General fallout discussion thread: Eureka!

[Ceannairceach]

Am I the only one that feels the game might as well have been Fallout: NCR?

I was really disappointed with my other runthroughs because they ended with little-to-no substance. Very little in the way of Legion sidequests, yet the NCR have loads of duties for you. Unaffiliated quests don't count, since you can do them as any alignment.

Yeah, I didn't like that since if you weren't sided with the NCR, you were going to have problems.
And the worst part is, if you're trying to be neutral with both sides, you'll eventually end up having the NCR liking you with the Legion on your ass because of all the quests you can do for the NCR. Even if you complete those quests in a way that earns you less reputation over a higher pay.

There are story-based reasons for that. Really, anyone who sides with the Legion should really expect everything to go to shit for their lives west of the Dam.

[Lamplight Caverns]

Am I the only one that feels the game might as well have been Fallout: NCR?

I was really disappointed with my other runthroughs because they ended with little-to-no substance. Very little in the way of Legion sidequests, yet the NCR have loads of duties for you. Unaffiliated quests don't count, since you can do them as any alignment.

Yeah, I didn't like that since if you weren't sided with the NCR, you were going to have problems.
And the worst part is, if you're trying to be neutral with both sides, you'll eventually end up having the NCR liking you with the Legion on your ass because of all the quests you can do for the NCR. Even if you complete those quests in a way that earns you less reputation over a higher pay.

Exactly. Just walking a straight line will see to it that the NCR loves you, and the legion kills you on sight. Unless you go and shoot up McCarran, it ends the same every time. They gave the Legion /no/ effort, and dared to call it a multi-choice campaign.

Hell, if I reinstall it, sometime, I might have to do some big mod where the Legion is expanded upon. I used to do personal mods for 3, so it's not too outrageous of an effort.

[Lamplight Caverns]

There are story-based reasons for that. Really, anyone who sides with the Legion should really expect everything to go to shit for their lives west of the Dam.

But there should be more on the Legion's agenda than a handful of side quests, ESPECIALLY for the massive espionage operation they run.

[Ceannairceach]

There are story-based reasons for that. Really, anyone who sides with the Legion should really expect everything to go to shit for their lives west of the Dam.

But there should be more on the Legion's agenda than a handful of side quests, ESPECIALLY for the massive espionage operation they run.

"Massive espionage operation" in terms of gameplay and story is a few sparsely placed spies and saboteurs. They are the enemies of the west. You cannot expect a game that takes place mostly in the west, where they hate everyone and everyone hates them, to have a lot of quests related to them.

They aren't even the real alternative moral choice in the game. That's House. They are that group to appease those players who want to burn down the Mojave, but don't believe in anarchism.

[Ceannairceach]

Yeah, I didn't like that since if you weren't sided with the NCR, you were going to have problems.
And the worst part is, if you're trying to be neutral with both sides, you'll eventually end up having the NCR liking you with the Legion on your ass because of all the quests you can do for the NCR. Even if you complete those quests in a way that earns you less reputation over a higher pay.

Exactly. Just walking a straight line will see to it that the NCR loves you, and the legion kills you on sight. Unless you go and shoot up McCarran, it ends the same every time. They gave the Legion /no/ effort, and dared to call it a multi-choice campaign.

Hell, if I reinstall it, sometime, I might have to do some big mod where the Legion is expanded upon. I used to do personal mods for 3, so it's not too outrageous of an effort.

Because House and Yes-Man don't exist as choices, right?

As I said, the Legion is simply a foreign threat that is more a force of nature to combat than a serious player choice. House is the real alternative to the NCR. You want a different playthrough? Side with House.

[Lamplight Caverns]

But there should be more on the Legion's agenda than a handful of side quests, ESPECIALLY for the massive espionage operation they run.

"Massive espionage operation" in terms of gameplay and story is a few sparsely placed spies and saboteurs. They are the enemies of the west. You cannot expect a game that takes place mostly in the west, where they hate everyone and everyone hates them, to have a lot of quests related to them.

They aren't even the real alternative moral choice in the game. That's House. They are that group to appease those players who want to burn down the Mojave, but don't believe in anarchism.

