General fallout discussion thread: Eureka!

[Orham]

I liked aligning myself with the NCR at first, solely because I enjoyed feeling like I was actually helping people, rather than trying and failing to stop super mutants from slaughtering innocent wastelanders guarded by the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 3.

The game was significantly less focused on the problem of super mutants (or meta-humans, I guess) and much more focused on the conflict for the purifier. Simply finding Vault 87 and alerting the Brotherhood of its contents is an act which dooms the local super mutant population anyway, so it's reasonable to infer that eventually they started to die out, specially if the rate that the player wipes them out stays steady after the end. By the time you're done exploring the Capital Wasteland, you've taken down as many super mutants as you have cut blades of grass when you mow a small lawn.

In fact, by the time you're done with a "Very Good" game you're well on your way to turning the DC Wasteland into a functioning microstate. It's not one, but it's going that direction.

However, I eventually realized that the NCR-Legion conflict was just too black and white. Pretty much every faction is either a caring, helpful angel of salvation or a horrible, ruthless monster of destruction. The only truly "bad" thing I could think of with the NCR conquering the Mojave was martial law over the wastelanders, which was infinitely better than the raping, burning, and massive destruction that would follow if I helped the Legion.

It wasn't really that black and white. The NCR had a lot of problems to deal with, and its quests sometimes left you with some pretty tough choices. Or at least they're tough choices if you drop the "good guy", "bad guy" interpretation of the factions and look at them objectively. For instance:

-Do you wipe out the Great Khans, or do you try to integrate them into an NCR-dominated world?
-Do you destroy the Brotherhood of Steel's bunker as Col. Moore has ordered, or do you spare their lives?
-Do you rescue the prisoners at Nelson, or do you sacrifice them to demoralize the Legion and retake it quickly?
-Do you torture Silas, or do you verbally interrogate him?
-Do you let Primm stay independent, or do you subject them to martial law?
-Do you take revenge on the Crimson Caravan and Van Graffs with Cass, or do you bring their crimes to the right peoples' attention?

After a lot of going back and forth on the options, my pro-NCR courier ultimately implemented the following solutions to these dilemmas:

-Wipe out the Khans, they're the primary source of illegal chems and also constitute a violent threat to the population of the Mojave
-Wipe out the Brotherhood, they're enemies in an ongoing war with the NCR
-Rescue the prisoners, no man left behind
-Verbally interrogate
-Take Primm for the NCR, it's proven that even with a good sheriff it can't defend itself sufficiently as an independent community
-Calm Cass down and bring these crimes to the attention of the good people in the NCR, it's the lasting solution and doesn't disrupt NCR's already very troubled supply lines any further by removing Crimson Caravan from the equation

Getting to the DLC, there are some more NCR relevant dilemmas:

-Do you kill Ulysses for his Legion past and stated intention to harm the NCR?
-Do you launch atomic warheads at Legion territory?
-Do you slaughter the Whitelegs for aligning themselves with Legion?

I ultimately concluded that my NCR courier would answer these dilemmas like this:

-Kill Ulysses. He's a clear danger to the NCR.
-No. It isn't known (at the time the decision is being made) whether Caeser has a retaliatory strike prepared, and the tragedy at Camp Searchlight makes this a real possibility. That level of escalation in hostilities would be disastrous for both Legion and NCR.
-Yes. The Dead Horses, The Courier concludes, needed to be taught how to defend themselves and the Whitelegs posed a danger to the NCR by affiliating themselves with Legion.

Honest Hearts actually presented a really fun opportunity to develop my NCR courier's character quite a bit. If you're interested, read on.

The Courier had, up until that point, been a "Wide-Eyed Idealist" rationalizing everything along the lines of the "For Great Justice" trope. It's a fantastic character type all on its own (one of my favorites), but I wanted to put a more interesting swing on my character's story. I was going to have to sacrifice some of my character's idealism in order to let it grow any further. There was just nowhere to go but down on the idealism scale.

