Sticky?

[Valipac]

Not sure what it exactly takes, but this thread could use it. The OP at least.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=456

[Kryozerkia]

I believe industrial strength glue ought to do the trick...

[Loria Aesir]

It has my vote, get it set with concrete.

[Scolopendra]

Not with that "Is This The Right Sub-Forum For Me?" section. It only serves to reinforce an unfortunate forum segregation, and (understandably) shows the author's biases regarding said segregation.

Unfortunate, too, since the rest is worth stickying.

[Third Spanish States]

Not with that "Is This The Right Sub-Forum For Me?" section. It only serves to reinforce an unfortunate forum segregation, and (understandably) shows the author's biases regarding said segregation.

Yes, it is biased, but there is no incentive to a "segregation" that is as natural as the formation of High School cliques, and that was intended to avoid people leaving NS due to mistaken generalization of its entirety in only one of the RP subforums.

The fact is that there are just very few people who are sufficiently eccletic to enjoy the feel and usual style of roleplay in every sub-forum of NationStates. Not everyone likes making threads about sports, not everyone likes to discuss in IRC what will happen and likes to focus on character interaction, not everyone likes the instability, usually nation-centric roleplay and variable thread quality of International Incidents.

It is as natural as the segregation between NSG and the RP forums. Different people have different interests, and thus most will have a limited scope of interests that will lean them towards one of the given sub-forums.

*Edit: Besides, there is the fact the RP forums were split in four here, as before there were only two RP forums. This isn't the sort of structural change in NS forums that would help avoiding this "unfortunate forum segregation". Other than that, there is also the fact I was inspired this thread when I did that section, a thread I found by its link in "A Guide to NationStates Forum". That linked thread's "Pick your Poison" section, although less biased, would also "reinforce" the separation of NS players through different sub-forums.

[Erastide]

Even as a non roleplayer your "how to choose a sub-forum" part is objectionable. The very fact that you say "Yes, it's biased" means it has no place being in a sticky. The goal would be to guide people to a good experience, not make them feel like idiots or any less a "real man" because they don't want to play in II like you do. Your personal thoughts don't really belong there.

It would be nice to have 1 general sticky that starts off with just "what is RP" like the other one did to help people end up in the appropriate place.

Perhaps you should get someone well versed in the Sports area to write you a blurb about sports. And put the version below for NationStates, because yours is pretty derogatory.

NationStates – Often simply called “NS”, this is not to be confused with the Game of NationStates we all play. This forum was the original, hence why it shares a name, but it is just one of the many forums nowadays. NS concentrates on character-oriented story/roleplays, often which have incredibly detail and take months to write out. They are very scripted, and so tend to have a high degree of quality but little unexpected behavior. NS rarely engages in wars, and when it does, they are mainly focused on a few key people, with the war as the setting. Obviously, there are exceptions, but NS has had only five World Wars, compared to the millions of International Incidents. NS is the home of the “story” style of writing, where the plot and characters can be used for years, and war takes a backseat.

International Incidents – Referred to as “II”, this forum is the most active room for playing. II is noted for its quick, unexpected roleplays, mainly full-out war, storefronts, and new-technology declarations. II roleplays are generally open, unscripted affairs, which leads to a great deal of freedom, but also risks competitive thinking that can send an RP spiraling into Flamewars and IGNORES. If you’re here to flex military might, II is your place, but be warned, not everyone finds you so “powerful”, and you’re likely to get dog-piled. Fast-paced, unscripted, and turbulent, II is the place to be for adrenaline RPing, but be wary of the chaos that can result.

[Layarteb]

Why are we arguing about "segregation" here? The thread got stickied, thanks to the Mods, it was definitely worthy of it. It can be used as a model for other "How-to" threads for other forums, even NS as NS is heavy on grammar just the same as II, despite the nature of the RPs in both forums being vastly different.

@ Erastide, there's a natural bias in this as it was written by II for II. There'd be the same bias with one made by someone from NS for NS and so on and so fourth. It's got quality info in it and there's been a lot of additions to it as well that have thoroughly expanded it.

We're making a mountain out of a mole hill here with this.

