Scifi TV Discussion Thread

[Wisconsin9]

In terms of pure aesthetics, my favorite alien ship is the D'deridex. In my opinion, the best the Feds offered in that regard was the Sovereign.

In terms of ass-kicking capability, the best alien ship would either be the Fesarius-Class or the Borg Tactical Cube. Not counting such god-tier ships, the Scimitar or Narada would be the main contenders. The most powerful ship in the prime universe Federation fleet would be the Sovereign (not counting the post-Endgame Voyager, of course). Including all alternate universes, the Galaxy-X would mop the floor with pretty much everything, and including non-canon stuff, the Enterprise-Infinity from Our Million-Year Mission is pretty much the end of the line in terms of both raw power and overall combat capabilities. I must say, though, despite its low firepower compared to the above ships, I have to respect the hardiness of the Defiant.

Factoring in nostalgia, my favorite ship would be the Enterprise-D.

I think the Narada was something of a paper tiger.

Its only apparent ship-to ship weapons were missiles, which it presumably had a finite number of, and it didn't seem particularly fast or maneuverable.

Yes, it took out a Klingon fleet and a Federation fleet, but we know nothing about the details of the former, and the latter was by ambush against a fleet crewed largely with cadets.

Why was it even carrying missiles, anyway? And that lolhueg laser? It's a fucking mining ship, it should've been carrying lots of lasers and no missiles.

Wait I forgot, it's Trek, where small private freighters have shields that can survive a supernova and pack enough heat to kill a city. Carry on. Yes I know that's not actually true I'm exaggerating jeez.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

I think the Narada was something of a paper tiger.

Its only apparent ship-to ship weapons were missiles, which it presumably had a finite number of, and it didn't seem particularly fast or maneuverable.

Yes, it took out a Klingon fleet and a Federation fleet, but we know nothing about the details of the former, and the latter was by ambush against a fleet crewed largely with cadets.

Why was it even carrying missiles, anyway? And that lolhueg laser? It's a fucking mining ship, it should've been carrying lots of lasers and no missiles.

Wait I forgot, it's Trek, where small private freighters have shields that can survive a supernova and pack enough heat to kill a city. Carry on. Yes I know that's not actually true I'm exaggerating jeez.

Well,... maybe not the shield bit, but anough heat to kill a city? Sure. With some creative weaponry the space shuttle could potentially waste new England in all honesty.

[Wisconsin9]

Why was it even carrying missiles, anyway? And that lolhueg laser? It's a fucking mining ship, it should've been carrying lots of lasers and no missiles.

Wait I forgot, it's Trek, where small private freighters have shields that can survive a supernova and pack enough heat to kill a city. Carry on. Yes I know that's not actually true I'm exaggerating jeez.

Well,... maybe not the shield bit, but anough heat to kill a city? Sure. With some creative weaponry the space shuttle could potentially waste new England in all honesty.

If that were true, the military never would have let it die.

[The Romulan Republic]

I think the Narada was something of a paper tiger.

Its only apparent ship-to ship weapons were missiles, which it presumably had a finite number of, and it didn't seem particularly fast or maneuverable.

Yes, it took out a Klingon fleet and a Federation fleet, but we know nothing about the details of the former, and the latter was by ambush against a fleet crewed largely with cadets.

Why was it even carrying missiles, anyway? And that lolhueg laser? It's a fucking mining ship, it should've been carrying lots of lasers and no missiles.

Wait I forgot, it's Trek, where small private freighters have shields that can survive a supernova and pack enough heat to kill a city. Carry on. Yes I know that's not actually true I'm exaggerating jeez.

I seem to vaguely recall something about the missiles being modified mining charges or something.

I don't think its in the film, so its probably not canon, but its as good an explanation as anything.

The laser is obviously for drilling because that's all it ever does and its a mining ship.

The Red Matter, of course, was stolen. I believe the comics gave Nero some stolen Borg tech., which explains the look of the ship and his missiles going through shields.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Well,... maybe not the shield bit, but anough heat to kill a city? Sure. With some creative weaponry the space shuttle could potentially waste new England in all honesty.

If that were true, the military never would have let it die.

Currently, we don't have the capability to mount Tungston rod launchers to the shuttle. But in the 24th century? Sure they would. The Defiant could poison entire planets, I'm sure a private transport could waste a city of so properly inclined and armed.

[The Great Devourer of All]

If that were true, the military never would have let it die.

Currently, we don't have the capability to mount Tungston rod launchers to the shuttle. But in the 24th century? Sure they would. The Defiant could poison entire planets, I'm sure a private transport could waste a city of so properly inclined and armed.

