Scifi TV Discussion Thread

[Collatis]

Speaking of favorite characters, my favorite characters from each series that I've watched:

TNG: Wesley Picard and Data
DS9: Sisko (definitely the hardest to choose, since DS9 really didn't have any weak links)
VOY: The Doctor

What about TOS?

I haven't seen TOS

It's next on my list once I finish DS9.

[Ameriganastan]

10 years to perfect a bio-weapon.
Bashir cures it in a week.

I sometimes wonder how early they planned on him being an Augment...

[Rostavykhan]

No one's got any love for Enterprise I see

I like Enterprise, though I haven't seen much. I need to get onto it after DS9.

I really like the aesthetic and design of Enterprise. Used it for a bootleg Federation FT nation I'm working on right now.

[The Alexanderians]

No one's got any love for Enterprise I see

I like Enterprise, though I haven't seen much. I need to get onto it after DS9.

I really like the aesthetic and design of Enterprise. Used it for a bootleg Federation FT nation I'm working on right now.

Its visuals and style are one of the reasons I like it. Makes you feel like its actually a ship.

[Tarsonis]

10 years to perfect a bio-weapon.
Bashir cures it in a week.

I sometimes wonder how early they planned on him being an Augment...

Is that the Phage?

[Ameriganastan]

10 years to perfect a bio-weapon.
Bashir cures it in a week.

I sometimes wonder how early they planned on him being an Augment...

Is that the Phage?

No, that one episode deal from "Armageddon Game". Granted it took over 350 tests, but still.

[Grenartia]

Personally, I like Enterprise. Are there bad episodes? Yes, especially in the first two seasons. But from season 3 on, it was an amazing series (with the exception of the finale). Also, even out of the first 2 seasons, there's gems. Shuttlepod One and Dear Doctor, for instance.

Dear Doctor? The episode where Enterprise creates a cure for a people dying of plague, throws it away, tells them they’ll “probably” find a cure on their own, and then smugly pat themselves on the back for being so moral?

Its not good for the resolution, its good for the way they presented the dilemma.

[Ism]

Dear Doctor? The episode where Enterprise creates a cure for a people dying of plague, throws it away, tells them they’ll “probably” find a cure on their own, and then smugly pat themselves on the back for being so moral?

Its not good for the resolution, its good for the way they presented the dilemma.

The dilemma was not an actual dilemma, so no, it wasn’t handled well. A species was suffering from a genetic disease, which Phlox decided meant that nature intended for them to die out, and thus it would be wrong to cure they’re disease. That’s not a defensible position, for a number of reasons but mostly because nature doesn’t intend anything, and Archer was clearly in the right.

[Collatis]

Is that the Phage?

The Phage was cool.

[Ameriganastan]

Is that the Phage?

The Phage was cool.

The Vidians were a cool villain. Anyone who makes their intro by harming Neelix is okay in my book.

[Collatis]

The Phage was cool.

The Vidians were a cool villain. Anyone who makes their intro by harming Neelix is okay in my book.

Agreed. The Vidiians deserved more screen time, and the Kazon deserved way less.

[Ameriganastan]

The Vidians were a cool villain. Anyone who makes their intro by harming Neelix is okay in my book.

Agreed. The Vidiians deserved more screen time, and the Kazon deserved way less.

Even the Borg knew those guys were lame.

[The Alexanderians]

The Vidians were a cool villain. Anyone who makes their intro by harming Neelix is okay in my book.

Agreed. The Vidiians deserved more screen time, and the Kazon deserved way less.

The kazon were discount Klingons anyway.

[Grenartia]

Its not good for the resolution, its good for the way they presented the dilemma.

The dilemma was not an actual dilemma, so no, it wasn’t handled well. A species was suffering from a genetic disease, which Phlox decided meant that nature intended for them to die out, and thus it would be wrong to cure they’re disease. That’s not a defensible position, for a number of reasons but mostly because nature doesn’t intend anything, and Archer was clearly in the right.

The true dilemma (as in, the one the audience should be concerned with) is whether it was right to negatively impact the future of the Menk (who were, for all intents and purposes, the Valakians' pets, despite arguably being sentient). To that end, I remind you of the good doctor's argument about neanderthals vs homo sapiens.

[Ism]

The dilemma was not an actual dilemma, so no, it wasn’t handled well. A species was suffering from a genetic disease, which Phlox decided meant that nature intended for them to die out, and thus it would be wrong to cure they’re disease. That’s not a defensible position, for a number of reasons but mostly because nature doesn’t intend anything, and Archer was clearly in the right.

The true dilemma (as in, the one the audience should be concerned with) is whether it was right to negatively impact the future of the Menk (who were, for all intents and purposes, the Valakians' pets, despite arguably being sentient). To that end, I remind you of the good doctor's argument about neanderthals vs homo sapiens.

Who is negatively impacting the future of the Menk here? And how?

[The Alexanderians]

The true dilemma (as in, the one the audience should be concerned with) is whether it was right to negatively impact the future of the Menk (who were, for all intents and purposes, the Valakians' pets, despite arguably being sentient). To that end, I remind you of the good doctor's argument about neanderthals vs homo sapiens.

Who is negatively impacting the future of the Menk here? And how?

By letting the other species live and maybe extend their lives another generation or so they continue to subjugate the Menk for a meaningless effort.

[Ism]

Who is negatively impacting the future of the Menk here? And how?

