Many Bothans Died To Bring You THE STAR WARS THREAD

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Space opera?

Yes, but is a fantasy space opera or a sci-fi one?

[Zanera]

Space opera?

Yes, but is a fantasy space opera or a sci-fi one?

"It's my sci-fi and space opera fantasyyyy!"

[Salus Maior]

Goddamn. http://www.gamesradar.com/the-original- ... ffer_sfxtw

[New haven america]

Happy birthday first episode of the best Sci-Fi ever!

Is it Sci-Fi though?

Sci-fi is a bit of an umbrella term.

I'd argue SW is more Science Fantasy.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Happy birthday first episode of the best Sci-Fi ever!

Is it Sci-Fi though?

Definitely yes.

It's also fantasy though and that might be throwing you off, since most sci-fi works try to make themselves plausible.

[Romic]

I'd call it Sci-Fi honestly FTL and other things put it over the edge as opposed to just Science Fantasy.

Think of it blaster work based of of heated gas to make plasma into a projectile weapon it might be plausible in the future

[Skylus]

Goddamn. http://www.gamesradar.com/the-original- ... ffer_sfxtw

Should have kept it.....

[Ism]

Is it Sci-Fi though?

Definitely yes.

It's also fantasy though and that might be throwing you off, since most sci-fi works try to make themselves plausible.

Most is probably pushing it, unless you count technobabble and the like as trying.

[The first Galactic Republic]

When? I can only remember one time they actually do that. To hype Anakin.
You're lucky if they even bother to mention them.

I mean yeah in the movies they don't come up again, but there is other Star Wars media that contributes to the canon. You could say they never get mentioned in the movies again, but then they don't go around finding force sensitives out of nowhere in the movies again. They find Luke but they already knew he was strong in the force.

We do know for certain that there is, certainly, a small group of inquisitors.

Fundamentally no, no you don't.

The empire isn't incompetent. If they truly were incompetent, there wouldn't be a need for a rebellion to topple the galactic empire.
It would simply self-destruct.

tfw Imperial senators lead the rebellion.

Well, ever considered the fact that galaxies are really, really big?

Searching all habitable planets is a waste of time and recources. It's impossible to visit all those in a lifetime, without even searching them.

The Empire could certainly find most force sensitives in your eyes even though that's like finding a needle in a haystack, but you also think this same Empire couldn't possibly find armed rebel groups easily.

How... what?

I'm talking about their ideological arm. Those who opposed the corruption and high taxes of the republic.
Those didn't dissapear with the empire.

Thus you've got loads of planets who were willing to go to war to be rid of the republic,
where did the people who believed in the "confedaracy of independent systems" and were willing to fight for their beliefs?
Did they conveniently had termination chips implanted?

A number of them joined the rebel alliance, but many would have given up, retired, or otherwise been made unable to fight through any number of things over twenty years.

The rebels were almost care-bear food.
And honestly, those little abominations were only useful as a distraction.
The rebels had to hijack a AT-ST to actually get in.

The imperials were powerless against the plot-armour, but, frankly, anyone would be.

No the Empire was dumb as all fuck on Endor. Yeah some of the rebels almost got eaten but Leia genuinely befriended Wicket so it's not like Ewoks are hostile to all aliens. The AT-ST helped the rebels save some Ewoks but it was a fake Imperial transmission that got them into the bunker. The film doesn't say the AT-ST was used to make that.

That Ewok distraction thing was entirely the Empire's fault. Why did they abandon defensive positions to chase enemies into the forest where they had a tactical advantage? Why not just man some E-Webs and stay put by the generator? Why didn't they clear the forest around the shield generator anyways? They obviously can clear the forest lest the shield generator and landing pad couldn't have been built, so why not clear it a little more? Why wear bright white in a forest? Nothing makes sense. You know you're right about the coincidences that lead to the first Death Star's destruction, but the Empire had no one else to blame for all of their failures.

