Scifi TV Discussion Thread

[Vassenor]

Also, for all this complaining about excessive violence... where were you when Nog had his leg blown off?

A. Here's the scene of Nog losing his leg
B. Here's the scene of Icheb getting his eye ripped out. Oh wait, it's not there because I'm not sure I'd be able to post that video without getting slapped by the mods for gore posting.

You know, the fact that I can't even post the latter video because of the risk of getting a warning should say enough about how ST's views of violence has changed under the management of Bad Robot and CBS.

And that shot of the torpedo crew being wiped out in TWOK presumably also doesn't count because it's injurious to your narrative.

[New haven america]

A. Here's the scene of Nog losing his leg
B. Here's the scene of Icheb getting his eye ripped out. Oh wait, it's not there because I'm not sure I'd be able to post that video without getting slapped by the mods for gore posting.

You know, the fact that I can't even post the latter video because of the risk of getting a warning should say enough about how ST's views of violence has changed under the management of Bad Robot and CBS.

And that shot of the torpedo crew being wiped out in TWOK presumably also doesn't count because it's injurious to your narrative.

If your talking about the end of the Enterprise vs. Reliant fight, with the scene of Khan being half burned, here it is.

Nah, that's pretty tame overall.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Fight men! Fight for our right to criticise!

[Jedi Council]

Kurtzman is involved, so people are already pissing their pants over it.


Don't even waste your time. You're up against an amount of borderline obsessive hate that you're literally better off talking to a brick wall.

It's funny how they say I'm incapable of providing constructive or valid criticism when I've honestly almost never been able to get people who claim to like the shows to explain what they actually like about the shows other than it has the ST name attached and having STD/STP is better than nothing. What do you like about the characters? Motives? Settings? Plot structure? Themes? Effects and sound? Etc...

I'm open to hearing about it. Seriously. It'd be nice to hear an actual explanation other than "It's ST so just shut up and like it!". I'll start, I liked Pike in STD s2 because he was a strong, capable, and humble leader who generally made the show much nicer all around whenever he was on screen with his pleasant yet simultaneously commanding demeanor.

I literally posted around three or four paragraph of why I like Discovery and Picard. You may disagree but that does not invalidate others opinions.

But as others have said, I have a distinct feeling that nothing will satisfy you except everyone agreeing with you so I will stop trying

[Morrdh]

In Picard I can understand the xenophobic state of the Federation.

Starfleet had been forced to adapt a militant mindset because of the Dominion War and senior officials had the view that another major conflict was a case of when, not if.

Then you basically had a 9/11 style event with Mars, not sure as heck is gonna make the Federation withdrawn especially if it's strongly suspected that a rival power may have been behind it.

And it appears that the Romulans had infiltrated Starfleet, so it may also be some of their influence at work.

[Jedi Council]

In Picard I can understand the xenophobic state of the Federation.

Starfleet had been forced to adapt a militant mindset because of the Dominion War and senior officials had the view that another major conflict was a case of when, not if.

Then you basically had a 9/11 style event with Mars, not sure as heck is gonna make the Federation withdrawn especially if it's strongly suspected that a rival power may have been behind it.

And it appears that the Romulans had infiltrated Starfleet, so it may also be some of their influence at work.

Picard>Discovery in my books

[The Cosmic Mainframe]

In Picard I can understand the xenophobic state of the Federation.

Starfleet had been forced to adapt a militant mindset because of the Dominion War and senior officials had the view that another major conflict was a case of when, not if.

Then you basically had a 9/11 style event with Mars, not sure as heck is gonna make the Federation withdrawn especially if it's strongly suspected that a rival power may have been behind it.

And it appears that the Romulans had infiltrated Starfleet, so it may also be some of their influence at work.

Picard>Discovery in my books

Picard is the best Star Trek since Voyager ended imo. Although both Picard and Discovery had flaws as well as strengths.

[Jedi Council]

Picard>Discovery in my books

Picard is the best Star Trek since Voyager ended imo. Although both Picard and Discovery had flaws as well as strengths.

The thing that was most appealing about Picard was that it worked with existing lore.

