The Ace Combat Series - You A Fan?

[YellowApple]

The flight attendant (actually pilot, iirc) was confirmed to be the same as AC2's Nagasae.

If we're going by wiki articles, then AC5 Nagasae and AC2 Nagasae have different birth years. :p

Which I already addressed (Razgriz!Nagase, in my theory, forged her birth records to look like an Osean national instead of an Usean war veteran).

Not to mention that (at least per the wiki, though it's been too long since I've played AC2 to remember if this is actually the case) they share the same callsign.

[The balkens]

Going to be playing ACZ drunk next.

i can already see myself yelling in slurred speech at PJ.

"You have terrible aim......"

"Not impressing me."

"YOU CALL THAT GOOD FLYING!? GOD I AM SO GLAD THAT YOU DIE OF A LASER TO THE FACE!"

[Licana]

Which I already addressed (Razgriz!Nagase, in my theory, forged her birth records to look like an Osean national instead of an Usean war veteran).

Not to mention that (at least per the wiki, though it's been too long since I've played AC2 to remember if this is actually the case) they share the same callsign.

I'm not seeing the point of why, especially when she had already retired and was apparently living out her dreams by the time of AC04.

So she stops flying civilian airliners, enters another nation under a fake identity that is at least 10 years younger than her actual identity (with the same name and, later, even the same combat TAC name!) to rejoin another air force to do the same shit she already retired from?

Yeah, not seeing it.

[San-Silvacian]

The flight attendant (actually pilot, iirc) was confirmed to be the same as AC2's Nagasae.

If we're going by wiki articles, then AC5 Nagasae and AC2 Nagasae have different birth years.

Which I already addressed (Razgriz!Nagase, in my theory, forged her birth records to look like an Osean national instead of an Usean war veteran).

Not to mention that (at least per the wiki, though it's been too long since I've played AC2 to remember if this is actually the case) they share the same callsign.

or maybe the fact that Nagasae is a cool sounding Japanese name and it happens to appear twice.

But hey what fun is it to link together two things that totally don't go together.

[Transnapastain]

Which I already addressed (Razgriz!Nagase, in my theory, forged her birth records to look like an Osean national instead of an Usean war veteran).

Not to mention that (at least per the wiki, though it's been too long since I've played AC2 to remember if this is actually the case) they share the same callsign.

or maybe the fact that Nagasae is a cool sounding Japanese name and it happens to appear twice.

But hey what fun is it to link together two things that totally don't go together.

[Monfrox]

What about the Flight Attendant in AC4?

Said flight-attendant-turned-pilot (though she was apparently an actual pilot, which makes a bit more sense for an airliner hiring Usean aces as employees) is already lumped into Scarface!Nagase's Acepedia article (and I think it's either canon or at least semi-canon that they're the same person).

Oh cool

[YellowApple]

Which I already addressed (Razgriz!Nagase, in my theory, forged her birth records to look like an Osean national instead of an Usean war veteran).

Not to mention that (at least per the wiki, though it's been too long since I've played AC2 to remember if this is actually the case) they share the same callsign.

I'm not seeing the point of why, especially when she had already retired and was apparently living out her dreams by the time of AC04.

So she stops flying civilian airliners, enters another nation under a fake identity that is at least 10 years younger than her actual identity (with the same name and, later, even the same combat TAC name!) to rejoin another air force to do the same shit she already retired from?

Yeah, not seeing it.

Perhaps she only thought that flying on a civilian airliner was her dream until the events of AC04, when - experiencing the helplessness of being a civilian under attack by fighters, and witnessing the badassery that is Mobius One - decided that hey, maybe she was meant to be a fighter pilot after all?

In other words, it would have resulted in her questioning whether or not retirement was worth knowing that there were plenty of civilians - whose shoes she now wore - who weren't nearly as lucky as she was, and that she had opted to relax on a passenger jet instead of defending the innocent or whatever quasi-pacifist bullshit schitck she decided to adopt as her ideology by the time AC5 happened.

Which I already addressed (Razgriz!Nagase, in my theory, forged her birth records to look like an Osean national instead of an Usean war veteran).

Not to mention that (at least per the wiki, though it's been too long since I've played AC2 to remember if this is actually the case) they share the same callsign.

or maybe the fact that Nagasae is a cool sounding Japanese name and it happens to appear twice.

But hey what fun is it to link together two things that totally don't go together.

Right, but why make the name exactly identical (Kei Nagase) with the exact same callsign ("Edge") with a very similar appearance ("caucasian", brown eyes, dark hair, petite build) and both being (supposedly-)accomplished fighter pilots if there wasn't meant to be a very obvious connection?

Basically, dismissing this as "two things that totally don't go together" is, in my belief, an inaccurate presumption when the only difference between the two characters is a birthdate discrepancy that can easily and realistically be explained (and the fact that one is 3D-rendered and the other isn't, but whatever). It would be one thing if they both only happened to share the same name, or only happened to share the same callsign, or only happened to both be brown-eyed pale-skinned dark-haired ladies, but all of these things are true simultaneously.

