Scifi TV Discussion Thread

[Twilight Imperium]

"Right, but where has that power led you? Into the primitive, barbaric hands of the 21st century running your subroutines on the brain of a socially-awkward squirrel."

Is it any wonder the Queen decided to take a hard look at herself? I wouldn't want to be stuck in Jurati's head.

[Tarsonis]

"Right, but where has that power led you? Into the primitive, barbaric hands of the 21st century running your subroutines on the brain of a socially-awkward squirrel."

Is it any wonder the Queen decided to take a hard look at herself? I wouldn't want to be stuck in Jurati's head.

Jokes aside, it fits perfectly in with the theme of Star Trek. Ond of the major pervasive themes is that enemies can find common ground and become friends. The Andorians and Vulcans, once bitter enemies, join forces and help form the Federation. (ENT) Klingons emerge as the Federations prolific Rival in TOS, only to become staunch allies during the TNG and DS9 Arcs. Romulans become much friendlier during DS9 and by the end of Nemesis. Cardassia eventually joins the Federation according to DIS, as well as the Ferengi. So the Borg becoming more amicable to the Federation isn't a totally ridiculous notion.

Now, Granted the Borg making this kind of transition should take place over like 6 seasons not 6 episodes, but the premise is pretty sound: this particular Queen has seen the destruction of her collective first hand. In the prime universe the borg are a crippled relic of their former selves thanks to Janeway. Jurati's point has merit that regardless of Universe, the Borg always end in bitter destruction, because their nature guarantees such eventuality. When you advance by conquest, your existence has a shelflife. You will always face resistance. Whether it's the Federation, The Undine, or some unknown species, they will eventually find a rival that can resist, and thus that rival, recognizing the threat the Borg pose, will eliminate them.

The Borg at the height of their power a la TNG and the beginning of Voyager won't be open to reason cause hey they're on top of the food chain. But getting bitchslapped by the Undine across the Delta Quadrant made them much more open to negotiating with Janeway. The Queen is in a similar position, and thus the proposition "let's try it another way" is something she'd be much more amenable to.


Also, since the current collective is a collective of 2, Jurrati can't be silenced like she would be in a collective of billions. We know from Voyager that subconscious resistance does exist in the collective. So without a huge collective to drown it out, Jurati's is a position to influence the Queen.

[Ameriganastan]

I was never much into the whole concept of a Borg Queen, really. They were a lot more menacing when they were just this collective of drones who couldn't be reasoned with. The queen I felt kind of took some of the shine off.

[Tarsonis]

I was never much into the whole concept of a Borg Queen, really. They were a lot more menacing when they were just this collective of drones who couldn't be reasoned with. The queen I felt kind of took some of the shine off.

Yeah, I don't disagree. But I think she does propose an interesting debate about what she really is. Is she a monarch and the Borg are basically like insects? or is she rather a focalization of the collectives' will into a singular entity. Does she lead the collective, or is she the collective? or is it something in between?

[Stellar Colonies]

I was never much into the whole concept of a Borg Queen, really. They were a lot more menacing when they were just this collective of drones who couldn't be reasoned with. The queen I felt kind of took some of the shine off.

Yeah, I don't disagree. But I think she does propose an interesting debate about what she really is. Is she a monarch and the Borg are basically like insects? or is she rather a focalization of the collectives' will into a singular entity. Does she lead the collective, or is she the collective? or is it something in between?

I'd thought of the Queen as being the latter, basically a personification of the Collective, after watching First Contact, but VOY slowly tore that idea apart. PIC seems to be continuing with making her a distinct entity which directs the Borg, since this Tuvixing of the two seems to be a fairly even mix between her and Jurati.

[Tarsonis]

Yeah, I don't disagree. But I think she does propose an interesting debate about what she really is. Is she a monarch and the Borg are basically like insects? or is she rather a focalization of the collectives' will into a singular entity. Does she lead the collective, or is she the collective? or is it something in between?

I'd thought of the Queen as being the latter, basically a personification of the Collective, after watching First Contact, but VOY slowly tore that idea apart. PIC seems to be continuing with making her a distinct entity which directs the Borg, since this Tuvixing of the two seems to be a fairly even mix between her and Jurati.

It's shame we never got that Borg origin plot, which would shed more light on how that work. The Queens weirdly arent original Borg. They were assimilated and are from species 125. So what was the Borg like before assimilating this species?

[Twilight Imperium]

I'd thought of the Queen as being the latter, basically a personification of the Collective, after watching First Contact, but VOY slowly tore that idea apart. PIC seems to be continuing with making her a distinct entity which directs the Borg, since this Tuvixing of the two seems to be a fairly even mix between her and Jurati.

