[R] Threadjack

[Spirit of Hope]

American politics thread has spent the last page + arguing about if the Nazis were socialist. While certainly an interesting debate it hasn't really been connecting it to American Politics.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=531849&start=2225

[Ameriganastan]

In addition to the threadjack, I'd like to add on that The Proud Transphobe is pretty flamebaity. He's political naming, which I know is an offense, and he's just kind of a troll in general. He's been trolling the trans thread for days.

I didn't expect you to. As ever, you are very happy to make all sorts of negative assumptions without proof. It's the modus operandi of many on the left these days.

- The whole pronoun issue is not only a blatant attack on freedom of speech, but it is incredibly disrespectful. The point of language is to communicate your own thoughts and feelings. We can debate exactly what "man" and "woman" mean all day, but it is ultimately irrelevant when the whole point of a speaker saying "he" or "she" is to communicate how they perceive the person they are referring to. If in my worldview a person is a man, I am going to use "he/him" to describe them. You are free to have your own definitions, but I'll use words according to my definitions. It is impolite to demand that I conform to your definitions.

The point is, there is no line you aren't willing to cross in the name of whatever you consider to be - however arbitrarily - a trans right. That said, insofar as the trans movement wants to extend bodily autonomy to consenting adults, protect trans people from violent attacks (no, "microaggressions" are not violence), and just generally live in society doing their own thing, I'm all for it. Go do your thing, enjoy life, be happy, etc.... I don't care so long as it doesn't mess with me. But it is pretty clear to the rest of us you don't want to just stay in your own lane. You want special privileges at the expense of others' rights and dignity. And that is the problem.

[Eahland]

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1610047

I want to add that "The Proud Transphobe" seems to me to be pretty intrinsically trolly. The nation seems to have been named specifically and deliberately to cause offense and provoke angry responses. I gather that sigs are held to a higher standard than post content, because they often can't be properly debated without threadjacking. Does that not apply to nation names as well?

[-Pashtunistan]

https://forum.nationstates.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1610047

I want to add that "The Proud Transphobe" seems to me to be pretty intrinsically trolly. The nation seems to have been named specifically and deliberately to cause offense and provoke angry responses. I gather that sigs are held to a higher standard than post content, because they often can't be properly debated without threadjacking. Does that not apply to nation names as well?

If I am not mistaken I think I remember mods having said already that the name "The Proud Transphobe" is alright. Once again, I may be wrong.

[Luna Amore]

Reminder given about the threadjack.

---

In addition to the threadjack, I'd like to add on that The Proud Transphobe is pretty flamebaity. He's political naming, which I know is an offense, and he's just kind of a troll in general. He's been trolling the trans thread for days.

I didn't expect you to. As ever, you are very happy to make all sorts of negative assumptions without proof. It's the modus operandi of many on the left these days.

- The whole pronoun issue is not only a blatant attack on freedom of speech, but it is incredibly disrespectful. The point of language is to communicate your own thoughts and feelings. We can debate exactly what "man" and "woman" mean all day, but it is ultimately irrelevant when the whole point of a speaker saying "he" or "she" is to communicate how they perceive the person they are referring to. If in my worldview a person is a man, I am going to use "he/him" to describe them. You are free to have your own definitions, but I'll use words according to my definitions. It is impolite to demand that I conform to your definitions.

The point is, there is no line you aren't willing to cross in the name of whatever you consider to be - however arbitrarily - a trans right. That said, insofar as the trans movement wants to extend bodily autonomy to consenting adults, protect trans people from violent attacks (no, "microaggressions" are not violence), and just generally live in society doing their own thing, I'm all for it. Go do your thing, enjoy life, be happy, etc.... I don't care so long as it doesn't mess with me. But it is pretty clear to the rest of us you don't want to just stay in your own lane. You want special privileges at the expense of others' rights and dignity. And that is the problem.

I don't see flamebait or political nicknaming. The first quote 'many on the left' is closest, but I don't think it rises to moderator action.

