factual error in a liberation proposal

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

They want their region back, and you don't want to give up your control. It's obvious what your motive is here regarding the factual error. Any tiny loophole to avoid having those whose region you took get it back legally.

The mods are human. We can only review everything so much.

If the mods don't have time to review it AT ALL, then I say its pretty obvious that we need new moderators or more. What kind of excuse is it that there is no time to review anything?

And you really are the last person to talk about motives, the way you phrased the bolded sentence.

For the record, myself and the DEN Army have not been getting along on the best term for the last year. Of course you wouldn't know because you don't follow it or care, which leads to the point if you don't follow it or care about it, why should anyone listen to your assumptions about it?

You ... do realize that this whole 'invade/defend' game so many of you are so deeply invested in was not an original intent of the game, but was allowed and attempted to work with as things progressed? I'm sure if it were a matter of doing the 'easier' thing, they could just ban it altogether and we'd not have to have these constant longwinded rants from one side or the other about the matter.

Give it some time, let them do some looking and figure out the rather twisted course of events that's likely lead to y'all getting your shorts in a twist before leaping up and pointing the finger of accusation like that. They're human just the same as the rest of you, and have an entire site to watch over, not just play referee with a bunch of players who seem dead set on keeping things as stirred as they can with their gameplay. Which is how a lot of us who don't participate end up viewing a lot of this, btw. Lotta fuss over 'who can be the bigger dick' when it comes to messing around with people's regions.

[Kryozerkia]

They want their region back, and you don't want to give up your control. It's obvious what your motive is here regarding the factual error. Any tiny loophole to avoid having those whose region you took get it back legally.

The mods are human. We can only review everything so much.

If the mods don't have time to review it AT ALL, then I say its pretty obvious that we need new moderators or more. What kind of excuse is it that there is no time to review anything?

And you really are the last person to talk about motives, the way you phrased the bolded sentence.

For the record, myself and the DEN Army have not been getting along on the best term for the last year. Of course you wouldn't know because you don't follow it or care, which leads to the point if you don't follow it or care about it, why should anyone listen to your assumptions about it?

I have zero interest vested in Belgium or any other region up for liberation.

What I am seeing here is a bunch of petty nitpicking from someone who doesn't like the way things are shaping up. Ard and Eras et al have made it clear. There are rules for C&C. There is also the place where the line is drawn. Someone's always going to be unhappy with where that line is.

Way back, when C&Cs first fell on our heads, I mentioned that a condemnation might be deliberately based on false information, and it would take mods hours to sort through what was true and what wasn't. The admins' reply then (you won't find this on the forums) was that the mods sweeping the queue SHOULD NOT test C&C proposals for truth.

First, because the process wouldn't be entirely visible. We like transparency. Which mod cut a proposal and why is visible to admins. But "it wasn't true" is not transparent.

It allows too much possibility of misinterpretation: what is "true" when discussing, say, a raider action, often varies with the position and attitudes of the speaker. Mods shouldn't be required to take sides on such a thing because then we get back to the sort of confusion, including accusations of mod bias, that bedevilled the pre-influence days.

As Ard is saying, we can't make everyone happy and the last thing we should be doing is making judgment calls on factual accuracy.

But what New Rockport is asking here is not a ruling on a technicality, based on the wording of the proposal; it's the other sort of ruling, the one mods've been specifically told not to give.

Which seems to, for me, mean: we're here to make sure the game rules are followed, not to do your fact checking.

[The Most Glorious Hack]

If the mods don't have time to review it AT ALL, then I say its pretty obvious that we need new moderators or more. What kind of excuse is it that there is no time to review anything?

The mods don't have time to look at every single Liberation Proposal, contact every single person involved to check every single claim made within. And then have the ability to magically tell who is lying and who is exaggerating.

It's not a matter of not having enough people on staff. It's a matter of not having Jesus Christ on staff.

[Crazy girl]

*crosses that name of her list of possible identities for [violet]*

Thanks, Hack.

[Folsom Gateholder]

you Fendas are pitiful if you have to resort to asking to WA in interfere with the rule abiding raiders. raiding regions is completely by the rule which is something you fendas need to learn how to do look at the region New Folsom hacked by fendas who had an admin as a friend

[Euroslavia]

you Fendas are pitiful if you have to resort to asking to WA in interfere with the rule abiding raiders. raiding regions is completely by the rule which is something you fendas need to learn how to do look at the region New Folsom hacked by fendas who had an admin as a friend

This isn't the place to take out your aggression against 'defenders'. As a matter of fact, this is probably the worst place to start up some sort of debate or get a rise out of someone. This also isn't the place for accusations. You will receive a warning next time it happens.

[Ardchoille]

<snip> look at the region New Folsom hacked by fendas who had an admin as a friend

Are you seriously, seriously suggesting that one of the admins helped a bunch of players hack a region? Don't you realise how serious an accusation that is? If people really believed that the admins and mods were fiddling with the game mechanism or couldn't be trusted to stay impartial in game operations, they'd leave in droves -- no point in playing a stacked game. Which would probably end up costing us NationStates, since a site like this depends on its player base.

If you had the slightest shred of evidence that what you're saying is true, you should have been shouting it from the rooftops. The fact that you've only just now decided to mention it as a throwaway line in a comment directed to something else does cast a certain amount of doubt on your sincerity. Nonetheless, if you've got it, give: none of the admins or mods would hesitate to deal with a colleague whose actions undermined our reputations along with their own.

So: put up or shut up.

To put up: you can submit a Getting Help request with all the details of who, when and how that you can muster. It will be seen by all the Game Mods and the Admins. There would be no hope of any single person covering it up (unless you would like to imagine all of us, in all our different countries all round the world, somehow united in a conspiracy against you.)

Or, in this thread, there's an email address for [violet].

To shut up: do it right now. Euro has told you what will happen if you continue. None of us has any sympathy for folk who take out their frustrations over minor game events by attacking the people who give up hours of their time, free, to keep the game running.

As it seems to me that the original query has been answered, iLock. If anyone has further comments on SC rules, take them to the appropriate threads in the SC.