Scifi TV Discussion Thread

[Ameriganastan]

I saw the trailer for that lower decks show. I think it looks alright honestly.

Bro, come on. You can't honestly think that looks like a good show.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I saw the trailer for that lower decks show. I think it looks alright honestly.

Bro, come on. You can't honestly think that looks like a good show.

Think it looks fine. Probably wont watch much of it, but it looks fine.

[New haven america]

I mean, I've SEEN threats to Roddenberry's vision with discovery and picard, but that trailer was the most viscerally dangerous piece of NuTrek media these guys have put out.

I'm not looking forward to Kurtzman's new "expanded universe".

So what makes DSC and PIC threats to Rod's vision, but the darker parts of DS9 weren't?

Well, I've been over this dozens of time now with you now but you conveniently ignore any explanation given, so we'll just make it as short as possible to save valuable time.

DS9: Thinky Thinky Hopeful Sci-Fi
STD and STP: Shooty Shooty Angery Grimdark "Sci-Fi"

[Ameriganastan]

Bro, come on. You can't honestly think that looks like a good show.

Think it looks fine. Probably wont watch much of it, but it looks fine.

In what conceivable way is this fine? They went all Rick And Morty on it.

[New haven america]

Think it looks fine. Probably wont watch much of it, but it looks fine.

In what conceivable way is this fine? They went all Rick And Morty on it.

Not just Rick and Morty, Rick and Morty's mostly well written.

It's like Final Space but with ST slapped on the cover.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Think it looks fine. Probably wont watch much of it, but it looks fine.

In what conceivable way is this fine? They went all Rick And Morty on it.

In the conceivable way that i dont really care.

It looks like a run of the mill light hearted sci fi cartoon, i.e fine. It is fine. Not the end of the world, if it does well it will continue, if not it will be dropped and the world shall move on.

[Ameriganastan]

In what conceivable way is this fine? They went all Rick And Morty on it.

In the conceivable way that i dont really care.

It looks like a run of the mill light hearted sci fi cartoon, i.e fine. It is fine. Not the end of the world, if it does well it will continue, if not it will be dropped and the world shall move on.

It would be fine if it wasn't STAR TREK.

[New haven america]

In what conceivable way is this fine? They went all Rick And Morty on it.

In the conceivable way that i dont really care.

It looks like a run of the mill light hearted sci fi cartoon, i.e fine. It is fine. Not the end of the world, if it does well it will continue, if not it will be dropped and the world shall move on.

And ST is as a franchise should be above that.

[The Huskar Social Union]

In the conceivable way that i dont really care.

It looks like a run of the mill light hearted sci fi cartoon, i.e fine. It is fine. Not the end of the world, if it does well it will continue, if not it will be dropped and the world shall move on.

It would be fine if it wasn't STAR TREK.

[The Huskar Social Union]

In the conceivable way that i dont really care.

It looks like a run of the mill light hearted sci fi cartoon, i.e fine. It is fine. Not the end of the world, if it does well it will continue, if not it will be dropped and the world shall move on.

And ST is as a franchise should be above that.

Yeah it should be.

But im not gona get upset over a run of the mill cartoon.

[Gig em Aggies]

are they making a sequel to the Kelvin timeline/Chris Pine Star Trek movies or are they kaput like Romulus after it's star exploded?

[Ameriganastan]

are they making a sequel to the Kelvin timeline/Chris Pine Star Trek movies or are they kaput like Romulus after it's star exploded?

It was cancelled for a bit, then they said it wasn't and now it's just uncertain. Quinto says he'd be up for it.

[New haven america]

And ST is as a franchise should be above that.

Yeah it should be.

But im not gona get upset over a run of the mill cartoon.

It's not just 1 run of the mill cartoon though, it's A. Wasted potential, and B. The 3rd bastardization the ST franchise in a row.

[New haven america]

are they making a sequel to the Kelvin timeline/Chris Pine Star Trek movies or are they kaput like Romulus after it's star exploded?

They were canceled because they weren't bringing in enough money and Chris Pine got angry that the rest of the crew would be taking a massive paycut to fund the return of Chris Hemsworth (Who's only been in the movies for a grand total of 3 minutes), but then a 4th movie got announced to be made by some guy named Noah Hawley.

[La Paz de Los Ricos]

I mean, I've SEEN threats to Roddenberry's vision with discovery and picard, but that trailer was the most viscerally dangerous piece of NuTrek media these guys have put out.

I'm not looking forward to Kurtzman's new "expanded universe".

So what makes DSC and PIC threats to Rod's vision, but the darker parts of DS9 weren't?

DS9 challenges Roddenberry's ideas, Kurtzman Trek just steamrolls right over them.

