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Discussion: Moderators Paid $ - Poster Fees $

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.

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Rabbitz
Secretary
 
Posts: 30
Founded: Dec 07, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Rabbitz » Mon May 03, 2021 9:47 pm

Each government has their own policy and procedure in dealing with employees getting paid from an entity not within their country, and judging by the amount of diversity in NS I cannot even fathom the amount of legal work that it will require to pay all of them when it's payday. Not every person in NS is from the 'States: we got Europeans, Asians, Mesoamericans, and the occasional rabbit. So to save the accountants a headache, please don't do this.

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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 14097
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Mon May 03, 2021 11:43 pm

If you wanted to kill NS by driving away many players who don't want to do pay-for-play, not to mention all the plastering with monetisation it would need in order to raise enough for bare minimum wage1, this would be a great idea.

If you want to cause a huge administrative headache -- with taxes for multiple countries, scheduling conflicts, and issues like sick pay and holiday pay -- this would be a great idea.

If you wanted to risk that some future people may join the site staff -- not due to a love for the site, and/or a wish to maintain it for no personal gain -- but because they could get cold lucre, this would be a great idea.

Otherwise, if the aim is to actually improve the site, this is a really bad idea.

1. i.e. "You have accessed your one free issue; pay $X to access your other three issues" *shudder*
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Mon May 03, 2021 11:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Blaatschapen
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 58919
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue May 04, 2021 3:41 am

The Free Joy State wrote:1. i.e. "You have accessed your one free issue; pay $X to access your other three issues" *shudder*


I now have NS2 flashbacks.

Thanks >:(
1. Forumer mod, now a rocker mocker. Thank you Ringo
2.
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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 14097
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Tue May 04, 2021 3:49 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:1. i.e. "You have accessed your one free issue; pay $X to access your other three issues" *shudder*


I now have NS2 flashbacks.

Thanks >:(

I'm sorry. I meant to illustrate how terribly such aggressive freemium strategies would impact the site, not to unearth NS2-related suffering (which, mercifully, is something I have only heard about).

Ewe know I'd never want to hurt you.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Tue May 04, 2021 6:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Valentine Z
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10072
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Valentine Z » Tue May 04, 2021 4:57 am

If the mods are going to get paid, I reckon that so would the other staff. Admins, Issue Editors, GA Sects, etc, etc... there are quite a lot of them! While I personally won't mind you guys getting paid, I respect the decision to be voluntary work. Stakes tend to get higher with money getting involved, no offense to anyone. ♥

Speaking of absurd freemium strategies, how about $10 to change a flag, or $50 for an express GHR that would be replied in a minute?
Last edited by Valentine Z on Tue May 04, 2021 4:59 am, edited 2 times in total.


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Mathuvan Union
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Mathuvan Union » Tue May 04, 2021 4:59 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:Paying the mods isn't an option. Besides the vast amounts of money needed (even on minimum wage), it would be a tremendous bureaucratic headache. From insurance to taxes.

Yes, yes, and yes.
Because the site is legally Australian, the minimum wage is $19.48, which is: €12.72 and £12.72 as well.
Not to mention a whole check in-check out system for the mods would have to be added into the game.
And like, how this is entirely non-feasable playing out $2,000 a day to the mods overall.
Far too much money.
Christmas bonuses per ban...
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New Visayan Islands
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 5366
Founded: Jan 31, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Visayan Islands » Tue May 04, 2021 5:48 am

Mathuvan Union wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:Paying the mods isn't an option. Besides the vast amounts of money needed (even on minimum wage), it would be a tremendous bureaucratic headache. From insurance to taxes.

Yes, yes, and yes.
Because the site is legally Australian, the minimum wage is $19.48, which is: €12.72 and £12.72 as well.
Not to mention a whole check in-check out system for the mods would have to be added into the game.
And like, how this is entirely non-feasable playing out $2,000 a day to the mods overall.
Far too much money.
Christmas bonuses per ban...

Point of order: AUD 19.48 would be USD 15.01, EUR 12.49, and GBP 10.84 at current exchange rates.

That being said, the TL;DR is that the logistics behind paying the mods would be a major, major PITA. Lamoni is right: this would kill NS.
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The Holy Therns
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Posts: 28673
Founded: Jul 09, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Holy Therns » Tue May 04, 2021 6:00 am

Greater Miami Shores wrote:Moderators Paid $ - Poster Fees $. I have always wanted to discuss this, during the old Co UK Forum Days, the Moderators tried to get Payed $ for their work. There was a discussion that Posters should Pay $ a monthly fee to Participate and help the Moderators get Payed $ for their work? I strongly supported both options with my Posts on the Moderators Forum. Your feelings about the Moderators should not count on your Posts. At times I have strongly disagreed with their decisions and at times I have strongly agreed with their decisions, Sedgistan is right I deserved my one day ban for Spam, adding non related comments to my thank you post response on the Moderators Forum, I hope I have learned my lesson this time the hard way, Sedgistan did the right thing and I thank him for it. The Moderators do a lot of work as Moderators and are understaffed and they should be Payed $ for their work? The commercials that appear on NS that Pay $ for the site can Pay $ for their work?

