Computer General Discussion Thread

[Bezombia]

Actually, more than 1% of computer owners built their computer.

And actually, a lot more than .01% of people just buy a car and drive it as it is. The American corvette and muscle car community is much larger than you'd think.

The World =/= The United States of America

The rest of the world is more pragmatic car-wise than americans, especially since a car is an expensive commodity and not everyone earns as much as an American. (although if you keep on going like you are, we soon will)

As for computers, the percentage cannot be a lot higher than that...i very rarely see a custom computer or know anyone who has one.

Well then you aren't looking. According to intel, there are 711 million PC gamers.

[Spoder]

Quadro unfortunately trumps Firepro.

Firepro certainly has the edge in raw performance, and Quadros are priced quite a bit higher.

But the amount of software you get with a Quadro is incredible, and Firepro cards still do not have OpenCL support.

The high school in my town has all macs except for the graphic design room, which has (if I remember correctly, the person who told me this didn't directly work in the room so idk) Dells with Firepros and i5-2500s.

This isn't really relevant, but *shrugs*

When it's the best you can get, you get it.

But Quadros have the edge in the professional design world.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia_sof ... uadro.html

It might be a biased source, but it is painfully clear just how large of an effect software has, proprietary or not.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Right, but what I'm saying is that given the legacy of Macs actually being already good enough for professional design that's what many companies use still.

We can sit here and talk about all the technicalities behind why Macs and Windows are becoming irrelevant for professional design but the truth is that Macs left their mark in design since early on and many people are of the mentality of "if it's not broken don't fix it". Macs may be broken in our opinion for other stuff and even for design, but for the customer's mentality it isn't; and in today's market that's all that really matters really.

We're not talking about market mentality.

That is the difference between people who know shit about computers and people who do not.

The people who know their shit don't give a fuck for market mentality, and only care about which system is, in the end, superior.

Right, and I am never going to suggest Macs are superior to other brands of computers.

But I will say that different markets have different needs. And technically speaking, while the Mac and Windows specs are the same, people still look at Macs as designer material. Now, fanboys? Screw them, they can be as loud as they want but in the end it ends up coming to the question: what do I need?

[Bezombia]

The high school in my town has all macs except for the graphic design room, which has (if I remember correctly, the person who told me this didn't directly work in the room so idk) Dells with Firepros and i5-2500s.

This isn't really relevant, but *shrugs*

When it's the best you can get, you get it.

But Quadros have the edge in the professional design world.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia_sof ... uadro.html

It might be a biased source, but it is painfully clear just how large of an effect software has, proprietary or not.

All right, I'll concede that point. I didn't really realize that Nvidia had all that shit under their belt.

I'm also wondering how long it will be until they run out of words that end with the "-ex" sound.

[Spoder]

Actually, more than 1% of computer owners built their computer.

And actually, a lot more than .01% of people just buy a car and drive it as it is. The American corvette and muscle car community is much larger than you'd think.

The World =/= The United States of America

The rest of the world is more pragmatic car-wise than americans, especially since a car is an expensive commodity and not everyone earns as much as an American. (although if you keep on going like you are, we soon will)

As for computers, the percentage cannot be a lot higher than that...i very rarely see a custom computer or know anyone who has one.

Well we are talking about American prices and products.

How are they "more pragmatic"?

In Europe, the only fast and powerful cars you will see cost as much as a house, and for no reason other than their brand name.

They'll have tons of complicated dress ups, and strange locations for components all in the effort that you will have to go to them to fix your car.

You'll have better luck fixing a 67' Camaro in your own garage than in somebody else's.

[The British Galactic Empire]

Every complex industrial product is modular....

A car is modular, they have parts that can (and often have to) be replaced. Different models have different engines for example.

Also you can build a car from spare parts much like a computer. Caterham even sells car chassis for which you then provide the engine.

So you can build a custom car, but 99,99% of people much rather prefer to go to the stand and purchase a ready-to-go model.

The computer is essentially the same.