It's certainly more plausible than the alternate explanations of the similarities (such as Razgriz!Nagase being the daughter of Scarface!Nagase - the age implications would be cringeworthy at best - or them being sisters or cousins or something, which would make the shared forename really weird), and there are way too many similarities for them to be mere coincidence.

[Licana]

Perhaps she only thought that flying on a civilian airliner was her dream until the events of AC04, when - experiencing the helplessness of being a civilian under attack by fighters, and witnessing the badassery that is Mobius One - decided that hey, maybe she was meant to be a fighter pilot after all?

In other words, it would have resulted in her questioning whether or not retirement was worth knowing that there were plenty of civilians - whose shoes she now wore - who weren't nearly as lucky as she was, and that she had opted to relax on a passenger jet instead of defending the innocent or whatever quasi-pacifist bullshit schitck she decided to adopt as her ideology by the time AC5 happened.

Cool, didn't answer why she went through all of this retarded hoop-jumping to create a paper-thin fake identity (that by all counts should have been figured out the very moment she gained any degree of prominence) to join a foreign nation's air force as a fake national of that nation, especially when she both could not have known a war was coming to Osea before putting all of this into action. Knowing that, she could have just gone back to the FAC's air force, or joined up with ISAF during the events of AC04 afterward using her past credentials.

[Transnapastain]

We all known Nagase only signed up for the college money, like the rest of those Osean Air Force twats.

[YellowApple]

Perhaps she only thought that flying on a civilian airliner was her dream until the events of AC04, when - experiencing the helplessness of being a civilian under attack by fighters, and witnessing the badassery that is Mobius One - decided that hey, maybe she was meant to be a fighter pilot after all?

In other words, it would have resulted in her questioning whether or not retirement was worth knowing that there were plenty of civilians - whose shoes she now wore - who weren't nearly as lucky as she was, and that she had opted to relax on a passenger jet instead of defending the innocent or whatever quasi-pacifist bullshit schitck she decided to adopt as her ideology by the time AC5 happened.

Cool, didn't answer why she went through all of this retarded hoop-jumping to create a paper-thin fake identity (that by all counts should have been figured out the very moment she gained any degree of prominence) to join a foreign nation's air force as a fake national of that nation, especially when she both could not have known a war was coming to Osea before putting all of this into action. Knowing that, she could have just gone back to the FAC's air force, or joined up with ISAF during the events of AC04 afterward using her past credentials.

This is the Kei Nagase of Razgriz; do you really expect her to display any semblance of intelligent thought?

Regardless, there are many potential reasons for taking such a seemingly-convoluted approach. Perhaps the FAC won't allow her to re-enlist after having formally retired (maybe due to some kind of bureaucratic red tape pertaining to retirement pension double-dipping or somesuch)? Or perhaps some other bureaucratic restrictions about her having technically been a mercenary during the events of AC2? There probably wouldn't have been much of a point to enlisting with ISAF; Mobius One would have ended that particular war long before she'd have been able to be retrained as a fighter pilot, leaving minimal reason for her to be hired at that point.

But she paid attention to the history books in school. She figured that the way the Belkan War ended - Belka nuking its own people immediately before it rolled over and signed a cease-fire - was suspicious, and thus suspected that she could weasel herself into the right place and time to make a positive difference should her suspicions be confirmed. Or perhaps she really did want to be an astronaut, and figured signing on with the Oseans was the best way to get a spot on an Osean spaceship. Maybe she just didn't want to draw a lot of attention to herself with all the medals and crap she probably earned as a Scarface member, thus warranting her charade as some starry-eyed recruit. Maybe she wanted to eventually train other pilots and start a legacy of sorts, but didn't get that far before Sand Island was attacked. Maybe there's an Osean college that she liked and that signing on with the Oseans meant getting an automatic scholarship there. Maybe she just liked the scenery at Sand Island. Maybe she just likes birds. Maybe she picked a country at random and it happened to be Osea.

Meanwhile, the paper-thin identity seems to have worked brilliantly; I'm sure there are plenty of folks in the Osean air force who - just like you - figure it to be "too obvious" to be a real connection. Or maybe they don't really care all that much, or don't have Usean personnel records to compare her to.

Whatever the case, there are far more possibilities for a Kei Nagase == Kei Nagase theory than there are for believing them to be separate characters, and there's far more evidence for the former than there is for the latter.

[San-Silvacian]

There is someone who looks like me, has my entire same name, and is a few years older than me.

Even has my same interests and likenesses as me.

Really if this can happen IRL this can happen anywhere.

[USNER]

1) Maybe the pacifism is a facade to hide her true skills as a fighter pilot.
2) I've been wanting to post this for a long time. I know you're all going to hate me for this, but, GO DANCE WITH THE ANGELS!!!!

[Transnapastain]

1) Maybe the pacifism is a facade to hide her true skills as a fighter pilot.
2) I've been wanting to post this for a long time. I know you're all going to hate me for this, but, GO DANCE WITH THE ANGELS!!!!

You do that again, and forget the Journey Home, you're taking a Journey to the Ban-list.

[Licana]

This is the Kei Nagase of Razgriz; do you really expect her to display any semblance of intelligent thought?