So what you meant to say was 'a specialized space shuttle outfitted by a military organization especially to carry and deliver multiple tungsten rods as effective orbital weapons', not 'the space shuttle', as in the one we have now. There's a very big difference. One is an already-advanced orbital transport and satellite-deploying vehicle retrofitted and repurposed to act as a considerably more advanced orbital weapons platform, and the other is that minus the entire part about retrofitting and repurposing. Besides, your original comment said the space shuttle had enough heat to 'kill a city', but in reality weaponized tungsten rods (called 'Rods from God' in some circles) derive almost all of their destructive power from kinetic, not thermal, energy.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Currently, we don't have the capability to mount Tungston rod launchers to the shuttle. But in the 24th century? Sure they would. The Defiant could poison entire planets, I'm sure a private transport could waste a city of so properly inclined and armed.

So what you meant to say was 'a specialized space shuttle outfitted by a military organization especially to carry and deliver multiple tungsten rods as effective orbital weapons', not 'the space shuttle', as in the one we have now. There's a very big difference. One is an already-advanced orbital transport and satellite-deploying vehicle retrofitted and repurposed to act as a considerably more advanced orbital weapons platform, and the other is that minus the entire part about retrofitting and repurposing. Besides, your original comment said the space shuttle had enough heat to 'kill a city', but in reality weaponized tungsten rods (called 'Rods from God' in some circles) derive almost all of their destructive power from kinetic, not thermal, energy.

1. I said "with some creative weaponry" acknowledging that it would have to be armed first.

2. Packing heat is a well known euphemism for being armed regardless of the type of weaponry.


So piss off with your pathetic attempt to be pretentious and pedantic. You fail horribly.

[The Great Devourer of All]

So what you meant to say was 'a specialized space shuttle outfitted by a military organization especially to carry and deliver multiple tungsten rods as effective orbital weapons', not 'the space shuttle', as in the one we have now. There's a very big difference. One is an already-advanced orbital transport and satellite-deploying vehicle retrofitted and repurposed to act as a considerably more advanced orbital weapons platform, and the other is that minus the entire part about retrofitting and repurposing. Besides, your original comment said the space shuttle had enough heat to 'kill a city', but in reality weaponized tungsten rods (called 'Rods from God' in some circles) derive almost all of their destructive power from kinetic, not thermal, energy.

1. I said "with some creative weaponry" acknowledging that it would have to be armed first.

2. Packing heat is a well known euphemism for being armed regardless of the type of weaponry.


So piss off with your pathetic attempt to be pretentious and pedantic. You fail horribly.

Calm down. If you can't handle people pointing out flaws in your arguments, you shouldn't make your arguments available.

1. I seemed to have missed that. My bad.

2. You didn't make that very clear, which is hardly my fault.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

1. I said "with some creative weaponry" acknowledging that it would have to be armed first.

2. Packing heat is a well known euphemism for being armed regardless of the type of weaponry.


So piss off with your pathetic attempt to be pretentious and pedantic. You fail horribly.

Calm down. If you can't handle people pointing out flaws in your arguments, you shouldn't make your arguments available.

1. I seemed to have missed that. My bad.
2. You didn't make that very clear, which is hardly my fault.

Thwrewere no flaws accept the ones you tried to invent based on false premesis, so my hostility is wel earned.

[The Great Devourer of All]

Calm down. If you can't handle people pointing out flaws in your arguments, you shouldn't make your arguments available.

1. I seemed to have missed that. My bad.
2. You didn't make that very clear, which is hardly my fault.

Thwrewere no flaws accept the ones you tried to invent based on false premesis, so my hostility is wel earned.

Whatever. If you want to be pissy because someone misinterpreted your post, go ahead.


Anyway, I just watched Chosen Realm and Proving Ground of Enterprise. Both were very good in my opinion, but I can't stop thinking about the fact that the dialogue in the latter implies that the Xindi seemed to think Earthbound humanity could survive Earth being literally split in half.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Thwrewere no flaws accept the ones you tried to invent based on false premesis, so my hostility is wel earned.

Whatever. If you want to be pissy because someone misinterpreted your post, go ahead.


Anyway, I just watched Chosen Realm and Proving Ground of Enterprise. Both were very good in my opinion, but I can't stop thinking about the fact that the dialogue in the latter implies that the Xindi seemed to think Earthbound humanity could survive Earth being literally split in half.

I get pissy when someone ignorant of their own misunderstandings. then comes at me in a pretentious and condescending manner using phrases like "so what you meant to say was"

[Kyrusia]

So piss off with your pathetic attempt to be pretentious and pedantic. You fail horribly.

Tarsonis Survivors: *** Warning for flaming. *** If you wish to have discussions here, it will be in a civil and rule-abiding manner.

Whatever. If you want to be pissy because someone misinterpreted your post, go ahead.

And this doesn't help matters.

Cool it. Take a step back. Re-think how each of you wish to approach this discussion; if that doesn't help, add one another to your Ignore Lists.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

So piss off with your pathetic attempt to be pretentious and pedantic. You fail horribly.

Tarsonis Survivors: *** Warning for flaming. *** If you wish to have discussions here, it will be in a civil and rule-abiding manner.

Whatever. If you want to be pissy because someone misinterpreted your post, go ahead.

And this doesn't help matters.