Yet the scale of the effort, knowledge, skills, material, and time needed are completely different.

Building a car equires a grasp of engineering and trades. Building a PC requires no such skills and knowledge. All that is done is screwing in screws and plugging in cables, with only two instruction manuals that need to be followed. There's a uniform design that motherboards and cases have, whereas the blueprints of a house can be completely different.

Moreover, a car takes months to build. A PC requires only an hour.

Furthermore, there are more materials that a car needs than a PC does.

It's like arguing that a pillowfight is the same as a UFC fight.

It's like arguing that a pillowfight is the same as a UFC fight.

No its not, the process is very similar. In fact the reason for Japanese car quality was, for many years, the dedication they put into certifying that they had quality parts.

The process is similar, the scale is different.

Also, that is a very biased opinion. There are a lot of people who can fix or build a car and have no idea of how to build a computer. There are even more people who have no idea how to do either and don't really want to learn.

The cases are similar even if the scale is not.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Every complex industrial product is modular....

A car is modular, they have parts that can (and often have to) be replaced. Different models have different engines for example.

Also you can build a car from spare parts much like a computer. Caterham even sells car chassis for which you then provide the engine.

So you can build a custom car, but 99,99% of people much rather prefer to go to the stand and purchase a ready-to-go model.

The computer is essentially the same.

Yet the scale of the effort, knowledge, skills, material, and time needed are completely different.

Building a car equires a grasp of engineering and trades. Building a PC requires no such skills and knowledge. All that is done is screwing in screws and plugging in cables, with only two instruction manuals that need to be followed. There's a uniform design that motherboards and cases have, whereas the blueprints of a car can be completely different.

Moreover, a car takes months to build. A PC requires only an hour.

Furthermore, there are more materials that a car needs than a PC does.

It's like arguing that a pillowfight is the same as a UFC fight.

[Spoder]

Yet the scale of the effort, knowledge, skills, material, and time needed are completely different.

Building a car equires a grasp of engineering and trades. Building a PC requires no such skills and knowledge. All that is done is screwing in screws and plugging in cables, with only two instruction manuals that need to be followed. There's a uniform design that motherboards and cases have, whereas the blueprints of a car can be completely different.

Moreover, a car takes months to build. A PC requires only an hour.

Furthermore, there are more materials that a car needs than a PC does.

It's like arguing that a pillowfight is the same as a UFC fight.

He's right though.

Building a car has more parts in general. Not to mention it requires a lot of specialized tools.

[Bezombia]

Yet the scale of the effort, knowledge, skills, material, and time needed are completely different.

Building a car equires a grasp of engineering and trades. Building a PC requires no such skills and knowledge. All that is done is screwing in screws and plugging in cables, with only two instruction manuals that need to be followed. There's a uniform design that motherboards and cases have, whereas the blueprints of a car can be completely different.

Moreover, a car takes months to build. A PC requires only an hour.

Furthermore, there are more materials that a car needs than a PC does.

It's like arguing that a pillowfight is the same as a UFC fight.

Okay fine I'll play devil's advocate.

When I built my PC, I had to follow three instruction manuals. The case's, the mobo's, and the psu's.

[Czechanada]

Yet the scale of the effort, knowledge, skills, material, and time needed are completely different.

Building a car equires a grasp of engineering and trades. Building a PC requires no such skills and knowledge. All that is done is screwing in screws and plugging in cables, with only two instruction manuals that need to be followed. There's a uniform design that motherboards and cases have, whereas the blueprints of a house can be completely different.

Moreover, a car takes months to build. A PC requires only an hour.

Furthermore, there are more materials that a car needs than a PC does.

It's like arguing that a pillowfight is the same as a UFC fight.

It's like arguing that a pillowfight is the same as a UFC fight.

No its not, the process is very similar. In fact the reason for Japanese car quality was, for many years, the dedication they put into certifying that they had quality parts.

The process is similar, the scale is different.