Despite DS9's darkest and most serious moments, there was still the idea that humanity could be greater than we are now. That we would evolve and move beyond the wants of today. Of course, some would slip through the cracks. There'd be many who wouldn't agree with the United Earth and the Federation, and what Humanity stood for. DS9 looked at Roddenberry's dream and tried to compare it with what it would look like as a reality. Maybe we won't get it all right. But we can try. Our efforts pay off, and even though we can't be perfect, and we'll still face danger and adversity, we just might make it.

DS9 continued the idea of using alien races as an allegory for the issues that plague us today. The Ferengi as the unchecked capitalists, the Cardassians as the power-hungry imperialists. Aspects of our past, and of our present. They looked at those ideas and challenged them.

Yes, DS9 did show us that there would be issues with Roddenberry's vision. The soldiers of AR-558, the Maquis, Section 31. All of those, challenges against Roddenberry's ideas of an evolved man that would be free of the problems of today.

There was discussion. Difficult discussions about what a practical Federation would be like. Discussions about facing alien threats, about the unity of humanity. We will never be perfect, but we can always strive to be. We can work to better ourselves, they said. We might never rid ourselves of our violent tendencies, our more primal drives. The men on AR-558 showed us that men will still hold those within themselves. O'Brien showed us that, too. We may not be entirely united as a race, even in that far future. The Maquis separatists showed us that maybe not everyone will want to be a part of this society. We may need men to work in the shadows, to secure the safety of the citizens of the Federation by committing acts that those citizens would find atrocious. Section 31 showed us that we'll still need those men in the future so we can allow families and children to sail in Starfleet's grand vessels.

And what do we get for our troubles? What grand payoff do we get for doing our hardest to build a Federation?

Slavery. Remember the days when one person could look at another, and with all the honesty in his heart, would truthfully say "I own you"? Now, in that bright future Roddenberry worked so hard to craft, we do that. We apparently force labor out of synthetic beings in the future. Picard fought against that very thing. "Are you prepared to condemn him, and all who come after him, to servitude and slavery?" he asks. Well, apparently we are. Never mind how Picard took great steps to prevent this very thing from happening in "Measure of a Man". Never mind how The Doctor fought for the right to be recognized as more than the sum of his subroutines in "Author, Author", not to mention in "Virtuoso" and countless other episodes, striving to be more than his programming dictated he should be. No. That doesn't matter.

Inequity. I don't mean disparity like between the Maquis, and groups who split off to support an idea. I mean, within the Federation. "Money doesn't exist in the twenty-fourth century," Picard states in First Contact, as factually sound as the floor he was standing on. Well, something must have went wrong there, because why else would Raffi imply that she could do nothing to improve her circumstances on Earth? That Picard was somehow richer than her, because he could afford "heirloom furniture" on that massive château of his? Apparently, we've gone back to wanting for material needs.

And not to mention anything of the demeanor of people in this future. It's all I can do to not be blindsided by a "shit" or a "fuck" every time I watch a clip of those shows. It's constant. "Colorful metaphors", Spock called them? Mostly an artifact of the past. If ever they've shown up, they're usually warranted by the severe extremity of the circumstances. They aren't constant. They're not constantly littered in everyday speech like plastic on a white beach. Not like in discovery and picard. "Nobody'll pay attention to you unless you swear every other word," Kirk retorts, as an offhand remark about the people of the twentieth century. The twentieth century. I once read something somewhere about the speech of those serving in WWI, I believe. It was mentioned that swearing was so common in everyday speech, that the absence of it implies grave or dire circumstances. I believe the example given was "'Get your fucking rifles,' was considered routine, whereas 'Get your rifles,' implied urgency and danger." How many times have you heard someone on DS9 utter an expletive like that? "Hell" and "damn" and "bloody" are really the most you'll ever hear.

We no longer need such crude language. Or maybe we do. Maybe it's just "sheer fucking hubris" I'm spouting here.

And at the end of the day, what does it even matter to build the Federation? It's no longer a symbol of cooperation, friendship, and mutual trust that echoes through the galaxy. No, no. Guess what it'll be in the future?

Dead. From what the Season 3 Discovery trailers suggest, the Federation is at least on life support by the thirty-second century. What was it, five or six stars on the Federation flag? Everyone else backed out. Those centuries of diplomacy, hard work, and building trust, gone, with the stroke of a pen. So no, Roddenberry's great Federation is doomed to failure. The message I see, is "why bother"? Why put in effort in a Federation that is ultimately going to fail? Why work to build mutual respect when that respect is subject to fail at any moment? Futility reigns supreme in Kurtzman Trek.

In the words of Control himself, "struggle is pointless".

I believe Kurtzman or one of his staff likened it to "the decline of the Roman Empire"? Somebody did. But they forget, the Federation was not meant to be the Roman Empire. The Romans were savage. Conquering, enslaving. By many standards, they were "great". But that greatness came through violence and warmongering. The Federation never warmongered. At least, not before discovery.

