Scifi TV Discussion Thread

[Tarsonis]

I disagree. Fans said the same shit about DS9 and Enterprise. Though they were much better written, fans came around.

Except they didn't, because even though those series had massive down points (DS9's season 1 and Ent.'s seasons 1 and 2), they still had the spirit of Star Trek and somewhat cared about continuity with the previous series.

STD and STP can't even get that right, and how could they? The people who made the shows have barely seen any ST.

Yes but we're looking at those after the fact. Right? Imagine if they stopped after DS9 season 1? We'd all pretend that crock of shit didn't exist. But we got 6 more seasons and it became the best Series in the entire franchise.

But DS9 got the same criticism that picard is getting in that it "deviated from Gene's vision." DS9 really started to pick at the seams of Gene's utopia, and we really started to see that Gilded future has a few chinks in it. Picard is following that same idea. Is it poorly executed? Sure. I give it about a 4.5/10. But I don't buy into the idea that it's "not trek"

[The Alma Mater]

STD and STP are Star Trek In Name Only, the actual content of the series have almost nothing to do with ST or what ST is about. Star Trek shows under CBS and Bad Robot are Leftsploitation and nothing more really, or like generic crappy sci-fi shows wearing the husk of ST.

And this problem stems from 3 people: Alex Kurtzman who is a shitty writer who only has a job in Hollywood because of family and friends (Similar to how the destroyers of GoT, D&D, got their jobs), Akiva Goldsman who hates good Sci-Fi, and Michael Chabon, a "Pop Culture Consultant" who has as much understanding of ST as the before mentioned RLM's Jay Bauman.

I disagree. Fans said the same shit about DS9 and Enterprise. Though they were much better written, fans came around.

DS9 had the problem of being up against "Lord of the Rings in Space" (B5) - constantly being compared.

Enterprise had the song-intro and mister Quantum Leap as captain. Both put me off at first, though I got used to it. Still, the only eps that I still have fond memories of are the mirror universe ones... so I cannot say the series ever became a success for me.

[The Alma Mater]

Well, that would make them true Star Trek

Nope! There's a difference!

One actually has some semblance of Left-Wing ideas and concepts (What ST generally did... most of the time, when things like space salamanders or Ferengi or codes of honor weren't involved), while the other one got all it knows about Left-Wing ideas from places like Twitter or Tumblr (Leftsploitation).

But that's due to the times. Were in the olden days the mere act of making a Russian and a black woman bridge officers was shocking (let alone the black woman kissing a white man !) - nowadays we live in Trumpian times. Nuance and subtlety no longer work.

[New haven america]

Except they didn't, because even though those series had massive down points (DS9's season 1 and Ent.'s seasons 1 and 2), they still had the spirit of Star Trek and somewhat cared about continuity with the previous series.

STD and STP can't even get that right, and how could they? The people who made the shows have barely seen any ST.

Yes but we're looking at those after the fact. Right? Imagine if they stopped after DS9 season 1? We'd all pretend that crock of shit didn't exist. But we got 6 more seasons and it became the best Series in the entire franchise.

But DS9 got the same criticism that picard is getting in that it "deviated from Gene's vision." DS9 really started to pick at the seams of Gene's utopia, and we really started to see that Gilded future has a few chinks in it. Picard is following that same idea. Is it poorly executed? Sure. I give it about a 4.5/10. But I don't buy into the idea that it's "not trek"

The main difference is that TNG era Trek was made by people who loved the franchise and have been working on it for ~20 years, while Alex, Akiva, and Michael have never made a good tv show or movie in their entire life.

So no, as long as those 3 are in charge STD and STP will never be as good or well liked as TNG or DS9 or Ent.'s 3rd and 4th seasons. I don't trust them and their track records.

[Vassenor]

So basically the social messages in old trek are OK but the more contemporary social messages in current trek are terribad because arbitrary reasons.

[Tarsonis]

Nope! There's a difference!

One actually has some semblance of Left-Wing ideas and concepts (What ST generally did... most of the time, when things like space salamanders or Ferengi or codes of honor weren't involved), while the other one got all it knows about Left-Wing ideas from places like Twitter or Tumblr (Leftsploitation).

But that's due to the times. Were in the olden days the mere act of making a Russian and a black woman bridge officers was shocking (let alone the black woman kissing a white man !) - nowadays we live in Trumpian times. Nuance and subtlety no longer work.

Picard season 2: 10 episodes of the crew social distancing. Watch as Picard catches up on the newest operas

[New haven america]

So basically the social messages in old trek are OK but the more contemporary social messages in current trek are terribad because arbitrary reasons.