"Because they put no effort in to the Legion's side, it justifies the lack of effort and completely dissolves them as a choice." Is basically what I'm gleaning from you.

I'm talking in a sense of lore. I'm talking in a sense of common sense. They need to run a lot of covert, under-handed things in order to both gain intelligence, and a bit of leverage for any upcoming invasion.

They're evil people, but the fact of the matter is that they could have had so many justifications for a player siding with them instead of "For the Evulz", and they did none of that. They just made them bad guys with nothing to do.

[Lamplight Caverns]

You want a different playthrough? Side with House.

I have, I've played out every choice in that game.

[Ceannairceach]

"Massive espionage operation" in terms of gameplay and story is a few sparsely placed spies and saboteurs. They are the enemies of the west. You cannot expect a game that takes place mostly in the west, where they hate everyone and everyone hates them, to have a lot of quests related to them.

They aren't even the real alternative moral choice in the game. That's House. They are that group to appease those players who want to burn down the Mojave, but don't believe in anarchism.

"Because they put no effort in to the Legion's side, it justifies the lack of effort and completely dissolves them as a choice." Is basically what I'm gleaning from you.

I'm talking in a sense of lore. I'm talking in a sense of common sense. They need to run a lot of covert, under-handed things in order to both gain intelligence, and a bit of leverage for any upcoming invasion.

They're evil people, but the fact of the matter is that they could have had so many justifications for a player siding with them instead of "For the Evulz", and they did none of that. They just made them bad guys with nothing to do.

Your sense of lore is about as good as your sense of what I'm talking about. They have an extensive espionage system, sure; But I'd wager that most of them extend farther into California, since the NCR doesn't only exist in the Mojave. Not to mention the fact that the Legion ISN'T covert, and in fact the majority of the Legion detests the covert actions of Vulpes and his faction, I'm not surprised the "glorious" espionage system of the Legion is lacking.

No, they couldn't. The Legion is a bunch of slaving buffoons who will ruin the world should they come to power. End of story. Anyone who sides with them are sealing the fate of the Mojave in destruction. All of the good "evil" reasons are already taken by House or a evil Courier in the independent ending. The Legion solely exist as a fourth choice to add a more destructively authoritarian element to the game, to balance out House's benevolence.

[Ceannairceach]

You want a different playthrough? Side with House.

I have, I've played out every choice in that game.

Then don't fucking complain, as you should know that House is the real enemy of the NCR, not the Legion. The Legion are mosquitoes compared to the threat that House poses.

[Lamplight Caverns]

Your sense of lore is about as good as your sense of what I'm talking about.

Off to a roarin' start, there.

They have an extensive espionage system, sure; But I'd wager that most of them extend farther into California, since the NCR doesn't only exist in the Mojave.

Of course, but they still have people in the Mojave, good people, at that.

Not to mention the fact that the Legion ISN'T covert, and in fact the majority of the Legion detests the covert actions of Vulpes and his faction, I'm not surprised the "glorious" espionage system of the Legion is lacking.

That's really up to perspective. I consider a man in deep cover with the NCR, and a couple who could roam around and pull all sorts of strings to be fairly good. Though, again, with any expansion, I'm sure they'd slap a few more in there. The point I'm trying to make about the espionage system is that they /could/ enlist the Courier.

No, they couldn't. The Legion is a bunch of slaving buffoons who will ruin the world should they come to power. End of story.

Of course! That's very much a fact. But they have to have some sort of spiel to enlist a courier with, not just "DUR BAD GUYS." How about running a line about 'restarting civilization' or criticizing the NCR? Caesar isn't a dumbass, he's evil, but he's not stupid. I'm sure he could manipulate just fine in a believable manner.

Anyone who sides with them are sealing the fate of the Mojave in destruction. All of the good "evil" reasons are already taken by House or a evil Courier in the independent ending. The Legion solely exist as a fourth choice to add a more destructively authoritarian element to the game, to balance out House's benevolence.

And I'm saying they could have made it something more, added a reason rather than 'For the Evulz'.

[Lamplight Caverns]

I have, I've played out every choice in that game.

