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by Grenartia » Sun Sep 06, 2026 5:34 pm
by Bhacil » Sun Sep 06, 2026 6:03 pm
Grenartia wrote:Odd. The site now says that for at least some of my nation's recent history, it's classified as "anarcho-primitivist". Which seems like it should be a bug, since my nation's been in the top 1% for scientific advancement for as long as I can remember.

by Meraud » Sun Sep 06, 2026 6:09 pm

Factbooks of Interest: Wiki-Style Article | Government Structure | Leader Profile | 6Foundations | 8D-PolComp | 8dreams | 8values | 9Axes | Ideosorter | Prism Political Quiz

by Grenartia » Sun Sep 06, 2026 6:37 pm
Bhacil wrote:Grenartia wrote:Odd. The site now says that for at least some of my nation's recent history, it's classified as "anarcho-primitivist". Which seems like it should be a bug, since my nation's been in the top 1% for scientific advancement for as long as I can remember.
You can be high in both according to the original news bulletin about it.

by Czechostan » Sun Sep 06, 2026 8:33 pm

by Barchadi » Sun Sep 06, 2026 8:44 pm
Czechostan wrote:Thenium wrote:oh wow thanks!
Unfortunately I have never seen any nation get commended (is this the right past form?) for creating wikis or things like this, thanks anyway <3
Trotterdam was commended in part for their site that calculates issue stat changes. Your site could definitely become a strong component of a commendation, provided you continue to develop it.
I am having the same issue as Grenartia where my nation is getting classified as anarcho-primitivist. It looks like that happens when a nation gets a high traditionalism score. It seems to me anarcho-primitivism would have to be measured on a separate axis altogether, which would be calculated using the primitivism/scientific advancement stats. A nation with high primitivism and high civil rights/political freedoms might be anarcho-primitivist, while a nation with high primitivism and low civil rights/political freedoms might be feudalism or something. A nation in between would be something like, idk, Greek democracy or classical democracy or something of the sort. But I am not sure if you want to complicate things with an additional axis.

by Barchadi » Sun Sep 06, 2026 8:47 pm

by Czechostan » Sun Sep 06, 2026 9:00 pm
Barchadi wrote:Czechostan wrote:Trotterdam was commended in part for their site that calculates issue stat changes. Your site could definitely become a strong component of a commendation, provided you continue to develop it.
I am having the same issue as Grenartia where my nation is getting classified as anarcho-primitivist. It looks like that happens when a nation gets a high traditionalism score. It seems to me anarcho-primitivism would have to be measured on a separate axis altogether, which would be calculated using the primitivism/scientific advancement stats. A nation with high primitivism and high civil rights/political freedoms might be anarcho-primitivist, while a nation with high primitivism and low civil rights/political freedoms might be feudalism or something. A nation in between would be something like, idk, Greek democracy or classical democracy or something of the sort. But I am not sure if you want to complicate things with an additional axis.
Seems that site has some certificate issues - this is on top of it being blocked by my ISP (Rogers (Canada) - this may be why they've blocked it) and it's blocking visitors from seeing anything unless they disable JavaScript.

by Barchadi » Sun Sep 06, 2026 9:11 pm
Czechostan wrote:Thenium wrote:Yea you're right thanks for telling me, I'm moving it to
Government & diplomacy
I would consider moving residency (along with World Assembly endorsements and survival) to "Population & events," and making that into a sort of miscellaneous category for all of the stats that aren't calculated by issue option selection. You also might consider giving the zombie-related stats their own category altogether, or making those stats hide-able within the population & events section, as they're not all that relevant aside from then Z-Day rolls around.Barchadi wrote:
Seems that site has some certificate issues - this is on top of it being blocked by my ISP (Rogers (Canada) - this may be why they've blocked it) and it's blocking visitors from seeing anything unless they disable JavaScript.
I'm not tech savvy enough to speak on those issues but would recommend checking out the site's forum thread.