[Kryozerkia]

Given that there are several RP forums, I read the topic of "is this forum right for you" to mean, is it right for what you want to roleplay/post? After all, people know if you want to discuss current events, you go to General, books, you go to fiction, et cetera. You wouldn't role play a sports event in II unless the sports event was the prelude to the actual international incident.

[Erastide]

I'm not arguing for it to be taken down or anything, more saying it needs some improvement. My assumption is that it will get read by people that don't know what they're doing or what the natural division is. At the moment that's the only sticky in II, and I personally would prefer it to be less biased for the newcomers.

Perhaps an idea would be 1 common sticky for all the RP sections that in the first post provides a brief blurb on all of them entitled something like, "Where do I want to RP" with links to the various forums. Then each forum can have subsequent posts on how to RP in that specific forum once you get there.

[Kryozerkia]

i wasn't trying to argue, I just though I should make my intentions clear since I was the one who did sticky it. I thought I should account for my actions.

[Layarteb]

How about a modification then to the "What Forum Should I Be In" to just include a summary of each of the subforums here and move the opinion of II vs. the rest to just idle chit-chat? If that's a compromise it'd be fair because the volume of info in that sticky is definitely not something we'd want to lose & have to retype.

How's this for a proposal:

International Incidents is the place for Real Men, as its threads are usually more action-packed, and sometimes ridden with intrigue and diplomacy(which will sooner or later also end in wars), or for people who are looking first to roleplay with all its involved unpredictability and little railroading, rather than to make a collaborative, more or less linear story. Unless you want to roleplay threads with preset Endings and outcomes in their plot development, and unless you are totally averted to any kind of action, it will be your primary subforums for roleplaying in NationStates.

Personally, I have chosen International Incidents because I am not a fan of sports stories and movies, and because even the threads I created or joined that are Semi-Closed are not entirely predictable. I never ask the other player or players I roleplay with how he/they intend(s) to make his/their character(s) or nation(s) react to something beforehand, nor I would like to let a roleplay flow in a preset, previously agreed upon manner. Of course such thrill from the lack of predictability(the same which makes the difference between watching a good movie with and without reading its spoilers first) has its disadvantages, most related to the fact there are also some Munchkins in International Incidents, just as there are some Mary Sues in both NationStates and International Incidents, both from older(and even from some "reputable"* older NSes you'll soon hear about, believe me or not. Their identities are irrelevant to the purpose of this thread so they will not be given) and newer NationStates players. Of course, once you get the hang of it, you'll either learn how to avoid them, or to counter their antics and sometimes quite well written absurdities.

Note that the mentions on International Incidents and NationStates are stereotypes of their typical types of roleplay threads. There are threads involving wars in NationStates just as there will be threads involving entirely nonviolent interactions between characters of different NationStates in International Incidents. However, on general, these archetypes are the most commonly seen.

*I have a certain skepticism about using the word "reputation" when mentioning the Internet.

International Incidents is a whole different world than other forums. Threads are usually more action-packed and sometimes written with intrigue and diplomacy (which sooner or later also end in wars). They're for people who are looking first to roleplay with all its involved unpredictability and little railroading, rather than to make a collaborate, linear story. International Incidents is not the forum for predefined outcomes whether in plot development or ending. You can certainly guide towards a desired plot but, as real life politics is, the desired isn't always what happens. Threads on International Incidents, even those that are Semi-Closed, are not entirely predictable. You are given almost the most amount of freedom to create characters and story lines and to incorporate them throughout the world of "Nation-States" with the threads here. The lack of predictability is what makes threads exciting in International Incidents and even those that fall in story form can play out like turn-for-turn RPs. The drawback to this is a steeper learning curve and a higher degree of frustration as International Incidents is packed with both veteran and new players and nearly everything goes, especially when it's written and RP'd properly. As with everything learning the ropes of International Incidents cannot simply happen overnight and the longer you persist at it, the better you will become, though that is true for every forum here.

[Erastide]

I guess my idea is a thread where the original post is common to all the RP forums and then the next post would be something like what Third Spanish States wrote. Not getting rid of that kind of info/guide, but prefacing it with an unbiased guide to the various parts. And if you like one, you click a link and it takes you to the in depth info on that type of RP. That way each sub section can write something catchy/interesting (while still a bit informative) to give people an incentive to explore.