Then don't fucking complain, as you should know that House is the real enemy of the NCR, not the Legion. The Legion are mosquitoes compared to the threat that House poses.

The army that he can't even activate on his own? Let's remove the courier and let's say he/she died with the chip and rotted somewhere. We're down to a man on life support versus a massive army of snarling red-shirts, with a subterfuge network underneath it.

Don't need to get pissy at me, by the way.

[Imperial isa]

Any one use the Classic Fallout Weapons - New Vegas mod ?

[Lamplight Caverns]

Any one use the Classic Fallout Weapons - New Vegas mod ?

Yeah, I have. It's pretty damn good.

[Transnapastain]

Please tell me you all have been paying attention

I would also suggest, and request feedback, on this being a more general Fallout thread?

1 day, 42 minutes and 28 seconds at time of post but also reportedly ticking down to the 11th of December.

[Imperial isa]

You want a different playthrough? Side with House.

I have, I've played out every choice in that game.

I was thinking of using it but with my game acting up for no reason, I'll have to hold on using it

[Morrdh]

Please tell me you all have been paying attention

I would also suggest, and request feedback, on this being a more general Fallout thread?

1 day, 42 minutes and 28 seconds at time of post but also reportedly ticking down to the 11th of December.

Boston seems to be fairly notable, though could just be some hoaxer going with the Boston rumour from a few months back.

[Coldhall]

Why did I not find this thread sooner!!!

[Orham]

Please tell me you all have been paying attention

After the whole Boston rumor didn't pan out and turned out to be a hoax, I sort of stopped paying attention and started waiting for something to just hit the shelves whenever. With that in mind, I'm not sure if Bethesda's declination to comment is simply them trying to keep their hands close to their chests until the reveal, or if it's just them taking advantage of another hoax to gather up a bit more attention while it's still a plausible hoax. We'll just have to see.

I would also suggest, and request feedback, on this being a more general Fallout thread?

I vote aye.

Why did I not find this thread sooner!!!

...cake. The answer is cake.

[Transnapastain]

Please tell me you all have been paying attention

After the whole Boston rumor didn't pan out and turned out to be a hoax, I sort of stopped paying attention and started waiting for something to just hit the shelves whenever. With that in mind, I'm not sure if Bethesda's declination to comment is simply them trying to keep their hands close to their chests until the reveal, or if it's just them taking advantage of another hoax to gather up a bit more attention while it's still a plausible hoax. We'll just have to see.

Your skepticism is shared by many, and is probably warranted.

[Orham]

Your skepticism is shared by many, and is probably warranted.

Regardless, thanks for keeping us all posted.

[Transnapastain]

One of the messages contains a possible continuity error

“NCRA UNIT BST 314 7 EMRG MSG NEW YORK STAGE 7 WASHINGTON STAGE 7 LOS ANGELES STAGE 7 AUSTIN STAGE 7 CHICAGO STAGE 7 NEW ORLEAN STAGE 7 LAS VEGAS UNKNOWN MIAMI STAGE 7 DALLAS STAGE 7 DENVER STAGE 7 SAN DIEGO STAGE 7 SAN FRANCISCO STAGE 7 BOSTO”

San Francisco was never "confirmed" hit, as far as I can recall.

Now, I haven't played Fo2 in a LONG time, but, I don't recall that being mentioned. Just the Shi talking about the Chinese submarine running around and them living here.

Fallout wiki says

It was also evidently hit hard during the Great War, as much of the city is a ruin.

but 200 years of neglect would cause the city to be in ruins, too.

Not 100% sure, obviously, but, it seems unlikely that the city would have appeared in, and been inhabited, in Fallout 2 had it been struck directly during the attacks.

[New Frenco Empire]

One of the messages contains a possible continuity error

“NCRA UNIT BST 314 7 EMRG MSG NEW YORK STAGE 7 WASHINGTON STAGE 7 LOS ANGELES STAGE 7 AUSTIN STAGE 7 CHICAGO STAGE 7 NEW ORLEAN STAGE 7 LAS VEGAS UNKNOWN MIAMI STAGE 7 DALLAS STAGE 7 DENVER STAGE 7 SAN DIEGO STAGE 7 SAN FRANCISCO STAGE 7 BOSTO”

San Francisco was never "confirmed" hit, as far as I can recall.

