New site!

[Thenium]

Guys not clarifying the use of ai in the project was completely my fault but please can we not make it the topic of the thread?
If you don't like the fact that ai was used to make the website then don't use it or don't suggest anything to improve it.
My goal was to make a tool for the community, I didn't think the use of ai would become such an issue and I'm sorry for not clarifying it since I thought it was easily noticeable which was not.

[Grenartia]

Vibe coding uses generative Ai and thus it is using AI to write code. Is that not correct? What's the difference?

You are not a developer/engineer or even coder/programmer, so you wouldn't understand. You didn't even notice until someone told you that it was vibecoded. The difference between using AI to code and vibecoding is that vibecoding tends to be used for people who have no idea what they are doing.

That has to be the lamest and most tonedeaf defense of AI slop I've ever encountered.

[Kractero]

You are not a developer/engineer or even coder/programmer, so you wouldn't understand. You didn't even notice until someone told you that it was vibecoded. The difference between using AI to code and vibecoding is that vibecoding tends to be used for people who have no idea what they are doing.

That has to be the lamest and most tonedeaf defense of AI slop I've ever encountered.

I really do not want to hold a debate with someone who didn't know it was AI slop until just "Mon Sep 07, 2026 8:59 am." This was not defense of AI slop either. But perhaps I do not use NSG enough to ignore points made in previous posts.

[New Faith]

That has to be the lamest and most tonedeaf defense of AI slop I've ever encountered.

I really do not want to hold a debate with someone who didn't know it was AI slop until just "Mon Sep 07, 2026 8:59 am." This was not defense of AI slop either. But perhaps I do not use NSG enough to ignore points made in previous posts.

No please why ignore them? Enlighten us since you're soooo much better than people who aren't coders. So from the top please.

You are not a developer/engineer or even coder/programmer, so you wouldn't understand. You didn't even notice until someone told you that it was vibecoded. The difference between using AI to code and vibecoding is that vibecoding tends to be used for people who have no idea what they are doing.

1. I'm not a biologist, but I'm capable of understanding aspects of the science. I'm capable of talking to people about biology. Similarly, though I'm not a developer/engineer or even coder/programmer, I am capable of learning and understanding enough to carry a conversation. So, instead of beginning your response as unsufferably as you did, maybe just get to the answer.

2. Vibe coding uses prompts to get generative ai to generate code. Yes or no? If yes, what are you disagreeing with me about? If no, source?

3. The reason I made this critique isn't because I'm some anti-technology troglodyte who doesn't understand the struggles of coding. It's because I'm anti-generative ai for all of the social and environmental harms. I don't need to be a coder to be qualified to make this critique so I'm baffled you feel the need to bring it up. I'm not a geological engineer but I'm able to critique the oil industry.

[Kractero]

My initial phrasing was dismissive. That is my bad.

1) There is a ladder of depth when talking to someone about things you do not know. Elementary biology is a lot easier to understand than most levels of computer science, let alone training a model.

2) Where did I disagree that vibecoding does not use generative AI to produce code? The definition of vibecoding has since become a derogatory term for either people who do know how to code or those who can't code beyond an introductory course to program.

AI-assisted programming, which is the term I should have been using, is not vibecoding. Vibecoding is the equivalent of prompting Midjourney or whatever art slop is popular now versus using AI to touch-up, but this is not a good comparison as AI art is complete trash. Perhaps generating a story versus AI proofreading.

3) Same as 1

And same to you, you specifically chose two sentences from the original post to respond to. Is this the way of the NSGer? I already gave my opinion on using generative AI to make the project, as someone who doesn't obfuscate their code and sweated blood for multiple projects. And I gave advice on how to improve, rather than decide to go on a rant and shit on this player's work.

[New Faith]

1) There is a ladder of depth when talking to someone about things you do not know. Elementary biology is a lot easier to understand than any level of computer science, let alone training a model.

3) Same as 1

If my point was about how biology is just as accessible to me as computer science, and therefore my ability to carry a conversation about biology is transferable to my ability to carry a conversation about computer science, this would be a good point. That wasn't what I was saying, though, so your point is terrible. My point is that you should tailor your language so you can discuss topics with people who aren't as well versed in your disciplines as you are. The OP, for example, commended my understanding of ideologies and used my feedback to improve their site. I didn't just go, "You are not a sociologist or even a political science major, so you wouldn't understand. You're wrong about ideologies."

