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The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra Thread

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Thoughts on the series finale of Korra?

Bad
5
7%
Mediocre
10
14%
Good
4
6%
Great
23
33%
Excellent
28
40%
 
Total votes : 70

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The Flood
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Postby The Flood » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:58 pm

Reploid Productions wrote:
Charellia wrote:Zuko, however, may have accepted restrictions as a show of good faith to the other nations.

INCOMING OVERTHINKING RAMBLE! :P

Not to mention that war is resource-intensive, and this had been going on for a century, even if you assume there were plenty of lulls in the intensity of the conflict. When Aang and the others are hiding in the Fire Nation in Book 3, you can see the hints of the toll the prolonged conflict has taken on the average population in contrast to the opulence of the elite class Zuko and Azula see. I honestly don't think the Fire Nation's position and strength at the end was nearly as great as some might think. Their navy had taken a massive pounding when the force sent to the North Pole got flattened, losing several hundred (if not somewhere over a thousand) warships and untold numbers of crew. A loss that size is going to put pretty massive dent in any war effort, and is probably what thinned the Fire Nation's naval presence enough that the gang was able to find and capture a solitary warship in between books 2 and 3.

Sure, the Fire Nation had the technological advantage thanks to their navy and the steam tanks and airships, but they also wasted a TON of resources on one-shot grandiose projects that were either horribly impractical or of extremely restricted use, with the most glaring example being the drill. (Though the "Gates of Azulon" protecting the most obvious naval approach corridor into the Fire Nation is also a pretty glaring waste of resources for similarly minimal benefit.) Building and fielding that massive single-purpose machine had to have diverted sizable resources in both material and personnel from more useful and more importantly, multi-purpose tools of warfare. The steel alone was probably enough to build several new warships, or maybe an entire extra fleet of massive war balloons- the wall of Ba Sing Se could have been rendered irrelevant with an airship fleet of similar scale and power as the Fire Nation's navy, and far more effectively than using a massive one-shot device to punch a single point of entry through the outer wall. So not only did they waste all these resources on a project that failed, they also delivered an enormous bounty of quality materials that the Earth Kingdom could cannibalize at their leisure.

While I don't believe the series ever says who's brilliant idea that one was, it certainly shows the same sort of short-sighted grandiosity that Ozai's "BURN ALL THE THINGS!" plan does. Which makes sense; Ozai is an absolute monarch, and he also has no real grasp of How To War, what with being the second son and never so much as seeing a battlefield. I could easily see him in his misguided ego ordering all these impractical things thinking they are grand ideas, and in the process running an already war-ragged population to the very brink of no longer being able to sustain the war effort, or worse, no longer even being able to effectively hold all of the gained territory. A more capable tactician on the throne (for instance, Iroh, who actually KNOWS a few things about military strategy) probably could have done a much better job of managing the war effort, and I suspect prior to Ozai's successful bid for power, that Sozin and Azulon had actually done so.

I would imagine that the drill was commissioned before the Fire Nation had access to designs for war balloons, so it's not as foolish as it may have seemed.
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Jaslandia
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Postby Jaslandia » Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:37 pm

The Flood wrote:
Reploid Productions wrote:INCOMING OVERTHINKING RAMBLE! :P

Not to mention that war is resource-intensive, and this had been going on for a century, even if you assume there were plenty of lulls in the intensity of the conflict. When Aang and the others are hiding in the Fire Nation in Book 3, you can see the hints of the toll the prolonged conflict has taken on the average population in contrast to the opulence of the elite class Zuko and Azula see. I honestly don't think the Fire Nation's position and strength at the end was nearly as great as some might think. Their navy had taken a massive pounding when the force sent to the North Pole got flattened, losing several hundred (if not somewhere over a thousand) warships and untold numbers of crew. A loss that size is going to put pretty massive dent in any war effort, and is probably what thinned the Fire Nation's naval presence enough that the gang was able to find and capture a solitary warship in between books 2 and 3.

Sure, the Fire Nation had the technological advantage thanks to their navy and the steam tanks and airships, but they also wasted a TON of resources on one-shot grandiose projects that were either horribly impractical or of extremely restricted use, with the most glaring example being the drill. (Though the "Gates of Azulon" protecting the most obvious naval approach corridor into the Fire Nation is also a pretty glaring waste of resources for similarly minimal benefit.) Building and fielding that massive single-purpose machine had to have diverted sizable resources in both material and personnel from more useful and more importantly, multi-purpose tools of warfare. The steel alone was probably enough to build several new warships, or maybe an entire extra fleet of massive war balloons- the wall of Ba Sing Se could have been rendered irrelevant with an airship fleet of similar scale and power as the Fire Nation's navy, and far more effectively than using a massive one-shot device to punch a single point of entry through the outer wall. So not only did they waste all these resources on a project that failed, they also delivered an enormous bounty of quality materials that the Earth Kingdom could cannibalize at their leisure.

