The Star Wars vs. WH40K Debate

[Gideus]

You clearly have never participated in these before.

This is fairly civil by the standards I've seen.

Oh most of its been rather pleasant, i'm only referring to the last page or two where it got out of hand for no apparent reason...that aside as much as I hate to keep stepping back into the ring, heeere we go-

Eh i think it would come down to Number's game personally the Empire is packing Plasma tossing Blasters and ground command mobile centers (AT-AT) With Starship grade weaponry; Again me pointing to "Bigger" Not meaning automatically better.

AT-ATs have already been (in earlier posts) been pointed out as rather poorly designed tools of war, perhaps it may well be a good mobile command center but thats about it, take out one leg (via a Melta weaponry which is designed for anti vehicle tasks) and its either immobilized or even destroyed as it collapses.

Not mention that on the ground you have Imperial Artillery, Air Support and Orbital Support to consider.

All things the Imperial guard provides, and in spades I might add

I already showed those beautiful concussion missile launchers a few posts back concussion missiles would be the perfect counter to Imperium armored techology.

the Imperial guard has it's own anti-tank and vehicle missile launchers and equipment (including the aforementioned Melta weaponry), just as capable of disabling or destroying vehicles.

And ground engagements with Stromtroopers you have to consider the superiority in duration when it comes to Lasgun vs Blaster i won't be comparing firepower despite my consideration that Plasma is more powerful Laser Weaponry. I will point out however the munition ratings which is in the Blaster's favor considerably.

Now while granted we are talking movie logic, the point remains that in countless scenes in starwars, both sides (whom, according to our local SW aficionados in the thread, are the elite of both sides) have TERRIBLE aim or the weapons themselves are wretchedly inaccurate.

Lasgun's can have 100 to fewer then nineteen shots per charge in their magazines when your standard E-11 Blaster which is issued to the Imperial Army and Stormtrooper core holds 500 shots per magazine.

19 shots TEND to be bolt pistols, and i'll get to those in a moment, however power packs for Las pistols don't tend to have such few shots unless the operator has turned the power setting up on them or the weapons themselves are designed to have several, powerful shots per pack.

Also how long does it take to replace Lasgun batteries? Just curious.

Blaster magazines can be swapped out in a space of a few seconds in most cases.

after a quick glance at the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting primer (a small booklet which is designed to be a "how to" guide for imperial guardsmen) the process appears to be the same length of time, if not less.

And we haven't even gotten into Disruptor weaponry which is even stronger then blaster weaponry.

I think that Technology differences would see SW forces hold their own depending upon what they were facing on the ground.

Once again, Melta weaponry is still highly effective equipment, not including the fact that not every Imperial guard unit is the same. Guardsmen are equipped and trained in a non-uniform fashion, meaning that while one force on planet X might be mostly conscripts with third hand weapons and gear, another regiment from planet Y might be volunteer forces with some of the best weapons and armor as well as training money can buy. While this does mean that perhaps Stormtroopers know (more or less) what each person's weapons and armor are capable of to a T (since they are all wearing standard-issue weapons and kit), this allows the guard to be far more adaptable.

Case in point: the "Tanith First-and-Only" or more well known as "Gaunt's Ghosts" are an imperial guard regiment whom were originally a light infantry/scout task force. After losing their homeworld to a chaos incursion the Tanith first and only acquires all it's recruits from planets on which it conducts it's operations. The first one to come to mind being Verghast (an industrial world), Many of the regiment's soldiers hail from a wide variety of occupations (for instance, one of their regimental flame-thrower operators is in fact a former volunteer fire-fighter) and these men and women use the knowledge gained from former occupations to improve training and tactics for the unit overall. By themselves the First-and-only have held up to a wide range of missions (including assassination and defensive operations) which anyone else would consider suicidal and come out on top, albeit bloodied.

Getting back to Bolters (as I promised I would earlier), not all it's ammunition is designed to be explosive (although the typical munitions are highly frangible), listed here are a number of ammunition types available for such weaponry. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Bolter_Ammunition

While SW tech is admittedly impressive, it's array of vehicles seem downright pathetic compared to the Imperial Guard's and Adeptus Astarte's when considering ground and air warfare.[/quote]

Furthermore, the AT-AT's and other walkers (I have seen no tanks.) have very shoddy designs when it comes to thinking about their armor; some tanks from World War II had armor that was angled to deflect impacts better.

[AETEN II]

The Empire has tanks, including ones with shield generators. I'll post 'em tomorrow.

[The Mizarian Empire]

The Empire has tanks, including ones with shield generators. I'll post 'em tomorrow.

Lets go for a moment into the "Titans" shall we?

Titans are giant bipedal combat walkers, some of which are considered the largest vehicles in the 40K universe (barring spaceships). The Barrel assembly ALONE for ONE ARM'S weapon on some of the heaviest Titans are bigger than an entire AT-AT (ranging at 30 meters as opposed to the AT-AT's 22.5). Thats just one of it's weapons. Barring that, even the rare mid-sized titans are still larger, far more manueverable and far more equipped to handle just about anything on the battlefield thrown at it. The most common titans, heavier "Warlord" classes are 60 meters tall, with 4 shoulder mounts for any number of weapons which can be installed. That's not even including a pair of Volcano cannons, weapons which are capable of leveling entire cities in one blast each.

[Priory Academy USSR]

The Empire has tanks, including ones with shield generators. I'll post 'em tomorrow.

On SW: Empire At War (assuming video games are canon) they're fairly shit on both sides.

[Immoren]

assuming video games are canon

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.
T-canon[5] refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the upcoming Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee.[6]
C-canon is primarily composed of elements from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks are a special case; the stories and general background information are themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay are, with few exceptions, N-canon.
S-canon is secondary canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the online roleplaying game Star Wars: Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.
N-canon is non-canon. "What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), crossover appearances (such as the Star Wars character appearances in Soulcalibur IV), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. A significant amount of material that was previously C-canon was rendered N-canon by the release of Episodes I–III.

[Unified Sith]

I think the focus is on tech, and players are not really taking into account the socio-political environment of each universe.

Star Wars has the tendency to form a Galactic Central government, unified, in the interests of member planets or not. This is a great advantage the canon has over the 40K universe, which is a constant desire for political, centralised government.

