The (Regenerated) Doctor Who Thread: Reverse the Polarity!

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

I really cannot express my thoughts better than this comment I saw on reddit:

My short message to Russell

I really don't know where to begin. It was, from beginning to end, awful. It retroactively makes the very small amount of positive regard I had for this era disappear. I would rather watch Kill the Moon ten times without the final Twelve/Clara/Danny scenes than watch that again. I very rarely cry with laughter but I did after this.

The fact that a cameo from my least favourite Doctor saying some bullshit might actually be the best bit of the episode. The fact that the Doctor regenerating into Billie Piper is possibly the least stupid thing that happens.

[-Britain-]

I really cannot express my thoughts better than this comment I saw on reddit:

My short message to Russell

I really don't know where to begin. It was, from beginning to end, awful. It retroactively makes the very small amount of positive regard I had for this era disappear. I would rather watch Kill the Moon ten times without the final Twelve/Clara/Danny scenes than watch that again. I very rarely cry with laughter but I did after this.

The fact that a cameo from my least favourite Doctor saying some bullshit might actually be the best bit of the episode. The fact that the Doctor regenerating into Billie Piper is possibly the least stupid thing that happens.

Be careful what you say about the RTD/ Gatwa era here. You might get accused of trolling for having a negative opinion, as I have from one or two fans.

It wasn't a good finale. It wasn't even average. If I had been a casual viewer, not a fan who's been interested in Doctor Who since I started school, I would have turned over to watch something else. As the seventy minutes dragged on, my mood went from expectant to disappointment to just sheer contempt when, just as I thought the whole thing couldn't get any more desperate to inspire interest,

the Doctor changes into Billie Piper.

If Doctor Who is to be 'rested', it might be a good idea for the BBC to consider putting an unofficial 'end' to a programme which has been the longest running drama in the corporation's history but has now clearly run its course and lost its former popularity with huge audiences.

My own short message to Russell

[Three Galaxies]

I really cannot express my thoughts better than this comment I saw on reddit:

I really don't know where to begin. It was, from beginning to end, awful. It retroactively makes the very small amount of positive regard I had for this era disappear. I would rather watch Kill the Moon ten times without the final Twelve/Clara/Danny scenes than watch that again. I very rarely cry with laughter but I did after this.

The fact that a cameo from my least favourite Doctor saying some bullshit might actually be the best bit of the episode. The fact that the Doctor regenerating into Billie Piper is possibly the least stupid thing that happens.

Be careful what you say about the RTD/ Gatwa era here. You might get accused of trolling for having a negative opinion, as I have from one or two fans.

It wasn't a good finale. It wasn't even average. If I had been a casual viewer, not a fan who's been interested in Doctor Who since I started school, I would have turned over to watch something else. As the seventy minutes dragged on, my mood went from expectant to disappointment to just sheer contempt when, just as I thought the whole thing couldn't get any more desperate to inspire interest,

the Doctor changes into Billie Piper.

If Doctor Who is to be 'rested', it might be a good idea for the BBC to consider putting an unofficial 'end' to a programme which has been the longest running drama in the corporation's history but has now clearly run its course and lost its former popularity with huge audiences.

Maybe you just shouldn't watch Doctor Who anymore, since I only hear you say bad things about it.

[Vassenor]

I really cannot express my thoughts better than this comment I saw on reddit:

I really don't know where to begin. It was, from beginning to end, awful. It retroactively makes the very small amount of positive regard I had for this era disappear. I would rather watch Kill the Moon ten times without the final Twelve/Clara/Danny scenes than watch that again. I very rarely cry with laughter but I did after this.

The fact that a cameo from my least favourite Doctor saying some bullshit might actually be the best bit of the episode. The fact that the Doctor regenerating into Billie Piper is possibly the least stupid thing that happens.

Be careful what you say about the RTD/ Gatwa era here. You might get accused of trolling for having a negative opinion, as I have from one or two fans.

It wasn't a good finale. It wasn't even average. If I had been a casual viewer, not a fan who's been interested in Doctor Who since I started school, I would have turned over to watch something else. As the seventy minutes dragged on, my mood went from expectant to disappointment to just sheer contempt when, just as I thought the whole thing couldn't get any more desperate to inspire interest,

the Doctor changes into Billie Piper.