by Bagong Timog Mindanao » Sun Sep 06, 2026 10:08 pm

by Puff Mains » Sun Sep 06, 2026 11:01 pm
Thenium wrote:If you have other questions post here or telegram me!
Thenium wrote:I never said your point was wrong, you clearly have more knowledge than me on the topic I only said that calling it entirely luck was wrong since I take into account at least some stats.
Thenium wrote:"And if you concede that doing so is a daunting task, how do you think this difficulty scales when you consider the full number of ideologies?"
I'm pretty sure it either is impossible or extremely difficult (more lenient towards impossible), you would need an extreme amount of different stats, I'm trying to take into account as many NS stats as possible btw it is not finished (I won't use them all tho).
Thenium wrote:"(or to rephrase the question: when is a difference too meaningless or small to express on the chart)?" Probably when I don't have any NS stats to differentiate them but even so I don't think I will ever put more than 75/80 ideologies (im at 63 rn and I'm still not sure if I want to add any more)
Thenium wrote:"What about ideologies that would fit nicely into your chart, but are too niche?"
Do you have any or is this a rhetorical question? As long as they differintiate a bit from the others in terms of NS statistics I could add some of them.
Thenium wrote:" In its place, you can perhaps you can gather data about the types of NS classifications and how much a specific nation differentiates itself from others of the same classification. For example, an Iron-Fist Socialist is usually pretty secular. If a specific Iron-Fist Socialist is 10% more religious than the average Iron-Fist Socialist, that would be good data to put there."
Ok the problem with this might be that NS doesn't keep track of past WA classifications but I will look into it tomorrow because this seems actually good.
Thenium wrote:3. This is interesting wow, I'm italian and I didn't even know there were this many definitions (I only knew the Umberto Eco one tbh)
The definition I cite on my site is this one: "Everything within the state: aggressive nationalism, corporatism, leader cult." it isn't nearly a definition but I only need to give the user an idea of what their nation was classified as.
Thenium wrote:I'll consider the website done when it will be bugless and the 2d compass will take into account a good amount of NS stats (world census report) if you have any suggestion on how to change:
-Ideologies name
-Ideologies short descriptions
-The stats considered to determine certain ideologies
-Or even add some ideologies
Then yes please telegram me you clearly know better than me.
Thenium wrote:Unfortunately I probably won't change the core structure of how the compass works, (even tho it will never be not even nearly perfect as you pointed out) mainly because I don't have the knowledge, the time and the will to do it and also because I want the site to remain simple to understand and use.

by Ringed Seal » Sun Sep 06, 2026 11:04 pm

by Kuromistan » Sun Sep 06, 2026 11:07 pm

by 11nations » Sun Sep 06, 2026 11:09 pm

by Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 12:31 am
Barchadi wrote:Czechostan wrote:Trotterdam was commended in part for their site that calculates issue stat changes. Your site could definitely become a strong component of a commendation, provided you continue to develop it.
I am having the same issue as Grenartia where my nation is getting classified as anarcho-primitivist. It looks like that happens when a nation gets a high traditionalism score. It seems to me anarcho-primitivism would have to be measured on a separate axis altogether, which would be calculated using the primitivism/scientific advancement stats. A nation with high primitivism and high civil rights/political freedoms might be anarcho-primitivist, while a nation with high primitivism and low civil rights/political freedoms might be feudalism or something. A nation in between would be something like, idk, Greek democracy or classical democracy or something of the sort. But I am not sure if you want to complicate things with an additional axis.
Seems that site has some certificate issues - this is on top of it being blocked by my ISP (Rogers (Canada) - this may be why they've blocked it) and it's blocking visitors from seeing anything unless they disable JavaScript.

by Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 12:33 am
11nations wrote:Gahhh, I got Participatory Socialism which is nice, it does sort of match closely to Democratic Councils? (If my assumption is correct?), but I was almost close to Libertarian Socialism :c
Edit: Also, nice that your website allows people to search up their nations without having to add the underscore line, most websites don't do that