Also, that is a very biased opinion. There are a lot of people who can fix or build a car and have no idea of how to build a computer. There are even more people who have no idea how to do either and don't really want to learn.

The cases are similar even if the scale is not.

Aren't engines extremely heavy? Don't they require pulleys in order to install or remove them in a chassis? That requires a specific location and special equipment. The process is not similar.

[The British Galactic Empire]

The World =/= The United States of America

The rest of the world is more pragmatic car-wise than americans, especially since a car is an expensive commodity and not everyone earns as much as an American. (although if you keep on going like you are, we soon will)

As for computers, the percentage cannot be a lot higher than that...i very rarely see a custom computer or know anyone who has one.

Well we are talking about American prices and products.

How are they "more pragmatic"?

In Europe, the only fast and powerful cars you will see cost as much as a house, and for no reason other than their brand name.

They'll have tons of complicated dress ups, and strange locations for components all in the effort that you will have to go to them to fix your car.

You'll have better luck fixing a 67' Camaro in your own garage than in somebody else's.

Good god, no no no. European cars are NOT the same as an american car. Your cars cannot even go on a roundabout without crashing into something. A Mercedes or a BMW, or even a Jag is a step above any american car, they are extremely competent cars that will outrun any american model in a real racetrack (one that has curves...) thanks to superior electronics and efficient engines.

[Czechanada]

Yet the scale of the effort, knowledge, skills, material, and time needed are completely different.

Building a car requires a grasp of engineering and trades. Building a PC requires no such skills and knowledge. All that is done is screwing in screws and plugging in cables, with only two instruction manuals that need to be followed. There's a uniform design that motherboards and cases have, whereas the blueprints of a car can be completely different.

Moreover, a car takes months to build. A PC requires only an hour.

Furthermore, there are more materials that a car needs than a PC does.

It's like arguing that a pillowfight is the same as a UFC fight.

I don't understand your disbelief.

[Bezombia]

Well we are talking about American prices and products.

How are they "more pragmatic"?

In Europe, the only fast and powerful cars you will see cost as much as a house, and for no reason other than their brand name.

They'll have tons of complicated dress ups, and strange locations for components all in the effort that you will have to go to them to fix your car.

You'll have better luck fixing a 67' Camaro in your own garage than in somebody else's.

Good god, no no no. European cars are NOT the same as an american car. Your cars cannot even go on a roundabout without crashing into something.

My Dodge Stratus disagrees.

[The British Galactic Empire]

No its not, the process is very similar. In fact the reason for Japanese car quality was, for many years, the dedication they put into certifying that they had quality parts.

The process is similar, the scale is different.

Also, that is a very biased opinion. There are a lot of people who can fix or build a car and have no idea of how to build a computer. There are even more people who have no idea how to do either and don't really want to learn.

The cases are similar even if the scale is not.

Aren't engines extremely heavy? Don't they require pulleys in order to install or remove them in a chassis? That requires a specific location and special equipment. The process is not similar.

They do.

But again, you continue to argue on the scale of the thing.

The process: the assembly of a modular product whose quality depends the sum of the parts that are used in it, is exactly the same.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I don't understand your disbelief.

I'm pretty sure you need to have some knowledge of the parts you're putting in and how they go, even if it's not that obvious.

[Czechanada]

Okay fine I'll play devil's advocate.

When I built my PC, I had to follow three instruction manuals. The case's, the mobo's, and the psu's.

That must have been terribly difficult. I hope you took an extended vacation to relax your mind since it must have been strained following such a complex procedure.

[Bezombia]

I don't understand your disbelief.

I'm pretty sure you need to have some knowledge of the parts you're putting in and how they go, even if it's not that obvious.

Not really. It really is just "put this in whatever it fits in and then make sure it doesn't fall out".

If you can plug in a USB cable, you can plug in a graphics card.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Good god, no no no. European cars are NOT the same as an american car. Your cars cannot even go on a roundabout without crashing into something.

My Dodge Stratus disagrees.

Yea, when it comes to cars I'm more inclined to buy an American or a Japanese car rather than an European.