If Doctor Who is to be 'rested', it might be a good idea for the BBC to consider putting an unofficial 'end' to a programme which has been the longest running drama in the corporation's history but has now clearly run its course and lost its former popularity with huge audiences.

I can’t speak for anyone else but I’ve never seen anyone called a troll just for a negative opinion.

Obvious bad faith criticism like mindlessly screaming BUT WOKE everywhere gets called out but that’s about it.

[Drand Union]

Be careful what you say about the RTD/ Gatwa era here. You might get accused of trolling for having a negative opinion, as I have from one or two fans. :eyebrow.

Mmmmmm no I think that’s just you buddy

[Drand Union]

But now that all's said and done on Ncuti's era, I will say it wasn't quite for me. Both seasons ended up feeling like less than the sum of their parts, and I think that has to do with the companions. Ruby was instantly the Doctor's 'bestie,' and Belinda started with 'get me home!' and ended being friends with the Doctor. There's no real growth, no genuine dynamic going on between the characters. In fairness, I have always been more of a Moffat fan in regards to how he handles companions (in general, he tends to write companions who butt heads with the Doctor more often and treat themselves like equals). Both the finales also left a bad taste in my mouth, which reflects poorly on each season as a whole.

When RTD was announced to be returning, I worried that going backwards was the wrong direction, and I feel now that I was unfortunately right. The sooner we get new blood to write on the show, the better in my opinion. That said, it's not all doom and gloom - Boom, 73 Yards, and Dot and Bubble were all fantastic in my book, and Lux, The Well, The Story and the Engine, and The Interstellar Song Contest were competent episodes that I enjoyed. Overall, I'd say my experience was that season 1 had better individual episodes, but season 2 was more consistently good (until the end).

Here's hoping The War Between the Land and the Sea captures my attention better - I do like serialised storytelling, so hopefully they'll be able to deliver well in that format.

[Three Galaxies]

I have no problem with Billie Piper coming back, because it goes without saying that I loved her as Rose Tyler, but I am quite disappointed that Gatwa left so soon.

[-Britain-]

Why Ncuti Gatwa’s Doctor Who flopped [by MICHAEL HOGAN, Culture Correspondent, writing in the Telegraph]
"This was supposed to be a brave new era for the venerable sci-fi saga...Russell T Davies returned to take the reins ahead of the show’s 60th anniversary. Streaming giant Disney+ pumped in plentiful cash to boost the budget. One of the hottest young actors around inherited the sonic screwdriver. Whovians were abuzz with anticipation...
Early signs were positive, but the expected resurgence didn’t come to pass. Ratings have nosedived, averaging 5 million for Jodie Whittaker’s last series but a mere 3 million for Gatwa’s latest. It’s predicted that Disney won’t renew its deal to bankroll the series. Rumours are rife that production will be paused for the first time since the cult show went off-air between 1989 and 2005 after a previously unbroken 26-year run. Gatwa’s Tardis tenure has been a flop of inter-galactic proportions, putting Doctor Who firmly back in the doldrums.
What went wrong?
For a start, his portrayal has missed the mark. Gatwa’s time traveller has been the most emotional yet – prone to tears and petulant outbursts. He lacks the authority and gravitas to convince as an old soul who has lived for thousands of years and seen it all. It’s not about the actor’s age (Peter Davison and Matt Smith were younger), it’s about screen presence.
With bright colours, CBBC-worthy plots (space babies! singing goblins! a bogeyman made of snot!) and his tendency to use the word “babes”, this Doctor feels overly kid-focused. Disney-fied, if you like. He has been too passive, frequently outwitted by foes and failing to impress until the last moment...
Davies might be one of our most decorated screenwriters, but when it comes to the Whoniverse, he’s lost his golden touch. Overcomplicated storylines have paid off poorly. Rip-roaring thrills have been in short supply. Self-reflexive writing and fourth-wall breaks, with meta-references to the show’s own fanbase and the villainous Mrs Flood (Anita Dobson) whispering asides to camera, are symptoms of a show increasingly in thrall to its own lore and impenetrable for newer viewers...
We’ve been underwhelmed by the baffling return of obscure old enemies – The Rani, Omega, Sutekh, the Toymaker – who mean nothing to most viewers. The show has entered the realm of fan fiction, rather than primetime entertainment with broad appeal. Anybody who hasn’t been watching for decades won’t have a clue what’s going on...
Scripts have forgotten ye olde maxim of “show not tell”, with too much proselytising and expositional dialogue. Naysayers believe Davies has focused far too much on identity politics and culture wars issues, rather than family-friendly fun...
Doctor Who hasn’t just lost its way. It has lost much of its audience. Overnight ratings have plummeted to 1.6 million, down a whopping 10 million from their 1970s heyday. The Tennant era recaptured those glory days, averaging 8.3 million and often hitting 10 million. Even with catch-up viewing taken into account, recent figures have struggled to reach 4 million. Uncertainty about the show’s future has increasingly crept into coverage, resulting in a depressing death spiral. You can’t blame Disney for wanting to cut its losses after a reported £100 million investment...with Gatwa now exiting the Tardis and Davies’s crowd-pleasing touch deserting him, the 62-year-old show is in critical condition. Somebody call a Doctor..."