Yet, she wouldn't have been able to pull this off without a semblance of intellect, and if she had that she wouldn't have done this in the first place.

There probably wouldn't have been much of a point to enlisting with ISAF; Mobius One would have ended that particular war long before she'd have been able to be retrained as a fighter pilot, leaving minimal reason for her to be hired at that point.

Retraining period? She was an accomplished fighter pilot of a previous war, it wouldn't have been that long. This wasn't even half way through the war, so she had plenty of time for a crash course.

But she paid attention to the history books in school. She figured that the way the Belkan War ended - Belka nuking its own people immediately before it rolled over and signed a cease-fire - was suspicious, and thus suspected that she could weasel herself into the right place and time to make a positive difference should her suspicions be confirmed.

First off, calling a cease fire after you're very handily losing isn't suspicious at all, especially after extremists detonated nukes on your own soil.

Secondly, you're showing her as possessing a semblance of intellect.

Or perhaps she really did want to be an astronaut, and figured signing on with the Oseans was the best way to get a spot on an Osean spaceship. Maybe she just didn't want to draw a lot of attention to herself with all the medals and crap she probably earned as a Scarface member, thus warranting her charade as some starry-eyed recruit.

This is based purely on conjecture. Also, she didn't seem to want it that badly if she was unwilling to use her previous accolades and accomplishments to her advantage.

Maybe she wanted to eventually train other pilots and start a legacy of sorts, but didn't get that far before Sand Island was attacked. Maybe there's an Osean college that she liked and that signing on with the Oseans meant getting an automatic scholarship there. Maybe she just liked the scenery at Sand Island. Maybe she just likes birds. Maybe she picked a country at random and it happened to be Osea.

Maybe if I pull enough rabbits out of my hat, one will have the answer!

Meanwhile, the paper-thin identity seems to have worked brilliantly; I'm sure there are plenty of folks in the Osean air force who - just like you - figure it to be "too obvious" to be a real connection. Or maybe they don't really care all that much, or don't have Usean personnel records to compare her to.

It's not that it's too obvious. It's that it's too obvious, and it would immediately fall apart on any background check. Don't tell me they wouldn't use that against her, either, what with Wardong squadron being branded as spies later. That is the exact kind of thing that would have been both easy to find out and corroborate their manufactured story. The fact that we don't hear about this is a fairly big mark against this theory. What with being a major war hero of the Usean Rebellion, I highly doubt her exploits were not well documented.

Whatever the case, there are far more possibilities for a Kei Nagase == Kei Nagase theory than there are for believing them to be separate characters, and there's far more evidence for the former than there is for the latter.

Except there isn't. What's happening here is literally this:

[USNER]

1) Maybe the pacifism is a facade to hide her true skills as a fighter pilot.
2) I've been wanting to post this for a long time. I know you're all going to hate me for this, but, GO DANCE WITH THE ANGELS!!!!

You do that again, and forget the Journey Home, you're taking a Journey to the Ban-list.

That sounds a little bit harsh Ghost Eye (Marcus Lampert-Shamrock)

[YellowApple]

There is someone who looks like me, has my entire same name, and is a few years older than me.

Even has my same interests and likenesses as me.

Really if this can happen IRL this can happen anywhere.

Right, but the difference between IRL and a fictional universe like Strangereal is that Namco has the ability to clean up some of these coincidences. Yet, they all happen to apply, and I'd venture to suspect that it was deliberate.

There probably wouldn't have been much of a point to enlisting with ISAF; Mobius One would have ended that particular war long before she'd have been able to be retrained as a fighter pilot, leaving minimal reason for her to be hired at that point.

Retraining period? She was an accomplished fighter pilot of a previous war, it wouldn't have been that long. This wasn't even half way through the war, so she had plenty of time for a crash course.

Not even halfway? This was immediately before Stonehenge was destroyed. That's pretty far beyond halfway by pretty much every measure.

But she paid attention to the history books in school. She figured that the way the Belkan War ended - Belka nuking its own people immediately before it rolled over and signed a cease-fire - was suspicious, and thus suspected that she could weasel herself into the right place and time to make a positive difference should her suspicions be confirmed.

First off, calling a cease fire after you're very handily losing isn't suspicious at all, especially after extremists detonated nukes on your own soil.

Secondly, you're showing her as possessing a semblance of intellect.

It's very suspicious. If the Belkans would rather nuke their own people than let the Allies invade, then why stop there if they didn't plan to recuperate and eventually find an effective way to exact their revenge?

Or perhaps she really did want to be an astronaut, and figured signing on with the Oseans was the best way to get a spot on an Osean spaceship. Maybe she just didn't want to draw a lot of attention to herself with all the medals and crap she probably earned as a Scarface member, thus warranting her charade as some starry-eyed recruit.

This is based purely on conjecture. Also, she didn't seem to want it that badly if she was unwilling to use her previous accolades and accomplishments to her advantage.

Virtually everything in this debate - for or against a Kei Nagase == Kei Nagase theory - will end up being conjecture given the limited information Namco / Project ACES / etc. has provided. I'm mostly just listing possibilities.

