NationStates

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:46 pm**

The Nuclear Fist wrote:The individual forces of Chaos hate each other.

Different cults and warbands hate each other, but not Chaos Space Marines and cultist specifically.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:47 pm**

North Calaveras wrote:well i know in space marines for xbox you regularly see daemons working with rogue guardsmen and chaos space marines.

They get their own codex because the armies function very much differently. Sure, sometimes you see them working together (just like loyal Guardsmen and Marines), but they more often than not work separately, playing to their individual advantages.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:48 pm**

The Nuclear Fist wrote:
North Calaveras wrote:well i know in space marines for xbox you regularly see daemons working with rogue guardsmen and chaos space marines.

They get their own codex because the armies function very much differently. Sure, sometimes you see them working together (just like loyal Guardsmen and Marines), but they more often than not work separately, playing to their individual advantages.

okay well they should still have an official codex for lost and damned

I think it's a waste of money to make codexs for space wolves etc etc which are essentially just space marines with a twist.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:48 pm**

Gauthier wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:Oh they can. It's just so perilous that it probably isn't worth it.

Or a few Adepts go heretical and start picking Eldar brains to figure out how the Webway works.

And hope they don't end up like that one poor inquisitor who is now trapped within it for eternity.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:55 pm**

Neither Star Wars nor Halo adorn their soldiers with nearly enough skulls, pauldrons or skull pauldrons to compete with 40k.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:10 pm**

Wallonochia wrote:Neither Star Wars nor Halo adorn their soldiers with nearly enough skulls, pauldrons or skull pauldrons to compete with 40k.

I don't think SW troops are allowed trophies of any sort, except for the battle damage on their armor.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:12 pm**

Arkotania wrote:
Wallonochia wrote:Neither Star Wars nor Halo adorn their soldiers with nearly enough skulls, pauldrons or skull pauldrons to compete with 40k.

I don't think SW troops are allowed trophies of any sort, except for the battle damage on their armor.

They get pretty, different colored stripes to indicate rank and decorations.

At least, the Grand Army of the Republic did.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:21 pm**

Lancearc wrote:
Arkotania wrote:
I don't think SW troops are allowed trophies of any sort, except for the battle damage on their armor.

They get pretty, different colored stripes to indicate rank and decorations.

At least, the Grand Army of the Republic did.

Yeah, they had colors for identifying their ranks. The commandos got to have more coloring and decorations to distinguish them from standard Clone Troopers. (The Old Republic's infantry uniform was horrendous though).

I remember watching a part where a clone trooper is given trouble for collecting droid fingers and making a necklace of it.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:25 pm**

Wallonochia wrote:Neither Star Wars nor Halo adorn their soldiers with nearly enough skulls, pauldrons or skull pauldrons to compete with 40k.

SW soldiers are not allowed things like that. Halo soldiers view things like that as stupid adornments that will just attract too much attention to themselves, or even worse, add more mass to their armor in a way that doesn't add anymore protection. Especially all of those horribly balanced Primarch armors.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:28 pm**

Kreanoltha wrote:
Wallonochia wrote:Neither Star Wars nor Halo adorn their soldiers with nearly enough skulls, pauldrons or skull pauldrons to compete with 40k.

SW soldiers are not allowed things like that. Halo soldiers view things like that as stupid adornments that will just attract too much attention to themselves, or even worse, add more mass to their armor in a way that doesn't add anymore protection. Especially all of those horribly balanced Primarch armors.

Don't they both basically prefer having their armor reflect the wear of warfare as a sign? (I know new recruit Clone Troopers are nicknamed Shinies because they haven't necessarily seen combat, hence a shiny armor)

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:29 pm**

North Calaveras wrote:
Bone Fort wrote:
You mean the Lost and the Damned?

Yeah but Chaos shouldn't be seperated since chaos space marines are very often mixed with daemons and normal human heretics

i can understand the seperation between guard and loyal space marines, but with Chaos there should be no separation.

I didn't think it was separated as such. Been a long time since I looked into it, but you can have your Chaos Space Marines with daemons mixed in (or led by princes etc) or you can field an entire army of daemons, so those are two fairly different armies hence the two codexes (Lost and Damned are just fodder tagging along, with those respective armies).

In fluff/fiction/setting terms they are still very much integrated and under the Chaos umbrella.

Gauthier wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:Eh, as bad as they've been about stasis, at least Games Failshop recognizes that something has to give. Hence, in the 6th edition rulebook, the Golden Throne has already started to fail, and the technology and knowledge for its construction and repair have long since been lost. So they will do something eventually, if only to sell us a new line of models.

