The Star Wars vs. WH40K Debate

[The Grand Imperium of Man]

This is what was pretty much concluded. The Galactic Empire wouldn't have to directly engage the majority of the Imperium (they would NEVER engage on the ground, it'd be tactical suicide without an entirely automated army to distract them. Fleshy soldiers would be simply wasted) and could take over a massive amount of rim planets before the Imperium could even learn of it or respond- then dissolve into the void of space when Imperium fleets showed up to fight the Tau. The only faction that could actually go blow to blow with them and win is the Necrons. And they're kinda asleep.
(Not to mention I'd doubt they'd want to engage the Necrons. What' I'd find amusing if there was tech sharing between the Empire and one of the sentient Necron Lords, which isn't too unlikely.)

You didn't mention the Massive beat down of the Orks Or Nids though!

Honestly glassing the Orks from World to World and obliteraitng the Nids from Existance via pulling them into ambushes and killzones via their usage of gravity which can be interfered with by Imperial techology and peppering them with designer viruses would be an amusing topic as well.

Besides it beats the whole stale Imperium vs Empire Debate which has basically raged since page 4.

Dude really

[Achren]

This may or may not have been addressed earlier, but in terms of tactical & strategic advantage, if the forces of SW could get the Jedi to act as counsellors & wartime advisors, then they'd have the powers of prescience on their side (i.e. when Obi-Wan senses disturbances in the force from light years away), putting them one step ahead of their opponents in terms of intelligence and making assassinations and spying difficult. While Psykers could probably do so better (because unless you're counting force Unleashed which is wildly inconsistent with the rest of the franchise in terms of power levels then Psykers generally have more raw power than Jedi), if they were to keep it up in order to outguess the High Council, you'd start seeing a lot of head-explosions and demonic possessions at HQ.

OTOH, the 40K-verse has been in a state of total war for thousands of years, and so is probably one of the more battle-hardened universes out there, especially considering the long periods of peace in SW in between each war.

However, I believe the general consensus is that only someone of exceptional power, i.e. a librarian, would stand much of a chance against even a novice Jedi. And since there are many more Jedi than there are great heroes, SW has the advantage on that front.

It would be epic, it would make a smashing film, but IMHO in the end it would go to SW, though by no means easily.

[The Zeonic States]

Hey, it might not hurt that bad but a blaster round through the chest will be crippling. And have you never heard of artillery? Spess Marines are so fucking big they can't take advantage of any sort of cover, so when a creeping barrage of artillery forces them into a tight packed space all you need to do is gun them down. Or bring up some tank.

Ooooo Artillery.... Don't get me started with the Imperial Guard Artillery...Oh boy.

Actually that is a misconception of Space Marines not taking cover. They actually do. And before you are able to fire your Artillery - They follow a BOOK OF LEASH (Codex)

Which pretty much every Space Marine learns every tactic to counter existing enemy tactics.

"Enemy Targeting you Captain?"

"Aye with a bitch cannon..."

"Proceed Codex Astartes 'Piss Snake' Maneuver"

"Splitting and spreading Squads 50 Meters apart. Contacted Air support to silence the cannons."

Are you aware of what the Empire uses for artillery? Assuming they don't decide to call down orbital strikes?

[Hedron]

You mean the highly mechanized Galactic Empire army that uses tank with plasma shielding that laughs at projectiles and energy weapons? If so yes, those would shred SPEESSS MEHREENS.

Although again, Titans and ridiculous Guardsmen artillery would make ground battles tactical suicide. Boarding actions would be better.

Oh god... Boarding Actions...

Space Marines love CQC man.... Shred your crew easily....

[Hedron]

Ooooo Artillery.... Don't get me started with the Imperial Guard Artillery...Oh boy.

Actually that is a misconception of Space Marines not taking cover. They actually do. And before you are able to fire your Artillery - They follow a BOOK OF LEASH (Codex)

Which pretty much every Space Marine learns every tactic to counter existing enemy tactics.

"Enemy Targeting you Captain?"

"Aye with a bitch cannon..."