Even so, if, say, a Chinese fighter ace decided to hop over to the USA and try to sign on with the USAF, you don't think that would be at least a little strange, to say the least? Whereas if said pilot trying to sign on is instead an American national who happens to have a knack for flying fighter jets, it wouldn't draw nearly as much suspicion.

Maybe she wanted to eventually train other pilots and start a legacy of sorts, but didn't get that far before Sand Island was attacked. Maybe there's an Osean college that she liked and that signing on with the Oseans meant getting an automatic scholarship there. Maybe she just liked the scenery at Sand Island. Maybe she just likes birds. Maybe she picked a country at random and it happened to be Osea.

Maybe if I pull enough rabbits out of my hat, one will have the answer!

Again, just listing possibilities. There are lots of possible explanations, which is my point: there are enough possible motives for anyone at all - let alone Nagase - to switch nationalities and return to a career as a fighter pilot that trying to argue "hurr durr wai wud she du dat?" is kind of silly.

Meanwhile, the paper-thin identity seems to have worked brilliantly; I'm sure there are plenty of folks in the Osean air force who - just like you - figure it to be "too obvious" to be a real connection. Or maybe they don't really care all that much, or don't have Usean personnel records to compare her to.

It's not that it's too obvious. It's that it's too obvious, and it would immediately fall apart on any background check. Don't tell me they wouldn't use that against her, either, what with Wardong squadron being branded as spies later. That is the exact kind of thing that would have been both easy to find out and corroborate their manufactured story. The fact that we don't hear about this is a fairly big mark against this theory. What with being a major war hero of the Usean Rebellion, I highly doubt her exploits were not well documented.

You're forgetting that this is the same universe where the Ustians hired a Belkan to fight the Belkans. I'm pretty sure background checks fly out the window when dramatic effect comes into play.

Not to mention that she isn't a Yuke, and never was; even if her cover was blown, it wouldn't be nearly as damning.

Whatever the case, there are far more possibilities for a Kei Nagase == Kei Nagase theory than there are for believing them to be separate characters, and there's far more evidence for the former than there is for the latter.

Except there isn't. What's happening here is literally this:

Really? So you have proof that Kei Nagase != Kei Nagase? Because so far, I haven't needed to use a hammer at all, since the peg and hole are very round at this point.

I'd wager a nice, crisp $5 bill that - should Ace Combat return to Strangereal instead of sticking to this real-Earth tangent it decided to go on - my theory will eventually be confirmed as canon (probably as some dramatic plot twist in some future game).

[Licana]

Not even halfway? This was immediately before Stonehenge was destroyed. That's pretty far beyond halfway by pretty much every measure.

Yeah, ACI had me thinking Stonehenge was earlier than it was. Regardless, she still has a full half year before the siege on farbanti. This is more than enough time to put a veteran pilot back into rotation.

It's very suspicious. If the Belkans would rather nuke their own people than let the Allies invade, then why stop there if they didn't plan to recuperate and eventually find an effective way to exact their revenge?

Or they were dropped by extremists who were puppetted by the Gray Men in order to bring the advance to standstill, as a method to end the conflict and allow them to slink into the shadows under the cover of a newer, more moderate government. Hence why there were Belkan fighters deployed to stop the bombers carrying these weapons, also likely due to the guidance of the Gray Men. For a blatantly unverifiable story presented as supporting evidence, I'd say this likely ranks far higher than Edge faked her identity to become Osean Edge because reasons.

Even so, if, say, a Chinese fighter ace decided to hop over to the USA and try to sign on with the USAF, you don't think that would be at least a little strange, to say the least? Whereas if said pilot trying to sign on is instead an American national who happens to have a knack for flying fighter jets, it wouldn't draw nearly as much suspicion.

Not really. What would be suspicious is an "American nation" that happens to have a knack for flying fighter jets turning out to actually be Chinese-born fighter ace.

What would be doubly suspicious is said Chinese fighter ace having no identifiable reason for doing this in the first place.

Again, just listing possibilities. There are lots of possible explanations, which is my point: there are enough possible motives for anyone at all - let alone Nagase - to switch nationalities and return to a career as a fighter pilot that trying to argue "hurr durr wai wud she du dat?" is kind of silly.

Arguing against things that don't make sense with "well why would they do that?" is far from silly.

You're forgetting that this is the same universe where the Ustians hired a Belkan to fight the Belkans. I'm pretty sure background checks fly out the window when dramatic effect comes into play.

Or, you know, they showed that he wasn't trying to hide anything and was just genuinely a mercenary who was looking for a paycheck. There's probably a similar story to why a Yuktobanian born pilot was leading a semi-secretive Belkan Ace Squadron that specialized in hunting down deserters.

Not to mention that she isn't a Yuke, and never was; even if her cover was blown, it wouldn't be nearly as damning.

Because people can't be spies for a nation you are fighting without having been born there. Especially when the people looking to accuse you of spying will take any shred of evidence they can find to back up their claims.

Really? So you have proof that Kei Nagase != Kei Nagase?

