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Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 47437
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Grenartia » Sun Sep 06, 2026 5:34 pm

Odd. The site now says that for at least some of my nation's recent history, it's classified as "anarcho-primitivist". Which seems like it should be a bug, since my nation's been in the top 1% for scientific advancement for as long as I can remember.
Reject tradition, embrace modernity. People who call themselves based NEVER are.
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Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist (including the imperialism of non-western countries). Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
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Bhacil
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Aug 22, 2026
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bhacil » Sun Sep 06, 2026 6:03 pm

Grenartia wrote:Odd. The site now says that for at least some of my nation's recent history, it's classified as "anarcho-primitivist". Which seems like it should be a bug, since my nation's been in the top 1% for scientific advancement for as long as I can remember.

You can be high in both according to the original news bulletin about it.

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Meraud
Envoy
 
Posts: 243
Founded: Feb 21, 2024
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Meraud » Sun Sep 06, 2026 6:09 pm

Pretty good dossier. Also managed to classify Meraud correctly. :lol:
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Grenartia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 47437
Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Grenartia » Sun Sep 06, 2026 6:37 pm

Bhacil wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Odd. The site now says that for at least some of my nation's recent history, it's classified as "anarcho-primitivist". Which seems like it should be a bug, since my nation's been in the top 1% for scientific advancement for as long as I can remember.

You can be high in both according to the original news bulletin about it.


My primitiveness is stupidly low (currently "Top 100%", 305,XXXk th), and has been for quite some time.
Last edited by Grenartia on Sun Sep 06, 2026 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reject tradition, embrace modernity. People who call themselves based NEVER are.
She or they pronouns, please. Unrepentant transbian. Girlfriend of Jolthig. Steely-eyed missile woman.
Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist (including the imperialism of non-western countries). Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
Basic flag design by me, enhancements by Kuromistan.

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Czechostan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1319
Founded: Apr 23, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Czechostan » Sun Sep 06, 2026 8:33 pm

Thenium wrote:
The Sernetian Empire wrote:ooh nice
well done bro genuinely commendable

oh wow thanks!
Unfortunately I have never seen any nation get commended (is this the right past form?) for creating wikis or things like this, thanks anyway <3

Trotterdam was commended in part for their site that calculates issue stat changes. Your site could definitely become a strong component of a commendation, provided you continue to develop it.



I am having the same issue as Grenartia where my nation is getting classified as anarcho-primitivist. It looks like that happens when a nation gets a high traditionalism score. It seems to me anarcho-primitivism would have to be measured on a separate axis altogether, which would be calculated using the primitivism/scientific advancement stats. A nation with high primitivism and high civil rights/political freedoms might be anarcho-primitivist, while a nation with high primitivism and low civil rights/political freedoms might be feudalism or something. A nation in between would be something like, idk, Greek democracy or classical democracy or something of the sort. But I am not sure if you want to complicate things with an additional axis.

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Barchadi
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 110
Founded: Jul 08, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Barchadi » Sun Sep 06, 2026 8:44 pm

Czechostan wrote:
Thenium wrote:oh wow thanks!
Unfortunately I have never seen any nation get commended (is this the right past form?) for creating wikis or things like this, thanks anyway <3

Trotterdam was commended in part for their site that calculates issue stat changes. Your site could definitely become a strong component of a commendation, provided you continue to develop it.



I am having the same issue as Grenartia where my nation is getting classified as anarcho-primitivist. It looks like that happens when a nation gets a high traditionalism score. It seems to me anarcho-primitivism would have to be measured on a separate axis altogether, which would be calculated using the primitivism/scientific advancement stats. A nation with high primitivism and high civil rights/political freedoms might be anarcho-primitivist, while a nation with high primitivism and low civil rights/political freedoms might be feudalism or something. A nation in between would be something like, idk, Greek democracy or classical democracy or something of the sort. But I am not sure if you want to complicate things with an additional axis.


Seems that site has some certificate issues - this is on top of it being blocked by my ISP (Rogers (Canada) - this may be why they've blocked it) and it's blocking visitors from seeing anything unless they disable JavaScript.


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_____________________________________________________
OOC info: Nick, Canadian. Economically conservative and social moderate. I'm also a diehard monarchist.

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Barchadi
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 110
Founded: Jul 08, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Barchadi » Sun Sep 06, 2026 8:47 pm

Brief update on my nation ideology - it's now showing as Clerical Fascism for every month, rather than Neo-Fascism or Absolute Monarchy.


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_____________________________________________________
OOC info: Nick, Canadian. Economically conservative and social moderate. I'm also a diehard monarchist.

