Deep Space 9
SEN SOR READINGS
Advertisement
by The Huskar Social Union » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:12 am
by New haven america » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:31 am
by The Alma Mater » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:23 am
by Bralia » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:21 am
by Grenartia » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:28 am
by Tarsonis » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:31 am
by The Huskar Social Union » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:32 am
by Bralia » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:46 am
by Grenartia » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:56 am
Bralia wrote:
I actually was kinda lying back then. >.>. I really didn't want to get involved in a huge argument over my grievances with the series. My mind was a mess at the time and I couldn't collect all of my thoughts together and explain them well enough. I could probably do much better now.
The line I said afterwards remains true though, it was worth the watch. I don't regret having the experience.
by The Technocrates » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:04 am
by The Orion Islands » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:06 am
by Bralia » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:31 am
by Ameriganastan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:38 am
by Tarsonis » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:55 am
Bralia wrote:I think I'll break down everything into bullet points, my mind will work better that way:
- Kira Nerys is probably my most disliked character in the history of my television watching. She wasn't a bad character nor was she poorly written, I just hated the ever living shit out of her.
- The Ferengi sucked and they were only ever on the screen so we could laugh at them (I made this opinion clear enough already, I don't think I need to go into this any further).
- Garak was a disappointment, too. He was one of the series' best written characters and yet, in the end, I felt like it didn't amount to anything. I feel like out of what little role he did play in the war, he didn't get anything out of it. I feel like he deserved a more satisfying end, be it positive or negative. I think they may have gone a little overboard with his grey character at the end, it just felt like he was even more out of place than ever before.
- I was also upset over the lack of the exploration in the series, but I think this part is mostly down to my own expectations and also not actually a flaw with the series. Just a difference of opinion on what I want out of Star Trek. Like . . . there was a whole Gamma Quadrant and the writers basically wrote it out really quickly. No room for new and fun stuff, really. But then if it were different and more in line with what I wanted, it really wouldn't be the DS9 that I know a ton of people love for what it actually is.
- I don't think Odo got enough love. He was the new, cool alien on the regular cast and I felt like they didn't do enough with him. He should have been more involved in the politics of the show, imo. I felt like he was too much of just a cop most of the time.
. Yeah that was kind of a meme, but i thought it worked with Quarks character- Speaking of Odo, the specific Odo-Quark relationship was horrible. "I'm watching you Quark!" "You'll never catch me, hehehe!". This sort of bheaviour happened throughout the show. Never amounted to a damn thing. NOT EVEN ONCE. Except for that one time Quark got locked up for a week. One. Fucking. Week.
- Don't even get me started on the whole religion in general being in Star Trek. Literally do not get me started. Because I can't form a coherent thought here. My brain cannot handle any more Bajoran bullshit. I've had my share.
Now here's the opinion that's surely the most offensive and I didn't want to get into back in the day:
- Gul Dukat was all talk and I never once felt the threat from him beyond his late seasons lunacy. He was a ruler during a period of occupation. But never once did I feel that the character lived up to his accused mass murdering ways. And yes . . . I actually say accused. Yeah, the Bajorans were conquered in a war of Cardassian imperialism. Yeah, the Bajorans were pissed. They committed "acts of terror/freedom fight" in retaliation. And the Cardassians counter-reacted to THAT. That's how occupations HAPPEN. At this point there are bad people on both sides . . . *cough* . . . and it's entirely based on perspective on who's actually the most bad when viewed from a third party's lens. And I do NOT trust the Bajorans. I have no reason to trust them more than the Cardassians and Dukat. Maybe the writers did a little too well in "humanizing" Dukat during that one period of the show because I just don't get the whole "as bad as a Nazi vibe" from him.
by The Huskar Social Union » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:08 am
by Tarsonis » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:09 am
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Calling Dukat bad? Oh boy ill be in the bunker till the war ends then ill sweep away the ashes.
by Ism » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:15 am
Bralia wrote:I think I'll break down everything into bullet points, my mind will work better that way:
- Kira Nerys is probably my most disliked character in the history of my television watching. She wasn't a bad character nor was she poorly written, I just hated the ever living shit out of her.