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Ethel mermania
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Tue May 04, 2021 6:04 am

I am going to follow therns, she is holey
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Shofercia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Tue May 04, 2021 6:59 am

As scary as it sounds, I actually agree with the mods in this thread. Completely.
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The Reformed American Republic
Senator
 
Posts: 3899
Founded: May 23, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Tue May 04, 2021 7:12 am

Implement this, as I'm too addicted to NS anyway. This would finally force me to leave this site.
Last edited by The Reformed American Republic on Tue May 04, 2021 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Greater Miami Shores
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9042
Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Tue May 04, 2021 8:24 am

I am not naive :) lol, I did not expect the Moderators to accept the premise of my Posts, I strongly understand their posts, statements and feelings, but I really strongly believe they should get Paid $ for their work, but the Moderators on the old Co UK Forums did try to get Paid $ for their work and it was discussed on the Moderators forum, so I have always wanted to discuss it on this NS, I thank the Moderators for not locking my discussion thread, and they can lock it now anytime they wish, I am satisfied. Thank You to all the Moderators. GMS Alberto.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Tue May 04, 2021 8:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
I once tried to K Me. Posted It and Reported. Locked by Mods. I am Autistic accounts for Repetitive Nature. I am Very Civil and Respectful to all on NS and off NS. My Opinions Are Not Bad Opinions No Ones Opinions Are Bad Opinons. We are on NS, to share, discuss, argue, disagree, on Trump, elections, Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Libertarians and whatevers, with respect. This Respect Is Given It Is Not Earned, This Respect Is Called Freedom of Expression and Democracy. This Man Always Says What He Means, I Am The Real Thing. I Make Ted Cruz look like a Leftist. I have been on NS For over 10 Years with a Perfect Record of No Baiting, Trolling, Flaming, or Using Foul Language. I Am Very Proud of It and Wish To Keep My Record Clean. But I Am Not The Only One On NS. GMS. I'm Based.

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Lumio Magika
Attaché
 
Posts: 99
Founded: Nov 12, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Lumio Magika » Tue May 04, 2021 8:27 am

Yeah, this would pull me off of NS. Sad, because I met the best friends of my life here, but I'm not going to pay to play a text-based browser game as a hobby.
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Heloin
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Tue May 04, 2021 8:51 am

If I wanted to pay to use a forum I'd be on Something Awful.
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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34054
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue May 04, 2021 10:16 am

Greater Miami Shores wrote:[...] but I really strongly believe they should get Paid $ for their work [...]

I mean...you can strongly believe that all you like, but it's not going to happen, as the only way to make it happen would be to start drawing in a lot of revenue from a new source. The three main ways of making that happen will likely never happen due to various reasons: more advertising (to the kind of level where the site would just look utterly obnoxious and be filled with the worst kinds of cookies and trackers imaginable), pay-to-play (which would make most people here jump ship, aside from the few hardcore players), or have a store selling all manner of merchandise (but that would be Max Barry's decision alone, and since he hasn't done it in the past couple of decades then I doubt that he'd go down that route now).
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Nationalist Northumbria
Diplomat
 
Posts: 870
Founded: Apr 27, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Tue May 04, 2021 10:53 am

Mr Barry actually pays me to post on the NS forums.

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Aikoland
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1717
Founded: Dec 22, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Aikoland » Tue May 04, 2021 10:55 am

The obvious solution is to bring back ByteCoin, pay the mods in that, but they can only spend those ByteCoins on the NS Store, like company scrip only usable in the company store.

I hope I don't need to specify that I'm being sarcastic here, but you never know with the internet.
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A small Francophone nation located on a group of islands to the south of France. Primary territory of the nation consists of three main islands, the states as described in our national motto, along with smaller less populated islands surrounding them.
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Greater Miami Shores
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9042
Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Tue May 04, 2021 11:33 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Greater Miami Shores wrote:[...] but I really strongly believe they should get Paid $ for their work [...]

I mean...you can strongly believe that all you like, but it's not going to happen, as the only way to make it happen would be to start drawing in a lot of revenue from a new source. The three main ways of making that happen will likely never happen due to various reasons: more advertising (to the kind of level where the site would just look utterly obnoxious and be filled with the worst kinds of cookies and trackers imaginable), pay-to-play (which would make most people here jump ship, aside from the few hardcore players), or have a store selling all manner of merchandise (but that would be Max Barry's decision alone, and since he hasn't done it in the past couple of decades then I doubt that he'd go down that route now).