It's shame we never got that Borg origin plot, which would shed more light on how that work. The Queens weirdly arent original Borg. They were assimilated and are from species 125. So what was the Borg like before assimilating this species?

I'd always seen them as the top of hierarchical trees - those nodes the TNG crew were shooting out in Best of Both Worlds being the lowest level, and the Queen(s) as highest level. They'd absolutely have command overrides over lower nodes and access to subroutines like "op picard" and sexy_menace.exe

[New haven america]

I don't even have to pay attention to know the low-quality bait you 2 threw out. All too predictable at this point.

I was never much into the whole concept of a Borg Queen, really. They were a lot more menacing when they were just this collective of drones who couldn't be reasoned with. The queen I felt kind of took some of the shine off.

I think she could work in certain scenarios.

Kinda like Locutus, they serve a specific purpose for specific situations. In the Queen's case, she'd be a crisis management program, when things get too out of control for the collective they release her to deal with it and then put her back in statis when not needed. She's still part of the collective but she's not a drone, she's just programed to act and deal with individuals with more nuance.

Plus, before Alex stole control of the franchise, every appearance of the Queen did happen in crisis situations, when the Borg were dealing with serious issues drones couldn't really deal with.

Plus plus, this opens the door to other specialized Borg. Like maybe emergency repairs Borg or fighter Borg, who are called on when a regular drone isn't up to the job.

[The Two Jerseys]

I was never much into the whole concept of a Borg Queen, really. They were a lot more menacing when they were just this collective of drones who couldn't be reasoned with. The queen I felt kind of took some of the shine off.

Yeah, I don't disagree. But I think she does propose an interesting debate about what she really is. Is she a monarch and the Borg are basically like insects? or is she rather a focalization of the collectives' will into a singular entity. Does she lead the collective, or is she the collective? or is it something in between?

Instead of a Borg Queen they really should've just done a Locutus 2.0.

[Twilight Imperium]

Plus, before Alex stole control of the franchise, every appearance of the Queen did happen in crisis situations, when the Borg were dealing with serious issues drones couldn't really deal with.

That's a good angle, actually - and near-death at the hands of the Confederacy would definitely count. I wonder if those crazy super-Borg from Elite Force would be covered under the same theory?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I don't even have to pay attention to know the low-quality bait you 2 threw out. All too predictable at this point.

I was never much into the whole concept of a Borg Queen, really. They were a lot more menacing when they were just this collective of drones who couldn't be reasoned with. The queen I felt kind of took some of the shine off.

I think she could work in certain scenarios.

Kinda like Locutus, they serve a specific purpose for specific situations. In the Queen's case, she'd be a crisis management program, when things get too out of control for the collective they release her to deal with it and then put her back in statis when not needed. She's still part of the collective but she's not a drone, she's just programed to act and deal with individuals with more nuance.

Plus, before Alex stole control of the franchise, every appearance of the Queen did happen in crisis situations, when the Borg were dealing with serious issues drones couldn't really deal with.

Plus, this opens the door to other specialized Borg. Like maybe emergency repairers or fighters, who are called on when a regular drone isn't up to the job.

I haven't seen Picard S2, but Voyager sought to it that the Queen would appear it many situations. Not all of which were urgent or pivotal for the survival of the borg.

[Tarsonis]

I don't even have to pay attention to know the low-quality bait you 2 threw out. All too predictable at this point.

except that nobody baited you and we were having a pretty fun discussion. It's truly incredible the ways you find to fail.

I don't even have to pay attention to know the low-quality bait you 2 threw out. All too predictable at this point.


I think she could work in certain scenarios.

Kinda like Locutus, they serve a specific purpose for specific situations. In the Queen's case, she'd be a crisis management program, when things get too out of control for the collective they release her to deal with it and then put her back in statis when not needed. She's still part of the collective but she's not a drone, she's just programed to act and deal with individuals with more nuance.

Plus, before Alex stole control of the franchise, every appearance of the Queen did happen in crisis situations, when the Borg were dealing with serious issues drones couldn't really deal with.

Plus, this opens the door to other specialized Borg. Like maybe emergency repairers or fighters, who are called on when a regular drone isn't up to the job.

I haven't seen Picard S2, but Voyager sought to it that the Queen would appear it many situations. Not all of which were urgent or pivotal for the survival of the borg.

it's ironic that for all NHA's complaining about Kurtzman, it would appear that Kurtzman knows the series better than NHA

[Tarsonis]

Yeah, I don't disagree. But I think she does propose an interesting debate about what she really is. Is she a monarch and the Borg are basically like insects? or is she rather a focalization of the collectives' will into a singular entity. Does she lead the collective, or is she the collective? or is it something in between?