That's because I'm capable of tailoring my message so I can discuss things I'm knowledgeable about to people who don't have the same interests and way of thinking that I do without prefacing it with my arrogant character flaws. You should take notes.

2) Where did I disagree that vibecoding does not use generative AI to produce code? The definition of vibecoding has since become a derogatory term for either people who do know how to code or those who can't code beyond an introductory course to program.

Where are you getting hung up? Here's the timeline since evidently you weren't there:

1. OP admitted the site was mostly vibe-coded.
2. I said I would no longer give feedback because I disapprove of using generative AI (i didn't mention vibe-coding specifically).
3. You said "Using AI to write code is different than vibecoding."
4. I asked "Vibe coding uses generative Ai and thus it is using AI to write code. Is that not correct? What's the difference?" (which I have to ask since my critique was about their use of generative ai, the use of which i inferred from them saying it was vibe-coded, and thus you correcting me with this distinction communicated you think my inference was invalid)
5. You responded back that I was too unqualified to understand (untrue). You then said that "The difference between using AI to code and vibecoding is that vibecoding tends to be used for people who have no idea what they are doing." (First of all, I'm still not a coder and yes I understood what you said. It's almost like that dismissive attitude was just a waste of our time. Second of all, the difference as you've expressed is that generative ai use among inexperienced coders is called vibe-coding, which is irrelevant since my critique was predicated on generative AI itself being bad.)

AI-assisted programming, which is the term I should have been using, is not vibecoding. Vibecoding is the equivalent of prompting Midjourney or whatever art slop is popular now versus using AI to touch-up, but this is not a good comparison as AI art is complete trash. Perhaps generating a story versus AI proofreading.

They used vibe coding to describe their product. In fact, they discussed their product as "mostly vibe coded." Does that sound more like using ai for touch-up or prompting?

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And same to you, you specifically chose two sentences from the original post to respond to. Is this the way of the NSGer?

Yeah. Because I didn't feel the need to respond to the entire thing. Do users have to balance critiques of your points with back pats when you have good ones? Is this the way of the 5th dimension? Because if so, fine I guess.

Using AI to write code is different than vibecoding, and both are different than using it for a creative endeavor. As long as you understand the code and are using AI as a tool, it is okay.

I've already expressed my issues with this distinction you're making.

There is an insane industry push among all the big tech companies and start-ups, so you can't really avoid it.

It can be avoided, especially for pet projects like these.

Though using it for a side project like this and not disclosing it is a bit icky.

It's both icky and socially irresponsible.

Especially knowing that other NationStates technical side projects have caused a lot of mental anguish, crashing out, and suffering. Fuck TypeScript.

Yeah fuck TypeScript.

OP: If you don't already, I recommend learning the code you are prompting. WebDevSimplified is a great place to start.

I would suggest learning the code without use of prompting. The makers of MineCraft, Undertale, Papers Please all taught themselves how to code. They should to.

Is that good enough? Did I sufficiently include the full context and content of your posts? Or do you want me to include the entirety of the follow-up ones as well?

[Kractero]

We are arguing two separate points that can coexist. Yes, my initial post was dismissive, though given how you phrased your response, as you explicitly compared it to the biology analogy to programming, I would not say my interpretation is absurd. There is absolutely a difference in the depth of technical understanding between the two. But yes, I should have tailored the argument and been less dismissive.

You are saying that you object AI regardless of whether or not it is vibecoded or just AI-assisted, which is fair. I wasn't even saying you were wrong, I literally quoted you, differentiate AI-assisted programming from vibecoding (did not even mention OP), talk about the rapid push for AI in the industry, say that the OP should have let users know it was made by AI, then tell them to learn it and give recommendations. I barely engage in a single point you made besides literally the first sentence let alone about the impacts of AI on the environment and society, I basically just go on my own tangent.

They used vibe coding to describe their product. In fact, they discussed their product as "mostly vibe coded." Does that sound more like using ai for touch-up or prompting?

I don't get this response, I am still separating the definition between the two terms, I did not even reference the OP once until the very last sentence.

It can be avoided, especially for little pet projects like these.

AI can be avoided for a pet project. Is that not what I said like right below? My point is that a lot of people are using AI as part of learning how to code, including reputable universities who are teaching students how to prompt engineer, whatever the fuck that is. I verbatim said to LEARN the code that you are prompting. Ultimately for learning not knowing what you are prompting really isn't any different than getting real assignments and then just copying StackOverflow to get the code to work, besides the fact it produces slop faster.