[Three Galaxies]

Could you stop being so fucking negative all the time? Stop watching this show if you hate it, and leave the rest of us in peace.

[New yugoslavaia]

Could you stop being so fucking negative all the time? Stop watching this show if you hate it, and leave the rest of us in peace.

Maybe it would be best if we just ignored him for now.

[Vassenor]

Although between this and the whole "Michael Burnham sucks as a character because she cries all the time" shtick I'm wondering why it is that characters played by black actors are apparently not allowed to emote.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Although between this and the whole "Michael Burnham sucks as a character because she cries all the time" shtick I'm wondering why it is that characters played by black actors are apparently not allowed to emote.

I don't agree with that article, though I do think he cries too much. His emotions are all superficial. He cries or dances with glee or yells and tortures someone or whatever, but there's nothing underneath.

[Three Galaxies]

So, after eleven years of watching modern Who, should I finally begin watching the classic series? I found a place that has every episode for free.

[Cannot think of a name]

So, after eleven years of watching modern Who, should I finally begin watching the classic series? I found a place that has every episode for free.

It's a million times drier and slower paced and has community theater level effects, but some of it is really fun.

Take this with the caveat that it was my friends that were super into Doctor Who when I was a teen (towards the end of old Who) and I spent most of the episodes going, "Who the fuck is that?" and "What's that all about?" I also went with them to a Doctor Who convention put on by the local PBS station...back when such a thing could fit the entire attendance in the recital hall of the local college...and saw John Pertwee and walked around a TARDIS set. I don't know if it was built for the tour/convention or if it was an actual camera used set. Also, Pertwee has the most bonkers car chase...he switches between three different vehicles, almost like they were going 'no budget, huh?' So I think he's fun. But also, I'm in the Cult of Tom Baker.

tl/dr: I'm the casualest of casual fans of the old series, so calibrate anything I say through that lens.

[Drand Union]

So, after eleven years of watching modern Who, should I finally begin watching the classic series? I found a place that has every episode for free.

I like it, but then again I like a lot of older media. It's much slower and the serialised format works for me most of the time but often causes a lot of bloat. Of the Classic Who I've seen most of its been Hartnell, but I like pretty much all of them (Colin Baker gets an unfair rap, I really like the season I've watched of him).

[Bursken]

can't even lie I had a crush on Billie Piper watching reruns when I was young, but I quite liked the Ninth and Tenth Doctors, and she was great in it. Wonder how they'll write the doctor being in the visage of a person they got with as a clone in an alternate universe. Nifty stuff

[Three Galaxies]

can't even lie I had a crush on Billie Piper watching reruns when I was young, but I quite liked the Ninth and Tenth Doctors, and she was great in it. Wonder how they'll write the doctor being in the visage of a person they got with as a clone in an alternate universe. Nifty stuff

Maybe it's for the same reason that Twelve got the same face as the man who was saved in Pompeii.