Or an excuse to break up the Imperial Monopoly and introduce new human factions.

Would be interesting, it could be like feudal city states - only planets. Each with distinct identies and strengths. Bit like the particular Craftworlds.

Onekawa-Nukanor wrote:
Kreanoltha wrote:
That and he is currently being fed thousands of weaker Psykers a day to make sure his soul stays alive. They also need the Throne to power the Beacon on Holy Terra. Oh, and the Throne is breaking down.

Yes it has gone down hill. That's the point of WH40K. Everything has gone down hill. Everything. They don't even know how to build their better ships anymore. Hell, even the other species have gone down hill.

I would have thought that would at least have life support machines. Sure, everything else is in a terrible way, but man its really bad if they can't even match earth in medical technology 39,000 years or so in the future.

It does have life support. And all sorts of future tech medical technology. All those augmentations and cybernetic replacements etc Space Marines practically being exceptional, but baseline, humans boosted to super human levels by the powers of science (gene therapy, biological augmentation etc). And space marine dreadnaughts are effectively some near dead war hero entombed in a fighting life support machine. The Golden Throne is a bit of future tech built for something else but put into service in addition to what it was built for to keep the Emperor from dying, which it has done that for thousands of years.

Problem being the Imperium of today is run on the technological glory of it's bygone eras. They aren't innovating or for the most part really understanding how anything works. They know how to keep things running (like hundreds/thousand year old weapons, armour, ships) and build by rote from blueprints and schematics thousands of years old.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:29 pm**

Bone Fort wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:Well, it's worth noting that in the Old Lore, which has been reshrouded in myth by Games Failshop, the Emperor was the psychic gestalt of all human psykers in the prehistoric era, who dealt with the growing powers in the warp that were devouring their souls upon death by deciding to commit suicide and all be reincarnated at once.

While Chaos is stronger now than before, so is the Emperor. So it's conceivable that he'll just rush into the Immaterium, box them around the ears, and then be reincarnated. Or he could become a new Chaos God, and swallow the heart of the Imperium in a new Eye of Terror.

I read one fanficiton/theory about that, a rather good one, were he becomes a God of Order... an evil god of Orwellian type order, that is. It was actually quite good.

Was it that Warhammer 50k thing?

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:29 pm**

WH40K is so diverse and totally over the top, it's just not possible for the forces of the other scifi universes to compete. Things could be happily complicated by adding the BattleTech universe to the list, but maybe that's not a good idea.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:31 pm**

Arkotania wrote:
Kreanoltha wrote:
SW soldiers are not allowed things like that. Halo soldiers view things like that as stupid adornments that will just attract too much attention to themselves, or even worse, add more mass to their armor in a way that doesn't add anymore protection. Especially all of those horribly balanced Primarch armors.

Don't they both basically prefer having their armor reflect the wear of warfare as a sign? (I know new recruit Clone Troopers are nicknamed Shinies because they haven't necessarily seen combat, hence a shiny armor)

I do seem to recall a few Clone Troopers (whether in a novel or comic, I don't remember) commenting on a comrade's army still having an 'orange dusting' to it. (I imagine they were referring to dust from Geonosis.)

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:31 pm**

Hurdegaryp wrote:WH40K is so diverse and totally over the top, it's just not possible for the forces of the other scifi universes to compete. Things could be happily complicated by adding the BattleTech universe to the list, but maybe that's not a good idea.

Marvel or DC probably could, but they're not sci-fi.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:31 pm**

If the 40k faction in use is the post heresy Imperium then this thread needs to end because the Imperium can and would win. since they hold most of the advantages in space and on the ground.
Empire takes over a couple worlds (let's say 10) PDF put up a good fight but are finally subdued. The imperium of man has lost the battle. about 6 months to about 2 years latter Templars/other chapters show up along with several (several meaning about 6 or more) imperial guard regiments ranging from simple infantry to super heavy tank regiments and maybe the brotherhood of mars sends some help like anykind of titan.
in the next stage of the empire's invasion they get stomped by the massive use of combined arms that the imperial guard is known for. the ground war would be a beautiful spectical of sheer unadulterated violance! space marines would waid through plattons of Empire Storm troopers, while imperial storm troopers knock out CIC units and any heavy support the empire has, and the imperial guard crush what ever is left under the massive treads of their tanks and the hobnails of their boots.
its fairly simple. halo and SW would be able to gain some ground and defeat PDF troops on those worlds that is certin. then comes the holy shit storm that is the Imperial departmento miunitorum when its act is in gear. the imperium would certanly lose the battle but the war would be won by the imperium on several factors.

