Halo vs. Star Wars: Who would win?

[The Rebel Alliances]

I have read the entire argument here. While you may concede that the UNSC and Covies are easily defeated by the Star Wars universe your argument that the Flood will consume all is quite entertaining considering they have been defeated by the same UNSC and Covies you just admitted that Star Wars would wipe the floor with. So the Flood is a poor side to take here.

As stated a single flood spore can destroy a planet. But Star Wars does destroy planets and really could care less about it. When flood are glassed they are dead and useless and do not spread. At least the ones who are glassed. It takes the Covies and entire fleet to do this. Star Wars can do the same thing with a single ship. And if its the Empire we are talking about here. Entire planet is gone in SECONDS with the Death Star.

Flood success record is non existant and just about any Star Wars civilization due to sheer scale and capabilities would triumph over the Flood.

So let it be known no Flood invasion shall ever conquer that Galaxy Far, Far away.

Flood would not conquer anything, just consume then die of starvation. Sad existense really. Pretty much, when they win, they lose, and vice versa.

See, you keep saying that. But lets say the Flood overrun say Tatooine. Empire destroys Tatooine. Any flood survive? Nope. Wait! They must have been able to escape in ships! No, Empire destroys those too. So in effect all Flood life that existed on Tatooine is dead. And does not infect anything else. All empire has to do is repeat. Until each flood is dead. Flood have no Ships of thier own. They have nothing but infantry forces. And no way to retaliate really.

I mean, come on. They got as far as they did in Halo as a plot device. If Empire invades and fights them on foot. I can see Flodd winning. But that wont happen.

[Wisconsin9]

Which for the purposes of this discussion is all that really matters, isn't it?

No b/c ancient humanity could have made SW look like kids on a playground. They could have also had sticks. Their "victory" is not relevant due to lack of info.

What makes you think Ancient Humanity could beat the Empire?

[Galnius]

A bit? It is impossible to finish off. That is why the only way to destroy it is by killing life universally.

The flood have LOST. AGAIN AND AGAIN. In the books.In the games. In the comics. They ALWAYS lost their wars. Every time. IF the flood were the great and powerful beings people claim, they would NOT have lost to ancient humans. They would NOT have lost to the forerunners. They would NOT have lost to a shattered covenant and broken UNSC. BUT THEY DID. The flood may be around for a long time. But even smallpox got wiped out with 20th century earth tech. It was, and only now exists as research samples in 2 countries. It may take centuries, even millenia, to wipe out the flood. BUT it CAN happen. They can be contained. They can be pursued by droids that they cannot overcome. They can be managed, and in time possibly cured or vaccinated against having your nervous system hijacked (it happened with Sgt. Johnson, which proves it CAN happen). The SW AI is much more competent than the Forerunner AI (rampancy is never seen in movies).The totalitarian state would not hesitate to eradicate planets that may contain flood, or use superweapons to outright destroy them. But even in conventional warfare, the flood lost. This also hasn't considered the empires large bioweapons or SW nanorobotics. And in general I'd say nanorobots > flood, since flood can't just gobble them like pez.

[The Legion of War]

Which for the purposes of this discussion is all that really matters, isn't it?

No b/c ancient humanity could have made SW look like kids on a playground. They could have also had sticks. Their "victory" is not relevant due to lack of info.

First of all it's not a "victory. It just a victory, no bullshit quotes. They won, because they survived. That's a win against the Flood, because that's the end goal.

Two, we don't know enough about Ancient Humanity to say whether they are more or less advanced than the GE. All we know is that Flood defeat IS possible.

Hell the Didact was on the right path to beating the Flood. In Halo 4 it's mentioned that the Composer would have made them immune to the Flood. The Didact simply didn't have the numbers nor the time to halt the Flood's progression. The Forerunners "panicked" I suppose and hit the big red button (a.k.a. The Halo Array).

[Galnius]

No b/c ancient humanity could have made SW look like kids on a playground. They could have also had sticks. Their "victory" is not relevant due to lack of info.

First of all it's not a "victory. It just a victory, no bullshit quotes. They won, because they survived. That's a win against the Flood, because that's the end goal.

Two, we don't know enough about Ancient Humanity to say whether they are more or less advanced than the GE. All we know is that Flood defeat IS possible.

Hell the Didact was on the right path to beating the Flood. In Halo 4 it's mentioned that the Composer would have made them immune to the Flood. The Didact simply didn't have the numbers nor the time to halt the Flood's progression. The Forerunners "panicked" I suppose and hit the big red button (a.k.a. The Halo Array).

I put quotes there because the flood survived. They are like a parasitic giant flu.

[Galnius]

No b/c ancient humanity could have made SW look like kids on a playground. They could have also had sticks. Their "victory" is not relevant due to lack of info.