Discovery has its moments, but I still find the idea of a spore drive way too far out for my tastes. Voyager is my favourite series and the premise of a propulsion system that can move matter across a galaxy that quickly kind of undercuts the premise of that show. Hopefully they find a way to make it impossible to use post Discovery, such as the network being badly damaged by the repeated jumps or some other such problems.

[La Paz de Los Ricos]

Picard is the best Star Trek since Voyager ended imo. Although both Picard and Discovery had flaws as well as strengths.

The thing that was most appealing about Picard was that it worked with existing lore.

Discovery has its moments, but I still find the idea of a spore drive way too far out for my tastes. Voyager is my favourite series and the premise of a propulsion system that can move matter across a galaxy that quickly kind of undercuts the premise of that show. Hopefully they find a way to make it impossible to use post Discovery, such as the network being badly damaged by the repeated jumps or some other such problems.

It'd have to be either fiercely classified or removed from the timeline or something, else somebody in the series that follow would have mentioned the spore drive in some form. Like in Voyager, Captain Janeway would definitely have mentioned spore drive tech as a way to get home, if she had known about it.

If it isn't either of these things, then literally all forms of propulsion would be considered obsolete by every Starfleet officer ever.

"Transwarp, quantum slipstream? That's sooooooo 24th century. Where's that spore drive we were promised a hundred years ago?"

[Jedi Council]

The thing that was most appealing about Picard was that it worked with existing lore.

Discovery has its moments, but I still find the idea of a spore drive way too far out for my tastes. Voyager is my favourite series and the premise of a propulsion system that can move matter across a galaxy that quickly kind of undercuts the premise of that show. Hopefully they find a way to make it impossible to use post Discovery, such as the network being badly damaged by the repeated jumps or some other such problems.

It'd have to be either fiercely classified or removed from the timeline or something, else somebody in the series that follow would have mentioned the spore drive in some form. Like in Voyager, Captain Janeway would definitely have mentioned spore drive tech as a way to get home, if she had known about it.

If it isn't either of these things, then literally all forms of propulsion would be considered obsolete by every Starfleet officer ever.

"Transwarp, quantum slipstream? That's sooooooo 24th century. Where's that spore drive we were promised a hundred years ago?"

My theory is that by the end of the series, or at some point when they phase out Spore Drives as an option, they will discover that the Drive had been killing creatures and whatever else lives in the Mycelial network, and has a negative effect on humans as well. After such a realization, it could very well be treated like the Omega Molecule.

[The Cosmic Mainframe]

The thing that was most appealing about Picard was that it worked with existing lore.

Discovery has its moments, but I still find the idea of a spore drive way too far out for my tastes. Voyager is my favourite series and the premise of a propulsion system that can move matter across a galaxy that quickly kind of undercuts the premise of that show. Hopefully they find a way to make it impossible to use post Discovery, such as the network being badly damaged by the repeated jumps or some other such problems.

It'd have to be either fiercely classified or removed from the timeline or something, else somebody in the series that follow would have mentioned the spore drive in some form. Like in Voyager, Captain Janeway would definitely have mentioned spore drive tech as a way to get home, if she had known about it.

If it isn't either of these things, then literally all forms of propulsion would be considered obsolete by every Starfleet officer ever.

"Transwarp, quantum slipstream? That's sooooooo 24th century. Where's that spore drive we were promised a hundred years ago?"

Discovery's writers tried at least to make it make sense in universe. Spore drive is inherently dangerous and in many ways even unethical to operate. The Federation probably just moved on in favor of more sustainable and ethical methods. It is also implied that the spore drive is classified at the end of S2. Not a perfect explanation but you can't say the writers didn't consider that.

[La Paz de Los Ricos]

It'd have to be either fiercely classified or removed from the timeline or something, else somebody in the series that follow would have mentioned the spore drive in some form. Like in Voyager, Captain Janeway would definitely have mentioned spore drive tech as a way to get home, if she had known about it.

If it isn't either of these things, then literally all forms of propulsion would be considered obsolete by every Starfleet officer ever.

"Transwarp, quantum slipstream? That's sooooooo 24th century. Where's that spore drive we were promised a hundred years ago?"