The name 'The Proud Transphobe' has been reported and ruled not actionable multiple times. The poster is admittedly arguing an unpopular opinion, but it does look to be in earnest and not specifically as trolling.

[Fienia Sat5]

Reminder given about the threadjack.

---

In addition to the threadjack, I'd like to add on that The Proud Transphobe is pretty flamebaity. He's political naming, which I know is an offense, and he's just kind of a troll in general. He's been trolling the trans thread for days.

I don't see flamebait or political nicknaming. The first quote 'many on the left' is closest, but I don't think it rises to moderator action.

The name 'The Proud Transphobe' has been reported and ruled not actionable multiple times. The poster is admittedly arguing an unpopular opinion, but it does look to be in earnest and not specifically as trolling.

*** Don't use the moderation red-text warning tags. ***

[Luna Amore]

Reminder given about the threadjack.

---

I don't see flamebait or political nicknaming. The first quote 'many on the left' is closest, but I don't think it rises to moderator action.

The name 'The Proud Transphobe' has been reported and ruled not actionable multiple times. The poster is admittedly arguing an unpopular opinion, but it does look to be in earnest and not specifically as trolling.

*** Don't use the moderation red-text warning tags. ***

*** 1 day ban for using the warn tag ***
This applies to you the player. Any nations that circumvent this may be deleted.

[Senkaku]

The name 'The Proud Transphobe' has been reported and ruled not actionable multiple times. The poster is admittedly arguing an unpopular opinion, but it does look to be in earnest and not specifically as trolling.

Just a clarifying question— can people also make nations called “the proud homophobe” or “the proud black-hater” or “the proud misogynist” or “the proud antisemite” or whatever, then, as long as their arguing of such opinions looks to Moderation staff be in earnest?

[United Calanworie]

The name 'The Proud Transphobe' has been reported and ruled not actionable multiple times. The poster is admittedly arguing an unpopular opinion, but it does look to be in earnest and not specifically as trolling.

Just a clarifying question— can people also make nations called “the proud homophobe” or “the proud black-hater” or “the proud misogynist” or “the proud antisemite” or whatever, then, as long as their arguing of such opinions looks to Moderation staff be in earnest?

Moderation does not rule on hypotheticals.

[Juristonia]

No longer a hypothetical.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1727981

[Senkaku]

No longer a hypothetical.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1727981

Well, God forbid anyone have to tap the sign, right? Seems pretty earnest though, not like there's any obvious violations in the content of their post or in their national info, if TPT's pass the smell test. Do we know TPT isn't also someone's puppet, hmm?

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1727977
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1727995
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1727985

Are any of these actionable? Are all of them actionable? Or am I just going to get slapped for pressing the question, and Moderation will punt the question until an actual unique user comes along and tries the same shit? Why exactly is such an obviously provocative naming convention permissible-- what purpose does it serve other than to let trolls incite reactions, and is it only permissible for targeting some groups but not for others? When an actual unique user with such inclinations comes along, would this exact content be acceptable coming from them, or is that still too much of a voodoo-y unknowable hypothetical?

[The Archregimancy]

I've initiated a discussion of some of the points raised here within the moderation team.

Given that this is a holiday weekend for many, this may take a few days to resolve. My thanks for your patience.

[Juristonia]

Cheers, Arch.

While heated, Senkaku does bring up a good point.
It seems.. odd that it's within the rules to be actively bigoted (Which you are when choosing a name like that. Not to mention most of the content posted) as long as you just mean it for realsies.

[Ethel mermania]

I've initiated a discussion of some of the points raised here within the moderation team.

Given that this is a holiday weekend for many, this may take a few days to resolve. My thanks for your patience.

I thought names and flags were moderated to a tighter standard than pist content because they couldn't be argued against.

[Sedgistan]

This isn't a discussion thread; it's a report thread, and all the forumside reports made here have been handled.

"The Proud Transphobe" was reported previously, considered by the team, and ruled okay. The team discussion is now on Senkaku's rules lawyering puppet creations.

There is no need for further commentary in the meantime; I am therefore locking the thread. Any further reports of posts in the American Politics thread can be posted in a new report thread.