I really don't even get what we are arguing besides my poor initial response to your initial response and then picking apart future responses. Are we arguing just to argue at this point?

I also haven't posted in P2TM in probably over 6 years now, so who knows.

[New Faith]

You are saying that you object AI regardless of whether or not it is vibecoded or just AI-assisted, which is fair. I wasn't even saying you were wrong, I literally quoted you, differentiate AI-assisted programming from vibecoding, talk about the rapid push for AI in the industry, say that the OP should have let users know it was made by AI, then tell them to learn it and give recommendations. I barely engage in a single point you made besides literally the first sentence let alone about the impacts of AI on the environment and society, I basically just go on my own tangent.

I would advise you study the distinction between "Yes, and"/"No, and"/"Yes, but"/"No, but" to learn how dialogue can be more productive. At the end of day, I'm against the use of AI in this product, and your response to this communicated to me you thought there was something wrong with my reasoning or objection (since you quoted me and responded, "Using AI to write code is different than vibecoding" as if this was a mistake I made in my post).I know you are not a linguist or even rhetorician, so perhaps you just can't understand. Oh wait I wouldn't say that, because that would be ridiculous.

I don't get this response, I am still separating the definition between the two terms, I did not even reference the OP once until the very last sentence.

I made the mistake of assuming: "AI-assisted programming, which is the term I should have been using, is not vibecoding. Vibecoding is the equivalent of prompting Midjourney or whatever art slop is popular now versus using AI to touch-up, but this is not a good comparison as AI art is complete trash. Perhaps generating a story versus AI proofreading." was relevant to this thread or discussion on ai use for this project, and not some random tangent. I won't make that mistake again.

At the end of the day, I disapprove of generative ai to code or to touch up code. Because I'm against generative AI itself. Whether an inexperienced coder uses it, or any coder merely uses it to do touch-up, is irrelevant. I think the things I've said here stand on firm moral, conceptual, and definitional grounds. And I have yet to see where I've lacked in these areas in this thread.

AI can be avoided for a pet project. Is that not what I said like right below? My point is that a lot of people are using AI as part of learning how to code, including reputable universities who are teaching students how to prompt engineer, whatever the fuck that is. I verbatim said to LEARN the code that you are prompting. Ultimately for learning not knowing what you are prompting really isn't any different than getting real assignments and then just copying StackOverflow to get the code to work, besides the fact it produces slop faster.

I only responded to this because you criticized that I only responded to two sentences from your original post. I initially didn't feel the need to, but I tried to accommodate.

[Kractero]

Back on the original topic, if OP open-sourced this, threw it on GitHub, I'm sure a lot could be done to help. There is a void for sites like this with the loss of NSDossier after NewTexas's passing.

Some suggestions: I think if it supported `https://nationstates-dossier-explorer.vercel.app/?nation=${NATION}` to let you link yourself to others or bookmark. Also, not sure why this has the feel of a single page application when it's just from what I can tell a vanilla HTML CSS JavaScript website (IE: the docs page is a popup, it wouldn't hurt to just have a /docs page).

And yes, like Aav said, I would recommend putting in the OP it was built with whatever model and at the footer of the site.

I would advise you study the distinction between "Yes, and"/"No, and"/"Yes, but"/"No, but" to learn how dialogue can be more productive. At the end of day, I'm against the use of AI in this product, and your response to this communicated to me you thought there was something wrong with my reasoning or objection (since you quoted me and responded, "Using AI to write code is different than vibecoding" as if this was a mistake I made in my post).I know you are not a linguist or even rhetorician, so perhaps you just can't understand. Oh wait I wouldn't say that, because that would be ridiculous.

This is usually why I don't quote, so I'm not sure why I specifically decided to quote yours. I don't even reply on reply on Discord 50% of the time, since I just rattle off, go on unrelated tangents most of the time, and am reductive.

[Bhacil]

Guys not clarifying the use of ai in the project was completely my fault but please can we not make it the topic of the thread?
If you don't like the fact that ai was used to make the website then don't use it or don't suggest anything to improve it.
My goal was to make a tool for the community, I didn't think the use of ai would become such an issue and I'm sorry for not clarifying it since I thought it was easily noticeable which was not.

I think you did good, I would rather have this gift to nationstates than not.

[Meraud]

Guys not clarifying the use of ai in the project was completely my fault but please can we not make it the topic of the thread?
If you don't like the fact that ai was used to make the website then don't use it or don't suggest anything to improve it.
My goal was to make a tool for the community, I didn't think the use of ai would become such an issue and I'm sorry for not clarifying it since I thought it was easily noticeable which was not.

