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Regarding Regions & Nations Glorifying Nazi Ideology

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.

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Tornado Queendom
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Postby Tornado Queendom » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:57 pm

Katganistan wrote:Players can no longer create regions or nations with names containing the word "nazi," and moderators will remove existing regions and nations with that word, except where it's obviously benign in nature (such as "Alliance Against Nazis").

What Hasn't Changed
Site policy has long prohibited content that appears to celebrate or endorse violence against real-life people. This includes creating nations in the image of Nazi Germany, because of its close association with the Holocaust. This remains the case, whether or not such nations or regions use the specific word "nazi."

What Has Changed & Why
(1) We've added "nazi" to the list of blocked words that cannot be used in a name when creating a nation or region. This was actually the case previously, but the word was removed from the blocklist in 2016 as some players wanted to use it in benign contexts (such as "Alliance Against Nazis"). From 2016 to now, it was not auto-blocked, but instead those nations were manually assessed by moderators. The block is returning because it led to policy violations slipping under the radar.

Additionally, many "trophy" regions have been captured over the years by gameplay groups who oppose nazi-style ideologies, and while these regions now have no malicious intent, they probably appear malicious to people who see their names and never click through to examine their details. The new word block means these regions can be allowed to expire, as opposed to the previous situation where they had to be held indefinitely to prevent another player from refounding them.

(2) When determining whether a nation or region violates site policy, we now judge names on their own, regardless of context. This is a change because previously we've looked at the entire package of a nation or region to judge its name in context with its flag and other custom fields. The problem with this practice is that moderators primarily examine nations and regions when they are first created, and so sometimes nations or regions pass muster at first, then later, away from moderator scrutiny, adopt a more malicious context via flags, slogans, and other custom fields.

Summary

It is no longer possible to create or revive a nation or region with a name that contains "nazi."
Existing nations and regions with names containing "nazi" will be removed by moderators unless those names are, by themselves, clearly not an attempt to evoke Nazi Germany.
If an existing nation/region's name contains "nazi" in a clearly non-malicious way, it will not be removed, but if it ceases to exist through inactivity, it cannot be restored.

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Coronational Chechyans and affiliates
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Postby Coronational Chechyans and affiliates » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:46 pm

Is there going to be more coming? Is the rebel flag still ok?

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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:53 pm

Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:Is the rebel flag still ok?

It hasn't' been OK since about 1866, but it's been tolerated when it wasn't used with other offensive content. Even most southerners recognize the inherently racist nature of that flag and what it stands for. You could probably find a better way to express your 'pride'.

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Coronational Chechyans and affiliates
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Postby Coronational Chechyans and affiliates » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:39 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:Is the rebel flag still ok?

It hasn't' been OK since about 1866, but it's been tolerated when it wasn't used with other offensive content. Even most southerners recognize the inherently racist nature of that flag and what it stands for. You could probably find a better way to express your 'pride'.

Here's a poll from CNN https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics ... index.html

57% of Americans DO NOT see the flag as a racist symbol. Only 16% of republicans believe the flag has racist intentions. I would care more about what liberals find offense but the trump years taught me that anything and everything can be labeled as racist.

The flag I have is for Ole Miss so it's not really a political statement and more about my favourite college team.
Last edited by Coronational Chechyans and affiliates on Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nazi Flower Power
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Postby Nazi Flower Power » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:27 pm

Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:
The flag I have is for Ole Miss so it's not really a political statement and more about my favourite college team.


Dafuq are they still using that for? :shock:
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:43 pm

Nazi Flower Power wrote:
Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:
The flag I have is for Ole Miss so it's not really a political statement and more about my favourite college team.


Dafuq are they still using that for? :shock:

Apparently they removed the State flag with the Confederate symbol in 2015. The old man is also no longer their mascot. Ole Miss has apparently been endeavouring to distance themselves from Confederate symbols.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Coronational Chechyans and affiliates
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Postby Coronational Chechyans and affiliates » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:49 pm

The Free Joy State wrote:
Nazi Flower Power wrote:
Dafuq are they still using that for? :shock:

Apparently they removed the State flag with the Confederate symbol in 2015. The old man is also no longer their mascot. Ole Miss has apparently been endeavouring to distance themselves from Confederate symbols.