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Czechostan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1319
Founded: Apr 23, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Czechostan » Sun Sep 06, 2026 9:00 pm

Thenium wrote:
Lipizia wrote:Another thing: why "Residency" is in "Enviroment & nature"?

Yea you're right thanks for telling me, I'm moving it to
Government & diplomacy

I would consider moving residency (along with World Assembly endorsements and survival) to "Population & events," and making that into a sort of miscellaneous category for all of the stats that aren't calculated by issue option selection. You also might consider giving the zombie-related stats their own category altogether, or making those stats hide-able within the population & events section, as they're not all that relevant aside from then Z-Day rolls around.

Barchadi wrote:
Czechostan wrote:Trotterdam was commended in part for their site that calculates issue stat changes. Your site could definitely become a strong component of a commendation, provided you continue to develop it.



I am having the same issue as Grenartia where my nation is getting classified as anarcho-primitivist. It looks like that happens when a nation gets a high traditionalism score. It seems to me anarcho-primitivism would have to be measured on a separate axis altogether, which would be calculated using the primitivism/scientific advancement stats. A nation with high primitivism and high civil rights/political freedoms might be anarcho-primitivist, while a nation with high primitivism and low civil rights/political freedoms might be feudalism or something. A nation in between would be something like, idk, Greek democracy or classical democracy or something of the sort. But I am not sure if you want to complicate things with an additional axis.


Seems that site has some certificate issues - this is on top of it being blocked by my ISP (Rogers (Canada) - this may be why they've blocked it) and it's blocking visitors from seeing anything unless they disable JavaScript.

I'm not tech savvy enough to speak on those issues but would recommend checking out the site's forum thread.

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Barchadi
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 110
Founded: Jul 08, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Barchadi » Sun Sep 06, 2026 9:11 pm

Czechostan wrote:
Thenium wrote:Yea you're right thanks for telling me, I'm moving it to
Government & diplomacy

I would consider moving residency (along with World Assembly endorsements and survival) to "Population & events," and making that into a sort of miscellaneous category for all of the stats that aren't calculated by issue option selection. You also might consider giving the zombie-related stats their own category altogether, or making those stats hide-able within the population & events section, as they're not all that relevant aside from then Z-Day rolls around.

Barchadi wrote:
Seems that site has some certificate issues - this is on top of it being blocked by my ISP (Rogers (Canada) - this may be why they've blocked it) and it's blocking visitors from seeing anything unless they disable JavaScript.

I'm not tech savvy enough to speak on those issues but would recommend checking out the site's forum thread.


Thanks for this - found five posts about the same issue from Jan-Dec 2024. Weird - the https site was blocked for me but now it isn't. ISP shenanigans I guess.
Last edited by Barchadi on Sun Sep 06, 2026 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.


♔-Put this in your sig if you’re a Monarchy/Empire
_____________________________________________________
OOC info: Nick, Canadian. Economically conservative and social moderate. I'm also a diehard monarchist.

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Bagong Timog Mindanao
Envoy
 
Posts: 335
Founded: Sep 14, 2021
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Bagong Timog Mindanao » Sun Sep 06, 2026 10:08 pm

I have a question regarding to the website. Why is State Atheism classified as an "ideology"? Auth-left to be exact?
And in the world census explorer, why is law enforcement not in the safety and security category?
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Puff Mains
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Jan 16, 2026
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Puff Mains » Sun Sep 06, 2026 11:01 pm

Thenium wrote:If you have other questions post here or telegram me! :)
Thenium wrote:I never said your point was wrong, you clearly have more knowledge than me on the topic I only said that calling it entirely luck was wrong since I take into account at least some stats.


Thanks mate! And I understand that. I do think your site is great. Its one blindside is one I've seen plenty of others have.

Thenium wrote:"And if you concede that doing so is a daunting task, how do you think this difficulty scales when you consider the full number of ideologies?"
I'm pretty sure it either is impossible or extremely difficult (more lenient towards impossible), you would need an extreme amount of different stats, I'm trying to take into account as many NS stats as possible btw it is not finished (I won't use them all tho).


This is the most important part of the issue. The fact that it is likely impossible makes putting in the effort to do it anyway questionable. That is time and energy better spent developing and improving other aspects of the site.