On a greater note, the Empire is at its very core a complete and utter waste of time. It is a complete failure of a civilization. It has nothing unique going for it, and suffers from many problems.

Yes the Empire did a number of things. It created the largest military in galactic history. It built the Death Stars and super Star Destroyers and things like that. Fundamentally though the Empire could do these things because it inherited the infrastructure of the old Republic, which it can't take credit for making. The Empire just inherited the mechanisms needed to create these things from the Republic. The Republic never made things like that because it wasn't militarized, not because it couldn't. When the Empire was formed projects like that could be done because the Empire was willing to give the military enough money. These are Imperial successes, but they aren't a result of any unique Imperial system or technological innovation. Rather these things were inherited from the old Republic. The Empire helped itself to existing infrastructure, personnel, academic facilities, technological achievements, etc.

Now let's look at the unique problems the Empire suffered from that the Republic didn't. A problem leveled at the Republic in its last days was that the Republic's crippling bureaucracy prevented it from achieving anything and was riddled with corruption. The Empire did succeed at getting rid of this bureaucracy, but ironically ended up becoming more corrupt and more incapable of doing anything without it. The Empire was actually more decentralized than the Republic. Local moffs and admirals were essentially lords of medieval fiefdoms. They could do anything they wanted so long as it didn't get in the way of what Palpatine wanted. Each moff and admiral essentially used Imperial resources as they saw fit, and they certainly did not all agree with each other. Moffs frequently abused their authority to pursue personal projects and there was little oversight to stop them. Moffs could spend all of their resources on pointless projects and there wasn't anything anyone could do about it unless Palpatine or Vader personally stepped in. On top of this Imperial officers would frequently waste resources and harm the Empire itself while trying to get ahead of each other. The Empire depended on these Moffs to control the galaxy and they were frequently corrupt, incompetent, hurting the Empire for their own gain, and doing all kinds of other things that the Republic's bureaucracy had been accused of years prior. Even without an extensive bureaucracy the Empire found itself mired in corruption and inaction.

The Imperial system encouraged men who would use Imperial resources for their own benefit to the detriment of the Empire to rise to power however. The original Imperial leaders did not necessarily earn their positions. They were simply the officers who supported Palpatine the most when he was Chancellor. Palpatine rewarded them with extensive powers when the Empire was formed, and so men who were simply trying to get ahead at the cost of their country were given control of the galaxy. The Empire further continued to create an officer core that was obsessed with personal power and getting ahead, and this would greatly hurt the Empire. When an officer only cares about promotion they'll sometimes do things that don't benefit everyone as a whole so they can get ahead. For example when Vader or sometimes even Palpatine has an officer executed, their second in command will be promoted. There are a number of problems with this already. Competent officers with years and years of experience will be killed just for making Vader mad one time, and this definitely isn't helping the Imperial war machine. Worse is that when the lower ranking Imperial officers realize that they can easily get promoted by offing their superior, they will intentionally set up their superiors to fail so that they will be executed. They will screw over the Empire and have their superiors take the fall because they know Vader isn't really going to look into it, all so they can easily get promoted. Imagine there's a whole system of officers behaving like this. This is going to cripple the Empire significantly.

Then we have the humanocentrism. Yes humans are the most common species in the Star Wars galaxy, but surely they are outnumbered by all other species. By discriminating against non-humans the Empire is essentially discriminating against every other species in the entire galaxy. That's a huge core of intellectuals, officers, soldiers, etc. that the Empire isn't taking advantage of because of this. Imperial officers are not the best of the best, they're the best of one species. Rather they're the members of one species that are the best at backstabbing. This arbitrary discrimination isn't really doing them any favors.

Then we have the mismanagement of resources. The Empire put a massive amount of resources into projects like the Death Star but didn't improve quality of life in most places. Most planets in the galaxy that weren't outright attacked by the Empire were unchanged. The rebels had so many advantages partially because the Empire just didn't bring its resources to bear on them properly. Imperial moffs hoarded their personal fleets and armies so there could be no unified effort to scour the galaxy for rebels unless someone like Vader came in and made them do it. Imperial projects were stalled by the personal feuds of Imperial officers in charge.

