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Discussion: Moderators Paid $ - Poster Fees $

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.

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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Tue May 04, 2021 6:40 pm

Aikoland wrote:But they're not doing any actual work though. I don't mean that to disparage what the mods do, but being a moderator on a somewhat small internet forum is hardly what I would call work.

Even another forum I use that regularly has a few thousand users logged-in and visiting the forums doesn't have paid moderation staff, so why should NS?

Plus I personally like the idea of NationStates being kept up for the users and not because it's making profits/revenue. It's not too small / insignificant to be shut down, but it's also not too big to become the problem that is FB / Twitter / just about every other social network.

Even more plus, with money in mind, I'm going to hazard a guess that "How to become a Moderator" and the implications / interpretations of it all will have to change.


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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue May 04, 2021 7:01 pm

It’s shocking to me that the moderators aren’t paid for their services. They work hard, they’re professionals, and they are integral to the functionality of the site. It doesn’t seem like fair treatment.

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Coicantrost Terbi
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Postby Coicantrost Terbi » Tue May 04, 2021 7:18 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:It’s shocking to me that the moderators aren’t paid for their services. They work hard, they’re professionals, and they are integral to the functionality of the site. It doesn’t seem like fair treatment.


1. The mods have outright stated that they don't want to get paid.

2. NS is a small niche site whose forums are used by only a small fraction of total site users and are dominated by maybe a only a couple hundred or so regular posters. Even with the large number of inactive posters taking into account, NS is very tiny when compared to even the majority of subreddits. As such, NS doesn't have the money to pay anyone. Hell, the forums were created by using a free program that is several years out of date.

3. The mods on this site do not work hard at all. They have a very light workload that mostly consists of dealing with shitposters that don't know what they are talking about and the occasional porn spammer. What the mods here deal with is absolutely nothing compared to what the mods on sites like Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, Instagram, and Discord have to put up with on a daily basis.
Last edited by Coicantrost Terbi on Tue May 04, 2021 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Tue May 04, 2021 9:04 pm

Seems like a waste to pay the mods to moderate the two players who are going to be left on the site.

Not that their share of nothing is going to go very far anyway...
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Tue May 04, 2021 9:45 pm

Aikoland wrote:
Greater Miami Shores wrote:The Moderator forum is the busiest forum on NS, they should get Paid $ for their work.

But they're not doing any actual work though. I don't mean that to disparage what the mods do, but being a moderator on a somewhat small internet forum is hardly what I would call work.

Technically, moderators moderate the whole site, not just the forums [/notamod].

This, of course, means that any endeavour to pay mods (which they have already said here they do not want) would impact every aspect of the site, not just the forums.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Tue May 04, 2021 9:49 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Coicantrost Terbi
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Postby Coicantrost Terbi » Tue May 04, 2021 9:53 pm

The Free Joy State wrote:
Aikoland wrote:But they're not doing any actual work though. I don't mean that to disparage what the mods do, but being a moderator on a somewhat small internet forum is hardly what I would call work.

Technically, moderators moderate the whole site, not just the forums [/notamod].

This, of course, means that any endeavour to pay mods (which they have already said here they do not want) would impact every aspect of the site, not just the forums.


From what I understand, the site is a money pit that is only alive because Max Barry loves it enough to keep pouring his own money into it. Max is rich, but I don't think that rich. In order to pay the mods and administrators, he would probably have to either get a crap load of advertisers or start charging people membership fees which will kill the site.

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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Wed May 05, 2021 12:50 am

Coicantrost Terbi wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:Technically, moderators moderate the whole site, not just the forums [/notamod].

This, of course, means that any endeavour to pay mods (which they have already said here they do not want) would impact every aspect of the site, not just the forums.


From what I understand, the site is a money pit that is only alive because Max Barry loves it enough to keep pouring his own money into it. Max is rich, but I don't think that rich. In order to pay the mods and administrators, he would probably have to either get a crap load of advertisers or start charging people membership fees which will kill the site.


Do you have sources for your understanding?