By letting the other species live and maybe extend their lives another generation or so they continue to subjugate the Menk for a meaningless effort.

So, letting one species die out so that another one, which remember is dependent on the first for it's current lifestyle, and lacks the knowledge and capability to sustain itself, be free, is moral? Seems like it will be centuries at least before the Menk actually recover from the impending disaster as their society collapses and they struggle to survive on their own. Of course, as the story makes clear the Menk still need to evolve the same mental capacity of the Valakians, which is not guaranteed to ever happen, and if it does will likely take thousands of years. So, one species dies out so that another might one day be able to build it's own civilization(s) is the end result. The Valakians, they're people and culture(s) all vanish, the Menk wither in their absence as they must learn to survive on their own for the first time in centuries, perhaps millennia, and they might never reclaim the standard of living they have presently.

[The Alexanderians]

By letting the other species live and maybe extend their lives another generation or so they continue to subjugate the Menk for a meaningless effort.

So, letting one species die out so that another one, which remember is dependent on the first for it's current lifestyle, and lacks the knowledge and capability to sustain itself, be free, is moral? Seems like it will be centuries at least before the Menk actually recover from the impending disaster as their society collapses and they struggle to survive on their own. Of course, as the story makes clear the Menk still need to evolve the same mental capacity of the Valakians, which is not guaranteed to ever happen, and if it does will likely take thousands of years. So, one species dies out so that another might one day be able to build it's own civilization(s) is the end result. The Valakians, they're people and culture(s) all vanish, the Menk wither in their absence as they must learn to survive on their own for the first time in centuries, perhaps millennia, and they might never reclaim the standard of living they have presently.

Its more like a planet of the apes situation with less racial commentary.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Agreed. The Vidiians deserved more screen time, and the Kazon deserved way less.

The kazon were discount Klingons anyway.

That is so true. When I first started watching Star Trek, I thought they were the same species.

[Ism]

So, letting one species die out so that another one, which remember is dependent on the first for it's current lifestyle, and lacks the knowledge and capability to sustain itself, be free, is moral? Seems like it will be centuries at least before the Menk actually recover from the impending disaster as their society collapses and they struggle to survive on their own. Of course, as the story makes clear the Menk still need to evolve the same mental capacity of the Valakians, which is not guaranteed to ever happen, and if it does will likely take thousands of years. So, one species dies out so that another might one day be able to build it's own civilization(s) is the end result. The Valakians, they're people and culture(s) all vanish, the Menk wither in their absence as they must learn to survive on their own for the first time in centuries, perhaps millennia, and they might never reclaim the standard of living they have presently.

Its more like a planet of the apes situation with less racial commentary.

Except apes aren't provided for by humans. We do not feed, medicate, and clothe them, nor do we have any major contact with them. If all humans died out, it wouldn't deprive the apes of much. The Menk, however, would lose a great deal.

[The Alexanderians]

Its more like a planet of the apes situation with less racial commentary.

Except apes aren't provided for by humans. We do not feed, medicate, and clothe them, nor do we have any major contact with them. If all humans died out, it wouldn't deprive the apes of much. The Menk, however, would lose a great deal.

No but humans were directly responsible for the apes rapid evolution, and after the plague the reduced numbers allowed the monkeys to become a rival.

[Auristania]

The dilemma was not an actual dilemma, so no, it wasn’t handled well. A species was suffering from a genetic disease, which Phlox decided meant that nature intended for them to die out, and thus it would be wrong to cure they’re disease. That’s not a defensible position, for a number of reasons but mostly because nature doesn’t intend anything, and Archer was clearly in the right.

The true dilemma (as in, the one the audience should be concerned with) is whether it was right to negatively impact the future of the Menk (who were, for all intents and purposes, the Valakians' pets, despite arguably being sentient). To that end, I remind you of the good doctor's argument about neanderthals vs homo sapiens.

Bloody Humans! Coming over here, living in our caves, eating our mammoths, *** 2.5% of our women.

Phlox genocided the Humans because he believed that it would improve the Neanderthals somehow.
Phlox denies Evolution is a Natural process; he insists it is a god with deliberate intentions.

In that episode, the Valakians were the Humans and the Menk were the Neanderthals.

[Ameriganastan]

Come on, Orville. That episode was good until you went with the

"All just a simulation" copout twist.

That's what happens when you let Brannon Braga touch the show.

[Tarsonis]

Come on, Orville. That episode was good until you went with the

"All just a simulation" copout twist.

That's what happens when you let Brannon Braga touch the show.

Well I mean, they can't actually destroy the ship until the movie, that's the rules.


But I thought it wasn't a bad version of Remember Me, crossed with IT. However the simulation was probably a poor way out. Perhaps a fear demon trapped her in her own skull, or something would have been better. But the Just a simulation trope was inevitable for this episode.

[Grenartia]

Its more like a planet of the apes situation with less racial commentary.

Except apes aren't provided for by humans. We do not feed, medicate, and clothe them, nor do we have any major contact with them. If all humans died out, it wouldn't deprive the apes of much. The Menk, however, would lose a great deal.

Except the Menk clearly showed enough intelligence to prove they could get by quite well on their own. Besides, how many societies ruled by a computer did Kirk free? While the Valakians aren't computers, the fact is, for all intents and purposes, to the Menk, they might as well serve the same function as Vaal from The Apple, at least as far as your argument is concerned.