The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra Thread

[Forsher]

Outdated ideas.

To be fair, it would have worked if the other plan hadn't been in action.

[Jaslandia]

Outdated ideas.

Everyone knows Patrick Star was one of the greatest Avatars of all time. *nods*

[Ameriganastan]

Outdated ideas.

Everyone knows Patrick Star was one of the greatest Avatars of all time. *nods*

People still tell tales of his epic battle with The Ugly Barnacle.

[New haven america]

Outdated ideas.

It has been proven time and time again, thanks to great Avatar Patrick, why is Opal so doubtful?

[The Flood]

Everyone knows Patrick Star was one of the greatest Avatars of all time. *nods*

People still tell tales of his epic battle with The Ugly Barnacle.

Surely anyone who can overcome an enemy who is so ugly that everyone died is a legendary hero, and the greatest Avatar of all time!

[The Metal Clan of Zaofu]

NOOOOO SHE CAPTURED MY PRECIOUS NATION! WHY COULDNT YOU JUST FREAKING SMASH HER KORRA!

[Page]

Does anyone else think Korra's weird ass hallucination looks like some creepy ghost from a J-horror movie?

[Alaizia]

Outdated ideas.

It has been proven time and time again, thanks to great Avatar Patrick, why is Opal so doubtful?

I don't know. She probably can't even light a campfire at the bottom of the sea.

[Reploid Productions]

Does anyone else think Korra's weird ass hallucination looks like some creepy ghost from a J-horror movie?

Considering that the creators are admitted anime fans, I wouldn't be surprised to find they'd also taken some inspiration from Japanese horror films, too. There is a lot of overlap between anime fandom and J-horror fandom.

And good grief, even KNOWING that it was way too early in the season for Kuvira to get wrecked, that Korra was 3 years out of practice at bending (especially for combat,) and still pretty clearly NOT magically over her pretty damned extreme PTSD, that fight was just painful to watch. I really, REALLY wanted to see Korra get back in the groove and lay the smackdown on that smug bitch.

What I'm saying is that they've done a really amazing job of making Kuvira a really good villain, the kind who you can appreciate and hate all at the same time.

[Jaslandia]

What I'm saying is that they've done a really amazing job of making Kuvira a really good villain, the kind who you can appreciate and hate all at the same time.

Not surprising. Among other things, the writers of A:TLA/LoK are really good are creating interesting villains: Azula, Zuko, Long Feng, Sozin, Hama, Amon, Zaheer, and now Kuvira.

Also, I read that Kuvira was Bryke's favorite villain to make, so that may have something to do with it.

[Reploid Productions]

What I'm saying is that they've done a really amazing job of making Kuvira a really good villain, the kind who you can appreciate and hate all at the same time.

Not surprising. Among other things, the writers of A:TLA/LoK are really good are creating interesting villains: Azula, Zuko, Long Feng, Sozin, Hama, Amon, Zaheer, and now Kuvira.

Also, I read that Kuvira was Bryke's favorite villain to make, so that may have something to do with it.

No kidding. And man, that was a nice subtle callback to the first series when Kuvira was talking about spreading Zaofu's advancements and sharing them... sounded an awful lot like Sozin's reasoning for starting the war from the first series. "We're so awesome, we should share our awesomeness with everybody else- by force if necessary!"

[Ameriganastan]

And good grief, even KNOWING that it was way too early in the season for Kuvira to get wrecked, that Korra was 3 years out of practice at bending (especially for combat,) and still pretty clearly NOT magically over her pretty damned extreme PTSD, that fight was just painful to watch. I really, REALLY wanted to see Korra get back in the groove and lay the smackdown on that smug bitch.

Excuses, excuses...

What I'm saying is that they've done a really amazing job of making Kuvira a really good villain, the kind who you can appreciate and hate all at the same time.

She's just a generic dictator character. Nothing more.

[Schwabenreich]

.Excuses, excuses...

Legitimate ones.. That is the idea of an excuse, they excuse things.

She's just a generic dictator character. Nothing more.

Agree here. They could have made her a way better antagonist by removing the kick the dog moments and the actions she's done for the evils. It would have been perfect if her goal was just 'unite the earth kingdom' and everything she did was for that goal. It is hard to explain away why she continues to use forced labour when it isn't particularly efficient and why she thought it was a great idea to force Varrick to work for her even if you ignore the meanness of it it's not really smart. The re-education camps are inexcusable. The only way I could possibly explain it is that there is a trend of these things happening within the earth kingdom and so she isn't asking the people to do anything they haven't done for previous leadership but she is meant to be above that.

TLDR: I wish she was more of a neutral antagonist rather than a villain. Making her do villainous things betrays my high expectations of the character.

[Rich and Corporations]

I want a follow-up series on the wacky adventures of Varrick.

TLDR: I wish she was more of a neutral antagonist rather than a villain. Making her do villainous things betrays my high expectations of the character.