Thenium wrote:"(or to rephrase the question: when is a difference too meaningless or small to express on the chart)?" Probably when I don't have any NS stats to differentiate them but even so I don't think I will ever put more than 75/80 ideologies (im at 63 rn and I'm still not sure if I want to add any more)


My point is that the difference between ideologies can't be fully expressed by differences in stats or position on the left/right spectrum. Remember that ideologies are: "clusters of premises. They are forms of analysis. They are disciplines." The difference between fascism and monarchism isn't is the political freedoms stat or the social conservatism stat. It's in the premises they've adopted.

Look at some similar ideologies you have showcased and see how difficult it will be to differentiate them on your site (as well as critiques in the parenthesis):

Anarcho-Communism: Stateless, classless, common ownership: 'from each according to ability, to each according to need'. (Plenty of people would say this is just communism, not a special kind of sub-communism)
Anarcho-Syndicalism: Society run through workers' unions and federations of free communes. (What NS stats would express this as a different form Anarcho-Communism? Why?)
Communism: Totalising state socialism organised by a vanguard party (Marx and Engels advocated for a "withering away of the state", which is far different from the authoritarian bent your definition gives them).

Classical Liberalism: Free markets and civil liberties under a limited constitutional government.
Libertarianism: Free markets and strong individual rights under a minimal state. (The only meaningful difference is that liberalism requires a greater threshold of economic freedom to trigger, which imo is inaccurate tho I could be misreading it. On top of that, the x and y anchor stats of libertarianism are more extreme. While I would say that's fair, the difference between classical liberalism and libertarianism is more than a higher average civil rights/political freedom/economic freedom score. They accept vastly different premises. Speaking generally, liberals will tolerate luxury taxes and libertarians won't because they are operating on completely different frameworks. )

Fascism: Everything within the state: aggressive nationalism, corporatism, leader cult.
Nazism: Biological supremacist totalitarianism; state, race and empire fused. (describes fascism as well. Nazism is a particular kind of fascism. What stats would relay this difference? Slight more authoritarianism? Fascism is explicitly very authoritarian per "Everything within the state" so you don't really have much room to measure one as more authoritarian than the other.)

Though are just a few that suffer from being hard to distinguish from one another. There's also plenty that suffer from having no clear way to interpret from the NS stats. Like:

Luxemburgism: Revolutionary socialism trusting working-class spontaneity; fiercely anti-bureaucratic. (what stat correlates with spontaneity?)
Nazism: Biological supremacist totalitarianism; state, race and empire fused. (what stat correlates with anti-semitism?)
Radical Centrism: Evidence-driven politics that rejects left-right dogma. (what stat correlates with being evidence driven? Perhaps scientific advancement and intelligence, but you don't become those things by rejecting the left-right divide. Also, this is just enlightened centrist rhetoric that would be best avoided entirely.)
Trotskyism: Permanent world revolution; workers' democracy against bureaucratic degeneration. (what stat correlates with permanent revolution? For that matter, what policy does?)

I could go on. NationStates does not provide you the tools to differentiate between these different ideologies and label users accurately.

Thenium wrote:"What about ideologies that would fit nicely into your chart, but are too niche?"
Do you have any or is this a rhetorical question? As long as they differintiate a bit from the others in terms of NS statistics I could add some of them.


This was a rhetorical question. The examples I could use aren't suggestions; they're demonstrations about how ideology charts like these are incapable of expressing the essence of these ideologies, let alone differences between similar ones. Take libertarianism vs Geo-libertarianism for example. How would you differentiate libertarianism from libertarianism plus the Georgist premises on your chart? Is geo-libertarianism exactly between libertarianism and georgism? Does that mean geo-socialism is exactly between socialism and georgism? How would that all work? And what nationstates stats correlate with them?

This is an impossible task. And the same could be said for many ideologies you may wish to include here.

Thenium wrote:" In its place, you can perhaps you can gather data about the types of NS classifications and how much a specific nation differentiates itself from others of the same classification. For example, an Iron-Fist Socialist is usually pretty secular. If a specific Iron-Fist Socialist is 10% more religious than the average Iron-Fist Socialist, that would be good data to put there."

Ok the problem with this might be that NS doesn't keep track of past WA classifications but I will look into it tomorrow because this seems actually good.


Fair enough. I'm not very tech-savvy, so I have no idea what issues would arise from suggestions like mine lol

Thenium wrote:3. This is interesting wow, I'm italian and I didn't even know there were this many definitions (I only knew the Umberto Eco one tbh)
The definition I cite on my site is this one: "Everything within the state: aggressive nationalism, corporatism, leader cult." it isn't nearly a definition but I only need to give the user an idea of what their nation was classified as.