"Proceed Codex Astartes 'Piss Snake' Maneuver"

"Splitting and spreading Squads 50 Meters apart. Contacted Air support to silence the cannons."

Are you aware of what the Empire uses for artillery? Assuming they don't decide to call down orbital strikes?

A single Strike Cruiser can halt an entire Rebellion on a Planet.

A Space Marine Battle barge can deploy an entire Space Marine Company of 3 immediately.

A Battle Barge has god like Orbital Strikes as well. Along being heavily armored.

[The Grand Imperium of Man]

Guard beats any body in a artillery strike. I wish I could show you my codex.

[The Shadowed Remains]

the name is Space Marines don't you think they will be good in space?

Yeah what about grey knights

[The Zeonic States]

This may or may not have been addressed earlier, but in terms of tactical & strategic advantage, if the forces of SW could get the Jedi to act as counsellors & wartime advisors, then they'd have the powers of prescience on their side (i.e. when Obi-Wan senses disturbances in the force from light years away), putting them one step ahead of their opponents in terms of intelligence and making assassinations and spying difficult. While Psykers could probably do so better (because unless you're counting force Unleashed which is wildly inconsistent with the rest of the franchise in terms of power levels then Psykers generally have more raw power than Jedi), if they were to keep it up in order to outguess the High Council, you'd start seeing a lot of head-explosions and demonic possessions at HQ.

OTOH, the 40K-verse has been in a state of total war for thousands of years, and so is probably one of the more battle-hardened universes out there, especially considering the long periods of peace in SW in between each war.

However, I believe the general consensus is that only someone of exceptional power, i.e. a librarian, would stand much of a chance against even a novice Jedi. And since there are many more Jedi than there are great heroes, SW has the advantage on that front.

It would be epic, it would make a smashing film, but IMHO in the end it would go to SW, though by no means easily.

Veteran warriors? The Empire Employ's One race over all others when it comes to such things.

The one Mercenary Band it actually consults with on a fairly regular basis and offers the respect its people demand.

The Mandolorians.

:/ You think veteran stormtrooper legions are bad?

Wait until those boys hit dirt.

[AETEN II]

You mean the highly mechanized Galactic Empire army that uses tank with plasma shielding that laughs at projectiles and energy weapons? If so yes, those would shred SPEESSS MEHREENS.

Although again, Titans and ridiculous Guardsmen artillery would make ground battles tactical suicide. Boarding actions would be better.

Alright, Base Delta Zero any fucking planet that does not immediately surrender. The Empire's established superiority in space would make any ground advantage moot. Hell, the Eclipse has a crust-cracking laser, and it's a Star Destroyer.

Eclipse Classes don't even start it. They modified an Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer and put a DEATH STAR SUPERLASER ON IT. And it fucking killed ginormous Capital Ships.

Really, I'd hand Star Wars the advantage in Space against the Imperium simply for the crazies at Kuat Drives, who seem to have a phallic compensation issue.

Kuat Drives: Building bigger, better, faster, stronger, bitchslaps.

But yes, the nids. THE NIDS. Let's rip them a new one shall we?

[Hedron]

the name is Space Marines don't you think they will be good in space?

I dunno...



They are fighting without their helmet... I mean...wut?

[The Zeonic States]

Are you aware of what the Empire uses for artillery? Assuming they don't decide to call down orbital strikes?

A single Strike Cruiser can halt an entire Rebellion on a Planet.

A Space Marine Battle barge can deploy an entire Space Marine Company of 3 immediately.

A Battle Barge has god like Orbital Strikes as well. Along being heavily armored.

Concussion missile launchers, Portable Turoblaser batteries, Porton Torpedo Launchers; You would have enough Imperial fire coming from just THESE devices to level entire Armored battlions one salvo at a time.

Not counting the Imperial collection of flying artillery, Interceptors, Fighters, Tanks, Flying fortresses and Personal carriers you would also be dealing with on a ground based invasion.

And you would pit Imperium vessels against Imperial? I wish those humans the best because they are going to die.