What makes you think Ancient Humanity could beat the Empire?

Notice the words COULD HAVE. I also.said they COULD HAVE had sticks.

[Wisconsin9]

First of all it's not a "victory. It just a victory, no bullshit quotes. They won, because they survived. That's a win against the Flood, because that's the end goal.

Two, we don't know enough about Ancient Humanity to say whether they are more or less advanced than the GE. All we know is that Flood defeat IS possible.

Hell the Didact was on the right path to beating the Flood. In Halo 4 it's mentioned that the Composer would have made them immune to the Flood. The Didact simply didn't have the numbers nor the time to halt the Flood's progression. The Forerunners "panicked" I suppose and hit the big red button (a.k.a. The Halo Array).

I put quotes there because the flood survived. They are like a parasitic giant flu.

Survival does not equal victory. Carthage survived the first two Punic Wars, and they lost both of them. Germany survived both World Wars, even though they lost. Victory and defeat is based on more than just survival.

[Galnius]

[quote="Wisconsin9";p="14651005"][quote="Galnius";p="14650939"][quote="The Legion of War";p="14650858"]
First of all it's not a "victory. It just a victory, no bullshit quotes. They won, because they survived.

A quote from one of yours/

[Wisconsin9]

First of all it's not a "victory. It just a victory, no bullshit quotes. They won, because they survived.

A quote from one of yours/

The strategic objective of a war with the Flood is survival. The strategic objective of the Flood was to reproduce and feed as much as possible. The humans accomplished their goal, the Flood did not. That's the difference between winning and losing a war.

[Galnius]

The strategic objective of a war with the Flood is survival. The strategic objective of the Flood was to reproduce and feed as much as possible. The humans accomplished their goal, the Flood did not. That's the difference between winning and losing a war.

Uhhh...what?

[The Orson Empire]

Legion of War: Yes most of those were directed toward your arguments, but the stealth nuke was directed at some other comment about how coruscant, a city made of kilometer skyscrapers, would have no defense against a simple nuclear weapon.

I do admit, it does take time to gather such data. Star Wars Expanded Universe is EXTREMELY variable in such things due to artistic liberty (sometimes that stormtrooper argument I made is portrayed well, sometimes the troopers are utterly, laughably, completely incompetent). A very good site that pulls its numbers straight from the movies (the most canon source of all, which is why I use them instead of books) is stardestroyer.net .

And you are right, as a whole the conjuring of illusions is not particularly common. However, if there is any truth to the EU, much of it is actually sith magic and can be accomplished by even relatively unexperienced force users. It evidently is just a forgotten technique, or perhaps the technology changed to the point that it could no longer be used. An ancient faction called the Krath used these illusions to great effect, and if we accept the post-return of the jedi books luke skywalker was able to temporarily render a ship "invisible". However, Luke is NOT a typical jedi, so he doesn't really count for this point. Speaking of cloaks, there are cloaked ships in Star Wars, such as Darth Mauls ship, and the emperors shuttle. Grand Admiral Thrawn even cloaked asteroids and but them around coruscant as a way to frighten the population and blockade it. UNSC and Covenant technology may have great trouble detecting this, though I suspect that the covenant could detect it as they have their own stealth tech.

For halo I do have a question. Are the Halo rings shielded? The pillar of autumn exploded with a thermonuclear reaction according to Cortana, a thing we are capable of today on earth, and it utterly destroyed the ring. From this is it fair to assume that Star Destroyers, which spit out megatons per shot (I have no idea where these "teraton" numbers come from) would be a competent match against halo rings after what we saw in Halo 1?

The part in bold is false. They spit out 200 GIGATONS per shot.

[Wisconsin9]

The strategic objective of a war with the Flood is survival. The strategic objective of the Flood was to reproduce and feed as much as possible. The humans accomplished their goal, the Flood did not. That's the difference between winning and losing a war.

Uhhh...what?

In war, each side has a goal they want to accomplish. Those goals are usually incompatible with each other. The side that accomplishes their goal is the side that won. For example, the Flood and everything else. The Flood want to reproduce. Everything else wants to survive. Since the Flood reproducing required everything else not surviving, war was the only possible outcome. In the end, everything else accomplished their goal and the Flood did not. Ergo, everything else won and the Flood lost.

That's a massive simplification, but I think it gets my point across.

[Galnius]

The strategic objective of a war with the Flood is survival. The strategic objective of the Flood was to reproduce and feed as much as possible.

That is my "what"

[Wisconsin9]

The strategic objective of a war with the Flood is survival. The strategic objective of the Flood was to reproduce and feed as much as possible.

That is my "what"

What exactly about that wasn't understood?

[Galnius]

The strategic objective of a war with the Flood is survival. The strategic objective of the Flood was to reproduce and feed as much as possible.