I don't really need it. You're the one presenting the wildcard theory here, and so far I haven't seen anything other than "well maybe if this convoluted series of things is true, then this could be possible...maybe." from your posts. The same arguments can be made for moon people secretly controlling everything that has happened for the past 40 years.

I'd wager a nice, crisp $5 bill that - should Ace Combat return to Strangereal instead of sticking to this real-Earth tangent it decided to go on - my theory will eventually be confirmed as canon (probably as some dramatic plot twist in some future game).

Except they won't return to Strangereal, because they literally can't at this point without re-releasing AC3. Hence why the last handful of games they've made have been a remake of AC2, used the Real World Geography, or have been non-canon. Strangereal is dead.

Not that it matters, because any twist involving that would have likely been patently retarded anyway.

[YellowApple]

Not even halfway? This was immediately before Stonehenge was destroyed. That's pretty far beyond halfway by pretty much every measure.

Yeah, ACI had me thinking Stonehenge was earlier than it was. Regardless, she still has a full half year before the siege on farbanti. This is more than enough time to put a veteran pilot back into rotation.

Not after a very significant faction switch like that, though. If we go with your insistence on background checks, there's no way in hell ISAF would hire someone who very well might be a Erusean spy to be armed and dangerous without some thorough investigation.

Of course, whether or not she would have been trained in time for any significant battle (the strike on Megalith would probably be more realistic as a first ISAF battle), she'd still be out of a job by 2006 when ISAF disbanded, thus still allowing her to eventually jump ship somewhere else - including to Osea.

It's very suspicious. If the Belkans would rather nuke their own people than let the Allies invade, then why stop there if they didn't plan to recuperate and eventually find an effective way to exact their revenge?

Or they were dropped by extremists who were puppetted by the Gray Men in order to bring the advance to standstill, as a method to end the conflict and allow them to slink into the shadows under the cover of a newer, more moderate government. Hence why there were Belkan fighters deployed to stop the bombers carrying these weapons, also likely due to the guidance of the Gray Men. For a blatantly unverifiable story presented as factoid, I'd say this likely ranks far higher than Edge faked her identity to become Osean Edge because reasons.

Regardless, this is still good reason to be paranoid. The fact that nukes were dropped and then, suddenly, no further conflict besides a couple of air battles and one top-secret bout with terrorists is massive bait for conspiracy theorists throughout Strangereal.

Even so, if, say, a Chinese fighter ace decided to hop over to the USA and try to sign on with the USAF, you don't think that would be at least a little strange, to say the least? Whereas if said pilot trying to sign on is instead an American national who happens to have a knack for flying fighter jets, it wouldn't draw nearly as much suspicion.

Not really. What would be suspicious is an "American nation" that happens to have a knack for flying fighter jets turning out to actually be Chinese-born fighter ace.

What would be doubly suspicious is said Chinese fighter ace having no identifiable reason for doing this in the first place.

We just haven't identified the reason yet, since there hasn't been any canon clarification for the otherwise not-easily-explained similarities between the two characters.

And even so, with the accusations flying that they were spies, they end up being moot anyway; as far as the Grey Men are concerned, Wardog (Nagase included) was shot down and presumably KIA while trying to fly away in trainers.

Again, just listing possibilities. There are lots of possible explanations, which is my point: there are enough possible motives for anyone at all - let alone Nagase - to switch nationalities and return to a career as a fighter pilot that trying to argue "hurr durr wai wud she du dat?" is kind of silly.

Arguing against things that don't make sense with "well why would they do that?" is far from silly.

It's very silly when there are actually lots of possible reasons why a character would do something.

You're forgetting that this is the same universe where the Ustians hired a Belkan to fight the Belkans. I'm pretty sure background checks fly out the window when dramatic effect comes into play.

Or, you know, they showed that he wasn't trying to hide anything and was just genuinely a mercenary who was looking for a paycheck. There's probably a similar story to why a Yuktobanian born pilot was leading a semi-secretive Belkan Ace Squadron that specialized in hunting down deserters.

Right, but it doesn't take a whole lot of competence to be able to connect two-and-two and realize "Whoa, this dude's Belkan and we're hiring him to fight Belkans; maybe - just maybe - we should reconsider having him firebomb Hoffnung? Maybe?"

Not to mention that she isn't a Yuke, and never was; even if her cover was blown, it wouldn't be nearly as damning.

Because people can't be spies for a nation you are fighting without having been born there. Especially when the people looking to accuse you of spying will take any shred of evidence they can find to back up their claims.

Sure, but - if we're going to go with your line of argumentation - why would she?

Alternately, see above; even if she was found out, it ended up being moot anyway.

Really? So you have proof that Kei Nagase != Kei Nagase?

I don't really need it. You're the one presenting the wildcard theory here, and so far I haven't seen anything other than "well maybe if this convoluted series of things is true, then this could be possible...maybe." from your posts. The same arguments can be made for moon people secretly controlling everything that has happened for the past 40 years.

Except there's zero evidence that moon people exist. Meanwhile, there's at least some apparent connection between the duplicate Kei Nagases (unless you have a better explanation for why Namco, Project ACES, et. al. would recycle every detail about a character sans nationality and birthdate instead of just creating a new character?).

