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The Warhammer 40.000/Fantasy Discussion Thread Mk.II

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Are you picking up the new Shadowspear set?

Yes, I am, or I already have it!
1
10%
I'm still on the fence.
5
50%
No, I'm not interested in the set / the armies in it.
4
40%
 
Total votes : 10

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The Huskar Social Union
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37124
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:50 pm

Scary Spooky Red Mans! Ohhhh! An Atheist Irishman from Belfast Egalitarian Loyal to Dragonstone

Mine is like a bent over cactus, with a harrier jump jet underneath

Yeh: The Red Agenda, Purging the Xenos, Not being a prick, Vidya Gaemz, Art, Science, History, Old Gregg, Blondes, Redheads, Tattooed girls, Erecting fortifications, Tanks.
Neh: The Blue Agenda, Being a prick, Xenos, Racism, National/Religious wankery, Zealots, Gatekeeping, Alt-right/SJW Snowflakes, Random lists, Dismantling Fortifications, Cabbage.

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Torrocca
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Posts: 21488
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:51 pm

The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness wrote:New Skaven and Flesh Eater Courts coming next week!


>Skaven

No such thing exists. Why are you spreading these decrepit lies within our lands?
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
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Kowani
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Posts: 4287
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Kowani » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:52 pm

The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness wrote:
Impaled Nazarene wrote:I see the words "Age of Sigmar" and I can feel thousands of angry people posting their discontent on various websites.

People are still upset about Age of Sigmar?

It’s 40K, people are always upset about something.
Which is why Khorne is the real patron of GW.
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Impaled Nazarene
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Impaled Nazarene » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:52 pm

The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness wrote:
Impaled Nazarene wrote:I see the words "Age of Sigmar" and I can feel thousands of angry people posting their discontent on various websites.

People are still upset about Age of Sigmar?

From what I heard the mechanics and rules are absolute ass compared to Fantasy.
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Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."

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Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
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The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness
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Founded: Dec 02, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:56 pm

Impaled Nazarene wrote:
The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness wrote:People are still upset about Age of Sigmar?

From what I heard the mechanics and rules are absolute ass compared to Fantasy.

They're not.
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Crookfur
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Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Crookfur » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:47 pm

Torrocca wrote:
The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness wrote:New Skaven and Flesh Eater Courts coming next week!


>Skaven

No such thing exists. Why are you spreading these decrepit lies within our lands?

I know aos is generally focused on smaller model counts but it still strikes me as a bit weird that the skaven in the box seems to just be a few super weapons/monsters rather than ye olde skaven horde.

I suppose its one way to contrast them with what looks like some kind of ghoul army(not really kept up with aos so I'm assuming these are some kind of undead faction).
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The Huskar Social Union
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37124
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:31 am

Image
Scary Spooky Red Mans! Ohhhh! An Atheist Irishman from Belfast Egalitarian Loyal to Dragonstone

Mine is like a bent over cactus, with a harrier jump jet underneath

Yeh: The Red Agenda, Purging the Xenos, Not being a prick, Vidya Gaemz, Art, Science, History, Old Gregg, Blondes, Redheads, Tattooed girls, Erecting fortifications, Tanks.
Neh: The Blue Agenda, Being a prick, Xenos, Racism, National/Religious wankery, Zealots, Gatekeeping, Alt-right/SJW Snowflakes, Random lists, Dismantling Fortifications, Cabbage.

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Jetan
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Posts: 12075
Founded: Mar 07, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jetan » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:27 am

Crookfur wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
>Skaven

No such thing exists. Why are you spreading these decrepit lies within our lands?

I know aos is generally focused on smaller model counts but it still strikes me as a bit weird that the skaven in the box seems to just be a few super weapons/monsters rather than ye olde skaven horde.

I suppose its one way to contrast them with what looks like some kind of ghoul army(not really kept up with aos so I'm assuming these are some kind of undead faction).

Bigger models have bigger price tags when these will be released in units.
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The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:37 am

The Skaven in the box set are Clan Skryre, specifically, and the bigger models are the only plastic ones they have (Jezzails etc are still resin or metal, I believe)
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Baltenstein
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9689
Founded: Jan 25, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Baltenstein » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:38 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:


The whole "What does your average Imperial actually know about Chaos" has always been treated with considerable authorial variation in the fluff.

Sometimes the Inquisition orders Exerminatus on an entire planet because there might be somebody on it who might have heard some rumors about strange warp creatures.
And sometimes it's as if every lowly Guardsman is a well-read expert in demonology and Chaos Legions.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away.


THE NORTH REMEMBERS

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21488
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:44 pm

Baltenstein wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:


The whole "What does your average Imperial actually know about Chaos" has always been treated with considerable authorial variation in the fluff.