You know there are a number of parallels we can make to the real life Soviet Union to drive this point home. Both the Empire and the Soviet Union are very militaristic states with very strict command economies and individuals who had significant amounts of power to the point where they could actually undermine the government. Especially in its last decades the Soviet Union's government became a power struggle between the KGB, the military, and the government as officials in those organizations overstepped their authority and were constantly fighting over resources for their personal gain. In a country like the United States an official like a general or a politician would be committing treason if they tried to abuse their authority and overstep what they were allowed to do, but in the Soviet Union officials with proper connections could exercise power and authority beyond what they were supposed to have. Many of these officials were constantly squandering Soviet resources trying to undermine each other. It's pretty similar to the Empire and its power grabbing officials having no real limit to their power.

Both civilizations weren't great about managing their resources. The Soviet Union was obviously very powerful and had a lot of resources at its disposal. It could build high tech military equipment and manage a massive military. It could make numerous scientific advancements in a number of fields. It could dominate a continental military pact. It could manage to have extensive social and welfare systems and universal healthcare. At the same time though the Soviet economy couldn't produce basic consumer goods. Its scientific research struggled with a lack of funding and government support when officials in charge stopped supporting these projects. Its living standards were consistently behind those of western countries. There were obviously a lot of resources available but they weren't always managed well. Similarly look at the Empire. It could build massive projects but couldn't manage basic control over numerous planets with rebel activity and failed to improve living standards across the galaxy.

They both had significant control over their economies. In the Soviet Union there was little private property, prices were set, companies were joint stock companies heavily controlled by the government, and even simple consumer goods had their production tightly controlled. The Empire didn't control the galactic economy quite this much, but Imperial interference in the economy was still quite significant. Corporations were either nationalized by the Empire, or heavily controlled through government oversight. The Empire put the intergalactic banking clan under government control. Basically the entire economy of the galaxy was made a simple extension of the Imperial war machine, and it suffered for it in a way it had never suffered under the Republic.

For its many many problems, and I can elaborate more if you want on some of these examples, it doesn't at all surprise me that this Empire would be completely unable to manage something like a search for force sensitives.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Ever notice exactly how many superweapons the Separatists built in just three years? It's more than like any other Star Wars faction ever.

They built the Malevolence.

They made that big underwater cannon that only worked on Mon Calamari.

They built that big hammer thing that would just fly up to soldiers and crush them to death.

They had the Dark Reaper (though it was actually built by the Sith) that could drain the energy from living things and use the energy to power lasers.

They had the cannon mounted on a tank that would only damage living things.

They made that blue gas on Naboo.

They had a laser that could tear atoms apart and were going to use it to destroy Naboo's sun.

They had invincible tanks that could only be destroyed by destroying the ground they were on.

They had a big bomb that could destroy planets.

The Geonosians came up with the initial Death Star designs.

Holy shit.

I forgot one. They had an army of fat aliens with arm cannons that they abducted from a space Native American tribe.

[Zanera]

An open flat field surrounded by your enemies that have height and cover doesn't seem like a good defensive position.

[The first Galactic Republic]

An open flat field surrounded by your enemies that have height and cover doesn't seem like a good defensive position.

How are the Ewoks going to break in? The AT-STs could only be destroyed in the forest. Chewbacca boarded one because he could get up on a tree and the other AT-STs were destroyed by traps in the forest. Stay out of the forest and none of these tactics work. Ewoks frequently ambushed Stormtroopers who weren't paying attention, but if they were all gathered around the bunker the Ewoks would lose this element of surprise. They'd have to charge across open ground. The rebel commandos used the Ewoks as a distraction and then snuck past the Imperials to get to the bunker. If all the Imperials are gathered by the generator how can the Rebels sneak by?

What movie were you watching? Nothing the heroes had really worked outside the forest.