Any of the Sports people reading this and have an idea for a blurb?

[Zwangzug]

Any of the Sports people reading this and have an idea for a blurb?

Not sure how long you want it, but something like "Sports roleplaying is the roleplaying of matches or games between national or club teams (or among individuals) in sports such as football (soccer), 'American' football, ice hockey, or other real-life and fictional sports. Rather than allowing roleplayers to come up with the scores or results of the competitions, the results are generated by the hosts of the tournaments. Often, many editions of the same competition will take place over time, allowing a ranking system to develop and influence the results of future tournaments. The actual roleplaying can range from simple newspaper reports describing the action to elaborate sidestories."

Here's the new Sports RP sticky and here's the Sports RP wiki article if that helps people come up with something better.

[Erastide]

Possible first post:

Which RP forum would I like?

You may decide that you want to post in 1 or more of the RP forums here on NationStates. Below is a short description of each forum and a link to more in depth info on that forum to help you decide which is best for your style of roleplay. Following that is a more in depth description of the forum you are currently reading in, ______________________________.

NationStates:
Often simply called “NS”, this is not to be confused with the Game of NationStates we all play. This forum was the original, hence why it shares a name, but it is just one of the many forums nowadays. NS concentrates on character-oriented story/roleplays, often which have incredibly detail and take months to write out. They are very scripted, and so tend to have a high degree of quality but little unexpected behavior. NS rarely engages in wars, and when it does, they are mainly focused on a few key people, with the war as the setting. Obviously, there are exceptions, but NS has had only five World Wars, compared to the millions of International Incidents. NS is the home of the “story” style of writing, where the plot and characters can be used for years, and war takes a backseat.
If this sounds interesting, [url]follow this link[/url] to the NationStates forum and more info.

International Incidents:
International Incidents, often referred to as "II", is a whole different world than other forums. Threads are usually more action-packed and sometimes written with intrigue and diplomacy (which sooner or later also end in wars). They're for people who are looking first to roleplay with all its involved unpredictability and little railroading, rather than to make a collaborative, linear story. International Incidents is not the forum for predefined outcomes whether in plot development or ending. You can certainly guide towards a desired plot but the desired outcome is not always what happens. Threads on International Incidents, even those that are Semi-Closed, are not entirely predictable. You are given a large amount of freedom to create characters and story lines and to incorporate them throughout the world of "Nation-States" with the threads here. The lack of predictability is what makes threads exciting in International Incidents and even those that fall in story form can play out like turn-for-turn RPs. The drawback to this is a steeper learning curve and a higher degree of frustration as International Incidents is packed with both veteran and new players and nearly everything goes, especially when it's written and RP'd properly. As with everything, learning the ropes of International Incidents cannot simply happen overnight and the longer you persist at it, the better you will become, though that is true for every forum here.
If this sounds interesting, [url]follow this link[/url] to the International Incidents forum and more info.

NS Sports:
Sports roleplaying is the roleplaying of matches or games between national or club teams (or among individuals) in sports such as football (soccer), 'American' football, ice hockey, or other real-life and fictional sports. Rather than allowing roleplayers to come up with the scores or results of the competitions, the results are generated by the hosts of the tournaments. Often, many editions of the same competition will take place over time, allowing a ranking system to develop and influence the results of future tournaments. The actual roleplaying can range from simple newspaper reports describing the action to elaborate sidestories.
If this sounds interesting, [url]follow this link[/url] to the NS Sports forum and more info.

Global Economics and Trade
Should this get a mention? I know it's new, but can anyone think of a blurb to describe what should go in it?

[Somewhereistonia]

Global Economics and Trade
Should this get a mention? I know it's new, but can anyone think of a blurb to describe what should go in it?

Looking at what's currently in the trade forum, some kind of sticky may be useful to help new players learn what kind of things to post, instead of just posting a list of pictures/links or whatever. As this stuff is mostly taken from II someone from there who also has/had an established storefront should probably write it.

The rest of it looks good.