Cool it. Take a step back. Re-think how each of you wish to approach this discussion; if that doesn't help, add one another to your Ignore Lists.

Flagging for appeal, and I'll file a request in moderation.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

So apparently Trump has managed to piss everybody off. There's now a "Trek against trump" movement.

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/star-trek- ... nst-559666

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, since Trump is a self-interested capitalist, anti-science, an advocate of violence, and a raving xenophobe, he is opposed to pretty much everything Star Trek ostensibly stands for (though in actuality, Star Trek's record on all of those issues is inconsistent).

I'm actually pleasantly surprised, though, as its been my experience that for some unfathomable reason, a lot of Star Trek fans are Right-wingers. Of course, even some staunch Right wingers find Trump hard to stomach, with good reason.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Well, since Trump is a self-interested capitalist, anti-science, an advocate of violence, and a raving xenophobe, he is opposed to pretty much everything Star Trek ostensibly stands for (though in actuality, Star Trek's record on all of those issues is inconsistent).

I'm actually pleasantly surprised, though, as its been my experience that for some unfathomable reason, a lot of Star Trek fans are Right-wingers. Of course, even some staunch Right wingers find Trump hard to stomach, with good reason.

I find the "political spectrum" isn't very accurate anymore.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, since Trump is a self-interested capitalist, anti-science, an advocate of violence, and a raving xenophobe, he is opposed to pretty much everything Star Trek ostensibly stands for (though in actuality, Star Trek's record on all of those issues is inconsistent).

I'm actually pleasantly surprised, though, as its been my experience that for some unfathomable reason, a lot of Star Trek fans are Right-wingers. Of course, even some staunch Right wingers find Trump hard to stomach, with good reason.

I find the "political spectrum" isn't very accurate anymore.

I prefer what I call "the Democratic Wheel" to the Left-Right spectrum.

In essence, my main concern, politically, is the preservation of Democracy, which depends on a wide range of supporting policies including freedom of information/expression/conscience/assembly, fair votes, legal equality, and the right to a fair trial, as well as the preservation of the rule of law. I am very much of the opinion that freedom vs. security (or life vs. liberty, if you prefer) is a false dichotomy, that they along with truth are mutually supporting, and that to compromise one to any great extent is to compromise the others.

So I look at weather something undermines or strengthens Democracy. The wheel part comes from the fact that to attempt absolute freedom ultimately leads back to despotism. For one person to have absolute freedom is to put them above others, and to attempt to give everyone absolute freedom is anarchy, which means a power vacuum to be rapidly filled by the strongest gang or gangs to emerge. So either end of the spectrum lands you in much the same place, hence the wheel.

Its still oversimplified, of course, but I think it better reflects my approach to politics.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

I wonder, is the federation a direct democracy? Or more like a parliament structure?

[The Romulan Republic]

I wonder, is the federation a direct democracy? Or more like a parliament structure?

Not a lot of its politics is revealed in canon, and I'd imagine that it changes somewhat over the centuries, but we know that it has a Council representing various member species and/or worlds, and a President. Since TOS's Amok Time references someone turning down a seat on the Federation Council, Councillor is, for some members at least, likely an appointed position. Their are parallels between the Federation and UN, so it might be that member worlds have their own governments, perhaps based on their local customs within certain parameters set by the Federation, which then choose representatives to the Council. No idea how the President is chosen.

Their do appear to be some guarantees of civil rights, including freedom of the press (from the SFDebris reviews, Jake was apparently shocked to find that the Dominion censored his reports).

I believe that their are appearances of a non-Starfleet judiciary and diplomatic corps. too.

[New Roma Republic]

I wonder, is the federation a direct democracy? Or more like a parliament structure?

It is definetly not a direct democracy. They mention the "Federation Council" numerous times, which suggests they have elected representatives. I'd say it's not a parliamentary system, but a presidential system. They have the Federation Council, which consists of elected representatives. Then there is the President, who is separate from the legislature. Because the President is separate from the council, it makes it presidential.

Source: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Unit ... of_Planets

[Ameriganastan]

I wonder, is the federation a direct democracy? Or more like a parliament structure?

They have an elected president.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

I wonder, is the federation a direct democracy? Or more like a parliament structure?

They have an elected president.

They have a president, but that doesn't mean that's the whole government. They could have a parliamentary system, and they call the head of state the president and not the Prime Minister.

[New Roma Republic]

They have an elected president.

They have a president, but that doesn't mean that's the whole government. They could have a parliamentary system, and they call the head of state the president and not the Prime Minister.

No, their President is separate from the Federation Council. To put this in perspective, the Prime Minister of the UK is also a Member of Parliament. S/He is chosen by the parliamentarians. On the other hand, in the US, the President is separate from Congress. So, the Federation is a Presidential System because he is separate from the Legislature.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Interesting, memory alpha shows the federation government is a lot more canonically fleshed out than I believed.

[Drayxaso]

What bridge design is your favorite?

I honestly really do like the TNG bridge, but there are just so many different bridges that I can't pick a favorite.