and about how the regional governors could rule directly. It's actually an important scene to his character. In a conversation about how the Empire will survive without the bureaucracy Tarkin mentions that the Death Star will keep the systems in line. He believes it's necessary to rule the Empire and that only with the Death Star can the bureaucracy be replaced. It shows why he values the project so much.

Also we don't necessarily need politics. We could have just had a scene on Hosnian Prime or something earlier in the movie. Maybe a scene of some politicians talking about the Resistance. It would set up that the Resistance is not officially supported by the New Republic and would give the audience some reason to care that the planet gets blown up.

Yeah, it could have been done. I was just wondering. Like maybe they thought instead of trying to do it right they'd just not touch it altogether.

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Skylus
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Skylus » Wed May 10, 2017 8:48 am

What's the max number of posts for A&F?
12000?

We need to think of a title.
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Alvecia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Wed May 10, 2017 8:51 am

Skylus wrote:What's the max number of posts for A&F?
12000?

We need to think of a title.

I didn't think it was subforum specific. I assumed 500 pages was the standard cut off point for all threads.

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Alekseandrea
Diplomat
 
Posts: 974
Founded: Dec 26, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Alekseandrea » Wed May 10, 2017 8:53 am

Hurdergaryp wrote:
Zanera wrote:I'm sure the villains will have a meaningful victory in Empire Strikes Back 2.

Annihilating the capital world and several other inhabited planets of the New Republic isn't meaningful enough for you?


No. If the First Order had gutted the republic's war machine (Kuat drive yards, Balmorra, etc.), then they would have actually achieved something more useful in the long term.
Instead of that they chose to blow up politicians and some random planets, angering the Republic.

Anywhere Else But Here wrote:
Hurdergaryp wrote:Annihilating the capital world and several other inhabited planets of the New Republic isn't meaningful enough for you?

And in case that's too impersonal, they also killed Han.


...
Kylo Ren lost moments later.
He lost hard.

Alvecia wrote:
Alekseandrea wrote:
They try to make the villians credible threats, but how credible are they when they always lose to the heroes?
If you don't let your villians have a meaningful victory, how are we supposed to believe that they actually threaten the heroes?

1.
Well I mean, they did fuck up that village on Jakku, capture Poe, dick up Maz's temple, capture Finn, Han, and Chewy before the Resistance reinforcements, actually capture Rey, destroy 5 planets in one go along with a lot of the Republic Fleet, and they were winning the air battle on SK Base until Chewy blew the explosives after Han died (oh yeah, they killed him too).

So I mean, it's not like they lost every encounter. But I would like to see a nice win for the bad guys in TLJ.


The village doesn't really matter. The only thing of value in that village escaped their grasp. They didn't achieve their objective (the datastick), thus it was actually a loss. They won the fight, but lost the battle.

They didn't get the intell from Poe, thus it's another failure. Because they captured him for said intell.

They destroyed Maz's temple and actually achieved to get the intell, by capturing Rey. But they couldn't extract it from her. Making the interrogation a failure.

They managed to destroy 5 planets and part of the fleet, but since the Republic should be able to replace it's leaders and fleet relatively quickly. This gains the First Order a short and medium-term advantage, but if they can't bring the Republic to it's knees before they replace the lost fleet, they will lose in the long term.

They might have had the advantage in the air battle, but Starkiller base still got blown up. Another fight they won, but battle they lost.



Well, he didn't show her. He used it on her.

Learning to use the force that way would be like learning to fight by being hit by someone.
It doesn't happen.

2.
I would disagree. You can learn to fight by beaing beaten and learning from your mistakes.
Which is pretty much what happened in the interogation scene. She managed to mimic him to turn it around, though not before he had already successfully seen the visions she's had (though he thought they were dreams).


Seeing something doesn't make you able to do it.
You might find out how to do it, sure, but the skill needed to perform it isn't attached.

Shouldn't people on "every man for himself"-planets like Jakku become too jaded to actually believe wild claims, especially if they are done by strangers?

3.
She's still kind of a a kid when you get down to it. A kid with a kid's sense of wonder and excitement when it comes to the wider galaxy, and the heroic stories of the Jedi and the Rebel's triumph against the Empire, and the brave Resistance fighters that hold back the Evil First Order.
Now she get's to be a part of it? I don't blame her for leaping before looking.


Well, I would expected more cynicism from someone raised in a dystopia where you are underpaid in "portions" for your hard-scavenged scrap, but what you say does make sense.


Those quote-thingies are starting to drive me crazy...

I'm back on a computer now, so it's easier for me, but I numbered them if that's an easier format for you.


Thanks.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."

Qui-Gon Jinn

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Uinted Communist of Africa
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Uinted Communist of Africa » Wed May 10, 2017 9:04 am

*grabs popcorn*

Interesting
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[_★_] copy and paste. Join the revolution!!!! Stats are for the mentally advanced...change my mind.
( -_- ) My nation does support my political views...deal with it.

"We do not want a single foot of foreign territory; but of our territory we shall not surrender a single inch to anyone." - Joseph Stalin, 1930

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Alvecia
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Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Wed May 10, 2017 9:10 am

Alekseandrea wrote:
Alvecia wrote:1.
Well I mean, they did fuck up that village on Jakku, capture Poe, dick up Maz's temple, capture Finn, Han, and Chewy before the Resistance reinforcements, actually capture Rey, destroy 5 planets in one go along with a lot of the Republic Fleet, and they were winning the air battle on SK Base until Chewy blew the explosives after Han died (oh yeah, they killed him too).

So I mean, it's not like they lost every encounter. But I would like to see a nice win for the bad guys in TLJ.


The village doesn't really matter. The only thing of value in that village escaped their grasp. They didn't achieve their objective (the datastick), thus it was actually a loss. They won the fight, but lost the battle.

They didn't get the intell from Poe, thus it's another failure. Because they captured him for said intell.

They destroyed Maz's temple and actually achieved to get the intell, by capturing Rey. But they couldn't extract it from her. Making the interrogation a failure.

They managed to destroy 5 planets and part of the fleet, but since the Republic should be able to replace it's leaders and fleet relatively quickly. This gains the First Order a short and medium-term advantage, but if they can't bring the Republic to it's knees before they replace the lost fleet, they will lose in the long term.

They might have had the advantage in the air battle, but Starkiller base still got blown up. Another fight they won, but battle they lost.

Fair points. But I'm not convinced that despite all of the above, simply not getting a hold of the plans ruins their credibility as a threat. I suppose it'll really pan out in the next movie.

2.
I would disagree. You can learn to fight by beaing beaten and learning from your mistakes.
Which is pretty much what happened in the interogation scene. She managed to mimic him to turn it around, though not before he had already successfully seen the visions she's had (though he thought they were dreams).


Seeing something doesn't make you able to do it.
You might find out how to do it, sure, but the skill needed to perform it isn't attached.

The skill is kind of innate in force users, more so in Star Wars protagonists, it's harnessing it that requires learning.

3.
She's still kind of a a kid when you get down to it. A kid with a kid's sense of wonder and excitement when it comes to the wider galaxy, and the heroic stories of the Jedi and the Rebel's triumph against the Empire, and the brave Resistance fighters that hold back the Evil First Order.
Now she get's to be a part of it? I don't blame her for leaping before looking.


Well, I would expected more cynicism from someone raised in a dystopia where you are underpaid in "portions" for your hard-scavenged scrap, but what you say does make sense.

Perhaps. Though I suppose holding onto her dream of her parents returning would require that she maintain a high level of optimism. Maybe this bled over into her other outlooks on life.

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