[Licana]

Not after a very significant faction switch like that, though. If we go with your insistence on background checks, there's no way in hell ISAF would hire someone who very well might be a Erusean spy to be armed and dangerous without some thorough investigation.

Except she was a mercenary member of the UAF under the FAC, which was the predecessor to ISAF. There is no faction switch going on here.

Of course, whether or not she would have been trained in time for any significant battle (the strike on Megalith would probably be more realistic as a first ISAF battle), she'd still be out of a job by 2006 when ISAF disbanded, thus still allowing her to eventually jump ship somewhere else - including to Osea.

ISAF may have disbanded, but the various nations that it encompassed didn't. Joining up with their air forces wouldn't have required some convoluted changing of identities, or even a move for that matter, either.

Regardless, this is still good reason to be paranoid. The fact that nukes were dropped and then, suddenly, no further conflict besides a couple of air battles and one top-secret bout with terrorists is massive bait for conspiracy theorists throughout Strangereal.

None of that links back to Edge making nonsensical decisions though.

We just haven't identified the reason yet, since there hasn't been any canon clarification for the otherwise not-easily-explained similarities between the two characters.

There is someone who looks like me, has my entire same name, and is a few years older than me.

Even has my same interests and likenesses as me.

Really if this can happen IRL this can happen anywhere.

If you're going to argue that this doesn't apply because it's a video game and controlled universe or whatever your previous argument was to this, I hope you're prepared to argue that Edge is actually a dimension-hoping superbeing because her exact likeness and personality has shown up in Ace Combat Assault Horizon and Ace Combat Infinity.

And even so, with the accusations flying that they were spies, they end up being moot anyway; as far as the Grey Men are concerned, Wardog (Nagase included) was shot down and presumably KIA while trying to fly away in trainers.

Then promptly showed up later. Not that it matters, an organization as devoted to thoroughness as they would have to be to maintain secrecy throughout the Belkan War and the later Circum-Pacific War would not have let such a thing go unknown by the public once they wanted them outed as spies.

It's very silly when there are actually lots of possible reasons why a character would do something.

Possibilities there are far-fetched and rely on characters making really stupid decisions for reasons that are not clear will still make me ask "why would they do that?" Regardless of the number that you can think up.

Right, but it doesn't take a whole lot of competence to be able to connect two-and-two and realize "Whoa, this dude's Belkan and we're hiring him to fight Belkans; maybe - just maybe - we should reconsider having him firebomb Hoffnung? Maybe?"

Who would have thought the Mercenary fighter pilot that was okay at not only killing his country men, but also invading his own nation, would have a change of heart at one city? They probably thought he wouldn't care too much because he often watched his wingman drop Napalm on retreating belkan generals or wounded soldiers in tents.

Sure, but - if we're going to go with your line of argumentation - why would she?

I find it funny that you think I was arguing that she was actually a spy, instead of just poking holes in your statement while simultaneously stating why the fact that "she not a yuke tho!" is not a valid counterargument to my point.

Except there's zero evidence that moon people exist. Meanwhile, there's at least some apparent connection between the duplicate Kei Nagases (unless you have a better explanation for why Namco, Project ACES, et. al. would recycle every detail about a character sans nationality and birthdate instead of just creating a new character?).

Sure I have a better explanation than that.

If you're looking for an In-Universe explanation, it's because popular names exist, Edge sounds like the most generic fighter pilot call-sign ever, and sometimes the significance to connections starts and ends at "coincidence."

If you're looking for a RL explanation, it's because it's easier than conceiving and writing up a new character, and it also provides a nod to fans. Not to mention that the trend of having a Kei Nagase in every AC was going on strong for four games at that point, and (barring Zero and 6) hasn't stopped since.

[YellowApple]

Not after a very significant faction switch like that, though. If we go with your insistence on background checks, there's no way in hell ISAF would hire someone who very well might be a Erusean spy to be armed and dangerous without some thorough investigation.

Except she was a mercenary member of the UAF under the FAC, which was the predecessor to ISAF. There is no faction switch going on here.

Except that she wasn't working for Scarface by the time of the events of AC04; she was working for a Erusean airline. So there was a faction switch, at least on paper, necessitating another one in order to switch to ISAF affiliation.

Of course, whether or not she would have been trained in time for any significant battle (the strike on Megalith would probably be more realistic as a first ISAF battle), she'd still be out of a job by 2006 when ISAF disbanded, thus still allowing her to eventually jump ship somewhere else - including to Osea.

ISAF may have disbanded, but the various nations that it encompassed didn't. Joining up with their air forces wouldn't have required some convoluted changing of identities, or even a move for that matter, either.

Unless there were complications due to having "retired" previously, as I suggested before.

Regardless, this is still good reason to be paranoid. The fact that nukes were dropped and then, suddenly, no further conflict besides a couple of air battles and one top-secret bout with terrorists is massive bait for conspiracy theorists throughout Strangereal.

None of that links back to Edge making nonsensical decisions though.

Nonsensical people tend to like conspiracy theories.

Hint. Hint.