[Ormata]

An open flat field surrounded by your enemies that have height and cover doesn't seem like a good defensive position.

How are the Ewoks going to break in? The AT-STs could only be destroyed in the forest. Chewbacca boarded one because he could get up on a tree and the other AT-STs were destroyed by traps in the forest. Stay out of the forest and none of these tactics work. Ewoks frequently ambushed Stormtroopers who weren't paying attention, but if they were all gathered around the bunker the Ewoks would lose this element of surprise. They'd have to charge across open ground. The rebel commandos used the Ewoks as a distraction and then snuck past the Imperials to get to the bunker. If all the Imperials are gathered by the generator how can the Rebels sneak by?

What movie were you watching? Nothing the heroes had really worked outside the forest.

I still question why napalm was never used.

[Zanera]

An open flat field surrounded by your enemies that have height and cover doesn't seem like a good defensive position.

How are the Ewoks going to break in? The AT-STs could only be destroyed in the forest. Chewbacca boarded one because he could get up on a tree and the other AT-STs were destroyed by traps in the forest. Stay out of the forest and none of these tactics work. Ewoks frequently ambushed Stormtroopers who weren't paying attention, but if they were all gathered around the bunker the Ewoks would lose this element of surprise. They'd have to charge across open ground. The rebel commandos used the Ewoks as a distraction and then snuck past the Imperials to get to the bunker. If all the Imperials are gathered by the generator how can the Rebels sneak by?

What movie were you watching? Nothing the heroes had really worked outside the forest.

Kinda sure it was Return of the Jedi. Could have been Attack of the Clones though...they're pretty similar movies...IDK if it was a Star Wars or Star Trek movie you were watching though, I can't really speak for someone I don't know.

Best YouTube clip there is besides overall video graphics quality is this, so you can judge the scene for yourself and argue over it from recent memory. Unless you watched the movie recently. Again, I can't really speak for other people very well.

[The first Galactic Republic]

How are the Ewoks going to break in? The AT-STs could only be destroyed in the forest. Chewbacca boarded one because he could get up on a tree and the other AT-STs were destroyed by traps in the forest. Stay out of the forest and none of these tactics work. Ewoks frequently ambushed Stormtroopers who weren't paying attention, but if they were all gathered around the bunker the Ewoks would lose this element of surprise. They'd have to charge across open ground. The rebel commandos used the Ewoks as a distraction and then snuck past the Imperials to get to the bunker. If all the Imperials are gathered by the generator how can the Rebels sneak by?

What movie were you watching? Nothing the heroes had really worked outside the forest.

Kinda sure it was Return of the Jedi. Could have been Attack of the Clones though...they're pretty similar movies...IDK if it was a Star Wars or Star Trek movie you were watching though, I can't really speak for someone I don't know.

Best YouTube clip there is besides overall video graphics quality is this, so you can judge the scene for yourself and argue over it from recent memory. Unless you watched the movie recently. Again, I can't really speak for other people very well.

Woah woah watch the force powers. Go cast your fancy Jedi powers somewhere else.

[Zanera]

Kinda sure it was Return of the Jedi. Could have been Attack of the Clones though...they're pretty similar movies...IDK if it was a Star Wars or Star Trek movie you were watching though, I can't really speak for someone I don't know.

Best YouTube clip there is besides overall video graphics quality is this, so you can judge the scene for yourself and argue over it from recent memory. Unless you watched the movie recently. Again, I can't really speak for other people very well.

Woah woah watch the force powers. Go cast your fancy Jedi powers somewhere else.

Looks better after kyber crystals. This just deathsticks and Dwemer mushrooms are good for you.

[Eol Sha]

Been playing SWTOR seriously for the first time in quite some time. I'm likin' it. Managed to fuck up the free KotFE and KotET booster tokens they give to F2P (Preferred in my case) players. Fuck.

[Alvecia]

Been playing SWTOR seriously for the first time in quite some time. I'm likin' it. Managed to fuck up the free KotFE and KotET booster tokens they give to F2P (Preferred in my case) players. Fuck.