Now, I haven't played Fo2 in a LONG time, but, I don't recall that being mentioned. Just the Shi talking about the Chinese submarine running around and them living here.

Fallout wiki says

It was also evidently hit hard during the Great War, as much of the city is a ruin.

but 200 years of neglect would cause the city to be in ruins, too.

Not 100% sure, obviously, but, it seems unlikely that the city would have appeared in, and been inhabited, in Fallout 2 had it been struck directly during the attacks.

From the Fallout 2 strategy guide...

"San Fransisco was hit hard by nukes, but it didn't kill the city. Instead it just mutated it into something a bit weirder."

[The Treorai]

One of the messages contains a possible continuity error

“NCRA UNIT BST 314 7 EMRG MSG NEW YORK STAGE 7 WASHINGTON STAGE 7 LOS ANGELES STAGE 7 AUSTIN STAGE 7 CHICAGO STAGE 7 NEW ORLEAN STAGE 7 LAS VEGAS UNKNOWN MIAMI STAGE 7 DALLAS STAGE 7 DENVER STAGE 7 SAN DIEGO STAGE 7 SAN FRANCISCO STAGE 7 BOSTO”

San Francisco was never "confirmed" hit, as far as I can recall.

Now, I haven't played Fo2 in a LONG time, but, I don't recall that being mentioned. Just the Shi talking about the Chinese submarine running around and them living here.

Fallout wiki says

It was also evidently hit hard during the Great War, as much of the city is a ruin.

but 200 years of neglect would cause the city to be in ruins, too.

Not 100% sure, obviously, but, it seems unlikely that the city would have appeared in, and been inhabited, in Fallout 2 had it been struck directly during the attacks.

The LA Boneyard was hit directly, yet it is still inhabited. DC was hit directly multiple times, as was Chicago (if you believe the spin-offs). Besides: continuity errors are common place in fallout lore. There has yet to be a conclusive bit of evidence to suggest when the bombs dropped.

I'm not saying it's real, but it seems fairly creditable.

[New Frenco Empire]

I'm not saying it's real, but it seems fairly creditable.

Pretty much this.

We can't prove it's legit, but if it was fake, way too much effort was put into it whenever there are easier, much more simple ways of trolling with it.

[Transnapastain]

One of the messages contains a possible continuity error



San Francisco was never "confirmed" hit, as far as I can recall.

Now, I haven't played Fo2 in a LONG time, but, I don't recall that being mentioned. Just the Shi talking about the Chinese submarine running around and them living here.

Fallout wiki says


but 200 years of neglect would cause the city to be in ruins, too.

Not 100% sure, obviously, but, it seems unlikely that the city would have appeared in, and been inhabited, in Fallout 2 had it been struck directly during the attacks.

The LA Boneyard was hit directly, yet it is still inhabited. DC was hit directly multiple times, as was Chicago (if you believe the spin-offs). Besides: continuity errors are common place in fallout lore. There has yet to be a conclusive bit of evidence to suggest when the bombs dropped.

I'm not saying it's real, but it seems fairly creditable.

Thats all totally fair points. DC being the most glaring error in my logic.

I guess, from my memories of Fallout 2, San Francisco didn't "feel" like it had been nuked....that feeling is...not really supported by evidence, I admit.

One of the messages contains a possible continuity error



San Francisco was never "confirmed" hit, as far as I can recall.

Now, I haven't played Fo2 in a LONG time, but, I don't recall that being mentioned. Just the Shi talking about the Chinese submarine running around and them living here.

Fallout wiki says


but 200 years of neglect would cause the city to be in ruins, too.

Not 100% sure, obviously, but, it seems unlikely that the city would have appeared in, and been inhabited, in Fallout 2 had it been struck directly during the attacks.

From the Fallout 2 strategy guide...

"San Fransisco was hit hard by nukes, but it didn't kill the city. Instead it just mutated it into something a bit weirder."

Who published that guide, do you know?

As to if its real or not, I guess we'll see in... 15h 45m 52s from time of posting.