- The Ferengi sucked and they were only ever on the screen so we could laugh at them (I made this opinion clear enough already, I don't think I need to go into this any further).
- Garak was a disappointment, too. He was one of the series' best written characters and yet, in the end, I felt like it didn't amount to anything. I feel like out of what little role he did play in the war, he didn't get anything out of it. I feel like he deserved a more satisfying end, be it positive or negative. I think they may have gone a little overboard with his grey character at the end, it just felt like he was even more out of place than ever before.
- I was also upset over the lack of the exploration in the series, but I think this part is mostly down to my own expectations and also not actually a flaw with the series. Just a difference of opinion on what I want out of Star Trek. Like . . . there was a whole Gamma Quadrant and the writers basically wrote it out really quickly. No room for new and fun stuff, really. But then if it were different and more in line with what I wanted, it really wouldn't be the DS9 that I know a ton of people love for what it actually is.
- I don't think Odo got enough love. He was the new, cool alien on the regular cast and I felt like they didn't do enough with him. He should have been more involved in the politics of the show, imo. I felt like he was too much of just a cop most of the time.
- Speaking of Odo, the specific Odo-Quark relationship was horrible. "I'm watching you Quark!" "You'll never catch me, hehehe!". This sort of bheaviour happened throughout the show. Never amounted to a damn thing. NOT EVEN ONCE. Except for that one time Quark got locked up for a week. One. Fucking. Week.
- Don't even get me started on the whole religion in general being in Star Trek. Literally do not get me started. Because I can't form a coherent thought here. My brain cannot handle any more Bajoran bullshit. I've had my share.
Now here's the opinion that's surely the most offensive and I didn't want to get into back in the day:
- Gul Dukat was all talk and I never once felt the threat from him beyond his late seasons lunacy. He was a ruler during a period of occupation. But never once did I feel that the character lived up to his accused mass murdering ways. And yes . . . I actually say accused. Yeah, the Bajorans were conquered in a war of Cardassian imperialism. Yeah, the Bajorans were pissed. They committed "acts of terror/freedom fight" in retaliation. And the Cardassians counter-reacted to THAT. That's how occupations HAPPEN. At this point there are bad people on both sides . . . *cough* . . . and it's entirely based on perspective on who's actually the most bad when viewed from a third party's lens. And I do NOT trust the Bajorans. I have no reason to trust them more than the Cardassians and Dukat. Maybe the writers did a little too well in "humanizing" Dukat during that one period of the show because I just don't get the whole "as bad as a Nazi vibe" from him.
by Impaled Nazarene » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:16 am
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."
by Grenartia » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:22 am
Ism wrote:Bralia wrote:I think I'll break down everything into bullet points, my mind will work better that way:
- Kira Nerys is probably my most disliked character in the history of my television watching. She wasn't a bad character nor was she poorly written, I just hated the ever living shit out of her.
- The Ferengi sucked and they were only ever on the screen so we could laugh at them (I made this opinion clear enough already, I don't think I need to go into this any further).
- Garak was a disappointment, too. He was one of the series' best written characters and yet, in the end, I felt like it didn't amount to anything. I feel like out of what little role he did play in the war, he didn't get anything out of it. I feel like he deserved a more satisfying end, be it positive or negative. I think they may have gone a little overboard with his grey character at the end, it just felt like he was even more out of place than ever before.
- I was also upset over the lack of the exploration in the series, but I think this part is mostly down to my own expectations and also not actually a flaw with the series. Just a difference of opinion on what I want out of Star Trek. Like . . . there was a whole Gamma Quadrant and the writers basically wrote it out really quickly. No room for new and fun stuff, really. But then if it were different and more in line with what I wanted, it really wouldn't be the DS9 that I know a ton of people love for what it actually is.
- I don't think Odo got enough love. He was the new, cool alien on the regular cast and I felt like they didn't do enough with him. He should have been more involved in the politics of the show, imo. I felt like he was too much of just a cop most of the time.