Warhammer on the other, in particular the Imperium of man is very similar. However the Imperium and all the other races have significant disadvantages. They are not alone. Every race in the Warhammer continuum is struggling for survival. Imperium, Orcs, Eldar, Chaos, even the Necrons are hiding from the younger races and the warp.

When faced by an invasion from a unified galactic entity such as the Empire, or Republic each race in 40K would be hard pressed to find the resources to defend a new front. The Imperium for example would have to organise vast amounts of manpower and ships to defend against an invasion from the Empire. Weaking their defences against Chaos, Orcs, Tau, the list goes on.

Equally this corresponds into any effective invasion of the SW Galaxy. The Imperium and other races just don't have the armies and ships to spare to launch an invasion of an entire galaxy when they themselves are struggling for survival. It would be like the Galactic Republic launching a full invasion of the Imperium during the height of the clone wars. It just wouldn't work.

For me, in a 40K v SW conflict, technology isn't the issue. It's quite clear that because of hyperdrive, SW would win in orbit and any 40K would win on the ground.

Yet, because no race in 40K can really afford the manpower to really fight of a united galaxy or even conquer it, both factions would grind into stalemate. (Imperium v Empire)

It would be a stalemate for several reasons:

1) Warp Travel would be too dangerous and too slow to travel to another Galaxy.
2) Hyperdrive requires exact precise star maps. Any invasion of the Milky Way would require hundreds of years of mapping. And this is assuming adequate hyperlanes could be charted,
3) The Imperial Navy has the technology to win in orbit, but lacks the experience or willpower to make the sacrifices necessary to take a 40K world. The Empire or Republic would have to launch BDZ actions in each campaign, or encourage worlds to leave the Imperium and march into freedom.
4) Terra is vulnerable to SW type weapons. The loss of Terra would decimate warp travel for the Imperium.
5) The Empire and Republic would most likely be unwilling to prosecute a war against humanity once they learn about the other more dangerous species. It's more likely the war would end in a temporary treaty where the SW universe may even aid the Imperium.

[Condunum]

Imagine if the Tau got a hold of something like that.

Just imagine fire warriors, with their incredible skill, with the armor of storm troopers. Refashioned for them, of course.

I grin at the thought of that, because it's a realistic possibly for them to actually develop something like that on their own as they are.

Or worse, Tau get their hands on disruptor tech (it disintegrates people EVEN WITH A GRAZING SHOT), and improved the range. They're be effectively armed with guns that are on par with the Necron Gauss weaponry.

Oh wouldn't that be fun?

It makes me glad I picked the Tau, although I picked them because they looked cool.

[AETEN II]

The Empire has tanks, including ones with shield generators. I'll post 'em tomorrow.

On SW: Empire At War (assuming video games are canon) they're fairly shit on both sides.

Gameplay isn't canon, and the tanks you see in the game are damned good.

[Arcturus Novus]

Why can't we all agree that sci-fi in general is awesome...

[Condunum]

Why can't we all agree that sci-fi in general is awesome...

If you don't get the point of the debate then don't post.

[The Zeonic States]

Oh most of its been rather pleasant, i'm only referring to the last page or two where it got out of hand for no apparent reason...that aside as much as I hate to keep stepping back into the ring, heeere we go-

AT-ATs have already been (in earlier posts) been pointed out as rather poorly designed tools of war, perhaps it may well be a good mobile command center but thats about it, take out one leg (via a Melta weaponry which is designed for anti vehicle tasks) and its either immobilized or even destroyed as it collapses.

All things the Imperial guard provides, and in spades I might add



the Imperial guard has it's own anti-tank and vehicle missile launchers and equipment (including the aforementioned Melta weaponry), just as capable of disabling or destroying vehicles.



Now while granted we are talking movie logic, the point remains that in countless scenes in starwars, both sides (whom, according to our local SW aficionados in the thread, are the elite of both sides) have TERRIBLE aim or the weapons themselves are wretchedly inaccurate.



19 shots TEND to be bolt pistols, and i'll get to those in a moment, however power packs for Las pistols don't tend to have such few shots unless the operator has turned the power setting up on them or the weapons themselves are designed to have several, powerful shots per pack.



after a quick glance at the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting primer (a small booklet which is designed to be a "how to" guide for imperial guardsmen) the process appears to be the same length of time, if not less.

Once again, Melta weaponry is still highly effective equipment, not including the fact that not every Imperial guard unit is the same. Guardsmen are equipped and trained in a non-uniform fashion, meaning that while one force on planet X might be mostly conscripts with third hand weapons and gear, another regiment from planet Y might be volunteer forces with some of the best weapons and armor as well as training money can buy. While this does mean that perhaps Stormtroopers know (more or less) what each person's weapons and armor are capable of to a T (since they are all wearing standard-issue weapons and kit), this allows the guard to be far more adaptable.

Case in point: the "Tanith First-and-Only" or more well known as "Gaunt's Ghosts" are an imperial guard regiment whom were originally a light infantry/scout task force. After losing their homeworld to a chaos incursion the Tanith first and only acquires all it's recruits from planets on which it conducts it's operations. The first one to come to mind being Verghast (an industrial world), Many of the regiment's soldiers hail from a wide variety of occupations (for instance, one of their regimental flame-thrower operators is in fact a former volunteer fire-fighter) and these men and women use the knowledge gained from former occupations to improve training and tactics for the unit overall. By themselves the First-and-only have held up to a wide range of missions (including assassination and defensive operations) which anyone else would consider suicidal and come out on top, albeit bloodied.

Getting back to Bolters (as I promised I would earlier), not all it's ammunition is designed to be explosive (although the typical munitions are highly frangible), listed here are a number of ammunition types available for such weaponry. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Bolter_Ammunition

While SW tech is admittedly impressive, it's array of vehicles seem downright pathetic compared to the Imperial Guard's and Adeptus Astarte's when considering ground and air warfare.

Furthermore, the AT-AT's and other walkers (I have seen no tanks.) have very shoddy designs when it comes to thinking about their armor; some tanks from World War II had armor that was angled to deflect impacts better.[/quote]

Air being air combat within atmosphere? Your standard issue Tie Fighter can engage in atmosphere with only minor interfrence and reduction in preformance.

So in the air you are still going to have swarms of Plasma Spewing Tie Fighters and of course that means Tie Bombers will also be there and whatever variation of TIE they have with them. Not counting the assault Gunboats, Gunships and etc you will have being deployed during an invasion.