I still have those. By the time they'd come out I was half way through maxing out characters from each class anyway, so I didn't need them.

I prefer playing throught the whole story anyway. Never liked starting things essentially mid way.

What class are you using atm?

[Eol Sha]

Been playing SWTOR seriously for the first time in quite some time. I'm likin' it. Managed to fuck up the free KotFE and KotET booster tokens they give to F2P (Preferred in my case) players. Fuck.

I still have those. By the time they'd come out I was half way through maxing out characters from each class anyway, so I didn't need them.

I prefer playing throught the whole story anyway. Never liked starting things essentially mid way.

What class are you using atm?

Well, I got six players, but I've only put work into two of them. My oldest character is Pellaa. She's a lvl. 37 Gunslinger smuggler. She's a smug, sarcastic, credit-loving Zabrak. My second "main" is Suniaha. She's a lvl. 26 (I think) Jedi shadow. She's devoted to the Order, kind, and I'm aiming to make her the model Jedi. I'm only on Chapter 1 of both characters.

I also have a lvl. 7 human Sith Marauder named Kreina, a lvl. 1 Twi'lek bounty hunter named Yunn'sara (she's from way back, I haven't even chosen an advanced class for her), a lvl. 6 Twi'lek Sith sorcereress named Vel'nera (she will be Suniaha's dark side mirror), and a lvl. 4 operative named Elyssara.

I used to have an Imperial Agent on a previous account. I think around the time that Shadow of Revan came out. Those were fun times.

Anyway, I'm currently running around Tatooine with Pellaa.

How about you, Alvecia?

[Alvecia]

Shit, I can't remember all their names. I've got a maxed out DPS Sith Sorcereress and tanky Sith Juggernaut (Warrior).

I got as far as completing the character stories for all the other classes, tending towards DPS as much as possible given I didn't intend on doing anything other than PvE with them. They all tend to be around the 55 mark, give or take.

I tend to play practical rather than Pure Lightside or Darkside. So everyone is pretty much neutral alignment.

I liked the Agent, Bounty Hunter and Inquisitor stories the best. Inq and Agent had the best stories, and I just really liked the dialogue options for the BH.
I was in the middle of re-running the BH with the intention of going all the way through the new expansions with a non-force user, but I got distracted by other games.

Edit: I'm at work atm so I can't go check up. I play on the English-European PvE servers.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Which class storyline from SWTOR does everyone think is the best?

[Alvecia]

Which class storyline from SWTOR does everyone think is the best?

Oooh, I'd probably go Inquisitor.
Agent comes a close second.

[Eol Sha]

Which class storyline from SWTOR does everyone think is the best?

I am so far from completing even one main storyline that I couldn't say, but Skavak is an asshole. A raging one at that.

[Lorkhan]

Which class storyline from SWTOR does everyone think is the best?

I only made it to level 22 with my smuggler, but it was a pleasant experience. Would love to get a desktop or new laptop so that I can run the game again. All of the classes have neat beginner stages, also.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Here's a fan theory on Dagobah.

Dagobah was always meant to be less the place where Yoda was hiding, and more the place where Luke discovered his true identity and found "rebirth". Luke crashed into this swampy womb and discovered Yoda, a helper that guided him through the process and then was discarded when his function was complete. Yoda was Luke's placenta, in a way. The trials of Jedi strength are contractions of labor as Luke is reborn as a new man. And now you see the added meaning of his failure at "the cave", the cave is clearly the birth canal where only he and his father had ever been (and his sister of course). He must confront this fact. His "failure at the cave" represents his failed first birth, as he essentially circumcises his father by cutting off his head, and finds that without his foreskin they are actually equals. So in leaving the cave he is "reborn" as a new creature, with a new intact foreskin of Jedi power.

It's all right there guys. The greatest twist in the Star Wars prequels, or any of the films for that matter, was the revelation that Dagobah was Padme's vagina.