Slave labor is nuts. I wish the reeduction camps were for the monarchists, a legitimate and likely dissident group.

[Forsher]

I want a follow-up series on the wacky adventures of Varrick.

TLDR: I wish she was more of a neutral antagonist rather than a villain. Making her do villainous things betrays my high expectations of the character.

Slave labor is nuts. I wish the reeduction camps were for the monarchists, a legitimate and likely dissident group.

When you're a bad guy, all dissidents are legitimate.

The Adventures of Varrick would be fun though.

[Ameriganastan]

Legitimate ones.. That is the idea of an excuse, they excuse things.

Yeah, yeah. It's never Korra's fault she sucks. It's something else...

[Forsher]

Legitimate ones.. That is the idea of an excuse, they excuse things.

Yeah, yeah. It's never Korra's fault she sucks. It's something else...

Your position is, "Korra sucks, under this reading the evidence means this" rather than "The evidence means this, therefore Korra sucks".

When you look at the series as a whole, the villain has almost always had a valid point (or, at least, one that requires more thinking), more knowledge than Korra, or both. It's difficult to make the correct decisions when the only points of reference are dubious or when information is asymmetric. In comparison, the good guys have typically seemed to be much more reflexive in their rejections and it is almost coincidental that they've been correct.

That's not to say that Korra hasn't made bad choices given what she has, herself, known but it is to say, most of the time she's made the best of what she has known.

[Ameriganastan]

Yeah, yeah. It's never Korra's fault she sucks. It's something else...

Your position is, "Korra sucks, under this reading the evidence means this" rather than "The evidence means this, therefore Korra sucks".

When you look at the series as a whole, the villain has almost always had a valid point (or, at least, one that requires more thinking), more knowledge than Korra, or both. It's difficult to make the correct decisions when the only points of reference are dubious or when information is asymmetric. In comparison, the good guys have typically seemed to be much more reflexive in their rejections and it is almost coincidental that they've been correct.

That's not to say that Korra hasn't made bad choices given what she has, herself, known but it is to say, most of the time she's made the best of what she has known.

And that has what to do with her being an incompetent screw-up, who can't win a fight unless the other guy surrenders?

[Forsher]

Your position is, "Korra sucks, under this reading the evidence means this" rather than "The evidence means this, therefore Korra sucks".

When you look at the series as a whole, the villain has almost always had a valid point (or, at least, one that requires more thinking), more knowledge than Korra, or both. It's difficult to make the correct decisions when the only points of reference are dubious or when information is asymmetric. In comparison, the good guys have typically seemed to be much more reflexive in their rejections and it is almost coincidental that they've been correct.

That's not to say that Korra hasn't made bad choices given what she has, herself, known but it is to say, most of the time she's made the best of what she has known.

And that has what to do with her being an incompetent screw-up, who can't win a fight unless the other guy surrenders?

Everything.

Imagine you're playing a game. If you cock up early on, it's a lot harder to do well later on. If it's something like AOEIII, getting attacked ten minutes earlier and losing much of your base means that the fight right now is that much harder (in fact, it's so much harder that most players will resign if put in that situation). It's exactly the same here. The decisions that Korra has made and been put in situations to make do have an affect on her ability to do things in the now.

[Ameriganastan]

Everything.

Imagine you're playing a game. If you cock up early on, it's a lot harder to do well later on. If it's something like AOEIII, getting attacked ten minutes earlier and losing much of your base means that the fight right now is that much harder (in fact, it's so much harder that most players will resign if put in that situation). It's exactly the same here. The decisions that Korra has made and been put in situations to make do have an affect on her ability to do things in the now.

Again, excuses.

I've kinda just given up hope on anyone but me realizing Korra is a failure. Considering this show is almost over, I'm losing the motivation to debate it anymore.

[Marcurix]

Everything.

Imagine you're playing a game. If you cock up early on, it's a lot harder to do well later on. If it's something like AOEIII, getting attacked ten minutes earlier and losing much of your base means that the fight right now is that much harder (in fact, it's so much harder that most players will resign if put in that situation). It's exactly the same here. The decisions that Korra has made and been put in situations to make do have an affect on her ability to do things in the now.

Again, excuses.

I've kinda just given up hope on anyone but me realizing Korra is a failure. Considering this show is almost over, I'm losing the motivation to debate it anymore.

That's...cartoonishly stubborn.

And for the record, you don't debate. You go "no she's a fuck up" and either leave or change the subject in a manner that brings to mind Eric Cartman.

[Rich and Corporations]

That's...cartoonishly stubborn.

I've written him off as one of those monsters who live under bridges, tolling people.

[Reploid Productions]

<snip for brevity>

That's nice, Ameri.