Read that over. According to THESE guidelines the flood never lost.

[Wisconsin9]

The strategic objective of a war with the Flood is survival. The strategic objective of the Flood was to reproduce and feed as much as possible.

Read that over. According to THESE guidelines the flood never lost.

[Galnius]

The strategic objective of a war with the Flood is survival. The strategic objective of the Flood was to reproduce and feed as much as possible.

Read that over. According to THESE guidelines the flood never lost.

Do you see the "what" part there

[The Legion of War]

Do you see the "what" part there

The Flood still lost because it didn't feed nor reproduce as much as possible. It can only achieve that state when the entire milky way is in its grasp.

[Galnius]

Do you see the "what" part there

The Flood still lost because it didn't feed nor reproduce as much as possible. It can only achieve that state when the entire milky way is in its grasp.

Read the first sentence....slowly

[Galnius]

[quote="Wisconsin9";p="14651136"][quote="Galnius";p="14651099"][quote="Wisconsin9";p="14651076"]
The strategic objective of a war with the Flood is survival.

[The Legion of War]

The Flood still lost because it didn't feed nor reproduce as much as possible. It can only achieve that state when the entire milky way is in its grasp.

Read the first sentence....slowly

"The strategic objective of a war with the Flood is survival"? That's correct because it IS. If it helps, replace "with" with "against". Same thing in this context, although "against" is more correct.

Ancient Humanity's goal was NOT to exterminate the Flood, it was surviving the onslaught. Which they DID. Therefore they won because they achieved their goal.

In the case of the Forerunners it was to ensure that sentient life in the galaxy survived. With the Halo array and the reseeding of various species, life survived. The Forerunners accomplished their goal, so therefore they won. A Pyrrhic victory for the Forerunners though.

The UNSC and Covenant both wanted to survive against the Flood, which they did. Therefore they won and the Flood lost. Hell man, Master Chief annihilated all the Flood at the Ark, which was pretty much everything the Gravemind had.

[The Four Corners Commonwealth]

First off the whole"a spore destroys a species" thing was just an elite talking out his ass. He has NO IDEA what the flood can do. None whatsoever. He has killed them sure, but he's not a scientist with a degree specializing in flood studies. Remember, his culture barely understands forerunner tech, let alone how they dealt with some parasite that they just discovered and accidentally released and assumed was some test of their religious conviction. All the covies do is hit ctrl+c, ctrl+v for everything forerunner, so a non-scientist trying to come up with an independent hypothesis might not be the best thing. Hell he probably got a kick out of glassing the homeworld of his 25 year enemy. Its like how people say anthrax could kill the country if spores leaked out and one person infected another and so on, except when it DID happen after 9/11, only 4 people died. The fact is that for all the spores that exist, they only became a problem when the covenant released the damn things, and when Penitent Tangent neglected his duties due to rampancy and the flood escaped.
And no, the floods goal isnt just to eat and reproduce. It is to assimilate ALL LIFE in the galaxy. Anything short of that is failure. If their goal is just to eat and reproduce, the gravemind could have gone to a random ass planet, sat down, and had their own world. But.... Thats not what he did. He went to earth and high charity and then to the ark to prevent their destruction as well as trying to assimilate as much as possible. and again, they lost. though for some reason the forerunners decided to make it so the flood could escape by keeping them in poorly kept quarantines. I'm sure there were better options than a locked door and a "caution: keep out" sign, which is basically EXACTLY what they had on the 343 guilty spark level. At this point this argument is getting to the point of the whole Borg thing, where everyone seems to think they are invincible too and unstoppable..

Also my dozens of megatons number wasn't wrong. I was talking about the light turbolasers, and that is the MINIMUM number observed through movies.

[Benomia]

What are we on now?

[Galnius]

Read the first sentence....slowly

"The strategic objective of a war with the Flood is survival"? That's correct because it IS. If it helps, replace "with" with "against". Same thing in this context, although "against" is more correct.

Ancient Humanity's goal was NOT to exterminate the Flood, it was surviving the onslaught. Which they DID. Therefore they won because they achieved their goal.

In the case of the Forerunners it was to ensure that sentient life in the galaxy survived. With the Halo array and the reseeding of various species, life survived. The Forerunners accomplished their goal, so therefore they won. A Pyrrhic victory for the Forerunners though.

The UNSC and Covenant both wanted to survive against the Flood, which they did. Therefore they won and the Flood lost. Hell man, Master Chief annihilated all the Flood at the Ark, which was pretty much everything the Gravemind had.

See the word against eliminates the "what".
The last sentence though has no backing. There is NO evidence that there was no flood elsewhere.

[Galnius]

The funniest thing about this argument is that it is pointless if the Lantern Corps from DC enter the eqaution.