Thenium wrote:I'll consider the website done when it will be bugless and the 2d compass will take into account a good amount of NS stats (world census report) if you have any suggestion on how to change:
-Ideologies name
-Ideologies short descriptions
-The stats considered to determine certain ideologies
-Or even add some ideologies
Then yes please telegram me you clearly know better than me.
Thenium wrote:Unfortunately I probably won't change the core structure of how the compass works, (even tho it will never be not even nearly perfect as you pointed out) mainly because I don't have the knowledge, the time and the will to do it and also because I want the site to remain simple to understand and use.


Tho I hope this doesn't inspire you to try and add all of these, look at the possible work you may have ahead of you. Even removing some of the questionable ideologies from this list that should be there (like wtf is "smiley fascism?") you have your work cut out for you.

IF you were going to include it, which again I don't think is worth your time due to the impossibility of the task, you would want to take FULL advantage of all the data NS provides. That means stats and policies. For example, anarcho-primitivism should require you have the No Aircraft, No Automobiles, No Internet, etc policies. Not just high primitivism.

If you're interested, here's a factbook I made putting various political idelogy tests into a tier list. It might help you on your quest to make this work. Tho again, I reccomend scrapping this section entirely and focusing on other parts to your site.
Last edited by Puff Mains on Sun Sep 06, 2026 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ringed Seal
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 44
Founded: Feb 08, 2025
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ringed Seal » Sun Sep 06, 2026 11:04 pm

HAHA!
I'm a Democratic Socialist!
Finally an accurate ideology for my nation :3
Last edited by Ringed Seal on Sun Sep 06, 2026 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kuromistan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5899
Founded: Mar 24, 2026
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Kuromistan » Sun Sep 06, 2026 11:07 pm

The ideology thingy is nice and fun, judging by all the people who come in and talk about it (including me at the start)
It does not have to be 100% accurate, people can of course canonize it or not, their call really
Thus, I am against it being scrapped
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11nations
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Apr 22, 2018
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby 11nations » Sun Sep 06, 2026 11:09 pm

Gahhh, I got Participatory Socialism which is nice, it does sort of match closely to Democratic Councils? (If my assumption is correct?), but I was almost close to Libertarian Socialism :c

Edit: Also, nice that your website allows people to search up their nations without having to add the underscore line, most websites don't do that
Last edited by 11nations on Sun Sep 06, 2026 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thenium
Attaché
 
Posts: 92
Founded: Jun 12, 2025
Anarchy

Postby Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 12:31 am

Barchadi wrote:
Czechostan wrote:Trotterdam was commended in part for their site that calculates issue stat changes. Your site could definitely become a strong component of a commendation, provided you continue to develop it.



I am having the same issue as Grenartia where my nation is getting classified as anarcho-primitivist. It looks like that happens when a nation gets a high traditionalism score. It seems to me anarcho-primitivism would have to be measured on a separate axis altogether, which would be calculated using the primitivism/scientific advancement stats. A nation with high primitivism and high civil rights/political freedoms might be anarcho-primitivist, while a nation with high primitivism and low civil rights/political freedoms might be feudalism or something. A nation in between would be something like, idk, Greek democracy or classical democracy or something of the sort. But I am not sure if you want to complicate things with an additional axis.


Seems that site has some certificate issues - this is on top of it being blocked by my ISP (Rogers (Canada) - this may be why they've blocked it) and it's blocking visitors from seeing anything unless they disable JavaScript.

I can't find that site anywhere can you put the link here please?
Hi I'm Thenium (pronounce it like this: ˈtʰɛ.ˌnjumːˑ ), I don't really have anything to say.
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I also vibe-coded a website related to NS you might find interesting :https://nationstates-dossier-explorer.vercel.app/

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Thenium
Attaché
 
Posts: 92
Founded: Jun 12, 2025
Anarchy

Postby Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 12:33 am

11nations wrote:Gahhh, I got Participatory Socialism which is nice, it does sort of match closely to Democratic Councils? (If my assumption is correct?), but I was almost close to Libertarian Socialism :c

Edit: Also, nice that your website allows people to search up their nations without having to add the underscore line, most websites don't do that


Do you think I should have taken into account any other stats? Or that some of the stats taken into account shouldn't give you this ideology?
Hi I'm Thenium (pronounce it like this: ˈtʰɛ.ˌnjumːˑ ), I don't really have anything to say.
I'm a chill person.
I also vibe-coded a website related to NS you might find interesting :https://nationstates-dossier-explorer.vercel.app/

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Kuromistan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5899
Founded: Mar 24, 2026
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Kuromistan » Mon Sep 07, 2026 12:35 am

First, thank you for being so open with us providing suggestions

Second, I think it would be neat if the example nation for each classification changes randomly between all nations holding that classification (at the time of the data being fetched)
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Economic Left/Right: -5.0 | Social Lib/Auth: -4.46 | Civ Class: 1.33 | Canon population: 10 million + (NS population/10000)
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Lipizia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 450
Founded: May 01, 2026
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Lipizia » Mon Sep 07, 2026 12:54 am

Thenium wrote:
Lipizia wrote:Hey, I think that "Communism" should be not so authoritarian. I created Arenar 5 as a total doictatorship and I expected not to see only "communism". Could you add "Tyrannism", please?