Sometimes the Inquisition orders Exerminatus on an entire planet because there might be somebody on it who might have heard some rumors about strange warp creatures.
And sometimes it's as if every lowly Guardsman is a well-read expert in demonology and Chaos Legions.


I'd chalk that simply up to the vastness of the Imperium, tbh. Some Imperial Guard from the recently-created Cadian Asteroid Belt would undoubtedly be much more familiarized and knowledgable on Chaos than, say, an Imperial Guard on Terra. Ditto for why Inquisitorial responses are so wildly varied.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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The Huskar Social Union
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37124
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:14 pm

Baltenstein wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:


The whole "What does your average Imperial actually know about Chaos" has always been treated with considerable authorial variation in the fluff.

Sometimes the Inquisition orders Exerminatus on an entire planet because there might be somebody on it who might have heard some rumors about strange warp creatures.
And sometimes it's as if every lowly Guardsman is a well-read expert in demonology and Chaos Legions.

"The fuck is that thing!?"
"I believe sergeant that is actually a greater warp demon known as the Keeper of Secrets, a greater demon in service to the Chaos god of ecstasy, depravity and pleasure Slaanesh"
"....the fuck you know that"
Scary Spooky Red Mans! Ohhhh! An Atheist Irishman from Belfast Egalitarian Loyal to Dragonstone

Mine is like a bent over cactus, with a harrier jump jet underneath

Yeh: The Red Agenda, Purging the Xenos, Not being a prick, Vidya Gaemz, Art, Science, History, Old Gregg, Blondes, Redheads, Tattooed girls, Erecting fortifications, Tanks.
Neh: The Blue Agenda, Being a prick, Xenos, Racism, National/Religious wankery, Zealots, Gatekeeping, Alt-right/SJW Snowflakes, Random lists, Dismantling Fortifications, Cabbage.

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Crookfur
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10346
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Crookfur » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:37 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:
The whole "What does your average Imperial actually know about Chaos" has always been treated with considerable authorial variation in the fluff.

Sometimes the Inquisition orders Exerminatus on an entire planet because there might be somebody on it who might have heard some rumors about strange warp creatures.
And sometimes it's as if every lowly Guardsman is a well-read expert in demonology and Chaos Legions.


I'd chalk that simply up to the vastness of the Imperium, tbh. Some Imperial Guard from the recently-created Cadian Asteroid Belt would undoubtedly be much more familiarized and knowledgable on Chaos than, say, an Imperial Guard on Terra. Ditto for why Inquisitorial responses are so wildly varied.

IIRC there is a general knowledge that servants of the Archenemy exist and whilst the heresy and the existence of the traitor legions might not be common knowledge they certainly haven't been scrubbed from the records in the way a lot of stuff has. As such I expect most commisars and all but the most junior of gaurd officers know sonething about them.
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Hurdergaryp
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28489
Founded: Jul 10, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Hurdergaryp » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:36 pm

Crookfur wrote:
Torrocca wrote:I'd chalk that simply up to the vastness of the Imperium, tbh. Some Imperial Guard from the recently-created Cadian Asteroid Belt would undoubtedly be much more familiarized and knowledgable on Chaos than, say, an Imperial Guard on Terra. Ditto for why Inquisitorial responses are so wildly varied.

IIRC there is a general knowledge that servants of the Archenemy exist and whilst the heresy and the existence of the traitor legions might not be common knowledge they certainly haven't been scrubbed from the records in the way a lot of stuff has. As such I expect most commisars and all but the most junior of gaurd officers know sonething about them.

The crawling, unending forces of Chaos, always willing to get things going in the regular universe. Every time is party time when you are a manifestation of Chaos. Join Chaos now!

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Chan Island
Minister
 
Posts: 2646
Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:35 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:
The whole "What does your average Imperial actually know about Chaos" has always been treated with considerable authorial variation in the fluff.

Sometimes the Inquisition orders Exerminatus on an entire planet because there might be somebody on it who might have heard some rumors about strange warp creatures.
And sometimes it's as if every lowly Guardsman is a well-read expert in demonology and Chaos Legions.

"The fuck is that thing!?"
"I believe sergeant that is actually a greater warp demon known as the Keeper of Secrets, a greater demon in service to the Chaos god of ecstasy, depravity and pleasure Slaanesh"
"....the fuck you know that"


"I read it in a book."
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Herador
Negotiator
 
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Founded: Mar 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Herador » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:59 am

Baltenstein wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:


The whole "What does your average Imperial actually know about Chaos" has always been treated with considerable authorial variation in the fluff.