Also, lol that Max is rich.
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Coicantrost Terbi
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Postby Coicantrost Terbi » Wed May 05, 2021 12:58 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Coicantrost Terbi wrote:
From what I understand, the site is a money pit that is only alive because Max Barry loves it enough to keep pouring his own money into it. Max is rich, but I don't think that rich. In order to pay the mods and administrators, he would probably have to either get a crap load of advertisers or start charging people membership fees which will kill the site.


Do you have sources for your understanding?

Also, lol that Max is rich.


I really don't know about Max Barry's net worth, to be honest. But I do know that NS is pretty much a money pit from what various NS mods and admins have told me over the years. From what I understand, there is already some third party advertising, but it doesn't bring in much.

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Mackjaracotavon
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Mackjaracotavon » Wed May 05, 2021 1:23 am

Gonna contribute by saying what everyone else has said:

    There's no point - Why bother doing this thing that everyone thinks is a good idea on paper? More often than not, as is the case here, what looks good on paper is utterly pointless and futile in practice.

    It is economically impossible - As NationStates is a free service with servers paid for both out-of-pocket by Max Barry and through the donations of many of its loyal users. The store often entices these donations through the sale of virtual goods, such as expanded mailbox space (more telegrams) and the like. It is not even close to being enough to give the NS Moderators and Administrators a wage at five cents/hour, let alone minimum wage plus insurance. Add to that the fact that minimum wage varies by country, and it's more variables that add to the stress of calculating wages. As a result of adopting a full employment for moderators and administrators, NS would operate at a loss, go bankrupt, and poof!

    Users would flee in droves - The whole point of NS is to RP (or discuss) politics for the low low price of FREE. Not everyone has the financial backing to pay Max Barry to utilize NS as a paid service. Even less are willing to do so for any number of valid reasons. As a result, a good chunk of loyal members would leave, and user numbers would plummet, and as stated above, NS would suffer and eventually collapse as a business, rather than a free to use website built on the ideals of (heavily moderated) free speech and political thought.

    Schools would stop using NS - It is no secret that many schools, colleges and such, use NationStates as a free service for education in politics. The implementation of a business model resulting in monthly fees for the use of the website would disuade these schools from continuing to use NS for the purpose they intended in their curriculums.

In all: This is a terrible idea.
Last edited by Mackjaracotavon on Wed May 05, 2021 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Phenix Springs
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Postby Phenix Springs » Wed May 05, 2021 1:44 am

Can’t the moderators lock this tripe already?

Moderators don’t want to get paid. It’s a non-issue.
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed May 05, 2021 4:22 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:It’s shocking to me that the moderators aren’t paid for their services. They work hard, they’re professionals, and they are integral to the functionality of the site. It doesn’t seem like fair treatment.

You could make this argument if this was the likes of a site with user numbers and content generation rates like Facebook, where the Moderators have a continuously full "IN" tray when they start and finish work. But it doesn't fly here. And if the Mods here themselves don't want to be paid, and agreed to their terms of serving in that capacity in a free and fully aware manner, with an option to walk away if they feel like it, then I don't see the issue...
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Quintessence of Dust
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Postby Quintessence of Dust » Wed May 05, 2021 5:09 am

If you're worried about the mods' workload, why don't you just make less work for them. :)
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Greater Miami Shores
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Wed May 05, 2021 10:02 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:It’s shocking to me that the moderators aren’t paid for their services. They work hard, they’re professionals, and they are integral to the functionality of the site. It doesn’t seem like fair treatment.