While I don't believe the series ever says who's brilliant idea that one was, it certainly shows the same sort of short-sighted grandiosity that Ozai's "BURN ALL THE THINGS!" plan does. Which makes sense; Ozai is an absolute monarch, and he also has no real grasp of How To War, what with being the second son and never so much as seeing a battlefield. I could easily see him in his misguided ego ordering all these impractical things thinking they are grand ideas, and in the process running an already war-ragged population to the very brink of no longer being able to sustain the war effort, or worse, no longer even being able to effectively hold all of the gained territory. A more capable tactician on the throne (for instance, Iroh, who actually KNOWS a few things about military strategy) probably could have done a much better job of managing the war effort, and I suspect prior to Ozai's successful bid for power, that Sozin and Azulon had actually done so.

I would imagine that the drill was commissioned before the Fire Nation had access to designs for war balloons, so it's not as foolish as it may have seemed.

The Fire Nation got the war balloon plans toward the end of season one (The Northern Air Temple). The drill was used around the middle of season 2, a few months later. That's enough time for a more logical leader to scrap what was already finished, and use the parts and manpower for war balloons and other equipment. The long-term benefit of this would probably outweigh the lost time and money spent on the drill.
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The Flood
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Postby The Flood » Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:05 pm

Jaslandia wrote:
The Flood wrote:I would imagine that the drill was commissioned before the Fire Nation had access to designs for war balloons, so it's not as foolish as it may have seemed.

The Fire Nation got the war balloon plans toward the end of season one (The Northern Air Temple). The drill was used around the middle of season 2, a few months later. That's enough time for a more logical leader to scrap what was already finished, and use the parts and manpower for war balloons and other equipment. The long-term benefit of this would probably outweigh the lost time and money spent on the drill.

There's no guarantee that they had reverse engineered the balloon design by then, though. Plus, the drill might have already been on its way to Ba Sing Se by the time the balloons could have been built. We don't see any balloons in use until the middle of season 3, after all.
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Jaslandia
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Postby Jaslandia » Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:51 pm

The Flood wrote:
Jaslandia wrote:The Fire Nation got the war balloon plans toward the end of season one (The Northern Air Temple). The drill was used around the middle of season 2, a few months later. That's enough time for a more logical leader to scrap what was already finished, and use the parts and manpower for war balloons and other equipment. The long-term benefit of this would probably outweigh the lost time and money spent on the drill.

There's no guarantee that they had reverse engineered the balloon design by then, though. Plus, the drill might have already been on its way to Ba Sing Se by the time the balloons could have been built. We don't see any balloons in use until the middle of season 3, after all.

True. However, it's possible the war balloons would have been completed earlier if Ozai focused on them instead of the drill. If the drill was never built and all the drill's resources and manpower went to war balloons, a fleet of them could have been ready for an invasion of Ba Sing Se at the same time the drill would have been ready (middle of season 2).
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Boring Paradise
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Postby Boring Paradise » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:08 am

So if Ozai sorted his prioties right then the (second) invasion of Ba Sing Se would be a success.
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Postby Reploid Productions » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:43 am

Boring Paradise wrote:So if Ozai sorted his prioties right then the (second) invasion of Ba Sing Se would be a success.

Seems like it to me. SOMEBODY highly-placed was making some really crappy tactical decisions, and we know that A) Ozai has no military experience and seemingly little real knowledge of the subject, and B) Is sufficiently short-sighted as per his "burning the entire Earth Kingdom to the ground is the best way to deal with them!" plan.

Granted, I suspect Ozai is not the only short-sighted maniac in the Fire Nation hierarchy, given other plans executed by other military leaders. I mean, Zhao's big plan to conquer the Northern Water Tribe was pretty ill-conceived, even if we ignore the hilariously bad idea killing the moon was. After all, why commit that many resources to open up a new front in the war against an enemy that for the most part seems content to keep to themselves in their icy fortress and lacks the force projection to be a threat? A small blockade force would have been more than sufficient to keep the north contained until after the current front(s) of the conflict were dealt with.
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Postby Charellia » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:54 am

Reploid Productions wrote:
Boring Paradise wrote:So if Ozai sorted his prioties right then the (second) invasion of Ba Sing Se would be a success.

Seems like it to me. SOMEBODY highly-placed was making some really crappy tactical decisions, and we know that A) Ozai has no military experience and seemingly little real knowledge of the subject, and B) Is sufficiently short-sighted as per his "burning the entire Earth Kingdom to the ground is the best way to deal with them!" plan.