- Speaking of Odo, the specific Odo-Quark relationship was horrible. "I'm watching you Quark!" "You'll never catch me, hehehe!". This sort of bheaviour happened throughout the show. Never amounted to a damn thing. NOT EVEN ONCE. Except for that one time Quark got locked up for a week. One. Fucking. Week.
- Don't even get me started on the whole religion in general being in Star Trek. Literally do not get me started. Because I can't form a coherent thought here. My brain cannot handle any more Bajoran bullshit. I've had my share.
Now here's the opinion that's surely the most offensive and I didn't want to get into back in the day:
- Gul Dukat was all talk and I never once felt the threat from him beyond his late seasons lunacy. He was a ruler during a period of occupation. But never once did I feel that the character lived up to his accused mass murdering ways. And yes . . . I actually say accused. Yeah, the Bajorans were conquered in a war of Cardassian imperialism. Yeah, the Bajorans were pissed. They committed "acts of terror/freedom fight" in retaliation. And the Cardassians counter-reacted to THAT. That's how occupations HAPPEN. At this point there are bad people on both sides . . . *cough* . . . and it's entirely based on perspective on who's actually the most bad when viewed from a third party's lens. And I do NOT trust the Bajorans. I have no reason to trust them more than the Cardassians and Dukat. Maybe the writers did a little too well in "humanizing" Dukat during that one period of the show because I just don't get the whole "as bad as a Nazi vibe" from him.
I mean, I get most of this, but that bit at the end is nuts. It’s certainly not an objective lens you’re looking through to see the Cardassian-Bajoran conflict as a conflict between shades of gray. It’s not black and white, not at the end at least, but the Cardassians are not gray. They, out of a belief in racial supremacism and imperial ambition, invaded Bajor, subjugated the Bajorans, forced them into concentration camps, and engaged in genocide. Those aren’t lies made up by the Bajorans, those things actually happened, as confirmed by Cardassian records. How you can look upon the group that committed atrocities all for the sake of ego and profit and the group that engaged in numerous acts that, at best, were morally dubious, to free themselves from the oppression of the aforementioned group, as being equally immoral, is beyond me.
As for Dukat, that’s the point. Bad people are still people, and just because Dukat is personable does not mean he isn’t evil. He’s the sort of guy who would slaughter a room full of innocents if it advanced his goals, but lament that it’s such a shame he has to do this. Not because he empathizes with them, but because he has to lower himself to something so beneath someone as great as himself. He’s a complex character, but that doesn’t detract from his villainy, that only makes it more insidious.
by Tarsonis » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:26 am
Grenartia wrote:Ism wrote:
I mean, I get most of this, but that bit at the end is nuts. It’s certainly not an objective lens you’re looking through to see the Cardassian-Bajoran conflict as a conflict between shades of gray. It’s not black and white, not at the end at least, but the Cardassians are not gray. They, out of a belief in racial supremacism and imperial ambition, invaded Bajor, subjugated the Bajorans, forced them into concentration camps, and engaged in genocide. Those aren’t lies made up by the Bajorans, those things actually happened, as confirmed by Cardassian records. How you can look upon the group that committed atrocities all for the sake of ego and profit and the group that engaged in numerous acts that, at best, were morally dubious, to free themselves from the oppression of the aforementioned group, as being equally immoral, is beyond me.
As for Dukat, that’s the point. Bad people are still people, and just because Dukat is personable does not mean he isn’t evil. He’s the sort of guy who would slaughter a room full of innocents if it advanced his goals, but lament that it’s such a shame he has to do this. Not because he empathizes with them, but because he has to lower himself to something so beneath someone as great as himself. He’s a complex character, but that doesn’t detract from his villainy, that only makes it more insidious.
Exactly fucking this.