Unfortunately Tyrannism is not an ideology

Beh, so you could create "Radical Authoritarism".
Last edited by TRUMP on Tue Sep 15, 2026 at 11:02 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Thenium
Attaché
 
Posts: 92
Founded: Jun 12, 2025
Anarchy

Postby Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:07 am

(Response for Puff Mains)
Puff Mains wrote:
Thenium wrote:If you have other questions post here or telegram me! :)
Thenium wrote:I never said your point was wrong, you clearly have more knowledge than me on the topic I only said that calling it entirely luck was wrong since I take into account at least some stats.


Thanks mate! And I understand that. I do think your site is great. Its one blindside is one I've seen plenty of others have.

Thenium wrote:"And if you concede that doing so is a daunting task, how do you think this difficulty scales when you consider the full number of ideologies?"
I'm pretty sure it either is impossible or extremely difficult (more lenient towards impossible), you would need an extreme amount of different stats, I'm trying to take into account as many NS stats as possible btw it is not finished (I won't use them all tho).


This is the most important part of the issue. The fact that it is likely impossible makes putting in the effort to do it anyway questionable. That is time and energy better spent developing and improving other aspects of the site.

Thenium wrote:"(or to rephrase the question: when is a difference too meaningless or small to express on the chart)?" Probably when I don't have any NS stats to differentiate them but even so I don't think I will ever put more than 75/80 ideologies (im at 63 rn and I'm still not sure if I want to add any more)


My point is that the difference between ideologies can't be fully expressed by differences in stats or position on the left/right spectrum. Remember that ideologies are: "clusters of premises. They are forms of analysis. They are disciplines." The difference between fascism and monarchism isn't is the political freedoms stat or the social conservatism stat. It's in the premises they've adopted.

Look at some similar ideologies you have showcased and see how difficult it will be to differentiate them on your site (as well as critiques in the parenthesis):

Anarcho-Communism: Stateless, classless, common ownership: 'from each according to ability, to each according to need'. (Plenty of people would say this is just communism, not a special kind of sub-communism)
Anarcho-Syndicalism: Society run through workers' unions and federations of free communes. (What NS stats would express this as a different form Anarcho-Communism? Why?)
Communism: Totalising state socialism organised by a vanguard party (Marx and Engels advocated for a "withering away of the state", which is far different from the authoritarian bent your definition gives them).

Classical Liberalism: Free markets and civil liberties under a limited constitutional government.
Libertarianism: Free markets and strong individual rights under a minimal state. (The only meaningful difference is that liberalism requires a greater threshold of economic freedom to trigger, which imo is inaccurate tho I could be misreading it. On top of that, the x and y anchor stats of libertarianism are more extreme. While I would say that's fair, the difference between classical liberalism and libertarianism is more than a higher average civil rights/political freedom/economic freedom score. They accept vastly different premises. Speaking generally, liberals will tolerate luxury taxes and libertarians won't because they are operating on completely different frameworks. )

Fascism: Everything within the state: aggressive nationalism, corporatism, leader cult.
Nazism: Biological supremacist totalitarianism; state, race and empire fused. (describes fascism as well. Nazism is a particular kind of fascism. What stats would relay this difference? Slight more authoritarianism? Fascism is explicitly very authoritarian per "Everything within the state" so you don't really have much room to measure one as more authoritarian than the other.)

Though are just a few that suffer from being hard to distinguish from one another. There's also plenty that suffer from having no clear way to interpret from the NS stats. Like:

Luxemburgism: Revolutionary socialism trusting working-class spontaneity; fiercely anti-bureaucratic. (what stat correlates with spontaneity?)
Nazism: Biological supremacist totalitarianism; state, race and empire fused. (what stat correlates with anti-semitism?)
Radical Centrism: Evidence-driven politics that rejects left-right dogma. (what stat correlates with being evidence driven? Perhaps scientific advancement and intelligence, but you don't become those things by rejecting the left-right divide. Also, this is just enlightened centrist rhetoric that would be best avoided entirely.)
Trotskyism: Permanent world revolution; workers' democracy against bureaucratic degeneration. (what stat correlates with permanent revolution? For that matter, what policy does?)