Granted, I suspect Ozai is not the only short-sighted maniac in the Fire Nation hierarchy, given other plans executed by other military leaders. I mean, Zhao's big plan to conquer the Northern Water Tribe was pretty ill-conceived, even if we ignore the hilariously bad idea killing the moon was. After all, why commit that many resources to open up a new front in the war against an enemy that for the most part seems content to keep to themselves in their icy fortress and lacks the force projection to be a threat? A small blockade force would have been more than sufficient to keep the north contained until after the current front(s) of the conflict were dealt with.

I think Zhao's concern was partially about the fact that the longer Aang spent with the Northern Water Tribe the bigger threat he would become to the Fire Nation.

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Postby Reploid Productions » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:57 am

Charellia wrote:
Reploid Productions wrote:Seems like it to me. SOMEBODY highly-placed was making some really crappy tactical decisions, and we know that A) Ozai has no military experience and seemingly little real knowledge of the subject, and B) Is sufficiently short-sighted as per his "burning the entire Earth Kingdom to the ground is the best way to deal with them!" plan.

Granted, I suspect Ozai is not the only short-sighted maniac in the Fire Nation hierarchy, given other plans executed by other military leaders. I mean, Zhao's big plan to conquer the Northern Water Tribe was pretty ill-conceived, even if we ignore the hilariously bad idea killing the moon was. After all, why commit that many resources to open up a new front in the war against an enemy that for the most part seems content to keep to themselves in their icy fortress and lacks the force projection to be a threat? A small blockade force would have been more than sufficient to keep the north contained until after the current front(s) of the conflict were dealt with.

I think Zhao's concern was partially about the fact that the longer Aang spent with the Northern Water Tribe the bigger threat he would become to the Fire Nation.

Probably that and an intense desire to give Ozai some sort of crushing victory to appease Da Boss about the whole "Haven't managed to catch the Avatar" problem. The example Ozai set with Zuko probably went a loooong way toward establishing a reputation. "Oh man, if he did that to his own family, WTF would he do to somebody he's NOT related to for messing up? :shock: "
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Postby Alaizia » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:36 pm

Reploid Productions wrote:Granted, I suspect Ozai is not the only short-sighted maniac in the Fire Nation hierarchy, given other plans executed by other military leaders. I mean, Zhao's big plan to conquer the Northern Water Tribe was pretty ill-conceived, even if we ignore the hilariously bad idea killing the moon was.


Ill-concieved? No, not exactly. Zhao had enough common sense and tactical skill, despite his great pride. He knew from the beginning that the waterbenders' power dramatically increased from the full moon. So he mainly attacked during daytime. He acknowledged to Iroh that eventually when a full moon would rise, his forces would be put to a significant tactical disadvantage. But, due to the fact that he was already well-educated to the secret of the Moon Spirit's mortal form, added to the fact that he was ruthless and determined for victory, he came up with the objective to eliminate the Moon Spirit at all costs. A dangerous and radical plan, I agree, but not necesserily "ill-concieved".

Reploid Productions wrote:After all, why commit that many resources to open up a new front in the war against an enemy that for the most part seems content to keep to themselves in their icy fortress and lacks the force projection to be a threat?


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Postby The Flood » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:02 pm

Do any of you guys think Korrasami is real? Or is it just fans grasping at straws because they want to see two chicks make out on a cartoon?
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Postby Reploid Productions » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:14 pm

The Flood wrote:Do any of you guys think Korrasami is real? Or is it just fans grasping at straws because they want to see two chicks make out on a cartoon?

You DO know what fandom you're talking about, right? :P
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Postby Ameriganastan » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:24 pm

The Flood wrote:Do any of you guys think Korrasami is real? Or is it just fans grasping at straws because they want to see two chicks make out on a cartoon?

Or maybe they just think two characters have good potential chemistry together. Not all guys who like Yuri are into it cause "OMG, lesbians kissing!"
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Postby Laerod » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:12 pm

The Flood wrote:Do any of you guys think Korrasami is real? Or is it just fans grasping at straws because they want to see two chicks make out on a cartoon?

Fans grasping at straws and a good bit of queer-baiting. I'm largely behind Korrasami, but my impression of the handling of shipping in the show has been that it's so frustratingly hamfisted that it's probably better for the narrative if they just focus on the plot and don't try to force any romance on us.

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Postby Ameriganastan » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:08 am

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Postby Alaizia » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:37 am

Laerod wrote:
The Flood wrote:Do any of you guys think Korrasami is real? Or is it just fans grasping at straws because they want to see two chicks make out on a cartoon?