Thank you my friend, we strongly agree on your Post. I strongly agree with all Posters who have Posted, As I stated on the same Post you quoted me on, I am not naive :) lol, I did not expect the Moderators to accept the premise of my Posts, I strongly understand their posts, statements and feelings, but I really strongly believe they should get Paid $ for their work. There is more Posted and stated on my Post you quoted me on.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Tue May 04, 2021 11:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
I once tried to K Me. Posted It and Reported. Locked by Mods. I am Autistic accounts for Repetitive Nature. I am Very Civil and Respectful to all on NS and off NS. My Opinions Are Not Bad Opinions No Ones Opinions Are Bad Opinons. We are on NS, to share, discuss, argue, disagree, on Trump, elections, Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Libertarians and whatevers, with respect. This Respect Is Given It Is Not Earned, This Respect Is Called Freedom of Expression and Democracy. This Man Always Says What He Means, I Am The Real Thing. I Make Ted Cruz look like a Leftist. I have been on NS For over 10 Years with a Perfect Record of No Baiting, Trolling, Flaming, or Using Foul Language. I Am Very Proud of It and Wish To Keep My Record Clean. But I Am Not The Only One On NS. GMS. I'm Based.

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Shazbotdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8957
Founded: Sep 28, 2004
Anarchy

Postby Shazbotdom » Tue May 04, 2021 11:49 am

If you want the community to dwindle down to nothing, this is a great idea.


Otherwise, this is such a stupid idea that I would honestly stop using NationStates because I am not going to pay a fee to post on these message boards AFTER I already paid to be a Site Supporter.
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Kashimura
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Founded: Apr 24, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Kashimura » Tue May 04, 2021 2:02 pm

You guys are forgetting the best part: If you pay the mods, they’d probably need quotas to back up fair payment. If you incentivize punishment by implementing warning quotas, that means they’d have to rule harsher and harder to justify staying on the payroll.

I propose we keep feeding the mods instead, for fear they become hangry.
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Mathuvan Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4791
Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Mathuvan Union » Tue May 04, 2021 5:25 pm

New Visayan Islands wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:Yes, yes, and yes.
Because the site is legally Australian, the minimum wage is $19.48, which is: €12.72 and £12.72 as well.
Not to mention a whole check in-check out system for the mods would have to be added into the game.
And like, how this is entirely non-feasable playing out $2,000 a day to the mods overall.
Far too much money.
Christmas bonuses per ban...

Point of order: AUD 19.48 would be USD 15.01, EUR 12.49, and GBP 10.84 at current exchange rates.

That being said, the TL;DR is that the logistics behind paying the mods would be a major, major PITA. Lamoni is right: this would kill NS.

Mutters in weak Australian dollar
But yes this is entirely correct.
This would kill our entire platform and turn it into an EA type thing, trying to rake all the possible money
Last edited by Various Dictators on 1/1/0001, at 12:00 AM, edited 9,000 times in total
G'day. I have nothing to say. Damn. this rhymes. LOOK AWAY, MORTAL BEINGS!
Calvin and Hobbes is the best comic of all times. Yes, I am Hobbes
Best Song Ever. At The Rainbow in ‘74. Awesome.
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Greater Miami Shores
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9042
Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Tue May 04, 2021 5:35 pm

Kashimura wrote:You guys are forgetting the best part: If you pay the mods, they’d probably need quotas to back up fair payment. If you incentivize punishment by implementing warning quotas, that means they’d have to rule harsher and harder to justify staying on the payroll.

I propose we keep feeding the mods instead, for fear they become hangry.

lol, Don't break the rules, don't bait, don't troll, don't flame and don't use foul language against any Persons on NS and Problem solved, lol again.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Tue May 04, 2021 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I once tried to K Me. Posted It and Reported. Locked by Mods. I am Autistic accounts for Repetitive Nature. I am Very Civil and Respectful to all on NS and off NS. My Opinions Are Not Bad Opinions No Ones Opinions Are Bad Opinons. We are on NS, to share, discuss, argue, disagree, on Trump, elections, Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Libertarians and whatevers, with respect. This Respect Is Given It Is Not Earned, This Respect Is Called Freedom of Expression and Democracy. This Man Always Says What He Means, I Am The Real Thing. I Make Ted Cruz look like a Leftist. I have been on NS For over 10 Years with a Perfect Record of No Baiting, Trolling, Flaming, or Using Foul Language. I Am Very Proud of It and Wish To Keep My Record Clean. But I Am Not The Only One On NS. GMS. I'm Based.