Ye-4 gunships

Lets take a look at their firepower shall we?

It was armed with six turret weapons that could effortlessly destroy enemy starfighters. Two of its weapons were forward-firing, two were able to fire in a 180 degree arc above the ship, one was mounted aft to fire at pursuing vessels, while the last was mounted under the cockpit section to cover the gunship's belly.

From Wookiepedia.

Now to the Gunboats and Blast Boats.

GAT-12 Skipray Blastboat

Two forward-swept stabilizer fins branched out from a rotating assembly at the aft of the ship and housed two of the Mendarn Arms Dar-2 ion cannons. The stabilizers were kept vertically in flight, with the ion cannons deployed above and below the rest of the ship; the fins rotated horizontally for landing, putting them on either side of the ship in a more traditional winged configuration.

A third Dar-2 ion cannon was housed in the nose of the ship, with a concussion missile launcher and proton torpedo tube flanking it starboard and port, respectively. On the dorsal fuselage, a fire-linked pair of Senko Systems "Tru-Lok" 5000x2 laser cannons were mounted in a turret. (Some configurations replace these with Turbolasers)

Shielded, Capable of Hyper space and independent operation and your standard star destoryer carriers dozens of these.

Oh and here is something interesting.

While designed as a space-faring vessel, the ship actually performed better in atmospheric flight, with a (reported) top speed of 1,200 km/h; and its aerodynamic frame provided a better atmospheric maneuvering performance than all but high-performance airspeeders

Again to Wookiepedia.

Now let's go into something pretty much unique to the galatic empire; Aerial Artillery.

Lancet Aerial Artillery

Lancets were armed with a powerful proton beam cannon centrally mounted on the fore of the fuselage and angled optimally for air-to-ground attacks. However, the solar array used for TIE's was incorporated into the tri-wing form. They also had 2 anti-air systems to defend themselves.

Like their spacefaring relatives, their lack of combat shields made them vulnerable to anti-aircraft laser and mass-driver cannons.

The Lancet was capable of causing tremendous damage to land-based targets. However, its weapons were found to be less effective against mobile targets.

From Wookiepedia.

Not as impressive as some of the other vessels of the Empire but it has enough firepower to be mentioned here.

Toss in normal fighters which can be used into Atmo with no reconfiguration and add in a few swarms of bombers and escort gunships and blastboats? I think the Imperiums boys would have their hands full.

Now to tanks

The Tie Mauler, Crawler.

You have these then you have Heavy Assault Vehicles.

Like the Heavy Assault Vehicle/repulsorlift A9 Floating Fortress with two heavy Blaster canons and the ability to hold ten armored stormtroopers (plus crew) saw this baby seeing theaters through out the galaxy.

Another one Heavy Assault Vehicle Transport (HAVT) B5 Juggernaut

Armed with point defense laser canons and anti infantry laser canons plus the ability to once again carry infantry into battle in armored safety.

I believe your underestimation of the galatic empire in armored warfare is understandable as most of its usage has been seen in the EU.

But you are also incorrect.

The Empire has nothing comparable to a Titan but then it really doesn't need to; Put an AT-AT against a Titan and i am betting on the AT-AT.

[Lunas Legion]

I think the focus is on tech, and players are not really taking into account the socio-political environment of each universe.

Star Wars has the tendency to form a Galactic Central government, unified, in the interests of member planets or not. This is a great advantage the canon has over the 40K universe, which is a constant desire for political, centralised government.

Warhammer on the other, in particular the Imperium of man is very similar. However the Imperium and all the other races have significant disadvantages. They are not alone. Every race in the Warhammer continuum is struggling for survival. Imperium, Orcs, Eldar, Chaos, even the Necrons are hiding from the younger races and the warp.

When faced by an invasion from a unified galactic entity such as the Empire, or Republic each race in 40K would be hard pressed to find the resources to defend a new front. The Imperium for example would have to organise vast amounts of manpower and ships to defend against an invasion from the Empire. Weaking their defences against Chaos, Orcs, Tau, the list goes on.

Equally this corresponds into any effective invasion of the SW Galaxy. The Imperium and other races just don't have the armies and ships to spare to launch an invasion of an entire galaxy when they themselves are struggling for survival. It would be like the Galactic Republic launching a full invasion of the Imperium during the height of the clone wars. It just wouldn't work.

For me, in a 40K v SW conflict, technology isn't the issue. It's quite clear that because of hyperdrive, SW would win in orbit and any 40K would win on the ground.

Yet, because no race in 40K can really afford the manpower to really fight of a united galaxy or even conquer it, both factions would grind into stalemate. (Imperium v Empire)

It would be a stalemate for several reasons:

1) Warp Travel would be too dangerous and too slow to travel to another Galaxy.
2) Hyperdrive requires exact precise star maps. Any invasion of the Milky Way would require hundreds of years of mapping. And this is assuming adequate hyperlanes could be charted,
3) The Imperial Navy has the technology to win in orbit, but lacks the experience or willpower to make the sacrifices necessary to take a 40K world. The Empire or Republic would have to launch BDZ actions in each campaign, or encourage worlds to leave the Imperium and march into freedom.
4) Terra is vulnerable to SW type weapons. The loss of Terra would decimate warp travel for the Imperium.
5) The Empire and Republic would most likely be unwilling to prosecute a war against humanity once they learn about the other more dangerous species. It's more likely the war would end in a temporary treaty where the SW universe may even aid the Imperium.

I agree, it would be a complete stalemate.

Although how bloody a stalemate depends on where the SW attack from.

From the Eastern Fringe, they would be shredded by the Tau- who are probabaly the only faction that can take the Empire on in space along with the Necrons.

They'd beat the Tau eventually through sheer weight of numbers and then have to face the mass of defences along the Eastern Fringe and cross half the galaxy to get to Holy Terra.

From the Galactic South (below the galaxy) they'd face off against Levithan followed by all the Imperium's forces marshalled against it.

From the Eye of Terror area, they'd have to cross the Eye, taking heavy losses and possibily losing everyone involved.

From either the Halo or Ghoul stars they'd stand a much better chance as those two regions have average strength garrisons.

Or from the Galactic North.

[The Zeonic States]

I think the focus is on tech, and players are not really taking into account the socio-political environment of each universe.