I could go on. NationStates does not provide you the tools to differentiate between these different ideologies and label users accurately.

Thenium wrote:"What about ideologies that would fit nicely into your chart, but are too niche?"
Do you have any or is this a rhetorical question? As long as they differintiate a bit from the others in terms of NS statistics I could add some of them.


This was a rhetorical question. The examples I could use aren't suggestions; they're demonstrations about how ideology charts like these are incapable of expressing the essence of these ideologies, let alone differences between similar ones. Take libertarianism vs Geo-libertarianism for example. How would you differentiate libertarianism from libertarianism plus the Georgist premises on your chart? Is geo-libertarianism exactly between libertarianism and georgism? Does that mean geo-socialism is exactly between socialism and georgism? How would that all work? And what nationstates stats correlate with them?

This is an impossible task. And the same could be said for many ideologies you may wish to include here.

Thenium wrote:" In its place, you can perhaps you can gather data about the types of NS classifications and how much a specific nation differentiates itself from others of the same classification. For example, an Iron-Fist Socialist is usually pretty secular. If a specific Iron-Fist Socialist is 10% more religious than the average Iron-Fist Socialist, that would be good data to put there."

Ok the problem with this might be that NS doesn't keep track of past WA classifications but I will look into it tomorrow because this seems actually good.


Fair enough. I'm not very tech-savvy, so I have no idea what issues would arise from suggestions like mine lol

Thenium wrote:3. This is interesting wow, I'm italian and I didn't even know there were this many definitions (I only knew the Umberto Eco one tbh)
The definition I cite on my site is this one: "Everything within the state: aggressive nationalism, corporatism, leader cult." it isn't nearly a definition but I only need to give the user an idea of what their nation was classified as.

Thenium wrote:I'll consider the website done when it will be bugless and the 2d compass will take into account a good amount of NS stats (world census report) if you have any suggestion on how to change:
-Ideologies name
-Ideologies short descriptions
-The stats considered to determine certain ideologies
-Or even add some ideologies
Then yes please telegram me you clearly know better than me.
Thenium wrote:Unfortunately I probably won't change the core structure of how the compass works, (even tho it will never be not even nearly perfect as you pointed out) mainly because I don't have the knowledge, the time and the will to do it and also because I want the site to remain simple to understand and use.


Tho I hope this doesn't inspire you to try and add all of these, look at the possible work you may have ahead of you. Even removing some of the questionable ideologies from this list that should be there (like wtf is "smiley fascism?") you have your work cut out for you.

IF you were going to include it, which again I don't think is worth your time due to the impossibility of the task, you would want to take FULL advantage of all the data NS provides. That means stats and policies. For example, anarcho-primitivism should require you have the No Aircraft, No Automobiles, No Internet, etc policies. Not just high primitivism.

If you're interested, here's a factbook I made putting various political idelogy tests into a tier list. It might help you on your quest to make this work. Tho again, I reccomend scrapping this section entirely and focusing on other parts to your site.


This is the most important part of the issue. The fact that it is likely impossible makes putting in the effort to do it anyway questionable. That is time and energy better spent developing and improving other aspects of the site.

Like what aspect? As of right now the most "controversial" one is the compass which is being updated everyday

Anarcho-Communism: Stateless, classless, common ownership: 'from each according to ability, to each according to need'. (Plenty of people would say this is just communism, not a special kind of sub-communism)
Anarcho-Syndicalism: Society run through workers' unions and federations of free communes. (What NS stats would express this as a different form Anarcho-Communism? Why?)
Communism: Totalising state socialism organised by a vanguard party (Marx and Engels advocated for a "withering away of the state", which is far different from the authoritarian bent your definition gives them).

How do you think I should change the names? Or do you think these ideologies shouldn't be on the site?

Classical Liberalism: Free markets and civil liberties under a limited constitutional government.
Libertarianism: Free markets and strong individual rights under a minimal state. (The only meaningful difference is that liberalism requires a greater threshold of economic freedom to trigger, which imo is inaccurate tho I could be misreading it. On top of that, the x and y anchor stats of libertarianism are more extreme. While I would say that's fair, the difference between classical liberalism and libertarianism is more than a higher average civil rights/political freedom/economic freedom score. They accept vastly different premises. Speaking generally, liberals will tolerate luxury taxes and libertarians won't because they are operating on completely different frameworks. )


The main thing my site considers different at the moment is the compass position, I should probably make libertarianism a tad bit more Ideologically Radical to differentiate the 2 better.

