Best Libertarian Literature

[Augarundus]

Well, fiction.

A lot of this is subject to interpretation (which is why I included "Other" - I can't predict every book you think has a libertarian bent, so post it by all means), and the definition of "libertarian" is very broad (I probably didn't represent left-libertarianism well... so the given options are basically "best liberal literature", but w/e).

Qualifiers are:
1) Best substance
2) Best representation of libertarianism

So my top option (Lord of the Rings) has, in my opinion, the best story of any listed, but probably falls behind Atlas Shrugged in terms of conveying the message of libertarianism (insofar as Atlas Shrugged is very literal - I think Tolkein's critique of power has a better representational strategy than Rand's, insofar as it requires more interpretation, but it isn't as concrete).

There's been quite a lot written about Tolkein's political views (something to the extend of 'conservative anarchism') and a libertarian (not even necessarily "anarchocapitalist" but a broader) examination of the Lord of the Rings as a criticism of power, domination, the state, etc.

So, your opinions?

[Aggicificicerous]

You are sadly mistaken if you think writers such as Tolkein and Tolstoy support your Americo-centric concept of libertarianism.

[East Williamsburg]

You mean liberalism?

[Augarundus]

You are sadly mistaken if you think writers such as Tolkein and Tolstoy support your Americo-centric concept of libertarianism.

Cool story.

[East Williamsburg]

Anything by Thoreau.

[Augarundus]

You mean liberalism?

and the definition of "libertarian" is very broad (I probably didn't represent left-libertarianism well... so the given options are basically "best liberal literature", but w/e).

And I said that the poll doesn't provide a broad list of "libertarian literature". I invited people to post literature that is "libertarian" in the historical (proper) sense of the term.

[Farnhamia]

Well, fiction.

A lot of this is subject to interpretation (which is why I included "Other" - I can't predict every book you think has a libertarian bent, so post it by all means), and the definition of "libertarian" is very broad (I probably didn't represent left-libertarianism well... so the given options are basically "best liberal literature", but w/e).

Qualifiers are:
1) Best substance
2) Best representation of libertarianism

So my top option (Lord of the Rings) has, in my opinion, the best story of any listed, but probably falls behind Atlas Shrugged in terms of conveying the message of libertarianism (insofar as Atlas Shrugged is very literal - I think Tolkein's critique of power has a better representational strategy than Rand's, insofar as it requires more interpretation, but it isn't as concrete).

There's been quite a lot written about Tolkein's political views (something to the extend of 'conservative anarchism') and a libertarian (not even necessarily "anarchocapitalist" but a broader) examination of the Lord of the Rings as a criticism of power, domination, the state, etc.

So, your opinions?

I find this characterization of the LOTR vaguely offensive, in a vague sort of way. And putting Prof. Tolkien in the same category as Ayn Rand laughable, because, as has been said, "Two novels can change a bookish 14-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

[Libertarian California]

You are sadly mistaken if you think writers such as Tolkein and Tolstoy support your Americo-centric concept of libertarianism.

Oh no! It's the ebul Americentrism...hurr durrr Amerikans are imperialists Bush hurrr

[The Godly Nations]

Libertarianism means a whole group of usually conflicting Ideology, that includes people like Mr Chomsky to Miss Rand to South Park to several Communists.

[Libertarian California]

I'd have to say Resistance to Civil Government, 1984, and Common Sense.

[The Macabees]

Garet Garrett (e.g. The Driver) deserves mention. Also, while most of his books I know are non-fiction, Henry Hazlitt also wrote the novel Time Will Run Back. I've tried to read Atlas Shrugged once or twice, but each time I stop at 100 pages, because the writing and theme comes off as dry to me. One day I'll have to finish it. The truth is, though, I'm not familiar enough with libertarian fiction (I'm more into the non-fiction).

[Northwest Slobovia]

There's been quite a lot written about Tolkein's political views (something to the extend of 'conservative anarchism') and a libertarian (not even necessarily "anarchocapitalist" but a broader) examination of the Lord of the Rings as a criticism of power, domination, the state, etc.

Which is why at the end one man was crowned king of all men...?

[Farnhamia]

I'd have to say Resistance to Civil Government, 1984, and Common Sense.

You don't have to say anything, brother, don't let them coerce you!

[The Godly Nations]

You are sadly mistaken if you think writers such as Tolkein and Tolstoy support your Americo-centric concept of libertarianism.

Oh no! It's the ebul Americentrism...hurr durrr Amerikans are imperialists Bush hurrr

Libertarianism is not a single ideology, even within America- do you mean Socialist Libertarianism?

[Augarundus]

I find this characterization of the LOTR vaguely offensive, in a vague sort of way. And putting Prof. Tolkien in the same category as Ayn Rand laughable, because, as has been said, "Two novels can change a bookish 14-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

1) "Vaguely offensive" in a "vague sort of way"?
What's wrong with it?