Star Wars has the tendency to form a Galactic Central government, unified, in the interests of member planets or not. This is a great advantage the canon has over the 40K universe, which is a constant desire for political, centralised government.

Warhammer on the other, in particular the Imperium of man is very similar. However the Imperium and all the other races have significant disadvantages. They are not alone. Every race in the Warhammer continuum is struggling for survival. Imperium, Orcs, Eldar, Chaos, even the Necrons are hiding from the younger races and the warp.

When faced by an invasion from a unified galactic entity such as the Empire, or Republic each race in 40K would be hard pressed to find the resources to defend a new front. The Imperium for example would have to organise vast amounts of manpower and ships to defend against an invasion from the Empire. Weaking their defences against Chaos, Orcs, Tau, the list goes on.

Equally this corresponds into any effective invasion of the SW Galaxy. The Imperium and other races just don't have the armies and ships to spare to launch an invasion of an entire galaxy when they themselves are struggling for survival. It would be like the Galactic Republic launching a full invasion of the Imperium during the height of the clone wars. It just wouldn't work.

For me, in a 40K v SW conflict, technology isn't the issue. It's quite clear that because of hyperdrive, SW would win in orbit and any 40K would win on the ground.

Yet, because no race in 40K can really afford the manpower to really fight of a united galaxy or even conquer it, both factions would grind into stalemate. (Imperium v Empire)

It would be a stalemate for several reasons:

1) Warp Travel would be too dangerous and too slow to travel to another Galaxy.
2) Hyperdrive requires exact precise star maps. Any invasion of the Milky Way would require hundreds of years of mapping. And this is assuming adequate hyperlanes could be charted,
3) The Imperial Navy has the technology to win in orbit, but lacks the experience or willpower to make the sacrifices necessary to take a 40K world. The Empire or Republic would have to launch BDZ actions in each campaign, or encourage worlds to leave the Imperium and march into freedom.
4) Terra is vulnerable to SW type weapons. The loss of Terra would decimate warp travel for the Imperium.
5) The Empire and Republic would most likely be unwilling to prosecute a war against humanity once they learn about the other more dangerous species. It's more likely the war would end in a temporary treaty where the SW universe may even aid the Imperium.

I agree, it would be a complete stalemate.

Although how bloody a stalemate depends on where the SW attack from.

From the Eastern Fringe, they would be shredded by the Tau- who are probabaly the only faction that can take the Empire on in space along with the Necrons.

They'd beat the Tau eventually through sheer weight of numbers and then have to face the mass of defences along the Eastern Fringe and cross half the galaxy to get to Holy Terra.

From the Galactic South (below the galaxy) they'd face off against Levithan followed by all the Imperium's forces marshalled against it.

From the Eye of Terror area, they'd have to cross the Eye, taking heavy losses and possibily losing everyone involved.

From either the Halo or Ghoul stars they'd stand a much better chance as those two regions have average strength garrisons.

Or from the Galactic North.

The Tau have "comparable" techology but their mastery of it is barely reaching infancy.

The Empire would rip them to shreds in ground or space combat.

I already did an agrument about why; I agree the Empire's greatest techological challenge would come from the Tau but i still don't believe it would be much of a challenge, their Military isn't very centralized for one thing. It's built up among a Caste System which Each Caste serving a role, There is also their criminal, non native and etc legions it seems they took a page from the romans as well, Their Non Tau forces i mean.

However their sheer reliance upon range on the ground would earn them nothing but destruction, Lives would be lost for the Empire certainly perhap several thousand when they were taking planets from the Tau assuming they didn't just decide to bulldoze through their space and they actually wanted to anex the tau empire.

But back to my point their techological advancement in the art of ranged warfare is no where near as advanced or refined as the Empire thus i could see the Empire shrugging off their artillery bombardments and missile showers and then returning fire and decimating entire formations with turbolasers firing plasma.

Now man to Man?

I would have to credit the Imperial Stormtrooper over the average fire caste warrior namely due to their techological diffrences the Tau from what i can tell puts more effort into the skill and training of their soldiers rather then base ulitity like the Imperial philosphy of training.

I can see the war with the Tau Lasting several months, Maybe a Year with a few imperial divisions being lost per planet but the Tau taking at least four times what Imperial casulities are.

Eventually i think the Tau would Surrender Their Military isn't exactly anywhere near as large as the galatic empire's after all.



And the Necron i have still not seen anything that truely made me think they would be able to stop the Imperial advance their techology is odd, novel but hardly invicinble.

[Condunum]

I agree, it would be a complete stalemate.

Although how bloody a stalemate depends on where the SW attack from.

From the Eastern Fringe, they would be shredded by the Tau- who are probabaly the only faction that can take the Empire on in space along with the Necrons.

They'd beat the Tau eventually through sheer weight of numbers and then have to face the mass of defences along the Eastern Fringe and cross half the galaxy to get to Holy Terra.

From the Galactic South (below the galaxy) they'd face off against Levithan followed by all the Imperium's forces marshalled against it.

From the Eye of Terror area, they'd have to cross the Eye, taking heavy losses and possibily losing everyone involved.

From either the Halo or Ghoul stars they'd stand a much better chance as those two regions have average strength garrisons.

Or from the Galactic North.

The Tau have "comparable" techology but their mastery of it is barely reaching infancy.

The Empire would rip them to shreds in ground or space combat.

I already did an agrument about why; I agree the Empire's greatest techological challenge would come from the Tau but i still don't believe it would be much of a challenge, their Military isn't very centralized for one thing. It's built up among a Caste System which Each Caste serving a role, There is also their criminal, non native and etc legions it seems they took a page from the romans as well, Their Non Tau forces i mean.

If you seriously, honestly believe their military isn't centralized or well organized, you really, really, really need to start reading more.

[The Zeonic States]

The Tau have "comparable" techology but their mastery of it is barely reaching infancy.

The Empire would rip them to shreds in ground or space combat.

I already did an agrument about why; I agree the Empire's greatest techological challenge would come from the Tau but i still don't believe it would be much of a challenge, their Military isn't very centralized for one thing. It's built up among a Caste System which Each Caste serving a role, There is also their criminal, non native and etc legions it seems they took a page from the romans as well, Their Non Tau forces i mean.

If you seriously, honestly believe their military isn't centralized or well organized, you really, really, really need to start reading more.