Sometimes the Inquisition orders Exerminatus on an entire planet because there might be somebody on it who might have heard some rumors about strange warp creatures.
And sometimes it's as if every lowly Guardsman is a well-read expert in demonology and Chaos Legions.

I always liked Abnett's approach in... whichever Gaunts Ghost novel had the Regiment going back to Gereon. The one demon we ever get to really see in combat is horrifying, wrecks everything, and fucks the whole battle up. But, no one brings everything to a screeching halt and ends an entire front of the Crusade to kill everyone involved.
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Political Spectrum
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Baltenstein
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9689
Founded: Jan 25, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Baltenstein » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:34 am

Herador wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:
The whole "What does your average Imperial actually know about Chaos" has always been treated with considerable authorial variation in the fluff.

Sometimes the Inquisition orders Exerminatus on an entire planet because there might be somebody on it who might have heard some rumors about strange warp creatures.
And sometimes it's as if every lowly Guardsman is a well-read expert in demonology and Chaos Legions.

I always liked Abnett's approach in... whichever Gaunts Ghost novel had the Regiment going back to Gereon. The one demon we ever get to really see in combat is horrifying, wrecks everything, and fucks the whole battle up. But, no one brings everything to a screeching halt and ends an entire front of the Crusade to kill everyone involved.


Yeah, the fluff from the 2nd Edition Codex Imperialis, which, if I'm not mistaken, was the fluff source where Imperial policies on that matter were portrayed at their most extreme ("Every survivor of a battle against the forces of Chaos gets executed, every Space Marine gets his memory erased, and if there isn't complete certainty that no witnesses exist anymore, drop an Exterminatus on the entire planet") was progressively toned down in later fluff publications. The writers probably figured that it would cause too many contradictions and unresolved questions if the Imperial approach were to be that absolute.
That said, I can totally see the Ordo Malleus disappearing Astra Militarum regiments from uneducated backwater planets after examining them and deciding that they were too heavily contaminated by their contact to Chaos but in general, I imagine that most Space Marine chapters and Astra Militarum authorities will be aware of Chaos and have some notion or basic knowledge about its forces and capabilities.
Especially now, where the realm of Chaos pretty much reaches from one end of the Milky Way to the other.
Last edited by Baltenstein on Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away.


THE NORTH REMEMBERS

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Jetan
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Posts: 12075
Founded: Mar 07, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jetan » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:08 am

The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness wrote:
Impaled Nazarene wrote:From what I heard the mechanics and rules are absolute ass compared to Fantasy.

They're not.

Yes they are. The fluff too.
Second Finn, after Imm
........Геть Росію.........
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Beholder's Lair - a hobby blog
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The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness
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Founded: Dec 02, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:35 am

Jetan wrote:
The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness wrote:They're not.

Yes they are. The fluff too.

Nope, they're not. You might not like it, yourself, but I'm honestly pretty sick and tired of getting screamed at for committing the Thought Crime of having Wrong Bad Fun with my little plastic toy soldiers.
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Such a cool time I select, looking out my window, and that's that

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Jetan
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Posts: 12075
Founded: Mar 07, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jetan » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:47 am

The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness wrote:
Jetan wrote:Yes they are. The fluff too.

Nope, they're not. You might not like it, yourself, but I'm honestly pretty sick and tired of getting screamed at for committing the Thought Crime of having Wrong Bad Fun with my little plastic toy soldiers.

Firstly, I'm not screaming at anyone. Secondly, this is one of those rare cases where your fun (AoS) is detrimental to other people's fun (WFB), so, yeah. You might like it, yourself, but that doesn't make it equal to Fantasy.
Second Finn, after Imm
........Геть Росію.........
Україна вільна і єдина
Beholder's Lair - a hobby blog
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The Biggles Syndicate
Diplomat
 
Posts: 565
Founded: May 18, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Biggles Syndicate » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:49 am

I heard there's a book with the Rangdan coming out with a few other short stories, including Morty and pre-finding Gman. Where can I get them?

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The Huskar Social Union
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37124
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:03 am

The Biggles Syndicate wrote:I heard there's a book with the Rangdan coming out with a few other short stories, including Morty and pre-finding Gman. Where can I get them?

From the Black Library most likely.

Probably Amazon too
Scary Spooky Red Mans! Ohhhh! An Atheist Irishman from Belfast Egalitarian Loyal to Dragonstone

Mine is like a bent over cactus, with a harrier jump jet underneath

Yeh: The Red Agenda, Purging the Xenos, Not being a prick, Vidya Gaemz, Art, Science, History, Old Gregg, Blondes, Redheads, Tattooed girls, Erecting fortifications, Tanks.
Neh: The Blue Agenda, Being a prick, Xenos, Racism, National/Religious wankery, Zealots, Gatekeeping, Alt-right/SJW Snowflakes, Random lists, Dismantling Fortifications, Cabbage.