They're bad because they've made The Federation into the modern day US (With all the issues it has) and seemingly everyone is a xenophobic psychopath or drug addict. Old ST is what humanity could be or what we should aspire to be, while STD and STP are crappy BSG 04 rip offs. (Ironically BSG 04 was made by a former ST writer and did a better job at handling modern social issues and messages than STD and STP ever will)

Hell, The Expanse is a bleak and serious show full of modern day social messages and problems, but that actually works because the entire point of the series is that humanity's deep rooted social issues are never going to away unless people actually work towards fixing those issues and moving past our biases and issues.

[New haven america]

But that's due to the times. Were in the olden days the mere act of making a Russian and a black woman bridge officers was shocking (let alone the black woman kissing a white man !) - nowadays we live in Trumpian times. Nuance and subtlety no longer work.

Picard season 2: 10 episodes of the crew social distancing. Watch as Picard catches up on the newest operas

You joke but there's a good chance that that will be the case.

A synthetic virus starts spreading through the Federation so now all species have to stay at least 10 ft away from each other or else they'll develope into a massive cyborg-Gravemind flood from Halo-like monster related to Control wants to destroy the Universe or something.

[Tarsonis]

Picard season 2: 10 episodes of the crew social distancing. Watch as Picard catches up on the newest operas

You joke but there's a good chance that that will be the case.

A synthetic virus starts spreading through the Federation so now all species have to stay at least 10 ft away from each other or else they'll develope into a massive cyborg-Gravemind flood from Halo-like monster related to Control wants to destroy the Universe or something.

I'd laugh my balls off

[The Alma Mater]

Just a crosspost from another thread which I feel fits here

(Image)

[Tarsonis]

Just a crosspost from another thread which I feel fits here

(Image)

Accurate

[The Huskar Social Union]

[Tarsonis]

https://youtu.be/lMHAZwR-BdQ


This video still makes me laugh uncontrollably

[Auristania]

I think they actually got the Post-scarcity economics right.

They have TOTALLY got it wrong.
Neutral Zone Some people from our time were frozen, Picard explains the New World Order, We don't have money which proves that you Humans are scum Mwah hah ha. Picard NEVAH explains how the New World Order can possibly work: he just proclaims We Elves are better than you Hyoomonns.

Picard has a huge vineyard and chateau. Papa Sisko has a tiny teeny restaurant. Everyone else got Nothing.

[Tarsonis]

I think they actually got the Post-scarcity economics right.

They have TOTALLY got it wrong.
Neutral Zone Some people from our time were frozen, Picard explains the New World Order, We don't have money which proves that you Humans are scum Mwah hah ha. Picard NEVAH explains how the New World Order can possibly work: he just proclaims We Elves are better than you Hyoomonns.

Picard has a huge vineyard and chateau. Papa Sisko has a tiny teeny restaurant. Everyone else got Nothing.

And yet DS9, Voyager, and Later episodes of TNG show how that isn't accurate

[Auristania]

Not accurate? You are saying those episodes DO explain how a moneyless economy can possibly work??? Please share with the rest of the Class.

[Auristania]

https://youtu.be/lMHAZwR-BdQ


This video still makes me laugh uncontrollably

[The Cosmic Mainframe]

Not accurate? You are saying those episodes DO explain how a moneyless economy can possibly work??? Please share with the rest of the Class.

The moneyless economy isn't the main focus of Star Trek. I doubt many viewers would appreciate an economics lesson in the middle of an episode.

Also, arguably the Federation is more similar to Nordic social democracy than post-scarcity communism, especially given the ways Star Trek contradicts itself with regard to its economics.

[Philjia]

The Federation is probably mostly mostly moneyless, with access to scarcer resources limited by an allowance of credits. The replicators will be limited in application by their size, the computing power needed to design certain molecules, and amount the raw matter needed to produce an object.

[Myrensis]

https://youtu.be/lMHAZwR-BdQ


This video still makes me laugh uncontrollably

On a semi-tangent, I've always wondered how Riker managed not to get tossed out on his ass after actually losing the Enterprise-D to a comically outclassed Bird of Prey, given that we were told in Measure of a Man that Court Martials are standard when a ship is lost.

"What steps did you take to defend the ship, Commander Riker?"

"I fired a torpedo."

"What else?"

"What do you mean, what else? I fired a whole entire torpedo and we didn't win, what else could we do but resign ourselves to death?"

[Tarsonis]

https://youtu.be/lMHAZwR-BdQ


This video still makes me laugh uncontrollably

On a semi-tangent, I've always wondered how Riker managed not to get tossed out on his ass after actually losing the Enterprise-D to a comically outclassed Bird of Prey, given that we were told in Measure of a Man that Court Martials are standard when a ship is lost.

"What steps did you take to defend the ship, Commander Riker?"

"I fired a torpedo."

"What else?"

"What do you mean, what else? I fired a whole entire torpedo and we didn't win, what else could we do but resign ourselves to death?"