The thing with Kuvira that does make me wonder is whether she started out with good intentions, became disillusioned between the prince being such an idiot and people not immediately seeing the rightness and good intentions of her cause, and then went in the direction of the well-intentioned extremist; or whether she's had this megalomaniacal streak all along and just did a really good job hiding it until the opportunity presented itself. I'm kinda leaning toward the former, given she initially was really behind the idea of Suyin stepping up to lead and fix the utter mess the queen had made of the Earth Kingdom prior to the assassination. Suyin refusing to do so could easily have been the start to her becoming so disillusioned; this mother figure she presumably admired and looked up to, when given a great opportunity to do a great good for the world instead refused for reasons she may not know or understand, so she jumps to conclusions.

Plus, it would be keeping with the theme already established by Toph's lecture earlier in the season about Korra's previous enemies and the idea that their viewpoints have merit. Kuvira's goal in reuniting the Earth Kingdom and that the place needs strong, stable leadership is one that has merit... but like with the villains before her, she's gotten fanatical about it. She is the only one willing to do what needs to be done, things would work so much better if only these poor, deluded fools would just see the rightness of her vision. It's terrible that she has to resort to such drastic measures, but it's really, really, truly for the greater good and the wonderful future she envisions will be worth the sacrifice.

[United States of Natan]

<snip for brevity>

That's nice, Ameri.

The thing with Kuvira that does make me wonder is whether she started out with good intentions, became disillusioned between the prince being such an idiot and people not immediately seeing the rightness and good intentions of her cause, and then went in the direction of the well-intentioned extremist; or whether she's had this megalomaniacal streak all along and just did a really good job hiding it until the opportunity presented itself. I'm kinda leaning toward the former, given she initially was really behind the idea of Suyin stepping up to lead and fix the utter mess the queen had made of the Earth Kingdom prior to the assassination. Suyin refusing to do so could easily have been the start to her becoming so disillusioned; this mother figure she presumably admired and looked up to, when given a great opportunity to do a great good for the world instead refused for reasons she may not know or understand, so she jumps to conclusions.

Plus, it would be keeping with the theme already established by Toph's lecture earlier in the season about Korra's previous enemies and the idea that their viewpoints have merit. Kuvira's goal in reuniting the Earth Kingdom and that the place needs strong, stable leadership is one that has merit... but like with the villains before her, she's gotten fanatical about it. She is the only one willing to do what needs to be done, things would work so much better if only these poor, deluded fools would just see the rightness of her vision. It's terrible that she has to resort to such drastic measures, but it's really, really, truly for the greater good and the wonderful future she envisions will be worth the sacrifice.

I agree. People can certainly become disillusioned with their goals. For all we know, Fire Lord Sozin could have originally intended to truly spread the Fire Nation's success, but became disillusioned by something, his goals were seen as imperialistic, and over time his son and grandson may have caused the original purpose of the war to become distorted, and a goal of world domination, like Fire Lord Ozai was planning when planning to take the throne of the world as the "Phoenix King". Surely Unalaq probably had good intentions in wanting to reunite the physical and spirit worlds, but became disillusioned with how much disregard humans had for them, and realized the only way was to take the throne, come to power, convince Korra to reopen the portals, and then become the first Dark Avatar, of a long line of what he envisioned to be the start of a new, Dark Avatar Cycle, which, similar to how the purpose of the Avatar was to be the bridge between the Physical and Spirit worlds, would be the guardian of spirits, or something having to do with protecting the spirits.

[Marcurix]

<snip for brevity>

That's nice, Ameri.

The thing with Kuvira that does make me wonder is whether she started out with good intentions, became disillusioned between the prince being such an idiot and people not immediately seeing the rightness and good intentions of her cause, and then went in the direction of the well-intentioned extremist; or whether she's had this megalomaniacal streak all along and just did a really good job hiding it until the opportunity presented itself. I'm kinda leaning toward the former, given she initially was really behind the idea of Suyin stepping up to lead and fix the utter mess the queen had made of the Earth Kingdom prior to the assassination. Suyin refusing to do so could easily have been the start to her becoming so disillusioned; this mother figure she presumably admired and looked up to, when given a great opportunity to do a great good for the world instead refused for reasons she may not know or understand, so she jumps to conclusions.

Plus, it would be keeping with the theme already established by Toph's lecture earlier in the season about Korra's previous enemies and the idea that their viewpoints have merit. Kuvira's goal in reuniting the Earth Kingdom and that the place needs strong, stable leadership is one that has merit... but like with the villains before her, she's gotten fanatical about it. She is the only one willing to do what needs to be done, things would work so much better if only these poor, deluded fools would just see the rightness of her vision. It's terrible that she has to resort to such drastic measures, but it's really, really, truly for the greater good and the wonderful future she envisions will be worth the sacrifice.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, as the saying goes.

Your theory is mostly likely correct, a well intentioned individual spurred into action by the chaos of her homeland and the inaction of those most able to save it-notably Suyin. Add in three years of campaign, likely filled with tough decisions and obstacles abound (betting at least one Governor of the Earth kingdom styled themselves as the new monarch), the suffering of many people and so forth it is very easy to see why Kuvira has become what she has.