2) I didn't put him in the same category as Ayn Rand. I believe I even said in my OP that LOTR surpassed any on the list (IMO) in terms of 'content' (literary value). I said that Atlas Shrugged is more explicitly ideological, so it is surpassed by LOTR by being of substantially worse writing.

3) That's an old joke, and please don't threadjack by ranting about how much you hate Ayn Rand. I realize she's a woman idiot, but you can actually try to contribute.

[Aggicificicerous]

You mean liberalism?

Lord of the Rings still has nothing to do with that.

[The Godly Nations]

There's been quite a lot written about Tolkein's political views (something to the extend of 'conservative anarchism') and a libertarian (not even necessarily "anarchocapitalist" but a broader) examination of the Lord of the Rings as a criticism of power, domination, the state, etc.

Which is why at the end one man was crowned king of all men...?

Obviously Tolkein was an Anarcho-Monarchist.

[Cvtopia]

Atlas Shrugged.

[Patriqvinia]

I'm going to have to say Heinlein because I haven't gotten around to actually reading LOTR yet and I think Rand is overly verbose and at times, rather silly.

I have read Heinlein's For Us, the Living: A Comedy of Customs and Starship Troopers.

You may want to check out We by Yevgeny Zamyatin. From what I've read on him, it's not entirely clear whether he could fit either as strictly a "left-libertarian" or "right-libertarian," but he was definitely highly individualistic.

You are sadly mistaken if you think writers such as Tolkein and Tolstoy support your Americo-centric concept of libertarianism.

He didn't say that anywhere.

[The Godly Nations]

What is meant by Libertarianism, because I could recomend Marx because some Libertarians are Marxists.

[Cameroi]

her majesty's bucketeers. i forget the author.

[Aggicificicerous]

You are sadly mistaken if you think writers such as Tolkein and Tolstoy support your Americo-centric concept of libertarianism.

He didn't say that anywhere.

What he said was

(I probably didn't represent left-libertarianism well....)

Left-libertarianism is traditionally an increase in personal freedoms, so if he had left that little clause out I wouldn't have made as big a deal, although Tolkein really does not belong with libertarians of any sort.

[Augarundus]

Libertarianism means a whole group of usually conflicting Ideology, that includes people like Mr Chomsky to Miss Rand to South Park to several Communists.

My OP assumed this. That's why I welcome anyone of the broad "libertarian" (more accurately, libertarian and liberal) traditions to post literature.

Left wing libertarians (most of the people who like Tolstoy, tbh) are just as welcome as anarchocapitalists to post fiction they think is exemplary of their philosophies.

I'd have to say Resistance to Civil Government, 1984, and Common Sense.

goddammit, forgot 1984.

There's been quite a lot written about Tolkein's political views (something to the extend of 'conservative anarchism') and a libertarian (not even necessarily "anarchocapitalist" but a broader) examination of the Lord of the Rings as a criticism of power, domination, the state, etc.

Which is why at the end one man was crowned king of all men...?

I mean, sure; it's not explicitly anarchocapitalist (nor was Tolkein an anarchocapitalist).

But Tolkein wrote (and LOTR was interpreted by scholars to support this thesis) about how LOTR was a criticism of the concept of power (that is, the Ring symbolizes power). Tolkein explicitly said that his political views leaned towards philosophical anarchism/unlimited absolute monarchism (whatever the hell that means), and that he thought the abolition of power was the desired end of politics.

What is meant by Libertarianism, because I could recomend Marx because some Libertarians are Marxists.

That's fine. Only, this thread is aimed at libertarian literary fiction in particular.

What I mean by "libertarian" is "libertarian". I am not defining libertarian to justify "right-wing" liberal traditions or "left-wing" libertarian ones. I ask for literature under the broadest definition.

[Faolinn]

I'm not certain, but definitely not Ayne Rand.Her prose is dull and her ideas appalling.

[Farnhamia]

I find this characterization of the LOTR vaguely offensive, in a vague sort of way. And putting Prof. Tolkien in the same category as Ayn Rand laughable, because, as has been said, "Two novels can change a bookish 14-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

1) "Vaguely offensive" in a "vague sort of way"?
What's wrong with it?

2) I didn't put him in the same category as Ayn Rand. I believe I even said in my OP that LOTR surpassed any on the list (IMO) in terms of 'content' (literary value). I said that Atlas Shrugged is more explicitly ideological, so it is surpassed by LOTR by being of substantially worse writing.

3) That's an old joke, and please don't threadjack by ranting about how much you hate Ayn Rand. I realize she's a woman idiot, but you can actually try to contribute.

1) Because LOTR is a fantasy that was never claimed by its author to bear any resemblance to reality, whereas Atlas Shrugged and all of Rand's "fiction" is just thinly-disguised polemics.

2) My bad, I misunderstood.

3) Tough. It's as cogent a characterization as I've heard, but you're right, the thread is not about Ayn Rand.