Where are you getting this info? They just changed the flag literally this year in 2021. And if you Google Ole Miss rebels the flag I have is literally the sixth result on Google images.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ole+mis ... 12&bih=764

Also tbf I live in Lee county named after Robert e Lee. So I can we how a place like where I live would have a different attitude seeing the flag. Here it's normal people with shirts and trucks with it I understand if your in new York or something you might not be used to seeing it and only associate it with bad things.
Last edited by Coronational Chechyans and affiliates on Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:56 pm

Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:Apparently they removed the State flag with the Confederate symbol in 2015. The old man is also no longer their mascot. Ole Miss has apparently been endeavouring to distance themselves from Confederate symbols.


Where are you getting this info? They just changed the flag literally this year in 2021. And if you Google Ole Miss rebels the flag I have is literally the sixth result on Google images.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ole+mis ... 12&bih=764

From the Ole Miss site:
Their flag:
Image


And their mascot is Tony the Landshark.

Not wanting to threadjack with this, but the symbolism is pretty obvious, and it's not the sports team.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Coronational Chechyans and affiliates
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Postby Coronational Chechyans and affiliates » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:38 am

So your just going to ignore the fact that I literally posted where this all came from? Or how that has been their flag for decades before this new pretty boring version? The dishonesty is strong in this ine
Colonel Reb was that mascot for 80 years. Tony has been their for what five?

As for thread jacking I never asked for your opinion or input. All I asked is if it was permitted or against he new site rules. Your the one who decided he knows What's in a strangers heart better then they do.
Last edited by Coronational Chechyans and affiliates on Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:46 am

Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:So your just going to ignore the fact that I literally posted where this all came from? Or how that has been their flag for decades before this new pretty boring version? The dishonesty is strong in this ine
Colonel Reb was that mascot for 80 years. Tony has been their for what five?

Before that, they had Rebel the Bear from 2010.

Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:As for thread jacking I never asked for your opinion or input. All I asked is if it was permitted or against he new site rules. Your the one who decided he knows What's in a strangers heart better then they do.

I entered the conversation by informing a fellow player that they have not had the State Confederate flag on campus or the mascot said to resemble a plantation owner since 2015 and 2010 respectively.

If you want to continue to go to bat for what the university chose to distance itself from, that's for you. But I am done with this conversation.

EDIT: Incidentally, the link that hosted it led to the "home for all your confederate memorabilia". Stands to reason they'd have it. Now, I really am done.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:01 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Coronational Chechyans and affiliates
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Postby Coronational Chechyans and affiliates » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:21 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:So your just going to ignore the fact that I literally posted where this all came from? Or how that has been their flag for decades before this new pretty boring version? The dishonesty is strong in this ine
Colonel Reb was that mascot for 80 years. Tony has been their for what five?

Before that, they had Rebel the Bear from 2010.

Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:As for thread jacking I never asked for your opinion or input. All I asked is if it was permitted or against he new site rules. Your the one who decided he knows What's in a strangers heart better then they do.

I entered the conversation by informing a fellow player that they have not had the State Confederate flag on campus or the mascot said to resemble a plantation owner since 2015 and 2010 respectively.

If you want to continue to go to bat for what the university chose to distance itself from, that's for you. But I am done with this conversation.

EDIT: Incidentally, the link that hosted it led to the "home for all your confederate memorabilia". Stands to reason they'd have it. Now, I really am done.

Ah yes the ancient mysterious days of 2015. What a troll

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Sedgistan
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Postby Sedgistan » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:32 am

Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:Ah yes the ancient mysterious days of 2015. What a troll

Stop posting in this thread. You asked your question, and got an answer. Your follow up posts have been increasingly hostile and non-constructive, and you're the one verging closer to trolling. Given you're the player with a history of creating a KKK region with the Nazi 14 words in the WFE, I don't think anyone is going to look favourably on your intent here.