Their Military is divided up into differing aspects of "earth, wind, water and fire" With the Majority of Your seen ground forces being Fire i believe i said earlier. This is NOT by any defination a centralized Military due to the prequiste of centralized Military being Utility. Once Your fire commander is dead who takes over? Is the Blue no they are busy running their fellows, You would have to call up the regional leader i would assume just to get a named second in command if things were in enough chaos.

I mean honestly this works for them i suppose but no they aren't centralized Military due to their clans detirmining their Utility instead of their ulitity determining position. They can be as orgnized as they wish during marches it doesn't change my estimation of their Military. Centralization is overlapping comamnd structure and clear boundaries being established between them.

But Please if i have misread tge Lexicanum and misunderstood something about the tau caste system please inform me.

[Condunum]

If you seriously, honestly believe their military isn't centralized or well organized, you really, really, really need to start reading more.

Their Military is divided up into differing aspects of "earth, wind, water and fire" With the Majority of Your seen ground forces being Fire i believe i said earlier. This is NOT by any defination a centralized Military due to the prequiste of centralized Military being Utility. Once Your fire commander is dead who takes over? Is the Blue no they are busy running their fellows, You would have to call up the regional leader i would assume just to get a named second in command if things were in enough chaos.

I mean honestly this works for them i suppose but no they aren't centralized Military due to their clans detirmining their Utility instead of their ulitity determining position. They can be as orgnized as they wish during marches it doesn't change my estimation of their Military. Centralization is overlapping comamnd structure and clear boundaries being established between them.

But Please if i have misread tge Lexicanum and misunderstood something about the tau caste system please inform me.

You have a gross misunderstanding. Their military is the fire caste. End of. Their society is divided by caste system.

[The Zeonic States]

Their Military is divided up into differing aspects of "earth, wind, water and fire" With the Majority of Your seen ground forces being Fire i believe i said earlier. This is NOT by any defination a centralized Military due to the prequiste of centralized Military being Utility. Once Your fire commander is dead who takes over? Is the Blue no they are busy running their fellows, You would have to call up the regional leader i would assume just to get a named second in command if things were in enough chaos.

I mean honestly this works for them i suppose but no they aren't centralized Military due to their clans detirmining their Utility instead of their ulitity determining position. They can be as orgnized as they wish during marches it doesn't change my estimation of their Military. Centralization is overlapping comamnd structure and clear boundaries being established between them.

But Please if i have misread tge Lexicanum and misunderstood something about the tau caste system please inform me.

You have a gross misunderstanding. Their military is the fire caste. End of. Their society is divided by caste system.

So their space and air travel is not formed by the Air caste? Sorry freind i believe misunderstanding came from AIDING IN MILITARY OPERATIONS BUT NOT BEING IN THE MILITARY. Such a concept really doesn't sit well with me. I mean heck its the air caste in their fighters engaging enemies no? How the **** can you have fighter pilots that are engaging enemy forces but not part of your military?

The only thing i can come up with is denability and that doesn't even work in their society because they don't need to deny anything.

I just don't understand this shit

Not one bit.

._.So what purpose does the having their in field commanders of these castes serve during battle? Besides forming a stagnating stranglehold i mean.

[Condunum]

You have a gross misunderstanding. Their military is the fire caste. End of. Their society is divided by caste system.

So their space and air travel is not formed by the Air caste?

It is. But the Fire caste is their military, by all means. They're the troops on the ships. In fact, they're the only caste who's physical scructure has adapted to fighting so well.

sorry freind i believe misunderstanding came from AIDING IN MILITARY OPERATIONS BUT NOT BEING IN THE MILITARY. Such a concept really doesn't sit well with me. I mean heck its the air caste in their fighters engaging enemies no? How the **** can you have fighter pilots that are engaging enemy forces but not part of your military?

Errr... Tough shit? That's how it works.

The only thing i can come up with is denability and that doesn't even work in their society because they don't need to deny anything.

But they aren't. That's just how it is.

I just don't understand this shit

Not one bit.

Again, tough shit?

._.So what purpose does the having their in field commanders of these castes serve during battle? Besides forming a stagnating stranglehold i mean.

...What?

[The Zeonic States]

So their space and air travel is not formed by the Air caste?

It is. But the Fire caste is their military, by all means. They're the troops on the ships. In fact, they're the only caste who's physical scructure has adapted to fighting so well.

sorry freind i believe misunderstanding came from AIDING IN MILITARY OPERATIONS BUT NOT BEING IN THE MILITARY. Such a concept really doesn't sit well with me. I mean heck its the air caste in their fighters engaging enemies no? How the **** can you have fighter pilots that are engaging enemy forces but not part of your military?

Errr... Tough shit? That's how it works.

The only thing i can come up with is denability and that doesn't even work in their society because they don't need to deny anything.

But they aren't. That's just how it is.

I just don't understand this shit

Not one bit.

Again, tough shit?

._.So what purpose does the having their in field commanders of these castes serve during battle? Besides forming a stagnating stranglehold i mean.

...What?

Well i will have to agree with the Lexi over you in this regard and view the Fire and Air caste as two portions of the Military then.

And the lexi informed me that they generally have their Caste Leaders as field or battle commanders.

Hence me thinking if you managed to get a hit on the command center and wipe out the head fire clan boy in the field their opposition would collapse.

Lack of Ulitity and very, very centralized command would see them fall apart.

Because again according to the Lexi their high command is the one dictating their infield stratagems unlike the Empire which's in field officers can seize tactical positioning and move their forces with out approval from high command, but of course the Ultimate plan comes down from High Command but the diffrence here is that the Imperial Military can operate with out High Command when the Tau Military from what i have gathered will not.

Their Cadre's are invidually directed by the Tau High Command that is their weakeness.

I have no doubt they could operate on their own but i have a feeling they would be a lot less successful.

A war would be become a skirmishing action and once the Empire saw success with such tactics they would start targeting command positions at the start of engagements.

And once they start getting within sight of the Tau Home Cluster? It's all but game over for them, The Tau worlds are unqiue in Warhammer i suppose because they are not fortress worlds they are merely worlds cluttered with cities.