#1 if the force is an extension of the warp. then jedi would have to suffer the parals of the warp that everyone else does such as deamons. with that Grey Knights (if they show up) would be able to stomp such whitchery that and space marine libarians would crubstom jedi

#2 the Imperial fleet. in the imperium a fleet numbers in the hundreds and in some cases the thousands of warships. the core of this fleet being capital ships such as battal barges, battleships, deadnaughts and so on. each of these capital ships could if the need arose destroy an entire planet.

#3 the imperial Guard. every infantry regiment contains at least 7000 guardsmen depending on the world they could wear flak or Carapace armor. each tank regiment has a thousand tanks to through into the fight ranging from the standered lemen russ to the lemen russ executioner plasma tank. each arttilery regiment has at least 500 guns ranging from earth-shacker cannons and heavy mortars to super heavy siege guns. the super heavy tank regiments have a minimum of 50 baneblades of any make ranging from the basic 11 barrels of hell to titan killers and siege machines.

#4 the Space marines. depending on who shows up is how bad it is (its bad enough that space marines show up at all against Empire storm troopers). if the blood angels or one of their succesor chapters shows up then its a close quarters melee. if a crusade of the Black Templars shows up then their is no saving the empire or halo since a crusade numbers over 2000 space marines and their neophyts.

#5 the Imperium can sestain a war almost indefinaly or at least till something more dangeres comes along such as nids or orks

#6 necrons. the worlds you may be fighting on may be necron tomb worlds (i mean the cool ones that killed everything. before ward got to them. as i do not accept the current tomb kings in space shit)

#7 Power-weapons. if the imperium is being run by codex and not fluff then almost every squad leader can take a power weapon

the question is how much would the Empire be willing to lose, and how much would the UNSC be willing to lose to the Imperium. the battle could turn into a grinding war of attrition and the imperium is more then equiped for such a war (DEATH KORPS OF KREIGE) if both sides continued to put fresh units into the fight. with that kind of war the imperium would be able to win by shee numbers of troops (Guardsmen do great when charging into close combat).
its really apples and orenges and peachs. they all have strengths in their own universe. put them in someone elses universe and halo and SW would fall apart.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:32 pm**

Hurdegaryp wrote:WH40K is so diverse and totally over the top, it's just not possible for the forces of the other scifi universes to compete. Things could be happily complicated by adding the BattleTech universe to the list, but maybe that's not a good idea.

Anyone notice that the symbol of the Galactic Republic is 8 pointed, similar to the the 8 pointed symbol of chaos in 40k?

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:33 pm**

What's general consensus now?

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:36 pm**

Arkotania wrote:
Kreanoltha wrote:
SW soldiers are not allowed things like that. Halo soldiers view things like that as stupid adornments that will just attract too much attention to themselves, or even worse, add more mass to their armor in a way that doesn't add anymore protection. Especially all of those horribly balanced Primarch armors.

Don't they both basically prefer having their armor reflect the wear of warfare as a sign? (I know new recruit Clone Troopers are nicknamed Shinies because they haven't necessarily seen combat, hence a shiny armor)

I think so. When the Master Chief was upgraded to the Mk. V and Mk. VI armor he was shocked by how clean and shiny it was. By the time of the Fall of Reach, most Mk. IV armor was a dark olive drab color covered in pits, scratches, and carbonization from grazes from decades of combat. They would use magnetic attachments for their pins and ribbons when they had to display all of their honors. They preferred to just project their most relevant commendations on their HUDs.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:36 pm**

Arkania 5 wrote:What's general consensus now?

Well the Poll is more about which series you personally like rather than which one you believe would win.

But from what I've been able to follow up, 40k wins with numbers while SW wins with technology. Of course we have a bunch of other stuff in between(I believe I saw the name Matt Ward appear a couple of times)

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:37 pm**

Arkania 5 wrote:What's general consensus now?

I think it's that the WH40K setting will nom the SW setting.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:37 pm**

In IMPS the relentless they don't have individualized armor but they did paint some of their ships and vehicles. I liked the naked women painted on the side of the AT-AT head. (Yes I know IMPS is not really cannon but I love it)

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:38 pm**

Arkotania wrote:Matt Ward

No.

Nononononononononono

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:40 pm**

Arkania 5 wrote:
Arkotania wrote:Matt Ward

No.

Nononononononononono

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:41 pm**

NationStates

The Star Wars vs. WH40K Debate