I think you did good, I would rather have this gift to nationstates than not.

Fully agreed. You provided it to us for free, it's not like we paid for it. If someone does not like it they do not need to use it.

[New Faith]

I think you did good, I would rather have this gift to nationstates than not.

Fully agreed. You provided it to us for free, it's not like we paid for it. If someone does not like it they do not need to use it.

If someone does not like it they do not need to let its social failures go uncritized either. NS is widely hostile to generative ai, and it's good for users to know how extensive the negative feedback can get.

[Thenium]

I think you did good, I would rather have this gift to nationstates than not.

Fully agreed. You provided it to us for free, it's not like we paid for it. If someone does not like it they do not need to use it.

That's how I see it but they have all the right to criticise it since I din't clearly specify it from the start, anyway as Kractero suggested here's the repo for yall https://github.com/V24-bit/NationStates ... r-Explorer.
I won't update the site as frequently from now on but I'll still note your suggestion and bug reports

[Thenium]

Back on the original topic, if OP open-sourced this, threw it on GitHub, I'm sure a lot could be done to help. There is a void for sites like this with the loss of NSDossier after NewTexas's passing.

Some suggestions: I think if it supported `https://nationstates-dossier-explorer.vercel.app/?nation=${NATION}` to let you link yourself to others or bookmark. Also, not sure why this has the feel of a single page application when it's just from what I can tell a vanilla HTML CSS JavaScript website (IE: the docs page is a popup, it wouldn't hurt to just have a /docs page).

And yes, like Aav said, I would recommend putting in the OP it was built with whatever model and at the footer of the site.

At the footer of the site I specify it is vibe-coded I edited this post to show both the repo and the model used.

Also, not sure why this has the feel of a single page application when it's just from what I can tell a vanilla HTML CSS JavaScript website (IE: the docs page is a popup, it wouldn't hurt to just have a /docs page).

Yea, I thought it looked cleaner but if you guys like it better how you suggested it to be I can change it.

[Rocain Founder]

There is a stat called Survival in your list of health-related stats. What is it? The only thing I can think of is that it's Survival of the Z-day apocalypse. If this is so, I suggest putting it with the other zombie-related stats.

[Thenium]

There is a stat called Survival in your list of health-related stats. What is it? The only thing I can think of is that it's Survival of the Z-day apocalypse. If this is so, I suggest putting it with the other zombie-related stats.

It is indeed I will change it thanks for the report

[Lipizia]

I think that this site pushes every nation a bit too right-wing. Could you use also Economic Freedom, Income Equality, Taxation, Welfare and Public Transport to determinate left and right?

[Neo Lunatea]

Apparently I'm now Classical Liberalism

[Zumrudqislaq]

hm, fascism. perfect!

[Thenium]

I think that this site pushes every nation a bit too right-wing. Could you use also Economic Freedom, Income Equality, Taxation, Welfare and Public Transport to determinate left and right?

Yea I noticed, wouldn't adding both welfare and Public transport in some way calculate the same thing twice tho ?
If you guys told me what stats you think should be considered to determine the X axis (left and right) I would really appreciate it.
Till now it is just economic freedom (for past calculations) economic split (even tho I'm considering removing economic split and only take into account economic freedom tell me what you guys think) and taxation.

The libertarian authoritarian axis seems good tho right? It is the one that takes the most stats into account so I hope it is lol

[Thenium]

hm, fascism. perfect!

Are you sarcastic or do you really think it was the right classification?
The tool obviously isn't a political test about you but only about your nation, I'm considering merging fascism, nazism and neo-fascism into a macro ideology harder to get so your opinion would be appreciated

[Zumrudqislaq]

hm, fascism. perfect!

Are you sarcastic or do you really think it was the right classification?
The tool obviously isn't a political test about you but only about your nation, I'm considering merging fascism, nazism and neo-fascism into a macro ideology harder to get so your opinion would be appreciated

no i wanted my nation to be fash
im glad it is

[Of the islands]

Very Great website Keep up the good work!

[Balkanic Federation]

"Political compass: Trotskyism"

Time to go jump off the cliff

[Coregia]

Lets see... Ecomodernism, yeah, that somewhat fits. (Though Social Liberalism was also noted) though I do find the fact I can check the history rather interesting. Quite nice regardless. (But yeah, AI, still nice though)