[-Britain-]

can't even lie I had a crush on Billie Piper watching reruns when I was young, but I quite liked the Ninth and Tenth Doctors, and she was great in it. Wonder how they'll write the doctor being in the visage of a person they got with as a clone in an alternate universe. Nifty stuff

In the classic series, the first two Doctors shared their faces with a sixteenth-century Catholic Abbot and a megalomanic 21st-century dictator respectively. Maybe during regeneration his changing cells can rearrange into a figure based on the image of somebody he has met briefly, buried in his subconscious and retrieved at random. It's been established the physical characteristics a Time Lord acquires during regeneration may be selected - in The War Games, the Second Doctor is offered a series of new faces by the tribunal of Timelords during his trial, and in Destiny of The Daleks, Romana chooses her next body, which is based on Princess Astra, a character she met in the previous story. Maybe the Doctor refuses consciously to select his next face because he's always reluctant to give in to regeneration and how he looks is never important to him.

EDIT - I forgot to mention Colin Baker played the Commander of the Chancellery Guard on Gallifrey who met the Fifth Doctor.

[Cannot think of a name]

can't even lie I had a crush on Billie Piper watching reruns when I was young, but I quite liked the Ninth and Tenth Doctors, and she was great in it. Wonder how they'll write the doctor being in the visage of a person they got with as a clone in an alternate universe. Nifty stuff

In the classic series, the first two Doctors shared their faces with a sixteenth-century Catholic Abbot and a megalomanic 21st-century dictator respectively. Maybe during regeneration his changing cells can rearrange into a figure based on the image of somebody he has met briefly, buried in his subconscious and retrieved at random. It's been established the physical characteristics a Time Lord acquires during regeneration may be selected - in The War Games, the Second Doctor is offered a series of new faces by the tribunal of Timelords during his trial, and in Destiny of The Daleks, Romana chooses her next body, which is based on Princess Astra, a character she met in the previous story. Maybe the Doctor refuses consciously to select his next face because he's always reluctant to give in to regeneration and how he looks is never important to him.

Peter Capaldi had played some dude in Pompei on Doctor Who before being the Doctor, I think they even referenced it.

Romana literally tried on bodies like they were outfits, it was weird.

[-Britain-]

Romana literally tried on bodies like they were outfits, it was weird.

I think it's possible to speculate she was projecting mental images of possible new bodies to the Doctor for his opinion as she remained elsewhere in the TARDIS on the verge of regeneration. It's difficult to imagine the intelligent and sensible Romana could be so frivolous that she would waste four possible regenerations just to get the 'right' body for the Doctor's approval. She's a young Time Lady, only aged 125, and there has been no gap between this story and the previous one where Romana could have met fatal injury in an untelevised adventure (it's clear from the dialogue that the Doctor has just left Atrios, where he met Princess Astra, because he assumes she has remained aboard the TARDIS). Maybe she thinks changing her appearance would disguise her from the Black Guardian, whose wrath she and the Doctor are fleeing from. The script editor, Douglas Adams, has been lambasted by fans for including self-parodying in the stories of Season Seventeen, which has a reputation for not taking the programme seriously, and Romana's regeneration scene is often cited by his critics as the worst instance.

[Three Galaxies]

The Wish World episode is a good dive into the nature of most Englishmen/women (the resistance being the few exceptions).

In another BBC series (Sherlock), the character of Charles Augustus Magnussen called them a spineless people... and he wasn't wrong.

[Cannot think of a name]

Romana literally tried on bodies like they were outfits, it was weird.

I think it's possible to speculate she was projecting mental images of possible new bodies to the Doctor for his opinion as she remained elsewhere in the TARDIS on the verge of regeneration. It's difficult to imagine the intelligent and sensible Romana could be so frivolous that she would waste four possible regenerations just to get the 'right' body for the Doctor's approval. She's a young Time Lady, only aged 125, and there has been no gap between this story and the previous one where Romana could have met fatal injury in an untelevised adventure (it's clear from the dialogue that the Doctor has just left Atrios, where he met Princess Astra, because he assumes she has remained aboard the TARDIS). Maybe she thinks changing her appearance would disguise her from the Black Guardian, whose wrath she and the Doctor are fleeing from. The script editor, Douglas Adams, has been lambasted by fans for including self-parodying in the stories of Season Seventeen, which has a reputation for not taking the programme seriously, and Romana's regeneration scene is often cited by his critics as the worst instance.