Doesn't matter if your sword is bigger than mine, if i stab you right in the heart. While the Enterprise D was of a much heavier class, the Bird of Prey had a tactical advantage: it was able to fire through their shields. That fired torpedo was effective once they forced the Bird to decloak, but by then they had already done enough damage to kill the enterprise. Riker did everything he could. He found a way to overcome his enemy's tactical advantage, and he saved the crew at the expense of the ship.



I'm sure there was a Court Marshall, but a Court Marshall is a hearing not a conviction. Im sure he made adequate defense, Picard made the usual platitudes of how commanded admirably under the situations, and what not. Also consider Riker saved the Earth during the Borg Crisis by rescuing Picard. Hard to just toss a hero like that to the curb.

[Myrensis]

On a semi-tangent, I've always wondered how Riker managed not to get tossed out on his ass after actually losing the Enterprise-D to a comically outclassed Bird of Prey, given that we were told in Measure of a Man that Court Martials are standard when a ship is lost.

"What steps did you take to defend the ship, Commander Riker?"

"I fired a torpedo."

"What else?"

"What do you mean, what else? I fired a whole entire torpedo and we didn't win, what else could we do but resign ourselves to death?"

Doesn't matter if your sword is bigger than mine, if i stab you right in the heart. While the Enterprise D was of a much heavier class, the Bird of Prey had a tactical advantage: it was able to fire through their shields. That fired torpedo was effective once they forced the Bird to decloak, but by then they had already done enough damage to kill the enterprise. Riker did everything he could. He found a way to overcome his enemy's tactical advantage, and he saved the crew at the expense of the ship.



I'm sure there was a Court Marshall, but a Court Marshall is a hearing not a conviction. Im sure he made adequate defense, Picard made the usual platitudes of how commanded admirably under the situations, and what not. Also consider Riker saved the Earth during the Borg Crisis by rescuing Picard. Hard to just toss a hero like that to the curb.

You know what else would probably have been effective? Opening fire on the BoP with everything they had.

Though I have to correct myself, it wasn't a torpedo, he tried firing 1 phaser 1 time before proceeding to do nothing until they figured out a technobabble solution, the torpedo is what he used after.

Maybe he should have tried something more like this.

[Tarsonis]

Doesn't matter if your sword is bigger than mine, if i stab you right in the heart. While the Enterprise D was of a much heavier class, the Bird of Prey had a tactical advantage: it was able to fire through their shields. That fired torpedo was effective once they forced the Bird to decloak, but by then they had already done enough damage to kill the enterprise. Riker did everything he could. He found a way to overcome his enemy's tactical advantage, and he saved the crew at the expense of the ship.



I'm sure there was a Court Marshall, but a Court Marshall is a hearing not a conviction. Im sure he made adequate defense, Picard made the usual platitudes of how commanded admirably under the situations, and what not. Also consider Riker saved the Earth during the Borg Crisis by rescuing Picard. Hard to just toss a hero like that to the curb.

You know what else would probably have been effective? Opening fire on the BoP with everything they had.

Though I have to correct myself, it wasn't a torpedo, he tried firing 1 phaser 1 time before proceeding to do nothing until they figured out a technobabble solution, the torpedo is what he used after.

Maybe he should have tried something more like this.

Except they knew where that ship was and weren't getting blasted to hell by a cloaked Warbird.

I mean Kirk and Sulu didn't fire randomly into infinite space hoping to get a hit, they suffered the damage until they had a tracking torpedo. Riker did a similar thing here, so similar they reusused the photage of the Bird of Prey blowing up.

[Myrensis]

You know what else would probably have been effective? Opening fire on the BoP with everything they had.

Though I have to correct myself, it wasn't a torpedo, he tried firing 1 phaser 1 time before proceeding to do nothing until they figured out a technobabble solution, the torpedo is what he used after.

Maybe he should have tried something more like this.

Except they knew where that ship was and weren't getting blasted to hell by a cloaked Warbird.

I mean Kirk and Sulu didn't fire randomly into infinite space hoping to get a hit, they suffered the damage until they had a tracking torpedo. Riker did a similar thing here, so similar they reusused the photage of the Bird of Prey blowing up.

The Bird of Prey was not cloaked though, it was sitting right in front of them. The technobabble solution was actually forcing it to cloak and therefore drop its shields.

Here is literally the only shot Riker fired before that, while the BoP continued hammering the Enterprise:

[Vassenor]

The Federation is probably mostly mostly moneyless, with access to scarcer resources limited by an allowance of credits. The replicators will be limited in application by their size, the computing power needed to design certain molecules, and amount the raw matter needed to produce an object.

Which is why Latinum has any value - it's explicitly stated to not be replicatable.