Like, there's no possible way to "both sides" the Bajoran Occupation.
by Bralia » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:51 am
Tarsonis wrote:- Garak was a disappointment, too. He was one of the series' best written characters and yet, in the end, I felt like it didn't amount to anything. I feel like out of what little role he did play in the war, he didn't get anything out of it. I feel like he deserved a more satisfying end, be it positive or negative. I think they may have gone a little overboard with his grey character at the end, it just felt like he was even more out of place than ever before.
That’s kind how life is though. We don’t always get satisfying conclusions to our story archs. Sometimes it’s iust meh.
Ism wrote:I mean, I get most of this, but that bit at the end is nuts. It’s certainly not an objective lens you’re looking through to see the Cardassian-Bajoran conflict as a conflict between shades of gray. It’s not black and white, not at the end at least, but the Cardassians are not gray. They, out of a belief in racial supremacism and imperial ambition, invaded Bajor, subjugated the Bajorans, forced them into concentration camps, and engaged in genocide. Those aren’t lies made up by the Bajorans, those things actually happened, as confirmed by Cardassian records. How you can look upon the group that committed atrocities all for the sake of ego and profit and the group that engaged in numerous acts that, at best, were morally dubious, to free themselves from the oppression of the aforementioned group, as being equally immoral, is beyond me.
As for Dukat, that’s the point. Bad people are still people, and just because Dukat is personable does not mean he isn’t evil. He’s the sort of guy who would slaughter a room full of innocents if it advanced his goals, but lament that it’s such a shame he has to do this. Not because he empathizes with them, but because he has to lower himself to something so beneath someone as great as himself. He’s a complex character, but that doesn’t detract from his villainy, that only makes it more insidious.
by Ameriganastan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:53 am
Bralia wrote: Hell, Sisko came closer to doing something like that when he "nuked" that one Maquis world, for god's sake.
by Tarsonis » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:07 am
Bralia wrote:Tarsonis wrote:That’s kind how life is though. We don’t always get satisfying conclusions to our story archs. Sometimes it’s iust meh.
Yeaaah, I get that. I do.Ism wrote:I mean, I get most of this, but that bit at the end is nuts. It’s certainly not an objective lens you’re looking through to see the Cardassian-Bajoran conflict as a conflict between shades of gray. It’s not black and white, not at the end at least, but the Cardassians are not gray. They, out of a belief in racial supremacism and imperial ambition, invaded Bajor, subjugated the Bajorans, forced them into concentration camps, and engaged in genocide. Those aren’t lies made up by the Bajorans, those things actually happened, as confirmed by Cardassian records. How you can look upon the group that committed atrocities all for the sake of ego and profit and the group that engaged in numerous acts that, at best, were morally dubious, to free themselves from the oppression of the aforementioned group, as being equally immoral, is beyond me.
As for Dukat, that’s the point. Bad people are still people, and just because Dukat is personable does not mean he isn’t evil. He’s the sort of guy who would slaughter a room full of innocents if it advanced his goals, but lament that it’s such a shame he has to do this. Not because he empathizes with them, but because he has to lower himself to something so beneath someone as great as himself. He’s a complex character, but that doesn’t detract from his villainy, that only makes it more insidious.
See, Cardassian records being shown to admit such things are exactly the kind of thing I knew I must have forgotten somewhere along the line that led to my insane and mostly likely wrong opinion. I will say that I never doubted the bit I underlined above. Cardassians acting like hegemonic imperialists is something I'll never contest. But somewhere along the line I clearly fucked up regarding who I thought who committed the first war crime when the official occupation began.
It didn't help that Gul Dukat talked a fucking lot and did very little on screen. That's a point I got side-tracked off of earlier and forgot to include, for somebody who's supposed the big bad of the show I wanted to actually see him commit an atrocity, but he never really did until he finally tried in the finale. Shut up and do something actually horrible so I can ACTUALLY hate you already, you're confusing the shit out of me, Dukat. You said that he's the kind of guy who would gun down a room full of innocents, I wish I could have seen him do that. Hell, Sisko came closer to doing something like that when he "nuked" that one Maquis world, for god's sake.
by Juristonia » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:15 pm
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