Seeing the Dead Horses so radically changed, people once harmless and perfectly peaceful now turned into effective killers, caused The Courier to experience a case of "My God, What Have I Done?", and possibly a case of what started out appearing like a "Heel Realization". The Courier, I decided, then started genuinely doubting that his/her arrival was a case of "Big Damn Heroes" at all, and began to worry that maybe he/she had really just been a villain all along, whether he/she was just as bad as Caeser. And that thought was absolutely terrifying.

I played Dead Money next, and that just fit right into this thing. My character, facing an internal crisis and not certain if that flash in the abandoned BoS bunker had been passing out or dying, was plunged into a hellish landscape complete with rust red clouds and tireless demons. He/she had already been going through an internal and self-directed "The Reason You Suck Speech", and now The Courier found him/herself in an environment resembling Hell itself. "Tears of Remorse" ensued, followed by resigning to what was perceived as a well-deserved fate. The character had been broken, and was no longer a "Wide-Eyed Idealist". He/she was "The Atoner" now, and a particularly self-hating one. The Courier struggled against the brutal environment of the Villa, but didn't try to leave.

Eventually the experiences in the Villa crafted the character into a type one "Knight in Sour Armor" for the NCR. Madmen like Elijah and Caeser were everywhere, and they were going to win if The Courier just wallowed in self-loathing. The Courier was going to live, dammit, and the Mojave would be placed under an NCR banner. Because failing the NCR would've made all the lives sacrificed in its name meaningless, and it would mean that the ideals The Courier had once held dear would be acknowledged as truly hollow. Neither could be allowed.

And so, The Courier continued on for the rest of the game as a type one "Knight in Sour Armor" defending the NCR with all his/her vigor and passion. And I had a really deep, interesting Fallout New Vegas character that wasn't built around "Rah! Rah! NCR!".

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... edIdealist
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... eatJustice
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... tHaveIDone
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ealization
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... DamnHeroes
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... SuckSpeech
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... sOfRemorse
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheAtoner
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... nSourArmor

[The Marxist State]

I've done two New Vegas playthroughs. One on the Vanilla game where I went with the NCR, and another with all add-ons where I went independent.

My independent playthrough started as a Legion one, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it and went with a more "chaotic" evil.

Currently just in the early stages of what will end up being a Mr. House playthrough. Also my first hardcore playthrough. So far the only difficult part is the doctors bags for crippled limbs. Dead Money is going to be a bitch though.

[Old Vester]

I've done two New Vegas playthroughs. One on the Vanilla game where I went with the NCR, and another with all add-ons where I went independent.

My independent playthrough started as a Legion one, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it and went with a more "chaotic" evil.

Currently just in the early stages of what will end up being a Mr. House playthrough. Also my first hardcore playthrough. So far the only difficult part is the doctors bags for crippled limbs. Dead Money is going to be a bitch though.

Try aiming for Hydra instead. It's better for you and is sponsored by drug dealers.

[The Zeonic States]

I've done two New Vegas playthroughs. One on the Vanilla game where I went with the NCR, and another with all add-ons where I went independent.

My independent playthrough started as a Legion one, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it and went with a more "chaotic" evil.

Currently just in the early stages of what will end up being a Mr. House playthrough. Also my first hardcore playthrough. So far the only difficult part is the doctors bags for crippled limbs. Dead Money is going to be a bitch though.

Try aiming for Hydra instead. It's better for you and is sponsored by drug dealers.

Plus that Adamintine perk reduces cripple rate by 50%.

[Old Vester]

Try aiming for Hydra instead. It's better for you and is sponsored by drug dealers.

Plus that Adamintine perk reduces cripple rate by 50%.

Plus more if you can get the toughness perk.

[Imperial isa]

I never plan on finishing the main story

[Esternial]

I'm going independent now, mainly because my character is good and - as proven - the NCR won't be able to stretch out their forces like this forever. So, by allowing House to claim New Vegas, which can then act as a buffer zone between the NCR and the Legion, allowing the NCR to focus their efforts elsewhere while Mr. House keeps the Legion across the river.