I understand the Mods don't want to get Paid $ for their work and their reasons why, but they say they are understaffed and need our help in reporting Persons who break the rules, which everyone knows I hate to do. The Mod Forums is the busiest forum on NS, if not the second busiest because Persons keep breaking the rules, strongly agree with the Mods decisions or not from time to time. You make great Points, they work hard, they are Professionals, and it is not fair to not get Paid $ for their work, no matter the work compared to other forum sites like Facebook, Twitter or whatever. Fair is Fair.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Wed May 05, 2021 10:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
I once tried to K Me. Posted It and Reported. Locked by Mods. I am Autistic accounts for Repetitive Nature. I am Very Civil and Respectful to all on NS and off NS. My Opinions Are Not Bad Opinions No Ones Opinions Are Bad Opinons. We are on NS, to share, discuss, argue, disagree, on Trump, elections, Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Libertarians and whatevers, with respect. This Respect Is Given It Is Not Earned, This Respect Is Called Freedom of Expression and Democracy. This Man Always Says What He Means, I Am The Real Thing. I Make Ted Cruz look like a Leftist. I have been on NS For over 10 Years with a Perfect Record of No Baiting, Trolling, Flaming, or Using Foul Language. I Am Very Proud of It and Wish To Keep My Record Clean. But I Am Not The Only One On NS. GMS. I'm Based.

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed May 05, 2021 10:09 am

I suspect most moderators are volunteers. I was a moderator for a a couple major gaming companies (one acquired the other) and it was a volunteer job.

Sure money would be nice. There are draw backs.

Not everybody has the disposable income for things like a monthly fee to the chat/fan boards. In the gaming world there are payers (self described gamers with disposable income to buy the latest weapons and what not) they are not always the best kind of people as they feel entitled…..basically; I could see the site greatly reduced and somewhat boring by such a move.

This is why you should remember to be nice to the mods every so often. Volunteering to handle the mad house……..nah it’s masochism.


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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Wed May 05, 2021 10:13 am

Greater Miami Shores wrote:The Mod Forums is the busiest forum on NS, if not the second busiest because Persons keep breaking the rules.

No, they really really aren't. It isn't even the second busiest by a long shot. Post count of various sections of the forums at time of writing:

General: 11,910,864

Portal to the Multiverse: 5,635,427

International Incidents: 3,025,871

Factbooks and National Information: 2,265,841

Arts & Fiction: 1,447,402

NationStates: 1,085,513

Forum 7: 474,364

NS Sports: 458,142

Global Economics and Trade: 409,789

Gameplay: 313,406

Moderation: 300,599
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Greater Miami Shores
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Wed May 05, 2021 10:15 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Greater Miami Shores wrote:The Mod Forums is the busiest forum on NS, if not the second busiest because Persons keep breaking the rules.

No, they really really aren't. It isn't even the second busiest by a long shot. Post count of various sections of the forums at time of writing:

General: 11,910,864

Portal to the Multiverse: 5,635,427

International Incidents: 3,025,871

Factbooks and National Information: 2,265,841

Arts & Fiction: 1,447,402

NationStates: 1,085,513

Forum 7: 474,364

NS Sports: 458,142

Global Economics and Trade: 409,789

Gameplay: 313,406

Moderation: 300,599

It sure as heck seems to be the busiest Forum site on NS, Everyone knows I hate Persons reporting each other for anything they can think of to hurt each other.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Wed May 05, 2021 10:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
I once tried to K Me. Posted It and Reported. Locked by Mods. I am Autistic accounts for Repetitive Nature. I am Very Civil and Respectful to all on NS and off NS. My Opinions Are Not Bad Opinions No Ones Opinions Are Bad Opinons. We are on NS, to share, discuss, argue, disagree, on Trump, elections, Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Libertarians and whatevers, with respect. This Respect Is Given It Is Not Earned, This Respect Is Called Freedom of Expression and Democracy. This Man Always Says What He Means, I Am The Real Thing. I Make Ted Cruz look like a Leftist. I have been on NS For over 10 Years with a Perfect Record of No Baiting, Trolling, Flaming, or Using Foul Language. I Am Very Proud of It and Wish To Keep My Record Clean. But I Am Not The Only One On NS. GMS. I'm Based.

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Nationalist Northumbria
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Wed May 05, 2021 10:18 am

Greater Miami Shores wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:No, they really really aren't. It isn't even the second busiest by a long shot. Post count of various sections of the forums at time of writing:

General: 11,910,864

Portal to the Multiverse: 5,635,427

International Incidents: 3,025,871

Factbooks and National Information: 2,265,841

Arts & Fiction: 1,447,402

NationStates: 1,085,513

Forum 7: 474,364

NS Sports: 458,142

Global Economics and Trade: 409,789

Gameplay: 313,406

Moderation: 300,599

It sure as heck seems to be the busiest Forum site on NS, Everyone knows I hate Persons reporting each other for anything they can think of to hurt each other.