Fascism: Everything within the state: aggressive nationalism, corporatism, leader cult.
Nazism: Biological supremacist totalitarianism; state, race and empire fused. (describes fascism as well. Nazism is a particular kind of fascism. What stats would relay this difference? Slight more authoritarianism? Fascism is explicitly very authoritarian per "Everything within the state" so you don't really have much room to measure one as more authoritarian than the other.)


Do you think I should unite the 2 in like Nazi-Fascism? I want to keep at least one of them tbh

Luxemburgism: Revolutionary socialism trusting working-class spontaneity; fiercely anti-bureaucratic. (what stat correlates with spontaneity?)

Now that I think about it I could take into account (just for this one) the workers enthusiasm that is calculated with the NSeconomy model, do you think this makes it better?

Worker enthusiasm, willingness to supply labour
Base value 1, modified by the civil-rights, political-freedom and tax terms. Formula: 1 + CivilRightsModifier + PoliticalFreedomModifier + TaxModifier. Tax contribution: 0% adds +0.02; each subsequent ten-point bracket decreases the modifier by approximately 0.02 (10% → 0…−0.02, 30% → −0.04…−0.06, 90% → −0.16…−0.18), interpolated within the bracket.


Nazism: Biological supremacist totalitarianism; state, race and empire fused. (what stat correlates with anti-semitism?)

Umhhh I don't know maybe it's better if I unite it with fascism? Or I just keep fascism and remove nazism?

Radical Centrism: Evidence-driven politics that rejects left-right dogma. (what stat correlates with being evidence driven? Perhaps scientific advancement and intelligence, but you don't become those things by rejecting the left-right divide. Also, this is just enlightened centrist rhetoric that would be best avoided entirely.)

I'll remove it thanks for the feedback

Trotskyism: Permanent world revolution; workers' democracy against bureaucratic degeneration.


I could maybe use the workers enthusiasm and the consumer confidence since these stats in some way implie that people trust how things are being run in their nation/society?

The good thing is that I can invent my stats by merging some of them (the NS ones or the NSeconomy ones), if you have any idea let me know!

This was a rhetorical question. The examples I could use aren't suggestions; they're demonstrations about how ideology charts like these are incapable of expressing the essence of these ideologies, let alone differences between similar ones. Take libertarianism vs Geo-libertarianism for example. How would you differentiate libertarianism from libertarianism plus the Georgist premises on your chart? Is geo-libertarianism exactly between libertarianism and georgism? Does that mean geo-socialism is exactly between socialism and georgism? How would that all work? And what nationstates stats correlate with them?

Yea well you're right

Fair enough. I'm not very tech-savvy, so I have no idea what issues would arise from suggestions like mine lol

No worries lol, I still like getting suggestions

That means stats and policies. For example, anarcho-primitivism should require you have the No Aircraft, No Automobiles, No Internet, etc policies. Not just high primitivism.


THANKS, I think this is the fix to all the people telling me the way Anarcho-primitism is calculated at the moment is partly wrong I just hope NS stores the policies you had once.

If you're interested, here's a factbook I made putting various political idelogy tests into a tier list. It might help you on your quest to make this work. Tho again, I reccomend scrapping this section entirely and focusing on other parts to your site.

Thanks for the factbook but I don't think I will remove the compass, it is not meant to be perfect as long as some people like it, it's enough for me lol, hope you understand.
Hi I'm Thenium (pronounce it like this: ˈtʰɛ.ˌnjumːˑ ), I don't really have anything to say.
I'm a chill person.
I also vibe-coded a website related to NS you might find interesting :https://nationstates-dossier-explorer.vercel.app/

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Postby Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:10 am

Kuromistan wrote:First, thank you for being so open with us providing suggestions

Second, I think it would be neat if the example nation for each classification changes randomly between all nations holding that classification (at the time of the data being fetched)

That's what I'm trying to do but since the site is still in development it is pretty much broken because the ideologies of nations keep changing, I added a small fix, if you click on one example nation and it is the wrong ideology my site will try to find another one asap (another example nation for the ideology) , and I should also mention that when you open a dossier of a nation that nation is automatically registered in the pool for the example nations. :roll:
Hi I'm Thenium (pronounce it like this: ˈtʰɛ.ˌnjumːˑ ), I don't really have anything to say.
I'm a chill person.
I also vibe-coded a website related to NS you might find interesting :https://nationstates-dossier-explorer.vercel.app/

