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Changing of DEN punishments.

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.

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RiderSyl
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6309
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:34 pm

Sedgistan wrote:I suspect there's precious few legitimate actors who would want to put the substantial effort in to rehabilitate any of those brands -- I stand by my assessment that DEN are remembered as "the most notorious group of cheaters in NS history" -- which means you'd get the bad actors trying to do so. Does the invader community want teenage edgelords and the lurking remnants of TBR-DEN reviving the group -- what good comes of that?


Well said. The suggestion by Flanderlion to give it back to someone like Of Crazed shows we're not even close to approaching the idea of a DEN revival as responsibly as we should. Of Crazed was always more offended that DEN was caught than anything else, and constantly argued in bad faith regarding DEN's involvement in Predator. "94 Block knows how to respect my memory" is a real quote by them, post-Predator, post-Grand Central, post-"NSGP knowing Block was no good". Enough said.

Other old DEN heads, pre-TBR? They joined the revival of DEN by Gest and were active in the organization in its first few months. I remember how cool it felt in that Skype group to be among all the old raiders and hear their stories. Look at the Predator punishments, and you'll see Nordic Arbor on the list. Nordic Arbor was one of the few old heads that didn't go inactive by the time the Predator investigation came around.

So which pre-TBR, old DEN person do you actually give it to? How do you know which ones were aware of Predator's true nature before they went inactive, and which ones weren't? How do you know which ones returned and which ones didn't? I didn't keep a list and folks like Halcones and Gest sure aren't speaking up. How do you know you're not handling the region to someone with sympathies for the same type of invaders that fucked us over to begin with? You don't. That's the answer.

Raiders today may be boring to some people. They may not be hardcore enough to make things fun. Playing Russian roulette with the ownership of the organization that nearly ended Gameplay for all of us... that's not the solution.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Luziyca
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38285
Founded: Nov 13, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:36 pm

Sedgistan wrote:It turns out we discussed this back in June, and the consensus was to delete the region, it just never got followed up. But now it has -- but with no warning/punishment attached to the founder.

So, will the Den name be protected to prohibit it from being re-created in the future?

I ask since I created "Den" to see if that name had been banned by the mods from being used, and I could easily create a region under that name.
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Flanderlion
Minister
 
Posts: 2226
Founded: Nov 25, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Flanderlion » Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:38 pm

Luziyca wrote:
Sedgistan wrote:It turns out we discussed this back in June, and the consensus was to delete the region, it just never got followed up. But now it has -- but with no warning/punishment attached to the founder.

So, will the Den name be protected to prohibit it from being re-created in the future?

I ask since I created "Den" to see if that name had been banned by the mods from being used, and I could easily create a region under that name.

I'd assume that the site would prevent founding the region like before. It obviously isn't, but I'm guessing admins have other things to do than adding it to the banned region name list.
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Sedgistan
Site Director
 
Posts: 35473
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:06 am

Luziyca wrote:
Sedgistan wrote:It turns out we discussed this back in June, and the consensus was to delete the region, it just never got followed up. But now it has -- but with no warning/punishment attached to the founder.

So, will the Den name be protected to prohibit it from being re-created in the future?

I ask since I created "Den" to see if that name had been banned by the mods from being used, and I could easily create a region under that name.

Did you read anything in this thread at all? The region had just been shut down. What there makes you think it's okay for you to go and create it again?

Since common sense seems to be eluding some people, I've moved a puppet in and set it as founder to prevent anyone else doing the same.

There is a technical block on creating regions with "DEN" in the name. We cannot easily extend that to non-capitalised versions of the name without running into the Scunthorpe problem, and there may be innocuous regions that use that word in their name. We have to rely on common sense, and the vigilance of players, to prevent people founding lowercase versions of all the historical variants.

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Durm
Attaché
 
Posts: 99
Founded: Jun 16, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Durm » Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:23 am

Drop Your Pants wrote:
Sedgistan wrote:Speaking for myself, and not the team as a whole, I'd need to hear more convincing arguments than about their flags, to want to see the bans removed.

Are the flags even banned? Theres still a few around NS.

AFAIK both the flags and the DEN theme are allowed for nations.

(I don't think one of the flags being Ile de France's region banner is legal, though.)
Last edited by Durm on Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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