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Coronational Chechyans and affiliates
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Postby Coronational Chechyans and affiliates » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:45 am

Sedgistan wrote:
Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:Ah yes the ancient mysterious days of 2015. What a troll

Stop posting in this thread. You asked your question, and got an answer. Your follow up posts have been increasingly hostile and non-constructive, and you're the one verging closer to trolling. Given you're the player with a history of creating a KKK region with the Nazi 14 words in the WFE, I don't think anyone is going to look favourably on your intent here.

The entire point of that discussion was to show the problem with the old way of moderation. The new way makes sense, if you have Nazi in the term it's banned. Previously if you had a "captured"nation it was ok but the exact same region would be banned. The whole point of the last time we had this discussion was that the rule should be changed which now the moderators seem to have come around to that idea.

The new rule makes more sense. Easier to make a blanket ban and not have to examine fringe cases
Last edited by Coronational Chechyans and affiliates on Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Heritick Farmland
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Postby Heritick Farmland » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:07 am

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:Is the rebel flag still ok?

It hasn't' been OK since about 1866, but it's been tolerated when it wasn't used with other offensive content. Even most southerners recognize the inherently racist nature of that flag and what it stands for. You could probably find a better way to express your 'pride'.

:clap:

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Fedel
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Postby Fedel » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:01 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:Is the rebel flag still ok?

It hasn't' been OK since about 1866, but it's been tolerated when it wasn't used with other offensive content. Even most southerners recognize the inherently racist nature of that flag and what it stands for. You could probably find a better way to express your 'pride'.


And I'm sure they'll have to once the site bans its use as well. :roll:

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Coronational Chechyans and affiliates
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Postby Coronational Chechyans and affiliates » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:39 pm

Fedel wrote:
Frisbeeteria wrote:It hasn't' been OK since about 1866, but it's been tolerated when it wasn't used with other offensive content. Even most southerners recognize the inherently racist nature of that flag and what it stands for. You could probably find a better way to express your 'pride'.


And I'm sure they'll have to once the site bans its use as well. :roll:

It's a sad day when nation-states begins their descent into censorship

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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:36 pm

Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:It's a sad day when nation-states begins their descent into censorship

Check your calendar. I believe that day was sometime in late 2002 or early 2003 when Max originally posted the FAQ, which states:
The FAQ/Etiquette wrote:> It's free speech, so I can post whatever I like here, right?

Ahahahaha! Hahaha! Free speech! No, it's not. I run this web site, see, so you have to play by my rules. It's like my own Father Knows Best state.

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Fedel
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Postby Fedel » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:56 pm

Makes sense. This site was built leftist from the start. It's only a coincidence that a fair amount of moderates and rightwing people found the site, probably by typing in "nation builder games" and finding an early internet forum. Ah well, it's better they do it sooner rather than later tbh. Everybody knows what everybody's about then and can make their decision.
Last edited by Fedel on Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Prydania
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Postby Prydania » Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:19 pm

Fedel wrote:Makes sense. This site was built leftist from the start. It's only a coincidence that a fair amount of moderates and rightwing people found the site, probably by typing in "nation builder games" and finding an early internet forum. Ah well, it's better they do it sooner rather than later tbh. Everybody knows what everybody's about then and can make their decision.

Nazis have a bad habit of assuming everyone who is against Nazism must be a "leftist."
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Fedel
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Postby Fedel » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:31 pm

Prydania wrote:
Fedel wrote:Makes sense. This site was built leftist from the start. It's only a coincidence that a fair amount of moderates and rightwing people found the site, probably by typing in "nation builder games" and finding an early internet forum. Ah well, it's better they do it sooner rather than later tbh. Everybody knows what everybody's about then and can make their decision.

Nazis have a bad habit of assuming everyone who is against Nazism must be a "leftist."


Pray tell, what exactly makes moderates and rightwing people inherently nazis? The fact that they're not leftwing? xD
Last edited by Fedel on Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Necroghastia
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Postby Necroghastia » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:53 pm

Fedel wrote:
Prydania wrote:Nazis have a bad habit of assuming everyone who is against Nazism must be a "leftist."