It's not so much the control though. After all, even the Crown Victoria - which is a piece of crap car when it comes to design - had decent handling. But the fact that the parts are much much cheaper than an European car.

If you blow out your fuel pump on an American or Japanese car? around 40 dollars at the junkyards. An European car? They end up costing up to 200 dollars, depending on how rare and new you want it.

[Czechanada]

I don't understand your disbelief.

I'm pretty sure you need to have some knowledge of the parts you're putting in and how they go, even if it's not that obvious.

The manuals explain everything on where they need to go.

As for knowledge and skills, I was referring to the fact that people don't need to know physics and know how to solder things and such.

It's just a matter of learning what parts are needed, which can be achieved through resources like magazines or the Internet. It's like shopping for a TV or car. Higher numbers and letters are better.

[Bezombia]

Okay fine I'll play devil's advocate.

When I built my PC, I had to follow three instruction manuals. The case's, the mobo's, and the psu's.

That must have been terribly difficult. I hope you took an extended vacation to relax your mind since it must have been strained following such a complex procedure.

Yep. In fact, it was so difficult that I short circuited my own brain. I was babbling about how 4K is a fraud for weeks.

[The British Galactic Empire]

Good god, no no no. European cars are NOT the same as an american car. Your cars cannot even go on a roundabout without crashing into something.

My Dodge Stratus disagrees.

Well, your classic cars can't, maybe the modern one's can. My bad.

In any case, i would never trade my jolly BMW for any American car.

The German do a lot of things wrong, but they make good cars.

[Bezombia]

This is getting so off topic that I, in all my OP godliness, am formally banning all discussion of cars.
Can I do that? Uh...yes I can!

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm pretty sure you need to have some knowledge of the parts you're putting in and how they go, even if it's not that obvious.

The manuals explain everything on where they need to go.

As for knowledge and skills, I was referring to the fact that people don't need to know physics and know how to solder things and such.

It's just a matter of learning what parts are needed, which can be achieved through resources like magazines or the Internet. It's like shopping for a TV or car. Higher numbers and letters are better.

My dad's been working on cars since forever and he only knows so much about physics as the average high schooler...

[Bezombia]

The manuals explain everything on where they need to go.

As for knowledge and skills, I was referring to the fact that people don't need to know physics and know how to solder things and such.

It's just a matter of learning what parts are needed, which can be achieved through resources like magazines or the Internet. It's like shopping for a TV or car. Higher numbers and letters are better.

My dad's been working on cars since forever and he only knows so much about physics as the average high schooler...

That just reinforced what Czech was saying.

But, again ,ban on cars. Remember.

[Spoder]

Well we are talking about American prices and products.

How are they "more pragmatic"?

In Europe, the only fast and powerful cars you will see cost as much as a house, and for no reason other than their brand name.

They'll have tons of complicated dress ups, and strange locations for components all in the effort that you will have to go to them to fix your car.

You'll have better luck fixing a 67' Camaro in your own garage than in somebody else's.

Good god, no no no. European cars are NOT the same as an american car. Your cars cannot even go on a roundabout without crashing into something. A Mercedes or a BMW, or even a Jag is a step above any american car, they are extremely competent cars that will outrun any american model in a real racetrack (one that has curves...) thanks to superior electronics and efficient engines.

Actually, a circle track car is not very hard to build.

Electronics are for noobies.

They will not outrun any American car on a real racetrack.

Downforce is not everything. Efficient engines is meaningless to a fast racer.

A small Camaro with an LSX 454 already has as much horsepower as an Aventador yet weighs considerably less.

It has slightly more torque, but the speed will be much greater. The Aventador's computer is all that gives it an advantage. But unless the track is one where neither car will have room to accelerate past 80mph, the Camaro wins.

American cars are superior to European cars on the GT track, and have been almost every time they show up.

You call the SLS the superior touring car?

A 'vette will go faster, be cheaper, but stay just as comfortable and smooth, and more importantly you can modify it as needed.