[Strykla]

Are you aware of what the Empire uses for artillery? Assuming they don't decide to call down orbital strikes?

A single Strike Cruiser can halt an entire Rebellion on a Planet.

A Space Marine Battle barge can deploy an entire Space Marine Company of 3 immediately.

A Battle Barge has god like Orbital Strikes as well. Along being heavily armored.

Your battle barge, the best ship you have to offer, is ten kilometers. The Eclipse is nearly twice that. Sure, Star Destroyers are only just under a kilometer, but there are literally hundreds of them.

Plus the Basilisk artillery has a range of fifteen kilometers; your average turbolaser can go much farther.

[The Grand Imperium of Man]

A single Strike Cruiser can halt an entire Rebellion on a Planet.

A Space Marine Battle barge can deploy an entire Space Marine Company of 3 immediately.

A Battle Barge has god like Orbital Strikes as well. Along being heavily armored.

Concussion missile launchers, Portable Turoblaser batteries, Porton Torpedo Launchers; You would have enough Imperial fire coming from just THESE devices to level entire Armored battlions one salvo at a time.

Not counting the Imperial collection of flying artillery, Interceptors, Fighters, Tanks, Flying fortresses and Personal carriers you would also be dealing with on a ground based invasion.

And you would pit Imperium vessels against Imperial? I wish those humans the best because they are going to die.

starhawks would CREAM TIEs x-wings can take them out all the time

[The Zeonic States]

Alright, Base Delta Zero any fucking planet that does not immediately surrender. The Empire's established superiority in space would make any ground advantage moot. Hell, the Eclipse has a crust-cracking laser, and it's a Star Destroyer.

Eclipse Classes don't even start it. They modified an Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer and put a DEATH STAR SUPERLASER ON IT. And it fucking killed ginormous Capital Ships.

Really, I'd hand Star Wars the advantage in Space against the Imperium simply for the crazies at Kuat Drives, who seem to have a phallic compensation issue.

Kuat Drives: Building bigger, better, faster, stronger, bitchslaps.

But yes, the nids. THE NIDS. Let's rip them a new one shall we?

Kaut has been around since Dirt was first tossed into the sky though atten their faculities ecompass an entire Planet.

You think they wouldn't get tired of building pleasure ships? Fighters and escort crusiers?

I don't blame them for creating the behomoths of legend that make the largest earth ships look like patrol pt boats.

[Hedron]

A single Strike Cruiser can halt an entire Rebellion on a Planet.

A Space Marine Battle barge can deploy an entire Space Marine Company of 3 immediately.

A Battle Barge has god like Orbital Strikes as well. Along being heavily armored.

Concussion missile launchers, Portable Turoblaser batteries, Porton Torpedo Launchers; You would have enough Imperial fire coming from just THESE devices to level entire Armored battlions one salvo at a time.

Not counting the Imperial collection of flying artillery, Interceptors, Fighters, Tanks, Flying fortresses and Personal carriers you would also be dealing with on a ground based invasion.

And you would pit Imperium vessels against Imperial? I wish those humans the best because they are going to die.

Common I mean the best I can do is look logically on Imperial Weaponry and Star Wars Weaponry.

Don't just assume that a normal battle barge will be unleashing a slingshot of a pencil towards your estrogen packed fantasy. They would be doing the same as well. They also do have almost uncountable number of anti-defensive systems all manned by computers. It would be suicidal to attempt to attack a Battle Barge. That's why some Chapters only have ONE because of how strong and top of the line they are.

I am also not counting the 40k Collection of Artillery - Tanks - Men - Aircrafts - Explosives - Suicidal Terrorists - Dwarfs - Smelly snipers - Centaurs - Giants. I mean I also have all these in my arsenal.

[The Zeonic States]

Concussion missile launchers, Portable Turoblaser batteries, Porton Torpedo Launchers; You would have enough Imperial fire coming from just THESE devices to level entire Armored battlions one salvo at a time.