We just haven't identified the reason yet, since there hasn't been any canon clarification for the otherwise not-easily-explained similarities between the two characters.

There is someone who looks like me, has my entire same name, and is a few years older than me.

Even has my same interests and likenesses as me.

Really if this can happen IRL this can happen anywhere.

If you're going to argue that this doesn't apply because it's a video game and controlled universe or whatever your previous argument was to this, I hope you're prepared to argue that Edge is actually a dimension-hoping superbeing because her exact likeness and personality has shown up in Ace Combat Assault Horizon and Ace Combat Infinity.

AC:AH and AC:I take place in a different universe; as far as I'm concerned, they're irrelevant to what's going on in Strangereal. Earth!Nagase could be a space monkey from Venus for all I care; it has zero bearing on Strangereal!Nagase.

And even so, with the accusations flying that they were spies, they end up being moot anyway; as far as the Grey Men are concerned, Wardog (Nagase included) was shot down and presumably KIA while trying to fly away in trainers.

Then promptly showed up later. Not that it matters, an organization as devoted to thoroughness as they would have to be to maintain secrecy throughout the Belkan War and the later Circum-Pacific War would not have let such a thing go unknown by the public once they wanted them outed as spies.

But you're missing the point: why bother with that when - as far as the Grey Men are concerned - they're no longer a threat? The Grey Men figured them to be dead; that left far more pressing matters to worry about. By the time the Grey Men actually catch on that Wardog wasn't actually killed, Wardog (now Razgriz) is well underway in doing their part to prove that the whole war was fabricated and - eventually - that the Belkans were behind it. The rather-weak accusations of "OMG NAGASE IS SPY!" would basically boil down to a silly he-said-she-said that doesn't actually benefit the Grey Men - especially when her actual nationality isn't something especially damning (like being a Yuke national).

It's very silly when there are actually lots of possible reasons why a character would do something.

Possibilities there are far-fetched and rely on characters making really stupid decisions for reasons that are not clear will still make me ask "why would they do that?" Regardless of the number that you can think up.

My point is that there are lots of possibilities, and that there's more evidence in favor of such a theory than there is against at this point. Any case in either direction will require speculation given the relative lack of canon to compare with.

Right, but it doesn't take a whole lot of competence to be able to connect two-and-two and realize "Whoa, this dude's Belkan and we're hiring him to fight Belkans; maybe - just maybe - we should reconsider having him firebomb Hoffnung? Maybe?"

Who would have thought the Mercenary fighter pilot that was okay at not only killing his country men, but also invading his own nation, would have a change of heart at one city? They probably thought he wouldn't care too much because he often watched his wingman drop Napalm on retreating belkan generals or wounded soldiers in tents.

That depends on how you played AC0. If you went the Knight route (like I usually do), then your argument is entirely invalid.

And even if you did go the Mercenary route, it still doesn't address my point: that literally everyone involved in the hiring process should have had at least some inkling of doubt when a Belkan merc applies to fight his own comrades for the same reasons why the Oseans - per your argument - should be suspicious of a non-Osean forging her birth records to fly Osean fighter jets, if not for more reasons.

Sure, but - if we're going to go with your line of argumentation - why would she?

I find it funny that you think I was arguing that she was actually a spy, instead of just poking holes in your statement while simultaneously stating why the fact that "she not a yuke tho!" is not a valid counterargument to my point.

By "your line of argumentation", I meant your incessant asking of "why?" for every little detail.

Except there's zero evidence that moon people exist. Meanwhile, there's at least some apparent connection between the duplicate Kei Nagases (unless you have a better explanation for why Namco, Project ACES, et. al. would recycle every detail about a character sans nationality and birthdate instead of just creating a new character?).

Sure I have a better explanation than that.

If you're looking for an In-Universe explanation, it's because popular names exist, Edge sounds like the most generic fighter pilot call-sign ever, and sometimes the significance to connections starts and ends at "coincidence."

If you're looking for a RL explanation, it's because it's easier than conceiving and writing up a new character, and it also provides a nod to fans.

Having Scarface!Nagase be involved in AC04 is already a pretty huge nod to the fans. Yanking the same exact character immediately afterward is incredibly cheap and redundant, and I reckon that Namco was aware of that when they made such a decision.

Not to mention that the trend of having a Kei Nagase in every AC was going on strong for four games at that point, and (barring Zero and 6) hasn't stopped since.

As I mentioned above, the non-Strangereal Ace Combats don't really matter, since they take place in a different universe; as far as I care, those Kei Nagases are just Easter Eggs and nothing more.

This leaves the Nagase of AC3, for which there's virtually zero information whatsoever other than having flown for Ouroborous. We don't even really know the gender, nationality, birthdate, etc. As far as I'm concerned, this is more likely to be a different character.

[Gaiserin]

We all known Nagase only signed up for the college money, like the rest of those Osean Air Force twats.

Clearly, Choppers death wasn't caused by the crash but rather the unfortunate fact that he couldn't afford health insurance.

[Licana]

Except that she wasn't working for Scarface by the time of the events of AC04; she was working for a Erusean airline. So there was a faction switch, at least on paper, necessitating another one in order to switch to ISAF affiliation.