[Scolopendra]

I agree with Somewhereistonia, although I think the statement "is a whole different world than other forums" is a bit unnecessary. It's not all that different; it just has a slightly different stereotype and ruling clique is all.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Have to insert a mild exception here to the NS summation:

Unexpected things happen all the time in RPs. Everything is not scripted out. Some players are more willing to discuss ooc'ly rather than just leap to conclusions and 'waaaaaaar' over minor things is all. I would say from my experience, from the players I've been involved with - which are admittedly a minority - there's just more communication and less in-thread ooc spam.

A lot of the things that are referenced about 'little war' and 'conflict as a background' has evolved over the years, and does not reflect a lot of the history of the forum itself. As new players have joined, and older players have remained where they started, or have dropped off the map, or become largely inactive, the two original RP forums have become more polarized, and for a number of reasons, more isolated from one another. It hasn't always been the case, and there are still players who interact in both with their nation. Sometimes in different incarnations so as to keep timelines in keeping with each forum's unwritten rules of acceptability.

Some of the differences I've noticed that are readily apparent:

NS - few to no 'multiple Earth' incarnations. Many accept that reality is broken, and the fact that some nations seem to take up the same geographical space simultaneously, or share similar histories without historically interacting, or any other number of differences is just 'one of those odd things' that happens in the multiverse.

II - Too many 'multiple Earth' incarnations to keep track of, due to many players preferring to hold 'RL' nations, or in some cases, RP out sublimating familiar nations and governments without having to deal with other players mucking up their storylines.

NS - No one 'tech level' predominates. Nations run the gamut between Magic-based, Modern, Post-Modern, Future, Far Future, Alien, what have you - with many interacting without regard to who 'ought' to be able to interact or not.

II - More well-defined separations of tech levels with an emphasis on tech and designs and how they measure up within each sub-section.

NS - Diplomacy seems to take a front seat before all-out war is declared, and often though not always, war is not seen as 'preferable' to more peaceable solutions.

II - Nations seem to operate under the fear or expectation of war, diplomacy seems to be used to threaten or forward power play agendas.

Both - Nations accepted by either the majority, or large enough groups of players to make a difference, as holding, controlling, influencing various geographical/celestial areas, representing acceptable levels of tech, etiquette, behavior, and posting styles.

To sum it up - both forums are what we as players have made them, and each has its strengths, weaknesses, and player groups. Neither one is superior to the other, and any given player's comfort level within them is dependent on said player's game-style preferences.

Dunno if that helps, makes a difference, or is just redundant, but there you have it. People need to hang around both, and dabble a bit before making informed choices, if indeed they need to choose between either at all.

[Ardchoille]

In a spirit of mischief, allow me to mention that the World Assembly is also an RPing forum -- or, if it's not, somebody's getting away with massive amounts of flaming.

We don't need much. The WA stickies discuss WA roleplay in exhausting (and yes, I do mean -ing, not -ive) detail.

So, how would this be:

The World Assembly

is where frequently sober delegates, ambassadors and other riff-raff try to improve the multiverse one resolution at a time, with the usual skullduggery, ideological pig-headedness, various forms of excess and a lot of high-sounding putdowns. Many succeed, despite the interventions of their governments and the Chicago lawyers who wrote the ruleset.

[Layarteb]

I haven't seen any "Earths" here on new forums yet and why the disdain towards them.

[Erastide]

Have to insert a mild exception here to the NS summation:

Care to modify the descriptions at all? Given my complete lack of knowledge of RP I don't feel comfortable doing it. I just like organization.

[Crookfur]

Global Economics and Trade
Should this get a mention? I know it's new, but can anyone think of a blurb to describe what should go in it?

Looking at what's currently in the trade forum, some kind of sticky may be useful to help new players learn what kind of things to post, instead of just posting a list of pictures/links or whatever. As this stuff is mostly taken from II someone from there who also has/had an established storefront should probably write it.

The rest of it looks good.

A stickie for the trade forum would be very useful, as it stands it is just... depressing. Although to be fair its not really any worse than some of the stuff from jolt II it is just more obvious and doesn't drown as quickly. IIRC there were some store front guides on jolt that might help.

One possible fear would be making things too proscritive (the draftroom effect).


hhhmmm I'll try and work on soemthign over the next few days.