[The Zeonic States]

My “Truest” NV Courier I suppose was the Mercenary Courier who eventually abandoned Morality as a guiding sense of what was Right or Wrong. He was initially guided by it through most of his Journeys but slowly he began to abandon it in favor of a Utilitarian outlook on human life.

When he wandered off into the vast deserts of the Mojave he Discovered the weakness and corruption of the NCR he aided them initially due to his Principle of Mercenarism with Currency, Wealth being the desired thing within reach for him to “Seize control” of his world so to speak.
However after seeing the suffering of the people of the Mojave suffering under the imposed Militarism of the NCR he slowly drifted away from them and support of their position and that was when he first encountered the Legion.

The Alien society was completely unlike anything he had experience previously in his entire life; While he had heard stories of the Legion the actual thing was still shocking. Like the NCR he occasionally did jobs for the Legion and was paid well for his services but as his Journeys continued it began to be less about currency and more about the future of Humanity.

He had experienced NCR life, he had seen the corruption, vices, wickedness and just downright Brutality of their rule. He had seen that the Legion while alien shared similarities with the NCR they were both expansionist societies however where the NCR encouraged Human Nature to pervert and corrupt the system the Legion allowed the Individual only to serve and through that they had conquered and conquered.

He thought about the two systems as he reached the strip, Met Mr. House, Caesar, The NCR ambassador Crocker.

He learned more of the Legion system and realized that whatever the Legion lacked in Respect of the individual it made up with in respect to the society as every act advanced the society, every act pushed in the same singular direction.

He compared it to what he had seen of the NCR in the Mojave and the Disjointed effect it had.

That unity, that broad sense of purpose was what the Courier had wanted, it was what he carried with him in one form or another his entire life as he marched from place to place but by the time he had met Caesar and his Journey was nearing its climax he decided he would serve the system.

He lost himself in that system but he never forgot his reasoning for join it and that was what he carried with him during his walks through the Big Empty, The Sierra Madre, Zion throughout all these journeys he came to the same conclusion again and again; the world was disjointed, lacked uniform purpose and the people of it were corrupted by delusions of the old world and as long as people fixated upon the world could never be rebuilt. And finally during his last trek.

During his Trek through the Divide especially as it became clearer and clearer that the Former Fumenatari had not only abandoned the way he had once walked but was also preparing to unleash a nuclear strike against the NCR; While the Courier didn’t care about the potential NCR losses during the strike did care about how the NCR might react to the strike and how the Mojave might suffer all the more because of it.

During the Courier’s fight to the Temple and once he finally reached where two couriers met and their positions now reversed from their initial position.

The Courier ultimately struck down the former Fumentari and prevented the launch.

He was now thoroughly convinced that while the Legion’s System of governance was far from perfect only the individual could fail the system while the system didn’t fail the individual unlike the NCR’s System. And while he viewed this as harsh he also viewed it as a necessary evil within the world already corrupted by individualism and hedonism.

And that was the Mantra he went into war with the NCR with.

From striking down their position at Forlorn Hope to Helios one he struck at them until the Battle for the Dam came and in one rushing surge of Unity the Bull crushed the Two Headed Bear and while the Victory for the Legion and thus the Ideology the Courier had come to adopt as his own was sweet. He knew it was but the first of several needed victories for the Legion to actually achieve its aim.

[Yes Im Biop]

I'm Loving Hardcore. Just make sure your 40+ Fore dead money and have 100 Survival and Meds... SO many goddamn sugar bombs..

[Orham]

Zeon, that was fun to read. And so, to reciprocate, instead of giving you my "eh, I'll edit the story to change the pace", I present to you the "true" NCR courier a la Orham. Before we take off on this journey, though, I'll make a note that even my "true" NCR character isn't actually a self-insert. I have a tendency not to do that, the "Author Avatar" trope just leads down a lot of nasty plot roads and character types I'd rather not mess with *COUGH* Mary-Sue/Marty Stu *COUGH*.