Not counting the Imperial collection of flying artillery, Interceptors, Fighters, Tanks, Flying fortresses and Personal carriers you would also be dealing with on a ground based invasion.

And you would pit Imperium vessels against Imperial? I wish those humans the best because they are going to die.

starhawks would CREAM TIEs x-wings can take them out all the time

Already covered this a few pages back.

Imperial pilots would have a field day blowing imperium vessels out of the skies Kilometers off due to their massive size.

[The Grand Imperium of Man]

Nope

[The Grand Imperium of Man]

Taco

[Strykla]

Taco

So you have resorted to spamming?

[The Zeonic States]

Concussion missile launchers, Portable Turoblaser batteries, Porton Torpedo Launchers; You would have enough Imperial fire coming from just THESE devices to level entire Armored battlions one salvo at a time.

Not counting the Imperial collection of flying artillery, Interceptors, Fighters, Tanks, Flying fortresses and Personal carriers you would also be dealing with on a ground based invasion.

And you would pit Imperium vessels against Imperial? I wish those humans the best because they are going to die.

Common I mean the best I can do is look logically on Imperial Weaponry and Star Wars Weaponry.

Don't just assume that a normal battle barge will be unleashing a slingshot of a pencil towards your estrogen packed fantasy. They would be doing the same as well. They also do have almost uncountable number of anti-defensive systems all manned by computers. It would be suicidal to attempt to attack a Battle Barge. That's why some Chapters only have ONE because of how strong and top of the line they are.

I am also not counting the 40k Collection of Artillery - Tanks - Men - Aircrafts - Explosives - Suicidal Terrorists - Dwarfs - Smelly snipers - Centaurs - Giants. I mean I also have all these in my arsenal.

Aircraft were debunked, Armor could be penetrated and removed by concussion missiles that is what they are designed for after all, Tanks? The Empire has those as well, Explosives? The Standard Imperial thermal detonator is probably superior to whatever the Imperium can field. Dwarves? Really? Sending midgets into battle eh? Good Luck, Snipers? Empire has those as well with a better gun even!

The rest of those things out of myth probably wouldn't make much a diffrence.

[Hedron]

starhawks would CREAM TIEs x-wings can take them out all the time

Already covered this a few pages back.

Imperial pilots would have a field day blowing imperium vessels out of the skies Kilometers off due to their massive size.

Void Shields and Plus Massive Size = A lot of weapons. They won't even get close until their defenses has either run out of ammo. Or just overwhelmed by enemy forces which is highly unlikely.

[Achren]

This may or may not have been addressed earlier, but in terms of tactical & strategic advantage, if the forces of SW could get the Jedi to act as counsellors & wartime advisors, then they'd have the powers of prescience on their side (i.e. when Obi-Wan senses disturbances in the force from light years away), putting them one step ahead of their opponents in terms of intelligence and making assassinations and spying difficult. While Psykers could probably do so better (because unless you're counting force Unleashed which is wildly inconsistent with the rest of the franchise in terms of power levels then Psykers generally have more raw power than Jedi), if they were to keep it up in order to outguess the High Council, you'd start seeing a lot of head-explosions and demonic possessions at HQ.

OTOH, the 40K-verse has been in a state of total war for thousands of years, and so is probably one of the more battle-hardened universes out there, especially considering the long periods of peace in SW in between each war.

However, I believe the general consensus is that only someone of exceptional power, i.e. a librarian, would stand much of a chance against even a novice Jedi. And since there are many more Jedi than there are great heroes, SW has the advantage on that front.

It would be epic, it would make a smashing film, but IMHO in the end it would go to SW, though by no means easily.

Veteran warriors? The Empire Employ's One race over all others when it comes to such things.

The one Mercenary Band it actually consults with on a fairly regular basis and offers the respect its people demand.

The Mandolorians.

:/ You think veteran stormtrooper legions are bad?

Wait until those boys hit dirt.