My theory is that by the end of the series, or at some point when they phase out Spore Drives as an option, they will discover that the Drive had been killing creatures and whatever else lives in the Mycelial network, and has a negative effect on humans as well. After such a realization, it could very well be treated like the Omega Molecule.

Well, Omega is still known to Starfleet captains. I assume the whatever they classify the Spore Drive as, its knowledge is limited to the Federation President and close associates. If it weren't, then we'd have gotten some weird dialogue during the introduction of the Excelsior.

"My friends, the Great Experiment. Well, 'great' is subjective, but still"

[La Paz de Los Ricos]

It'd have to be either fiercely classified or removed from the timeline or something, else somebody in the series that follow would have mentioned the spore drive in some form. Like in Voyager, Captain Janeway would definitely have mentioned spore drive tech as a way to get home, if she had known about it.

If it isn't either of these things, then literally all forms of propulsion would be considered obsolete by every Starfleet officer ever.

"Transwarp, quantum slipstream? That's sooooooo 24th century. Where's that spore drive we were promised a hundred years ago?"

Discovery's writers tried at least to make it make sense in universe. Spore drive is inherently dangerous and in many ways even unethical to operate. The Federation probably just moved on in favor of more sustainable and ethical methods. It is also implied that the spore drive is classified at the end of S2. Not a perfect explanation but you can't say the writers didn't consider that.

Yeah, but that's what I call the Section 31 Question. How could you classify something that was such common knowledge among Starfleet that by the next century, nobody at all knows what it is?

I'd compare it to trying to re-classify the nuke. It wouldn't work, because everyone knows about nuclear weapons now.

[Jedi Council]

My theory is that by the end of the series, or at some point when they phase out Spore Drives as an option, they will discover that the Drive had been killing creatures and whatever else lives in the Mycelial network, and has a negative effect on humans as well. After such a realization, it could very well be treated like the Omega Molecule.

Well, Omega is still known to Starfleet captains. I assume the whatever they classify the Spore Drive as, its knowledge is limited to the Federation President and close associates. If it weren't, then we'd have gotten some weird dialogue during the introduction of the Excelsior.

"My friends, the Great Experiment. Well, 'great' is subjective, but still"

It's entirely possible that something happens later that makes Spore Drive not only unethical or classified but also entirely inoperable. After all, we are only heading into Discoveries third season, meaning we still have four to go if it follows the patterns of other Treks

[Jedi Council]

Discovery's writers tried at least to make it make sense in universe. Spore drive is inherently dangerous and in many ways even unethical to operate. The Federation probably just moved on in favor of more sustainable and ethical methods. It is also implied that the spore drive is classified at the end of S2. Not a perfect explanation but you can't say the writers didn't consider that.

Yeah, but that's what I call the Section 31 Question. How could you classify something that was such common knowledge among Starfleet that by the next century, nobody at all knows what it is?

I'd compare it to trying to re-classify the nuke. It wouldn't work, because everyone knows about nuclear weapons now.

Bad analogy there on the Spore Drive. It is evidently not common knowledge that Discovery has one, Captain Pike did not know about it until he came on board. It would not be hard to classify that piece of tech specifically.

On the question of Section 31, I would argue that rather than thinking it never existed, future officers would think it was either a myth or was dismantled after the problems with Control. Thus, the existence of Section 31 in the 2370s is a surprise.

[Mirjt]

I haven't seen much of Picard or Discovery, only bits and pieces. I think I would prefer to just rewatch the Next Generation.

[La Paz de Los Ricos]

Yeah, but that's what I call the Section 31 Question. How could you classify something that was such common knowledge among Starfleet that by the next century, nobody at all knows what it is?

I'd compare it to trying to re-classify the nuke. It wouldn't work, because everyone knows about nuclear weapons now.

Bad analogy there on the Spore Drive. It is evidently not common knowledge that Discovery has one, Captain Pike did not know about it until he came on board. It would not be hard to classify that piece of tech specifically.

On the question of Section 31, I would argue that rather than thinking it never existed, future officers would think it was either a myth or was dismantled after the problems with Control. Thus, the existence of Section 31 in the 2370s is a surprise.