Honestly I just chalk it up to 'making it up as they go along' and don't really worry about it. Tom Baker was followed around by a plug before he transitioned into the cricket guy whose name I suddenly forgot. NuWho is the only time they've even bothered an ounce of consistency in how the Doctor regenerates and even then they've been fast and loose...storing regeneration energy in a severed hand, becoming the Pompeii guy and now Rose, turning back into Tenent, then 'bi-generation' or whatever they're calling it, breaking the 12 regeneration limit...being the original species that regenerates.

I don't think holding the show that's been around for so long and through so many iterations and intents to strict continuity is a fool's gambit. I mean, it's easier for me because I retain almost nothing so it's easy for me to ignore precedent or just apply it selectively to justify whatever is happening now, but whatever.

[Vassenor]

I think it's possible to speculate she was projecting mental images of possible new bodies to the Doctor for his opinion as she remained elsewhere in the TARDIS on the verge of regeneration. It's difficult to imagine the intelligent and sensible Romana could be so frivolous that she would waste four possible regenerations just to get the 'right' body for the Doctor's approval. She's a young Time Lady, only aged 125, and there has been no gap between this story and the previous one where Romana could have met fatal injury in an untelevised adventure (it's clear from the dialogue that the Doctor has just left Atrios, where he met Princess Astra, because he assumes she has remained aboard the TARDIS). Maybe she thinks changing her appearance would disguise her from the Black Guardian, whose wrath she and the Doctor are fleeing from. The script editor, Douglas Adams, has been lambasted by fans for including self-parodying in the stories of Season Seventeen, which has a reputation for not taking the programme seriously, and Romana's regeneration scene is often cited by his critics as the worst instance.

Honestly I just chalk it up to 'making it up as they go along' and don't really worry about it. Tom Baker was followed around by a plug before he transitioned into the cricket guy whose name I suddenly forgot. NuWho is the only time they've even bothered an ounce of consistency in how the Doctor regenerates and even then they've been fast and loose...storing regeneration energy in a severed hand, becoming the Pompeii guy and now Rose, turning back into Tenent, then 'bi-generation' or whatever they're calling it, breaking the 12 regeneration limit...being the original species that regenerates.

I don't think holding the show that's been around for so long and through so many iterations and intents to strict continuity is a fool's gambit. I mean, it's easier for me because I retain almost nothing so it's easy for me to ignore precedent or just apply it selectively to justify whatever is happening now, but whatever.

Or we stop pretending the show has any sort of canon or continuity beyond the broad strokes.

[Three Galaxies]

Honestly I just chalk it up to 'making it up as they go along' and don't really worry about it. Tom Baker was followed around by a plug before he transitioned into the cricket guy whose name I suddenly forgot. NuWho is the only time they've even bothered an ounce of consistency in how the Doctor regenerates and even then they've been fast and loose...storing regeneration energy in a severed hand, becoming the Pompeii guy and now Rose, turning back into Tenent, then 'bi-generation' or whatever they're calling it, breaking the 12 regeneration limit...being the original species that regenerates.

I don't think holding the show that's been around for so long and through so many iterations and intents to strict continuity is a fool's gambit. I mean, it's easier for me because I retain almost nothing so it's easy for me to ignore precedent or just apply it selectively to justify whatever is happening now, but whatever.

Or we stop pretending the show has any sort of canon or continuity beyond the broad strokes.

I already accept that it doesn't.

If I remember correctly, the Eighth Doctor said that he was half-human, and I completely reject that.

[Cannot think of a name]

Honestly I just chalk it up to 'making it up as they go along' and don't really worry about it. Tom Baker was followed around by a plug before he transitioned into the cricket guy whose name I suddenly forgot. NuWho is the only time they've even bothered an ounce of consistency in how the Doctor regenerates and even then they've been fast and loose...storing regeneration energy in a severed hand, becoming the Pompeii guy and now Rose, turning back into Tenent, then 'bi-generation' or whatever they're calling it, breaking the 12 regeneration limit...being the original species that regenerates.

I don't think holding the show that's been around for so long and through so many iterations and intents to strict continuity is a fool's gambit. I mean, it's easier for me because I retain almost nothing so it's easy for me to ignore precedent or just apply it selectively to justify whatever is happening now, but whatever.

Or we stop pretending the show has any sort of canon or continuity beyond the broad strokes.

You just said "or we do the thing you just said."