Pray tell, what exactly makes moderates and rightwing people inherently nazis? The fact that they're not leftwing? xD

If anything you're saying that... I mean, you're the one saying that banning Nazi stuff "makes sense" due to the site being "built leftist from the start."
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Fedel
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Postby Fedel » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:57 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Fedel wrote:
Pray tell, what exactly makes moderates and rightwing people inherently nazis? The fact that they're not leftwing? xD

If anything you're saying that... I mean, you're the one saying that banning Nazi stuff "makes sense" due to the site being "built leftist from the start."


I'm sorry that I don't believe symbols or words in and of themselves are something that shouldn't be able to be used. It's the intent that infuses them with meaning. You give them power and cede intellectual territory to your enemies by elevating them in that way and automatically giving them new members by casting too wide a net and sweeping up those simply interested in the phenomenon. Expose them for the ridiculous ideologies they are if you're worried that they have some innate kind of appeal. It's simple enough for anyone who is able to understand why those ideologies are wrong.
Last edited by Fedel on Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:01 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Tsaivao
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Postby Tsaivao » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:02 pm

Fedel wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:If anything you're saying that... I mean, you're the one saying that banning Nazi stuff "makes sense" due to the site being "built leftist from the start."


I'm sorry that I don't believe symbols or words in and of themselves are something that shouldn't be able to be used. It's the intent that infuses them with meaning. You give them power and cede intellectual territory to your enemies by elevating them in that way. Expose them for the ridiculous ideologies they are. It's simple enough for anyone who is able to understand why they're wrong.

Banishing people and openly detesting a violent and tyrannical ideology is not "elevating" it, what are you on about? It is much better to openly shun naziism than pretend like we have to give them a voice. There is no debate necessary, so why should we pretend like there should be?

Fedel wrote:
Prydania wrote:Nazis have a bad habit of assuming everyone who is against Nazism must be a "leftist."


Pray tell, what exactly makes moderates and rightwing people inherently nazis? The fact that they're not leftwing? xD

The fact that you think that banning nazis means that this is a ban of moderates and right-wing people is telling enough.
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Fedel
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Postby Fedel » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:15 pm

Tsaivao wrote:
Fedel wrote:
I'm sorry that I don't believe symbols or words in and of themselves are something that shouldn't be able to be used. It's the intent that infuses them with meaning. You give them power and cede intellectual territory to your enemies by elevating them in that way. Expose them for the ridiculous ideologies they are. It's simple enough for anyone who is able to understand why they're wrong.

Banishing people and openly detesting a violent and tyrannical ideology is not "elevating" it, what are you on about? It is much better to openly shun naziism than pretend like we have to give them a voice. There is no debate necessary, so why should we pretend like there should be?

Fedel wrote:
Pray tell, what exactly makes moderates and rightwing people inherently nazis? The fact that they're not leftwing? xD

The fact that you think that banning nazis means that this is a ban of moderates and right-wing people is telling enough.


If their ideas hold no power, do not act like they do by pretending they have inherent danger. Unless your problem is an inherent lack of confidence in people themselves. Though I think in the end that's all leftist's problem and it's the main thing that divides them from their opposition.

-

I stated that the leftists doing this would make the divide clear. Clearly the divide is those that believe humanity is capable and responsible enough to be able to understand why something is wrong and avoid it and those who don't ( unless you view the former group as nazis ).
Last edited by Fedel on Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:36 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:38 pm

Fedel wrote:[*snip*]

I stated that the leftists doing this would make the divide clear. Clearly the divide is those that believe humanity is capable and responsible enough to be able to understand why something is wrong and avoid it and those who don't ( unless you view the former group as nazis ).

There are children on this site, actual children. Forumside the minimum age is thirteen, and gameside there is no minimum (of which I am aware). Children and adolescents are a prime age for being recruited by far-right extremists (especially online).

Protecting children is already generally ranked higher than adults' wishes.

For this reason alone, I support the removal of Nazism from the platform. Someone who really wants to find it can easily seek it out elsewhere.

As for this:
Fedel wrote:Makes sense. This site was built leftist from the start. It's only a coincidence that a fair amount of moderates and rightwing people found the site, probably by typing in "nation builder games" and finding an early internet forum.

It is very possible to be moderate or rightist on site -- and I'm not talking about nation policies. On the forums, I've seen people discuss being pro-life, pro-death-penalty, and even pro-dictator regularly.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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