Blowing these cities apart from orbit would be a simple matter, You could have the complete genocide of the tau completed inside two years and with probably less then two million casualities and most of those would i assume be suffered upon the ground. Their lack of Numbers, Unflexiable command structure and their techology favoring range when the Empire just excells at it would see them fall apart quicker then in my opinion every other faction in WH besides the Orks.

They would be their only techological rivals certainly but their techology is just operating on two diffrent spectrums.

[Condunum]

It is. But the Fire caste is their military, by all means. They're the troops on the ships. In fact, they're the only caste who's physical scructure has adapted to fighting so well.


Errr... Tough shit? That's how it works.


But they aren't. That's just how it is.


Again, tough shit?


...What?

Well i will have to agree with the Lexi over you in this regard and view the Fire and Air caste as two portions of the Military then.

And the lexi informed me that they generally have their Caste Leaders as field or battle commanders.

Yes, leaders tend to lead.

Hence me thinking if you managed to get a hit on the command center and wipe out the head fire clan boy in the field their opposition would collapse.

Nope.

Lack of Ulitity and very, very centralized command would see them fall apart.

Again, nope. You're thinking far too linear. When leadership is killed, they retreat, regroup and ambush. It's the Tau way.

Because again according to the Lexi their high command is the one dictating their infield stratagems unlike the Empire which's in field officers can seize tactical positioning and move their forces with out approval from high command, but of course the Ultimate plan comes down from High Command but the diffrence here is that the Imperial Military can operate with out High Command when the Tau Military from what i have gathered will not.

Yes, actually, it can. Unless of course you have something to prove to me that fire warrior squadrons are incapable of independent thought or that they don't have a chain of command.

Their Cadre's are invidually directed by the Tau High Command that is their weakeness.

It's also an extreme strength.

I have no doubt they could operate on their own but i have a feeling they would be a lot less successful.

A war would be become a skirmishing action and once the Empire saw success with such tactics they would start targeting command positions at the start of engagements.

Tau wars are always Skirmish actions. Their basic philosophy on defensive battles is to whittle your opponent away with sneaky tactics.

And once they start getting within sight of the Tau Home Cluster? It's all but game over for them, The Tau worlds are unqiue in Warhammer i suppose because they are not fortress worlds they are merely worlds cluttered with cities.

Assuming they'll even get that deep.


In sum, you really, really need to hush up and read about the tau some more, and not cherry-pick information from the lex.

[The Zeonic States]

Well i will have to agree with the Lexi over you in this regard and view the Fire and Air caste as two portions of the Military then.

And the lexi informed me that they generally have their Caste Leaders as field or battle commanders.

Yes, leaders tend to lead.

Hence me thinking if you managed to get a hit on the command center and wipe out the head fire clan boy in the field their opposition would collapse.

Nope.

Lack of Ulitity and very, very centralized command would see them fall apart.

Again, nope. You're thinking far too linear. When leadership is killed, they retreat, regroup and ambush. It's the Tau way.

Because again according to the Lexi their high command is the one dictating their infield stratagems unlike the Empire which's in field officers can seize tactical positioning and move their forces with out approval from high command, but of course the Ultimate plan comes down from High Command but the diffrence here is that the Imperial Military can operate with out High Command when the Tau Military from what i have gathered will not.

Yes, actually, it can. Unless of course you have something to prove to me that fire warrior squadrons are incapable of independent thought or that they don't have a chain of command.

Their Cadre's are invidually directed by the Tau High Command that is their weakeness.

It's also an extreme strength.

I have no doubt they could operate on their own but i have a feeling they would be a lot less successful.

A war would be become a skirmishing action and once the Empire saw success with such tactics they would start targeting command positions at the start of engagements.

Tau wars are always Skirmish actions. Their basic philosophy on defensive battles is to whittle your opponent away with sneaky tactics.

And once they start getting within sight of the Tau Home Cluster? It's all but game over for them, The Tau worlds are unqiue in Warhammer i suppose because they are not fortress worlds they are merely worlds cluttered with cities.

Assuming they'll even get that deep.


In sum, you really, really need to hush up and read about the tau some more, and not cherry-pick information from the lex.

Cherry Pick? I acknowledge their knowledge and usage of railgun based weaponry in the Fleet and their own usage of "Plasma Weaponry" I acknowledge that their forces are complimented by non Tau additions that form additional armies just as they did for the Romans.

And Sneaky Tactics? You are refering to the Lexi's statement about them not using standard Static Defenses?

Launching an insurgency would be a novel tactic if the Empire came for occupation in which case after the Tau Military on the world was broken they would establish their standard garrisions and fast response garrisions and probably park a few Naval Ships in orbit. And then it would come down to either the Insurgency being blown apart in skirmish by skirmish until their forces are depleted, the Empire losing pateince and just glassing the Planet or the Imperial forces requesting reinforcements which results in the insurgency being put down.

You said yourself the rest of the castes aren't Military you think they would resist occupation? Perhaps but perhaps not after all their society revolves around them being the ultimate species in the galaxy, their way being better then every other way in existance, their culture, People and etc just being better.

They would have to face an evident truth when the Empire began to defeat them in battle, Combine that with their rather accepting and open culture? You have annexation waiting to happen. Once the Tau military is "retreat" as you said the Empire can begin occupation and annexation, I wonder if the Tau would marvel at the Galatic Empire.

Their idealogies are similar in someways, Although the Empire is fairly xenophobic but it doesn't stop them from governing Aliens.

That said i think there are some Battles with the Tau that the Empire could win through words rather then blood.

As for getting within the Tau home cluster? Given the superiority of the Imperial navy over the tau navy? I believe they would yes. Espeically given the usage of Particle shielding that would espeiclally negate the tau's usage of railgun based weaponry repeat shots of enough power could burn out or damage shielding conduction through out vessels certainly but when it comes to the empire firing back? Thats when things to go pieces for the tau in space.

And in the situation you described they would retreat; as in turn their backs to an advancing Army? Did you see how the Empire handled retreating forces at Hoth? Or Kessel? Or Fondor? Shooting them in the back isn't exactly a qualm for the average stormtrooper.

Assuming a tenth of the force that had been engaging the Imperial forces survived this "retreat" you would feel lucky. Because it's not like you wouldn't have Imperial forces trying to stop them from retreating, they are big fans of defeat and then rout in detail tactics if you haven't picked that up.