Yeah, you're right with the spore drive. Still, considering it was posted on at least two ships that I remember, Glenn and Discovery, I'd assume its existence is at least common knowledge in Starfleet Command.

And I guess Star Trek Online did semi-confirm what you're saying. There was that line somewhere saying something like, "Section 31? You don't actually believe that mythical organization is real, do you?" I guess, but even so, the way Odo and Sisko speak about 31 makes it seem like they knew nothing about it at all. They were shocked at the clandestine way it operated.

[Jedi Council]

Apparently Kate Mulgrew, and LeVar Burton are in talks for cameos in the next Season of Picard.

It would be interesting to see where they ended up, and how Janeway feels about Sevens progression.

I want to see Michael Dorn back as Worf. In the book prequel to the series it was revealed that he became Picards XO and then became Captain of the Enterprise E after Picards promotion to Admiral.

[Vassenor]

Apparently Kate Mulgrew, and LeVar Burton are in talks for cameos in the next Season of Picard.

It would be interesting to see where they ended up, and how Janeway feels about Sevens progression.

I want to see Michael Dorn back as Worf. In the book prequel to the series it was revealed that he became Picards XO and then became Captain of the Enterprise E after Picards promotion to Admiral.

Didn't the comics establish Geordi as being at UP when shit went sideways though?

[Jedi Council]

Apparently Kate Mulgrew, and LeVar Burton are in talks for cameos in the next Season of Picard.

It would be interesting to see where they ended up, and how Janeway feels about Sevens progression.

I want to see Michael Dorn back as Worf. In the book prequel to the series it was revealed that he became Picards XO and then became Captain of the Enterprise E after Picards promotion to Admiral.

Didn't the comics establish Geordi as being at UP when shit went sideways though?

The comics show Geordi in 2385 as a full Commander and being a supervisor at UP, but Picard mentions his name in "Maps and Legends," which I guess means he was either not there during the attack or survived it somehow.

[Tarsonis]

Didn't the comics establish Geordi as being at UP when shit went sideways though?

The comics show Geordi in 2385 as a full Commander and being a supervisor at UP, but Picard mentions his name in "Maps and Legends," which I guess means he was either not there during the attack or survived it somehow.

Far as I know the comics aren't canon. Neither is STO. Just the shows and the movies, with the Kelvin universe being a subset of Canon.

[Jedi Council]

The comics show Geordi in 2385 as a full Commander and being a supervisor at UP, but Picard mentions his name in "Maps and Legends," which I guess means he was either not there during the attack or survived it somehow.

Far as I know the comics aren't canon. Neither is STO. Just the shows and the movies, with the Kelvin universe being a subset of Canon.

They are not officially, but I would assume since they were developed alongside the show itself as a form of background they will at least have inspiration drawn from them if the characters were to appear.

[La Paz de Los Ricos]

The comics show Geordi in 2385 as a full Commander and being a supervisor at UP, but Picard mentions his name in "Maps and Legends," which I guess means he was either not there during the attack or survived it somehow.

Far as I know the comics aren't canon. Neither is STO. Just the shows and the movies, with the Kelvin universe being a subset of Canon.

The Odyssey-Class Enterprise-F is 100% canon, change my mind.

[Morrdh]

TBH I think Discovering should've been set after DS9/Voyager/Nemesis (technically it looks to be with Season 3).

The Spore Drive would've made more sense as a new experiment to find ways of being able to bypass Dominion to open up exploration of the Gamma Quadrant and the Delta Quadrant.

Wouldn't been any need to try and shoehorn stuff in.

[Jedi Council]

TBH I think Discovering should've been set after DS9/Voyager/Nemesis (technically it looks to be with Season 3).

The Spore Drive would've made more sense as a new experiment to find ways of being able to bypass Dominion to open up exploration of the Gamma Quadrant and the Delta Quadrant.

Wouldn't been any need to try and shoehorn stuff in.

100% agree.
Setting it before TOS was done because they wanted to get the nostalgia going with Captain Pike, Spock, and to explore the Klingon War. That's all well and good, but the tech and style of the ship (Hologram communications and controls? Since when?) make it hard to reconcile its place in the canon.

If it was set in say, 2415 or something, that would make much more sense.