by Kuromistan » Mon Sep 07, 2026 12:35 am

by Lipizia » Mon Sep 07, 2026 12:54 am
The Jonio Republic of Lipizia

by Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:07 am
Puff Mains wrote:Thenium wrote:If you have other questions post here or telegram me!Thenium wrote:I never said your point was wrong, you clearly have more knowledge than me on the topic I only said that calling it entirely luck was wrong since I take into account at least some stats.
Thanks mate! And I understand that. I do think your site is great. Its one blindside is one I've seen plenty of others have.Thenium wrote:"And if you concede that doing so is a daunting task, how do you think this difficulty scales when you consider the full number of ideologies?"
I'm pretty sure it either is impossible or extremely difficult (more lenient towards impossible), you would need an extreme amount of different stats, I'm trying to take into account as many NS stats as possible btw it is not finished (I won't use them all tho).
This is the most important part of the issue. The fact that it is likely impossible makes putting in the effort to do it anyway questionable. That is time and energy better spent developing and improving other aspects of the site.Thenium wrote:"(or to rephrase the question: when is a difference too meaningless or small to express on the chart)?" Probably when I don't have any NS stats to differentiate them but even so I don't think I will ever put more than 75/80 ideologies (im at 63 rn and I'm still not sure if I want to add any more)
My point is that the difference between ideologies can't be fully expressed by differences in stats or position on the left/right spectrum. Remember that ideologies are: "clusters of premises. They are forms of analysis. They are disciplines." The difference between fascism and monarchism isn't is the political freedoms stat or the social conservatism stat. It's in the premises they've adopted.
Look at some similar ideologies you have showcased and see how difficult it will be to differentiate them on your site (as well as critiques in the parenthesis):
Anarcho-Communism: Stateless, classless, common ownership: 'from each according to ability, to each according to need'. (Plenty of people would say this is just communism, not a special kind of sub-communism)
Anarcho-Syndicalism: Society run through workers' unions and federations of free communes. (What NS stats would express this as a different form Anarcho-Communism? Why?)
Communism: Totalising state socialism organised by a vanguard party (Marx and Engels advocated for a "withering away of the state", which is far different from the authoritarian bent your definition gives them).
Classical Liberalism: Free markets and civil liberties under a limited constitutional government.
Libertarianism: Free markets and strong individual rights under a minimal state. (The only meaningful difference is that liberalism requires a greater threshold of economic freedom to trigger, which imo is inaccurate tho I could be misreading it. On top of that, the x and y anchor stats of libertarianism are more extreme. While I would say that's fair, the difference between classical liberalism and libertarianism is more than a higher average civil rights/political freedom/economic freedom score. They accept vastly different premises. Speaking generally, liberals will tolerate luxury taxes and libertarians won't because they are operating on completely different frameworks. )
Fascism: Everything within the state: aggressive nationalism, corporatism, leader cult.
Nazism: Biological supremacist totalitarianism; state, race and empire fused. (describes fascism as well. Nazism is a particular kind of fascism. What stats would relay this difference? Slight more authoritarianism? Fascism is explicitly very authoritarian per "Everything within the state" so you don't really have much room to measure one as more authoritarian than the other.)
Though are just a few that suffer from being hard to distinguish from one another. There's also plenty that suffer from having no clear way to interpret from the NS stats. Like:
Luxemburgism: Revolutionary socialism trusting working-class spontaneity; fiercely anti-bureaucratic. (what stat correlates with spontaneity?)
Nazism: Biological supremacist totalitarianism; state, race and empire fused. (what stat correlates with anti-semitism?)
Radical Centrism: Evidence-driven politics that rejects left-right dogma. (what stat correlates with being evidence driven? Perhaps scientific advancement and intelligence, but you don't become those things by rejecting the left-right divide. Also, this is just enlightened centrist rhetoric that would be best avoided entirely.)
Trotskyism: Permanent world revolution; workers' democracy against bureaucratic degeneration. (what stat correlates with permanent revolution? For that matter, what policy does?)
I could go on. NationStates does not provide you the tools to differentiate between these different ideologies and label users accurately.Thenium wrote:"What about ideologies that would fit nicely into your chart, but are too niche?"
Do you have any or is this a rhetorical question? As long as they differintiate a bit from the others in terms of NS statistics I could add some of them.
This was a rhetorical question. The examples I could use aren't suggestions; they're demonstrations about how ideology charts like these are incapable of expressing the essence of these ideologies, let alone differences between similar ones. Take libertarianism vs Geo-libertarianism for example. How would you differentiate libertarianism from libertarianism plus the Georgist premises on your chart? Is geo-libertarianism exactly between libertarianism and georgism? Does that mean geo-socialism is exactly between socialism and georgism? How would that all work? And what nationstates stats correlate with them?
This is an impossible task. And the same could be said for many ideologies you may wish to include here.Thenium wrote:" In its place, you can perhaps you can gather data about the types of NS classifications and how much a specific nation differentiates itself from others of the same classification. For example, an Iron-Fist Socialist is usually pretty secular. If a specific Iron-Fist Socialist is 10% more religious than the average Iron-Fist Socialist, that would be good data to put there."
Ok the problem with this might be that NS doesn't keep track of past WA classifications but I will look into it tomorrow because this seems actually good.
Fair enough. I'm not very tech-savvy, so I have no idea what issues would arise from suggestions like mine lolThenium wrote:3. This is interesting wow, I'm italian and I didn't even know there were this many definitions (I only knew the Umberto Eco one tbh)
The definition I cite on my site is this one: "Everything within the state: aggressive nationalism, corporatism, leader cult." it isn't nearly a definition but I only need to give the user an idea of what their nation was classified as.Thenium wrote:I'll consider the website done when it will be bugless and the 2d compass will take into account a good amount of NS stats (world census report) if you have any suggestion on how to change:
-Ideologies name
-Ideologies short descriptions
-The stats considered to determine certain ideologies
-Or even add some ideologies
Then yes please telegram me you clearly know better than me.Thenium wrote:Unfortunately I probably won't change the core structure of how the compass works, (even tho it will never be not even nearly perfect as you pointed out) mainly because I don't have the knowledge, the time and the will to do it and also because I want the site to remain simple to understand and use.
Tho I hope this doesn't inspire you to try and add all of these, look at the possible work you may have ahead of you. Even removing some of the questionable ideologies from this list that should be there (like wtf is "smiley fascism?") you have your work cut out for you.
IF you were going to include it, which again I don't think is worth your time due to the impossibility of the task, you would want to take FULL advantage of all the data NS provides. That means stats and policies. For example, anarcho-primitivism should require you have the No Aircraft, No Automobiles, No Internet, etc policies. Not just high primitivism.
If you're interested, here's a factbook I made putting various political idelogy tests into a tier list. It might help you on your quest to make this work. Tho again, I reccomend scrapping this section entirely and focusing on other parts to your site.
This is the most important part of the issue. The fact that it is likely impossible makes putting in the effort to do it anyway questionable. That is time and energy better spent developing and improving other aspects of the site.
Anarcho-Communism: Stateless, classless, common ownership: 'from each according to ability, to each according to need'. (Plenty of people would say this is just communism, not a special kind of sub-communism)
Anarcho-Syndicalism: Society run through workers' unions and federations of free communes. (What NS stats would express this as a different form Anarcho-Communism? Why?)
Communism: Totalising state socialism organised by a vanguard party (Marx and Engels advocated for a "withering away of the state", which is far different from the authoritarian bent your definition gives them).
Classical Liberalism: Free markets and civil liberties under a limited constitutional government.
Libertarianism: Free markets and strong individual rights under a minimal state. (The only meaningful difference is that liberalism requires a greater threshold of economic freedom to trigger, which imo is inaccurate tho I could be misreading it. On top of that, the x and y anchor stats of libertarianism are more extreme. While I would say that's fair, the difference between classical liberalism and libertarianism is more than a higher average civil rights/political freedom/economic freedom score. They accept vastly different premises. Speaking generally, liberals will tolerate luxury taxes and libertarians won't because they are operating on completely different frameworks. )
Fascism: Everything within the state: aggressive nationalism, corporatism, leader cult.
Nazism: Biological supremacist totalitarianism; state, race and empire fused. (describes fascism as well. Nazism is a particular kind of fascism. What stats would relay this difference? Slight more authoritarianism? Fascism is explicitly very authoritarian per "Everything within the state" so you don't really have much room to measure one as more authoritarian than the other.)
Luxemburgism: Revolutionary socialism trusting working-class spontaneity; fiercely anti-bureaucratic. (what stat correlates with spontaneity?)
Nazism: Biological supremacist totalitarianism; state, race and empire fused. (what stat correlates with anti-semitism?)
Radical Centrism: Evidence-driven politics that rejects left-right dogma. (what stat correlates with being evidence driven? Perhaps scientific advancement and intelligence, but you don't become those things by rejecting the left-right divide. Also, this is just enlightened centrist rhetoric that would be best avoided entirely.)
Trotskyism: Permanent world revolution; workers' democracy against bureaucratic degeneration.
This was a rhetorical question. The examples I could use aren't suggestions; they're demonstrations about how ideology charts like these are incapable of expressing the essence of these ideologies, let alone differences between similar ones. Take libertarianism vs Geo-libertarianism for example. How would you differentiate libertarianism from libertarianism plus the Georgist premises on your chart? Is geo-libertarianism exactly between libertarianism and georgism? Does that mean geo-socialism is exactly between socialism and georgism? How would that all work? And what nationstates stats correlate with them?
Fair enough. I'm not very tech-savvy, so I have no idea what issues would arise from suggestions like mine lol
That means stats and policies. For example, anarcho-primitivism should require you have the No Aircraft, No Automobiles, No Internet, etc policies. Not just high primitivism.
If you're interested, here's a factbook I made putting various political idelogy tests into a tier list. It might help you on your quest to make this work. Tho again, I reccomend scrapping this section entirely and focusing on other parts to your site.

by Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:10 am
Kuromistan wrote:First, thank you for being so open with us providing suggestions
Second, I think it would be neat if the example nation for each classification changes randomly between all nations holding that classification (at the time of the data being fetched)


by Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:13 am

by Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:19 am


by Lipizia » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:20 am
The Jonio Republic of Lipizia

by Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:23 am
Bagong Timog Mindanao wrote:I have a question regarding to the website. Why is State Atheism classified as an "ideology"? Auth-left to be exact?
And in the world census explorer, why is law enforcement not in the safety and security category?

by Lipizia » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:23 am
Thenium wrote:Anarcho-Primitism
Guys this would be the third time I try to fix Anarcho-Primitism, Puff Mains suggested taking into account the ban on cars and airplanes, while this suggetion would pretty much fix the entire issue it looks like NS doesn't store this information so A-P would never appear in the ideological history of your nation, I'm open to some suggestions on what stats to consider for A-P, and what expected traditionalism for it would you suggest? Rn it is at 44/100 — Mixed which I think could even be lowered but umh I'm gonna wait for you to tell me what to change reguarding this ideology.
The Jonio Republic of Lipizia
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