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Postby Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:13 am

Lipizia wrote:
Thenium wrote:Unfortunately Tyrannism is not an ideology

Beh, so you could create "Radical Authoritarism".

at the moment I have Authoritarianism what stats would change from it?
Concentrated executive power with little tolerance for dissent.
Hi I'm Thenium (pronounce it like this: ˈtʰɛ.ˌnjumːˑ ), I don't really have anything to say.
I'm a chill person.
I also vibe-coded a website related to NS you might find interesting :https://nationstates-dossier-explorer.vercel.app/

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Postby Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:19 am

Anarcho-Primitism

Guys this would be the third time I try to fix Anarcho-Primitism, Puff Mains suggested taking into account the ban on cars and airplanes, while this suggetion would pretty much fix the entire issue it looks like NS doesn't store this information so A-P would never appear in the ideological history of your nation, I'm open to some suggestions on what stats to consider for A-P, and what expected traditionalism for it would you suggest? Rn it is at 44/100 — Mixed which I think could even be lowered but umh I'm gonna wait for you to tell me what to change reguarding this ideology. :)
Hi I'm Thenium (pronounce it like this: ˈtʰɛ.ˌnjumːˑ ), I don't really have anything to say.
I'm a chill person.
I also vibe-coded a website related to NS you might find interesting :https://nationstates-dossier-explorer.vercel.app/

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Postby Lipizia » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:20 am

Thenium wrote:
Lipizia wrote:Beh, so you could create "Radical Authoritarism".

at the moment I have Authoritarianism what stats would change from it?
Concentrated executive power with little tolerance for dissent.

Beh it would have even less civil rights, even less political freedom, few economic freedom anyway and little governement.
Probably also traditionalist.
Last edited by TRUMP on Tue Sep 15, 2026 at 11:02 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: BECAUSE I'M ALMIGHTY MUAHAHAHAH AND BECAUSE ITALY IS MY PUPPET


The Jonio Republic of Lipizia

(He/Him, They/Them.)I'm a left-leaning "Climate apocalist", or, for conservatives, an eco-fascist. In the authoriarian-libertarin scale, centrist, maybe a bit libertarian. My factbooks are in phase of traduction and of creation, the must be ready about in 2027. The nation DOESN'T reflect a lot my political ideas.
What? Autocracy?
Political tests
Some sus things wroten by influent nations!
THEESE PEOPLE NEED YOU.
IC stuffOOC stuff

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Postby Thenium » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:23 am

Bagong Timog Mindanao wrote:I have a question regarding to the website. Why is State Atheism classified as an "ideology"? Auth-left to be exact?
And in the world census explorer, why is law enforcement not in the safety and security category?

The state atheism pretty much references to "ex - communist" countries that imposed atheism so yea pretty much this, I'm open to critiques.

I will change the position of law enforcment rn thank for telling me
Hi I'm Thenium (pronounce it like this: ˈtʰɛ.ˌnjumːˑ ), I don't really have anything to say.
I'm a chill person.
I also vibe-coded a website related to NS you might find interesting :https://nationstates-dossier-explorer.vercel.app/

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Postby Lipizia » Mon Sep 07, 2026 1:23 am

Thenium wrote:Anarcho-Primitism

Guys this would be the third time I try to fix Anarcho-Primitism, Puff Mains suggested taking into account the ban on cars and airplanes, while this suggetion would pretty much fix the entire issue it looks like NS doesn't store this information so A-P would never appear in the ideological history of your nation, I'm open to some suggestions on what stats to consider for A-P, and what expected traditionalism for it would you suggest? Rn it is at 44/100 — Mixed which I think could even be lowered but umh I'm gonna wait for you to tell me what to change reguarding this ideology. :)

For me personally, anarcho-primitism is ok how it's now. Maybe in effect it should be only for nation with at least... 20? (In the Big Number Scale)
Last edited by TRUMP on Tue Sep 15, 2026 at 11:02 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: BECAUSE I'M ALMIGHTY MUAHAHAHAH AND BECAUSE ITALY IS MY PUPPET


The Jonio Republic of Lipizia

(He/Him, They/Them.)I'm a left-leaning "Climate apocalist", or, for conservatives, an eco-fascist. In the authoriarian-libertarin scale, centrist, maybe a bit libertarian. My factbooks are in phase of traduction and of creation, the must be ready about in 2027. The nation DOESN'T reflect a lot my political ideas.
What? Autocracy?
Political tests
Some sus things wroten by influent nations!
THEESE PEOPLE NEED YOU.
IC stuffOOC stuff

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