Fans grasping at straws and a good bit of queer-baiting. I'm largely behind Korrasami, but my impression of the handling of shipping in the show has been that it's so frustratingly hamfisted that it's probably better for the narrative if they just focus on the plot and don't try to force any romance on us.


This kind of romance will never happen in Avatar right now.
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Postby New haven america » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:01 pm

The Flood wrote:Do any of you guys think Korrasami is real? Or is it just fans grasping at straws because they want to see two chicks make out on a cartoon?

Yuri isn't just about lesbians making out y'know.
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Postby Reploid Productions » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:13 pm

Alaizia wrote:
Laerod wrote:Fans grasping at straws and a good bit of queer-baiting. I'm largely behind Korrasami, but my impression of the handling of shipping in the show has been that it's so frustratingly hamfisted that it's probably better for the narrative if they just focus on the plot and don't try to force any romance on us.


This kind of romance will never happen in Avatar right now.

Or at least not overtly declared as such. Given the stuff that the creators have gotten past the radar before, I could totally see them putting a lot of friendly subtext-that-could-maybe-be-something-else and then ducking the censors by never actually confirming it.
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Postby New haven america » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:04 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FCNebbo81s

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Postby The Flood » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:38 pm

Reploid Productions wrote:
Alaizia wrote:This kind of romance will never happen in Avatar right now.

Or at least not overtly declared as such. Given the stuff that the creators have gotten past the radar before, I could totally see them putting a lot of friendly subtext-that-could-maybe-be-something-else and then ducking the censors by never actually confirming it.
It's online only now, though, so maybe they can get away with more.

Some even say that book 3 went online only because of how dark the latter part of it was.
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Postby Reploid Productions » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:46 pm

The Flood wrote:
Reploid Productions wrote:Or at least not overtly declared as such. Given the stuff that the creators have gotten past the radar before, I could totally see them putting a lot of friendly subtext-that-could-maybe-be-something-else and then ducking the censors by never actually confirming it.
It's online only now, though, so maybe they can get away with more.

Some even say that book 3 went online only because of how dark the latter part of it was.

I'd believe it! For all the stuff ATLA got past the radar, Korra book 3 blew right past it and straight into the sort of territory I'd expect to see in the anime that I watch. And even most anime won't go that far with on-screen suffocations or implying that heavily that somebody's head exploded!
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Postby Boring Paradise » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:05 am

Just another 7 days left until it airs.

Why do you do this to me? :(
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Postby Blasveck » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:53 am

The Book 4 Trailer is out!

http://m.nick.com/videos/video.rbml?id= ... r-89471257

Spoilers, of course.
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Founded: Dec 28, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nightkill the Emperor » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:04 pm

Blasveck wrote:The Book 4 Trailer is out!

http://m.nick.com/videos/video.rbml?id= ... r-89471257

Spoilers, of course.

This kicks ass.
Hi! I'm Khan, your local misanthropic Indian.
I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith.
P2TM RP Discussion Thread
If you want a good rp, read this shit.
Tiami is cool.
Nat: Night's always in some bizarre state somewhere between "intoxicated enough to kill a hair metal lead singer" and "annoying Mormon missionary sober".

Swith: It's because you're so awesome. God himself refreshes the screen before he types just to see if Nightkill has written anything while he was off somewhere else.

Monfrox wrote:
The balkens wrote:
# went there....

It's Nightkill. He's been there so long he rents out rooms to other people at a flat rate, but demands cash up front.

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Jaslandia
Minister
 
Posts: 2652
Founded: Aug 11, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Jaslandia » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:13 pm

Blasveck wrote:The Book 4 Trailer is out!

http://m.nick.com/videos/video.rbml?id= ... r-89471257

Spoilers, of course.

Was that the Foggy Swamp I saw?

EDIT: Judging from that scene of Kuvira standing in front of an army of mecha tanks, I'm theorizing Kuvira is gonna go rogue in Season 4 and attempt to create her own empire or something.
I think I saw the current Fire Lord too (Zuko's daughter)! Finally!
Varrick!
Did I just hear Toph? Alive? Dead? Zombie? So many questions!
Last edited by Jaslandia on Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Jaslandia or Jas, either one works
This nation (mostly) represents my political views.
Factbook
Puppets: Partrica, New Jaslandia, Kasbahan
Pro: Regulated Capitalism, Two-state solution, nice people, Nerdfighteria, democracy, science, public education, rationalism, reason, logic, politeness, LGBT rights, feminism, UN, Democratic Party

Anti: Religious extremism/fundamentalism, terrorism, dictatorship, oppression, hatred, bigotry, racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, conspiracy theories, Stalinism, theocracy, social conservatism, corruption, Nazism, Vladimir Putin, Republican Party

In-between: Religion, socialism, Barack Obama

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