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The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 29038
Founded: Dec 02, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:55 am

Jetan wrote:
The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness wrote:Nope, they're not. You might not like it, yourself, but I'm honestly pretty sick and tired of getting screamed at for committing the Thought Crime of having Wrong Bad Fun with my little plastic toy soldiers.

Firstly, I'm not screaming at anyone. Secondly, this is one of those rare cases where your fun (AoS) is detrimental to other people's fun (WFB), so, yeah. You might like it, yourself, but that doesn't make it equal to Fantasy.

Nah, but every time someone mentions AoS there's always someone jumping out of the woodwork to tell everyone how awful it is.

It is, in fact, quite detrimental towards the fun of people who enjoy AoS. It's perfectly fine that you prefer a game with blocks of 100 miniatures facing off against blocks of a good ole 200 skaven slave miniatures - others don't. Doesn't mean that the system that doesn't feature that is ass. The continues circlejerk in parts of the community about how awful it all is because it isn't WHFB is extremely tiresome and usually founded on the game as it was on release to boot.
Last edited by The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness on Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TG me!
Discord available on request as well
Or join the Mentor Discord server!

Such a cool time I select, looking out my window, and that's that

The worlding of the words is AMARANTH.

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Jetan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12075
Founded: Mar 07, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jetan » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:34 am

The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness wrote:
Jetan wrote:Firstly, I'm not screaming at anyone. Secondly, this is one of those rare cases where your fun (AoS) is detrimental to other people's fun (WFB), so, yeah. You might like it, yourself, but that doesn't make it equal to Fantasy.

Nah, but every time someone mentions AoS there's always someone jumping out of the woodwork to tell everyone how awful it is.

It is, in fact, quite detrimental towards the fun of people who enjoy AoS. It's perfectly fine that you prefer a game with blocks of 100 miniatures facing off against blocks of a good ole 200 skaven slave miniatures - others don't. Doesn't mean that the system that doesn't feature that is ass. The continues circlejerk in parts of the community about how awful it all is because it isn't WHFB is extremely tiresome and usually founded on the game as it was on release to boot.

I will grant you that AoS is much better now than on release, but beyond that... If AoS was released on it's own as a somewhat simplified skirmish game set in the Old World it'd be fine. A bit too 40Kish, but in general fine. It wasn't released like that though. They killed WFB to make room for AoS, making it the replacement of WFB. And it sucks at that.

More over, dozens of minis a block was an 8th edition issue that needed fixing anyway. Blocks are integral to the game, them being humongous is not.
Last edited by Jetan on Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
Second Finn, after Imm
........Геть Росію.........
Україна вільна і єдина
Beholder's Lair - a hobby blog
27 years old, patriotic Finnish guy interested in history. Hobbies include miniatures, all kinds of games, books, anime and manga.
Always open to TGs. Pro/Against

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Impaled Nazarene
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7062
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Impaled Nazarene » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:41 pm

Baltenstein wrote:
Herador wrote:I always liked Abnett's approach in... whichever Gaunts Ghost novel had the Regiment going back to Gereon. The one demon we ever get to really see in combat is horrifying, wrecks everything, and fucks the whole battle up. But, no one brings everything to a screeching halt and ends an entire front of the Crusade to kill everyone involved.


Yeah, the fluff from the 2nd Edition Codex Imperialis, which, if I'm not mistaken, was the fluff source where Imperial policies on that matter were portrayed at their most extreme ("Every survivor of a battle against the forces of Chaos gets executed, every Space Marine gets his memory erased, and if there isn't complete certainty that no witnesses exist anymore, drop an Exterminatus on the entire planet") was progressively toned down in later fluff publications. The writers probably figured that it would cause too many contradictions and unresolved questions if the Imperial approach were to be that absolute.
That said, I can totally see the Ordo Malleus disappearing Astra Militarum regiments from uneducated backwater planets after examining them and deciding that they were too heavily contaminated by their contact to Chaos but in general, I imagine that most Space Marine chapters and Astra Militarum authorities will be aware of Chaos and have some notion or basic knowledge about its forces and capabilities.
Especially now, where the realm of Chaos pretty much reaches from one end of the Milky Way to the other.

Wiping Astartes memories sounds really bad unless they get exposed to some really heavy and infectious chaos shit. I've seen media where your standard Tac Marines know their shit. Not like detailed inquisition level knowledge on every daemon but more than enough to spot a daemon know what to do and how not to get wrecked.
Non-binary Aromantic Asexual Asperger's Syndrome Anarchist
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."

-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."

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