As for Fire Warrior chain of command? My idea is just speculation like your own however given the fact their command structure as i can see it is fairly centralized there must be an existing command structure in case of such losses. However trying to figure that out during the chaos of a battle when you are having entire formations clashing with each other?

Well that wouldn't be a picnic.

I just believe that losses of their commanding officer would send forces INTO disarray, you would have them operating independently, Apart from what their original Plan was thus reducing effectiveness.

[Condunum]

Hence me thinking if you managed to get a hit on the command center and wipe out the head fire clan boy in the field their opposition would collapse.

Nope.

Lack of Ulitity and very, very centralized command would see them fall apart.

Again, nope. You're thinking far too linear. When leadership is killed, they retreat, regroup and ambush. It's the Tau way.

Because again according to the Lexi their high command is the one dictating their infield stratagems unlike the Empire which's in field officers can seize tactical positioning and move their forces with out approval from high command, but of course the Ultimate plan comes down from High Command but the diffrence here is that the Imperial Military can operate with out High Command when the Tau Military from what i have gathered will not.

Yes, actually, it can. Unless of course you have something to prove to me that fire warrior squadrons are incapable of independent thought or that they don't have a chain of command.

Their Cadre's are invidually directed by the Tau High Command that is their weakeness.

It's also an extreme strength.

I have no doubt they could operate on their own but i have a feeling they would be a lot less successful.

A war would be become a skirmishing action and once the Empire saw success with such tactics they would start targeting command positions at the start of engagements.

Tau wars are always Skirmish actions. Their basic philosophy on defensive battles is to whittle your opponent away with sneaky tactics.

And once they start getting within sight of the Tau Home Cluster? It's all but game over for them, The Tau worlds are unqiue in Warhammer i suppose because they are not fortress worlds they are merely worlds cluttered with cities.

Assuming they'll even get that deep.


In sum, you really, really need to hush up and read about the tau some more, and not cherry-pick information from the lex.[/quote]

Cherry Pick? I acknowledge their knowledge and usage of railgun based weaponry in the Fleet and their own usage of "Plasma Weaponry" I acknowledge that their forces are complimented by non Tau additions that form additional armies just as they did for the Romans.

Yes, Auxilaries. Auxilaries do a very good job when used in a very indirect fighting army.

And Sneaky Tactics? You are refering to the Lexi's statement about them not using standard Static Defenses? [/quote]
I'm referring to their military school of thought, which heavily discourages direct contact.

Launching an insurgency would be a novel tactic if the Empire came for occupation in which case after the Tau Military on the world was broken they would establish their standard garrisions and fast response garrisions and probably park a few Naval Ships in orbit. And then it would come down to either the Insurgency being blown apart in skirmish by skirmish until their forces are depleted, the Empire losing pateince and just glassing the Planet or the Imperial forces requesting reinforcements which results in the insurgency being put down.

Again, you're assuming the Tau don't have the technological capacity to hold out. The Empire will not be a first contact full force attack. There will be a first contact and it will push the tau to their technological best, because that's what you do when you meet a superior force and have the means to improve. There will be a grace period between first contact and when the actual war happens. In that time, the race that went from gunpowder using tribals to a race technologically superior to everyone else in 2000 years will be more than capable of saying "fuck you, we aren't going anywhere."

You said yourself the rest of the castes aren't Military you think they would resist occupation? Perhaps but perhaps not after all their society revolves around them being the ultimate species in the galaxy, their way being better then every other way in existance, their culture, People and etc just being better.

So everything you just said here proves that they won't give up. Like, ever. The only way they'd not fight is if there was a fair truce. Which I find far more likely than any successful invasion.

They would have to face an evident truth when the Empire began to defeat them in battle, Combine that with their rather accepting and open culture? You have annexation waiting to happen. Once the Tau military is "retreat" as you said the Empire can begin occupation and annexation, I wonder if the Tau would marvel at the Galatic Empire.

But they wouldn't, because only someone who knows jack shit about war would think that first contact would be an invasion force of size enough to wipe out the entire species. I would also note that they are by far one of the most reserved races, and they would have plenty of time to observe the interactions of the Empire with other species's

Their idealogies are similar in someways, Although the Empire is fairly xenophobic but it doesn't stop them from governing Aliens.

The Tau are extremely accepting, that's the biggest difference.

That said i think there are some Battles with the Tau that the Empire could win through words rather then blood.

As for getting within the Tau home cluster? Given the superiority of the Imperial navy over the tau navy? I believe they would yes. Espeically given the usage of Particle shielding that would espeiclally negate the tau's usage of railgun based weaponry repeat shots of enough power could burn out or damage shielding conduction through out vessels certainly but when it comes to the empire firing back? Thats when things to go pieces for the tau in space.

Again, they'll have plenty of time to advance to a sufficient point of defensibility.

And in the situation you described they would retreat; as in turn their backs to an advancing Army? Did you see how the Empire handled retreating forces at Hoth? Or Kessel? Or Fondor? Shooting them in the back isn't exactly a qualm for the average stormtrooper.

You do realize how good the tau are at hiding, right?

As for Fire Warrior chain of command? My idea is just speculation like your own however given the fact their command structure as i can see it is fairly centralized there must be an existing command structure in case of such losses. However trying to figure that out during the chaos of a battle when you are having entire formations clashing with each other?

You obviously know too little to be saying anything of their chain of command, so you really should just drop this one.

I just believe that losses of their commanding officer would send forces INTO disarray, you would have them operating independently, Apart from what their original Plan was thus reducing effectiveness.

The Tau forces operating as independent units would not only be more effective, but they would add a powerful fear factor. Plasma from the shadows is a scary thing.

[The Zeonic States]

Hence me thinking if you managed to get a hit on the command center and wipe out the head fire clan boy in the field their opposition would collapse.

Nope.

Lack of Ulitity and very, very centralized command would see them fall apart.

Again, nope. You're thinking far too linear. When leadership is killed, they retreat, regroup and ambush. It's the Tau way.

Because again according to the Lexi their high command is the one dictating their infield stratagems unlike the Empire which's in field officers can seize tactical positioning and move their forces with out approval from high command, but of course the Ultimate plan comes down from High Command but the diffrence here is that the Imperial Military can operate with out High Command when the Tau Military from what i have gathered will not.

Yes, actually, it can. Unless of course you have something to prove to me that fire warrior squadrons are incapable of independent thought or that they don't have a chain of command.