The Courier had wandered many places in the time before Benny fired the shot which changed his/her fate forever. He/she had felt the terror of the Deathclaw's swipe, heard the unyielding howls of the feral ghouls, witnessed the desperation of scattered super mutants without their master's guidance, and noted the despair in the eyes of every Enclave Remnant who had managed to survive both the war and the manhunt that followed it. Hollow fields covered in dust and baked by the blazing sun, trickling streams gently lapping at their sandy shores, and the skeletal remains of cities long gone and yet still freshly glowing with the radiation rained down upon them in humanity's single most self-destructive act, The Courier felt as at home in any of these places as he/she ever felt in Angel's Boneyard, the place of his/her birth.

And until Maria's blaring report and The Courier's subsequent cold drop to the ground, that's all he/she ever was, all he/she ever wanted to be: a courier. Not a builder of nations, not a savior of mankind, not a war hero, not even especially remarkable. Just a person who always made sure that deliveries were made, and always on time. That was his/her life, and he/she was content with it. The politicians like Kimball could "expand civilization" all they wanted, and Old World ghosts like House could have their Vegas. The Courier just wanted to do a job, get paid, and hit the nearest pub to wash the dust out of his/her throat before the next assignment came.

A short dirt nap changed that bad attitude. It made the world real. Those Deathclaws, those feral ghouls, those super mutants, those raider gangs, The Courier took on a new perspective about all of them. They weren't just obstacles to him/her, they were obstacles to everyone. And no one could take them on alone, not forever. Not even him/her. And if he/she, someone who faced the dangers of the wastes professionally and who had the skills and resources to handle their challenges could be so utterly overcome, so totally defeated by a mere trio of miscreants with horrendous fashion sense, then just how much worse were the wastes for the settler with a family in tow, not a cap to their name, and probably only enough skill to frighten geckos away? Maybe Kimball was on to something. Maybe this place, these people, really needed the NCR after all.

The Courier had a score to settle with Benny, there was no question about that. But there was more than petty revenge at stake, and besides, it wasn't even really clear where either Benny or his goons had gone that night. It wasn't even certain they'd traveled together. The Courier would just have to put that part of his/her life on the back burner and deal with what was immediately happening: the war between Legion and NCR. After dispatching a band of small time criminals threatening Goodsprings in thanks for their having saved his/her life, The Courier headed off for the Mojave Outpost to see if he/she could enlist in the NCR Army, or at least help them out in every way he/she could.

That's enough to get the gist, and I wrote this all just now. There's no second chapter at the moment, and if no one's even interested then I'll just stop right there. But if people want, I can write more. Let me know what you guys think!

[Aeken]

I'm going independent now, mainly because my character is good and - as proven - the NCR won't be able to stretch out their forces like this forever. So, by allowing House to claim New Vegas, which can then act as a buffer zone between the NCR and the Legion, allowing the NCR to focus their efforts elsewhere while Mr. House keeps the Legion across the river.

It's doubtful that NCR could get past the Rockies. The Midwest's way different from the Core Region and the Strip.

[Orham]

It's doubtful that NCR could get past the Rockies. The Midwest's way different from the Core Region and the Strip.

And besides which, I'm pretty sure that the midwestern US has already been dominated by a breakaway faction of the Brotherhood of Steel. Or is that not canon?

[Aeken]

It's doubtful that NCR could get past the Rockies. The Midwest's way different from the Core Region and the Strip.

And besides which, I'm pretty sure that the midwestern US has already been dominated by a breakaway faction of the Brotherhood of Steel. Or is that not canon?

Yes, Tactics and Brotherhood Of Steel are both canon. Black Isles' Van Buren(F3) isn't though, much to my dismay.

On another note, Caesar was killed by me today. The Wasteland has yet to notice, apparently.

[Orham]

Yes, Tactics and Brotherhood Of Steel are both canon. Black Isles' Van Buren(F3) isn't though, much to my dismay.