The one that delivered Stonehonge engineers to ISAF and thereby was critical in the loss of their superweapon and the eventual loss of Erusia itself. I'm sure being part of a civilian transport corporation based out of Erusia would render that irrelevant.

Sorry, no. This is asinine even by paranoid standards.

Unless there were complications due to having "retired" previously, as I suggested before.

I'm sure all of the various nations that made up ISAF all collectively would turn her down for having previously served in a disbanded organization because reasons.

Nonsensical people tend to like conspiracy theories.

Hint. Hint.

Nonsensical people tend to fabricate nonsensical conspiracy theories.

Hint. Hint.

AC:AH and AC:I take place in a different universe; as far as I'm concerned, they're irrelevant to what's going on in Strangereal. Earth!Nagase could be a space monkey from Venus for all I care; it has zero bearing on Strangereal!Nagase.

Nope, they're the same person. They even look the same and all! What more proof does anyone need?

Nagase is obviously a 5th dimensional warrior, travelling between dimensions to win wars through her incessant whingeing.

But you're missing the point: why bother with that when - as far as the Grey Men are concerned - they're no longer a threat?

I have spelled this out in almost literally every post itt.

The Grey Men figured them to be dead; that left far more pressing matters to worry about. By the time the Grey Men actually catch on that Wardog wasn't actually killed, Wardog (now Razgriz) is well underway in doing their part to prove that the whole war was fabricated and - eventually - that the Belkans were behind it. The rather-weak accusations of "OMG NAGASE IS SPY!" would basically boil down to a silly he-said-she-said that doesn't actually benefit the Grey Men - especially when her actual nationality isn't something especially damning (like being a Yuke national).

The "rather weak" accusation would go a long way to 'proving' their accusations of spying across all of Wardong squadron, and would have been been useful in further discrediting their image after their death. It's literally handing them something that corroborates their fabrication perfectly, why would they not use it? "bc they ded mannnnnnn" is a retarded answer.

It is far from pointless, regardless of where the fuck she actually comes from. How is this so hard to get?

My point is that there are lots of possibilities, and that there's more evidence in favor of such a theory than there is against at this point. Any case in either direction will require speculation given the relative lack of canon to compare with.

If by evidence you mean convoluted fabrications, then sure.

The speculation required in thinking AC2 Nagase and AC5 Nagase are separate people is rather simple, believable and sane.

That depends on how you played AC0. If you went the Knight route (like I usually do), then your argument is entirely invalid.

Knights are fgts, just look at Indigo Squadron.

And even if you did go the Mercenary route, it still doesn't address my point: that literally everyone involved in the hiring process should have had at least some inkling of doubt when a Belkan merc applies to fight his own comrades for the same reasons why the Oseans - per your argument - should be suspicious of a non-Osean forging her birth records to fly Osean fighter jets, if not for more reasons.

Considering that he was likely hired with Ustio on its last legs and having obviously earned a reputation as an effective mercenary pilot willing to fight his countrymen (see mission one of AC0), I hardly think the inkling of doubt would have shown any mark against him. Being up-front about his Origins and sincere in his intent probably helped him out a long way. Additionally, they may not have had much of a choice, if Ustio hired from a mercenary firm as opposed to individual pilots on a case-by-case basis.

This is as opposed to someone who is fabricating their identity to pose as an Osean national within the air force for no discernible reason.

By "your line of argumentation", I meant your incessant asking of "why?" for every little detail.

Hmm, it's almost as if such minor details as basic motive, possessing a degree of sense, and making sure things are thought out on a basic level are important.

Having Scarface!Nagase be involved in AC04 is already a pretty huge nod to the fans. Yanking the same exact character immediately afterward is incredibly cheap and redundant

Welcome to Namco Bandai.

This leaves the Nagase of AC3, for which there's virtually zero information whatsoever other than having flown for Ouroborous. We don't even really know the gender, nationality, birthdate, etc. As far as I'm concerned, this is more likely to be a different character.

Nah, they wouldn't just use a character's name without reason! Don't you see, they're obviously the same person.

[Gaiserin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1VtuBzUUso
Good things.

By the way, I noted this bit funny coincidence concerning the whole Cipher/Mobius theory.

Cipher's canon-aircraft was F-15, Mobius's aircraft was F-22.

Break 15 into 1 and 5.
15+5=21
21+1=22.

Hench, F-22.

[Monfrox]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1VtuBzUUso
Good things.

By the way, I noted this bit funny coincidence concerning the whole Cipher/Mobius theory.

Cipher's canon-aircraft was F-15, Mobius's aircraft was F-22.

Break 15 into 1 and 5.
15+5=21
21+1=22.

Hench, F-22.

HL3 confirmed

[Gaiserin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1VtuBzUUso
Good things.

By the way, I noted this bit funny coincidence concerning the whole Cipher/Mobius theory.

Cipher's canon-aircraft was F-15, Mobius's aircraft was F-22.

Break 15 into 1 and 5.
15+5=21
21+1=22.

Hench, F-22.

HL3 confirmed

We can only wish.