Their Cadre's are invidually directed by the Tau High Command that is their weakeness.

It's also an extreme strength.

I have no doubt they could operate on their own but i have a feeling they would be a lot less successful.

A war would be become a skirmishing action and once the Empire saw success with such tactics they would start targeting command positions at the start of engagements.

Tau wars are always Skirmish actions. Their basic philosophy on defensive battles is to whittle your opponent away with sneaky tactics.

And once they start getting within sight of the Tau Home Cluster? It's all but game over for them, The Tau worlds are unqiue in Warhammer i suppose because they are not fortress worlds they are merely worlds cluttered with cities.

Assuming they'll even get that deep.


In sum, you really, really need to hush up and read about the tau some more, and not cherry-pick information from the lex.

Cherry Pick? I acknowledge their knowledge and usage of railgun based weaponry in the Fleet and their own usage of "Plasma Weaponry" I acknowledge that their forces are complimented by non Tau additions that form additional armies just as they did for the Romans.

Yes, Auxilaries. Auxilaries do a very good job when used in a very indirect fighting army.

And Sneaky Tactics? You are refering to the Lexi's statement about them not using standard Static Defenses? [/quote]
I'm referring to their military school of thought, which heavily discourages direct contact.

Launching an insurgency would be a novel tactic if the Empire came for occupation in which case after the Tau Military on the world was broken they would establish their standard garrisions and fast response garrisions and probably park a few Naval Ships in orbit. And then it would come down to either the Insurgency being blown apart in skirmish by skirmish until their forces are depleted, the Empire losing pateince and just glassing the Planet or the Imperial forces requesting reinforcements which results in the insurgency being put down.

Again, you're assuming the Tau don't have the technological capacity to hold out. The Empire will not be a first contact full force attack. There will be a first contact and it will push the tau to their technological best, because that's what you do when you meet a superior force and have the means to improve. There will be a grace period between first contact and when the actual war happens. In that time, the race that went from gunpowder using tribals to a race technologically superior to everyone else in 2000 years will be more than capable of saying "fuck you, we aren't going anywhere."

You said yourself the rest of the castes aren't Military you think they would resist occupation? Perhaps but perhaps not after all their society revolves around them being the ultimate species in the galaxy, their way being better then every other way in existance, their culture, People and etc just being better.

So everything you just said here proves that they won't give up. Like, ever. The only way they'd not fight is if there was a fair truce. Which I find far more likely than any successful invasion.

They would have to face an evident truth when the Empire began to defeat them in battle, Combine that with their rather accepting and open culture? You have annexation waiting to happen. Once the Tau military is "retreat" as you said the Empire can begin occupation and annexation, I wonder if the Tau would marvel at the Galatic Empire.

But they wouldn't, because only someone who knows jack shit about war would think that first contact would be an invasion force of size enough to wipe out the entire species. I would also note that they are by far one of the most reserved races, and they would have plenty of time to observe the interactions of the Empire with other species's

Their idealogies are similar in someways, Although the Empire is fairly xenophobic but it doesn't stop them from governing Aliens.

The Tau are extremely accepting, that's the biggest difference.

That said i think there are some Battles with the Tau that the Empire could win through words rather then blood.

As for getting within the Tau home cluster? Given the superiority of the Imperial navy over the tau navy? I believe they would yes. Espeically given the usage of Particle shielding that would espeiclally negate the tau's usage of railgun based weaponry repeat shots of enough power could burn out or damage shielding conduction through out vessels certainly but when it comes to the empire firing back? Thats when things to go pieces for the tau in space.

Again, they'll have plenty of time to advance to a sufficient point of defensibility.

And in the situation you described they would retreat; as in turn their backs to an advancing Army? Did you see how the Empire handled retreating forces at Hoth? Or Kessel? Or Fondor? Shooting them in the back isn't exactly a qualm for the average stormtrooper.

You do realize how good the tau are at hiding, right?

As for Fire Warrior chain of command? My idea is just speculation like your own however given the fact their command structure as i can see it is fairly centralized there must be an existing command structure in case of such losses. However trying to figure that out during the chaos of a battle when you are having entire formations clashing with each other?

You obviously know too little to be saying anything of their chain of command, so you really should just drop this one.

I just believe that losses of their commanding officer would send forces INTO disarray, you would have them operating independently, Apart from what their original Plan was thus reducing effectiveness.

The Tau forces operating as independent units would not only be more effective, but they would add a powerful fear factor. Plasma from the shadows is a scary thing.[/quote]

So in the event the Empire enters the Warhammer galaxy through the Eastern Fringe and begans encountering the Tau you think they will just sit there and not try to seize the Resources of an able Population? I could see First contact; Turning into a first contact war not a bit one probably just a skirmish.

But once they found the fringes of Tau Space and began encountering them? Well the Tau are accepting, The Empire is a resource and Personal Demanding entity i think Sparks would fly the second offical communication began between what i would assume to be the Imperial Military and the Tau Military.

That whole "Tau are superior to Humanity" thingie Wouldn't earn them points from folks sitting in those massive warships which are armed to the Teeth.

And the fact you expect the Empire to just Co-Exist with the Tau for the decade or three it would take their techological understanding of Imperial tech to reach anywhere useful? I really, Really doubt it.

No i find it far more likely for hostilities to break out once diffrences in culture began to be flushed out.

And Hiding from Enemies with from Heat, Mass and Other techological feats well within range of their starships? Tau Ambushes wouldn't work in situations where the imperial forces had ships in the area given the techology they could employ to find Tau forces.

So in this situation the Tau are the first species interacted with, Cultural diffrences would spark hostilities, Tau normal tactics of Ambush are defeated by Imperial tech.

Which leaves them with their other favored tactic i suppose, Smashing them in what you believe to be their weakspot with everything you have.

So i don't see where you get the notion of "they will be given the Years and Years needed to master this new techology" You do realize Hyper Matter isn't exactly stable right? More then a few ships just turned into radiated atoms when fiddling around with that stuff but Hey if the Tau want to blow up portions of their own Military during hostilities trying to match imperial tech?

I see no reason to stop such practices.

[The Grand Imperium of Man]

some body has to read a Tau codex soon.

[The Zeonic States]

some body has to read a Tau codex soon.

Probably wouldn't hurt but the Lexi served it's purpose well enough.