Instead of a Borg Queen they really should've just done a Locutus 2.0.

Eh, I think Stewart's a bit old to be donning all that makeup.

[Nevertopia]

speaking of space robots, i really wished that the Replicators became a friendly/neutral species in Stargate after they evolved enough to become sentient. Like the entire premise to why people hated the replicators was because they were mindless android swarms that consumed everything to create more of themselves. Now that they're sentient, they should at least be able to see reason.

huh, if i had a nickel for every time a mindless robot swarm tried to take over a galaxy in a serialized tv show, Id have two nickels.

[Tarsonis]

speaking of space robots, i really wished that the Replicators became a friendly/neutral species in Stargate after they evolved enough to become sentient. Like the entire premise to why people hated the replicators was because they were mindless android swarms that consumed everything to create more of themselves. Now that they're sentient, they should at least be able to see reason.

I don't think that could ever really happen though. The replicators were filled with the need to consume in order to procreate, like a virus. Even when the numbered gained sentience, they were still driven by this need and thus all their reasoning stemmed from this. Throw in Fifths emotional turmoil, an RepCarters' twisted ambition and there's no chance that need to feed transitions into coexistence.

The Asurans on the other hand were ruined by coding. So long as the Tauri could manipulate them, the Asurans would always be at odds with them.

[Nevertopia]

speaking of space robots, i really wished that the Replicators became a friendly/neutral species in Stargate after they evolved enough to become sentient. Like the entire premise to why people hated the replicators was because they were mindless android swarms that consumed everything to create more of themselves. Now that they're sentient, they should at least be able to see reason.

I don't think that could ever really happen though. The replicators were filled with the need to consume in order to procreate, like a virus. Even when the numbered gained sentience, they were still driven by this need and thus all their reasoning stemmed from this. Throw in Fifths emotional turmoil, an RepCarters' twisted ambition and there's no chance that need to feed transitions into coexistence.

The Asurans on the other hand were ruined by coding. So long as the Tauri could manipulate them, the Asurans would always be at odds with them.

tbh I just want to see replicator Elizabeth Weir again.

[Tarsonis]

I don't think that could ever really happen though. The replicators were filled with the need to consume in order to procreate, like a virus. Even when the numbered gained sentience, they were still driven by this need and thus all their reasoning stemmed from this. Throw in Fifths emotional turmoil, an RepCarters' twisted ambition and there's no chance that need to feed transitions into coexistence.

The Asurans on the other hand were ruined by coding. So long as the Tauri could manipulate them, the Asurans would always be at odds with them.

tbh I just want to see replicator Elizabeth Weir again.

Which one?

[Juristonia]

"Right, but where has that power led you? Into the primitive, barbaric hands of the 21st century running your subroutines on the brain of a socially-awkward squirrel."

Is it any wonder the Queen decided to take a hard look at herself? I wouldn't want to be stuck in Jurati's head.

Man, I would.

[The Two Jerseys]

Instead of a Borg Queen they really should've just done a Locutus 2.0.

Eh, I think Stewart's a bit old to be donning all that makeup.

I was thinking more like a different character that serves the same "Borg spokesman" role, but unlike the Queen it's clear that he's just a drone acting as a mouthpiece.

[Tarsonis]

Eh, I think Stewart's a bit old to be donning all that makeup.

I was thinking more like a different character that serves the same "Borg spokesman" role, but unlike the Queen it's clear that he's just a drone acting as a mouthpiece.

Stewart has creative control, so technically he's the queen here

[The Two Jerseys]

I was thinking more like a different character that serves the same "Borg spokesman" role, but unlike the Queen it's clear that he's just a drone acting as a mouthpiece.

Stewart has creative control, so technically he's the queen here

This post sounds like the setup for an American Dad gag...

[Ameriganastan]

Stewart has creative control, so technically he's the queen here

This post sounds like the setup for an American Dad gag...

Or a great comedy movie with him and Ian McKellen.

[Nevertopia]

tbh I just want to see replicator Elizabeth Weir again.

Which one?

maybe a new backup copy who thinks shes the real weir but ends up making a splinter faction of good replicators who dont just consume everything in their path.

[Hamidiye]

Instead of a Borg Queen they really should've just done a Locutus 2.0.

Eh, I think Stewart's a bit old to be donning all that makeup.

Who gives a shit, that crap isn't star trek anyway. That ship died in 1998.

[Nevertopia]

man why is the machine race in these scifi shows always bad guys? Cant we have more Transformer races? Where are my Optimus Primes at in the galaxy? We need more good guy machine races in sci-fi. And not "Oh they were evil but got an upgrade later", but they have been prominently benign. What scifi shows do we have where thats even true?