I don't know much about Van Buren since it didn't actually get released.

On another note, Caesar was killed by me today. The Wasteland has yet to notice, apparently.

*high five*

[Aeken]

Yes, Tactics and Brotherhood Of Steel are both canon. Black Isles' Van Buren(F3) isn't though, much to my dismay.

I don't know much about Van Buren since it didn't actually get released.

On another note, Caesar was killed by me today. The Wasteland has yet to notice, apparently.

*high five*

I really wished that it was released before Interplay became a dumbass and sold it. But Bethesda did an amazing job with Fallout 3.

*high five*

Quite easy, surprisingly. But I've barely progressed into the NCR, so there is quite a bit to go. I've also made Mr. House's Securitron army all MK II. Not sure if that will negatively effect me in the future.

[Great Empire of Gamilus]

I have just started a new character and plan to play through differently, though I am going to keep the brotherhood alive definitely. should I let the think tank live?

[Orham]

I really wished that it was released before Interplay became a dumbass and sold it. But Bethesda did an amazing job with Fallout 3.

I'd like to play a completed Van Buren one day. I think there's a beta version floating around, though.

Quite easy, surprisingly. But I've barely progressed into the NCR, so there is quite a bit to go. I've also made Mr. House's Securitron army all MK II. Not sure if that will negatively effect me in the future.

Is this your first time through New Vegas?

[Orham]

I have just started a new character and plan to play through differently, though I am going to keep the brotherhood alive definitely. should I let the think tank live?

Those two mini-factions don't seem inherently contradictory in purpose, though they might end up getting in each others' way so much that one eventually wipes out the other and takes total control of Big Mountain. It's a coin-toss.

[Aeken]

I really wished that it was released before Interplay became a dumbass and sold it. But Bethesda did an amazing job with Fallout 3.

I'd like to play a completed Van Buren one day. I think there's a beta version floating around, though.

Quite easy, surprisingly. But I've barely progressed into the NCR, so there is quite a bit to go. I've also made Mr. House's Securitron army all MK II. Not sure if that will negatively effect me in the future.

Is this your first time through New Vegas?

I've had other characters, but they've just useless to me as I use them to figure out how it all works out for me initially.

I'd like to play a completed Van Buren one day. I think there's a beta version floating around, though.

There is demo version, but unfortunately the full version has roughly 25% missing, so it's not available.

[Orham]

There is demo version, but unfortunately the full version has roughly 25% missing, so it's not available.

From what you've said, it's worth getting even though a full quarter of the game is missing.

[Castille de Italia]

There is demo version, but unfortunately the full version has roughly 25% missing, so it's not available.

From what you've said, it's worth getting even though a full quarter of the game is missing.

I'm downloading the demo now, since I happened to see this conversation at three in the morning...

[Great Empire of Gamilus]

I have just started a new character and plan to play through differently, though I am going to keep the brotherhood alive definitely. should I let the think tank live?

Those two mini-factions don't seem inherently contradictory in purpose, though they might end up getting in each others' way so much that one eventually wipes out the other and takes total control of Big Mountain. It's a coin-toss.

what?

[Orham]

what?

The Think-Tank and the BoS don't strike me as inherently contradictory in purpose. The Brotherhood likes to archive technology, the Think-Tank's inhabitants are basically talking archives (if you've a lot of patience and take the initiative). But eventually the Brotherhood and Think-Tank would be competing for control of Big Mountain, and at that point I expect them to come into conflict. Given your willingness to defend the Brotherhood, it's a coin-toss as to whether or not you ought to just get the Think-Tank out of the way or let the Brotherhood talk to them first.

In other words, do whatever you want with the Think-Tank.

[Aeken]

From what you've said, it's worth getting even though a full quarter of the game is missing.

I'm downloading the demo now, since I happened to see this conversation at three in the morning...

I believe that the female is in the nude due to glitches, so be aware.

[Yes Im Biop]

Okay I now has a stealth boy. Time to lock that old coot up in the vault