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Coicantrost Terbi
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: May 04, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Coicantrost Terbi » Tue May 04, 2021 5:59 pm

I have been on this site on and off (mostly as a lurker) for about a decade now. NS has always been a relatively small site with minimal resources and clout. Hell, the forum uses free software that is way out of date. And only about 10% of all "nations" are part of the forum, which in turn is dominated by only a small fraction of those "nations." NS has always been small potatoes when compared to the likes of 4chan and even the majority of subreddits. It's a tiny niche of only a few hundred active posters. On top of that, NS has been slowly dying as is for the past few years. The forums are a lot less lively than they were say 6-7 years ago. Adding an unnecessary fee will only outright kill the forum.

On top of that, there really is no reason to the pay the mods on this site. Aside from the fact that they don't want to be paid, they have a very light workload that really doesn't warrant pay or any kind of benefits. They mostly just deal with teenage shitposters, the likes of the Banana Kid, and the occasional porn spammer. This is absolutely nothing when compared to the absolute nightmares that the mods on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, and Reddit have to deal with on a daily basis.

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Greater Miami Shores
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9042
Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Tue May 04, 2021 6:11 pm

Coicantrost Terbi wrote:I have been on this site on and off (mostly as a lurker) for about a decade now. NS has always been a relatively small site with minimal resources and clout. Hell, the forum uses free software that is way out of date. And only about 10% of all "nations" are part of the forum, which in turn is dominated by only a small fraction of those "nations." NS has always been small potatoes when compared to the likes of 4chan and even the majority of subreddits. It's a tiny niche of only a few hundred active posters. On top of that, NS has been slowly dying as is for the past few years. The forums are a lot less lively than they were say 6-7 years ago. Adding an unnecessary fee will only outright kill the forum.

On top of that, there really is no reason to the pay the mods on this site. Aside from the fact that they don't want to be paid, they have a very light workload that really doesn't warrant pay or any kind of benefits. They mostly just deal with teenage shitposters, the likes of the Banana Kid, and the occasional porn spammer. This is absolutely nothing when compared to the absolute nightmares that the mods on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, and Reddit have to deal with on a daily basis.

The Moderator forum is the busiest forum on NS, they should get Paid $ for their work.
I once tried to K Me. Posted It and Reported. Locked by Mods. I am Autistic accounts for Repetitive Nature. I am Very Civil and Respectful to all on NS and off NS. My Opinions Are Not Bad Opinions No Ones Opinions Are Bad Opinons. We are on NS, to share, discuss, argue, disagree, on Trump, elections, Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Libertarians and whatevers, with respect. This Respect Is Given It Is Not Earned, This Respect Is Called Freedom of Expression and Democracy. This Man Always Says What He Means, I Am The Real Thing. I Make Ted Cruz look like a Leftist. I have been on NS For over 10 Years with a Perfect Record of No Baiting, Trolling, Flaming, or Using Foul Language. I Am Very Proud of It and Wish To Keep My Record Clean. But I Am Not The Only One On NS. GMS. I'm Based.

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Aikoland
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1717
Founded: Dec 22, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Aikoland » Tue May 04, 2021 6:35 pm

Greater Miami Shores wrote:
Coicantrost Terbi wrote:I have been on this site on and off (mostly as a lurker) for about a decade now. NS has always been a relatively small site with minimal resources and clout. Hell, the forum uses free software that is way out of date. And only about 10% of all "nations" are part of the forum, which in turn is dominated by only a small fraction of those "nations." NS has always been small potatoes when compared to the likes of 4chan and even the majority of subreddits. It's a tiny niche of only a few hundred active posters. On top of that, NS has been slowly dying as is for the past few years. The forums are a lot less lively than they were say 6-7 years ago. Adding an unnecessary fee will only outright kill the forum.

On top of that, there really is no reason to the pay the mods on this site. Aside from the fact that they don't want to be paid, they have a very light workload that really doesn't warrant pay or any kind of benefits. They mostly just deal with teenage shitposters, the likes of the Banana Kid, and the occasional porn spammer. This is absolutely nothing when compared to the absolute nightmares that the mods on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, and Reddit have to deal with on a daily basis.

The Moderator forum is the busiest forum on NS, they should get Paid $ for their work.

But they're not doing any actual work though. I don't mean that to disparage what the mods do, but being a moderator on a somewhat small internet forum is hardly what I would call work.

Even another forum I use that regularly has a few thousand users logged-in and visiting the forums doesn't have paid moderation staff, so why should NS?
♥ L'Empire d'Aikoland ♥
Trois États, Une Impératrice
Official Flag|Factbook|Q&A

A small Francophone nation located on a group of islands to the south of France. Primary territory of the nation consists of three main islands, the states as described in our national motto, along with smaller less populated islands surrounding them.
Official Nation Name: The Empire of Aikoland
Government Type: Parliamentary constitutional monarchy
Head of State: Empress Élisabeth IV
Head of Government: Prime Minister Mélodie Bélanger
Population: 5.8 million
Official Language: French
Current Year: 2021

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