Oh no, the Guard are not necessarily superior to the Storm Troopers and the Space Marines would not wipe the floor with Mandalorians by any means, the Imperium has been on the losing end of a galaxy-wide war for thousands of years, while the Empire has mainly fought wars of conquest and put down rebellions. So the Imperium definetly has more "grit" and any war between them would be hard-fought to the bitter end and, while the Empire would probably win, it would definetly be a hard-won and probably ultimately Pyrrhic victory.

[Hedron]

Common I mean the best I can do is look logically on Imperial Weaponry and Star Wars Weaponry.

Don't just assume that a normal battle barge will be unleashing a slingshot of a pencil towards your estrogen packed fantasy. They would be doing the same as well. They also do have almost uncountable number of anti-defensive systems all manned by computers. It would be suicidal to attempt to attack a Battle Barge. That's why some Chapters only have ONE because of how strong and top of the line they are.

I am also not counting the 40k Collection of Artillery - Tanks - Men - Aircrafts - Explosives - Suicidal Terrorists - Dwarfs - Smelly snipers - Centaurs - Giants. I mean I also have all these in my arsenal.

Aircraft were debunked, Armor could be penetrated and removed by concussion missiles that is what they are designed for after all, Tanks? The Empire has those as well, Explosives? The Standard Imperial thermal detonator is probably superior to whatever the Imperium can field. Dwarves? Really? Sending midgets into battle eh? Good Luck, Snipers? Empire has those as well with a better gun even!

The rest of those things out of myth probably wouldn't make much a diffrence.

Oh - Thermal Detonators are still there? How cute- Melta-Grenades. Krak-grenades.

Melta- Grenades being able to melt through anything and explode. Quite sufficient at destroying heavily armed targets and even structures.

As for krak-grenades they are for Anti-Personnel which would be in range of Thermal Detonator which is the same.

Tanks? Does the Imperial have the Super Baneblade?

Nope...

Look how massive this sucker is...



Can survive multiple explosive shots definitely from your lore as well. Though not invincible. Quite maneuverable surprisingly but not maneuverable as your tanks.

[Essos]

What do you mean you don't need to be a psyker to use the warp? The only other, non-psychic way to use the Warp is Warp travel which rips a hole in the edge of the Warp, not using it, more charging through it.

Non Pyskers within WH have demostrated Defense of Warp Abilities i would assume this is due to Mental Displining or outright countering the abilities within the Warp.

Notably the C'tan Aza'gorod during his battle with Space Marines including Pyskers.

.-. I am merely pointing out that if a non pysker can do this defense within the warp why couldn't a non pysker Jedi?

The canoninity of your reference is in doubt. Kinda like Squats in 5ed. Specifically, Azagorod, in the new Necron canon has not faced Space Marines in his unfettered form.

Non-psykers can do what is known as deny the witch. It's the equivalent of praying really hard that the psyker does not kill you. Without the Blessing of the Blood God(which only one person has), it almost never works. It has about a 17% chance of success. I don't like them odds. It's very much a crap shoot, and your ability as a jedi, or your mental discipline, has no real effect on whether or not you can Deny the Witch.

[The Zeonic States]

Already covered this a few pages back.

Imperial pilots would have a field day blowing imperium vessels out of the skies Kilometers off due to their massive size.

Void Shields and Plus Massive Size = A lot of weapons. They won't even get close until their defenses has either run out of ammo. Or just overwhelmed by enemy forces which is highly unlikely.

Void Shields Fail and While Imperial fighter craft are slower in Atmo i would still credit them as better then whatever the Imperium could launch and bigger size means bigger target.

You think a Imperium fighter could stand up to a Tie Interceptor in a dog fight?

Alrightie lets go back to this agrument.

Autocanons and missiles or bombs are what you have on Imperium fighters.

(I knew it off the back because of the previous debate)

Your gen one Tie Interceptor?

SFS L-s9.3 laser cannons (4)

A certified Asteroid Killer.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/L-s9.3_laser_cannon

I don't care how strong those void Shields are after a few bursts from those batteries? They will burst and that Fighter will be downed.

Now imagine this on a Wide Scale Engagement alright? The Empire will no doubt lose Interceptors but the Imperium will lose the Air War.