It's disheartening.

[La Paz de Los Ricos]

Think it looks fine. Probably wont watch much of it, but it looks fine.

In what conceivable way is this fine? They went all Rick And Morty on it.

Amen. People seem to think that this new cartoon will in any capacity be "a good thing" for us right now.

Making a mockery out of Star Trek seems to be the best Trek we're meant to be getting right now, at least according to its supporters.

[Twilight Imperium]

I'm not gonna quote La Paz de Los Ricos' entire post, but basically +1. It's like the plot lines in Picard were specifically set up to shit on every happy ending Star Trek previously set up.

Picard? Isolated and broken.
Data? Legacy tarnished, fellow AI were servants and then outlawed entirely.
Riker/Troi? Doing okay admittedly, but still lost their son to AI bullshit for no reason.
Seven regaining her humanity? Just oof.
The Federation? Reactionary doofuses. Doofi?
Romulus? The formerly xenophobic nation that's been warming up to the Federation since Enemy Mine? No peace in our time!

Who would have thought that the kid who ran off with the glowing space pedo was the one who got the least shafted?

[Tarsonis]

The Lower Decks looks funny I have to admit. While I get some of the Kurtzman hate, I don't understand the resistance to exploring the ST universe beyond the command deck of a star ship. There's an entire galaxy of stories to tell here.

As a veteran, I actually appreciate the Lower Decks set up here, because it isn't all elegant space exploration like it is up on the command deck. The enlisted crew routinely have hijinks and shenanigans throughout the day, some funny some not so much. I don't think they're doing anything wrong by shining a light on this element.

[Ameriganastan]

The Lower Decks looks funny I have to admit. While I get some of the Kurtzman hate, I don't understand the resistance to exploring the ST universe beyond the command deck of a star ship. There's an entire galaxy of stories to tell here.

You can explore beyond command without turning it into...that.

[Tarsonis]

The Lower Decks looks funny I have to admit. While I get some of the Kurtzman hate, I don't understand the resistance to exploring the ST universe beyond the command deck of a star ship. There's an entire galaxy of stories to tell here.

You can explore beyond command without turning it into...that.

I mean they did the lower decks episode with junior officers, but even they were the top rung, directly mentored by the senior staff. But, honestly this show looks a more accurate representation of ship life than the show ever did.

[Ameriganastan]

You can explore beyond command without turning it into...that.

I mean they did the lower decks episode with junior officers, but even they were the top rung, directly mentored by the senior staff. But, honestly this show looks a more accurate representation of ship life than the show ever did.

...Are you serious, bro? Did you even watch the trailer?

[Tarsonis]

I mean they did the lower decks episode with junior officers, but even they were the top rung, directly mentored by the senior staff. But, honestly this show looks a more accurate representation of ship life than the show ever did.

...Are you serious, bro? Did you even watch the trailer?

Yeah, and I spent four years in the Marines. The cartoon is a closer representation of what its like to live on ship, than TNG was.


That said, I don't think the criticism around it is unfair. A lot of elements of it mesh better with the Orville than Trek, but i still think it'll be a funny show. And of course, white men are idiots while POC women are mary sues, but ::shrug:: welcome to modern pop culture

[Ameriganastan]

Yeah, and I spent four years in the Marines. The cartoon is a closer representation of what its like to live on ship, than TNG was.


That said, I don't think the criticism around it is unfair. A lot of elements of it mesh better with the Orville than Trek, but i still think it'll be a funny show.

Go back and watch it again. This is not Trek. It's a goddamn parody sketch is what it is.

[The Alma Mater]

Yeah, and I spent four years in the Marines. The cartoon is a closer representation of what its like to live on ship, than TNG was.


That said, I don't think the criticism around it is unfair. A lot of elements of it mesh better with the Orville than Trek, but i still think it'll be a funny show.

Go back and watch it again. This is not Trek. It's a goddamn parody sketch is what it is.

Nah, that was the novel redshirts. Which also dealt with those non A-listed crewmembers.

[La Paz de Los Ricos]

You can explore beyond command without turning it into...that.

I mean they did the lower decks episode with junior officers, but even they were the top rung, directly mentored by the senior staff. But, honestly this show looks a more accurate representation of ship life than the show ever did.

Life on a 24th century ship shouldn't be the same as life on a modern ship. That'd be like if sailors from the 1700s thought that life on a modern ship would involve endless disease, literal starvation for months on end, and general crustiness, and the occasional "swashbuckle" or two.

I don't doubt your experiences, but no matter how accurate LD may reflect that experience, that's not the experience which has been established to occur on Starfleet vessels.