It isn't. What relevance do these two statements have to one another anyway?

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The Black Remnant
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Black Remnant » Wed May 05, 2021 10:23 am

Quintessence of Dust wrote:If you're worried about the mods' workload, why don't you just make less work for them. :)


We found it lads. The most based NSer.

Commentary on shockingly good ideas aside(see quoted post), Mods don't need nor want to be paid.

As has been said multiple times before, not only does NS lack the money to pay the Mods, but it's volunteer work! It's at no cost to them aside from time and the occasional headache.

The best form of payment for these fine lads and lasses helping keep the site clean, imo, is to 1. Give thanks to their actions and 2. Try not to warrant their work so they can go on without needing to break out the spookytext.

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Greater Miami Shores
Powerbroker
 
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Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Wed May 05, 2021 10:26 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Greater Miami Shores wrote:It sure as heck seems to be the busiest Forum site on NS, Everyone knows I hate Persons reporting each other for anything they can think of to hurt each other.

It isn't. What relevance do these two statements have to one another anyway?

Thank you for quoteting me. Infected Mushroom Makes Great Points. This is what I meant by the Mod Forums being the busiest or second busiest Forums on NS, every day Persons Reporting each other for anything they can think of to hurt each other which I hate to do and everyone knows it by my posts in the past, makes it seem like it the busiest forum on NS, my comment did not have to be taken literally by a Post Count. Infected Mushroom Makes Great Points. Repeated For Emphasis. Thank You for quoteting me,
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Wed May 05, 2021 10:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
I once tried to K Me. Posted It and Reported. Locked by Mods. I am Autistic accounts for Repetitive Nature. I am Very Civil and Respectful to all on NS and off NS. My Opinions Are Not Bad Opinions No Ones Opinions Are Bad Opinons. We are on NS, to share, discuss, argue, disagree, on Trump, elections, Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Libertarians and whatevers, with respect. This Respect Is Given It Is Not Earned, This Respect Is Called Freedom of Expression and Democracy. This Man Always Says What He Means, I Am The Real Thing. I Make Ted Cruz look like a Leftist. I have been on NS For over 10 Years with a Perfect Record of No Baiting, Trolling, Flaming, or Using Foul Language. I Am Very Proud of It and Wish To Keep My Record Clean. But I Am Not The Only One On NS. GMS. I'm Based.

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Kingdom of Englands
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Founded: Feb 08, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kingdom of Englands » Wed May 05, 2021 11:22 am

Greater Miami Shores wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:It isn't. What relevance do these two statements have to one another anyway?

Thank you for quoteting me. Infected Mushroom Makes Great Points. This is what I meant by the Mod Forums being the busiest or second busiest Forums on NS, every day Persons Reporting each other for anything they can think of to hurt each other which I hate to do and everyone knows it by my posts in the past, makes it seem like it the busiest forum on NS, my comment did not have to be taken literally by a Post Count. Infected Mushroom Makes Great Points. Repeated For Emphasis. Thank You for quoteting me,

Not every report to the mods is to 'hurt each other', some people just don't stay within the rules.
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Kargintinia
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Anarchy

Postby Kargintinia » Wed May 05, 2021 11:26 am

No

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Coicantrost Terbi
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Posts: 38
Founded: May 04, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Coicantrost Terbi » Wed May 05, 2021 4:31 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:I suspect most moderators are volunteers. I was a moderator for a a couple major gaming companies (one acquired the other) and it was a volunteer job.

Sure money would be nice. There are draw backs.

Not everybody has the disposable income for things like a monthly fee to the chat/fan boards. In the gaming world there are payers (self described gamers with disposable income to buy the latest weapons and what not) they are not always the best kind of people as they feel entitled…..basically; I could see the site greatly reduced and somewhat boring by such a move.

This is why you should remember to be nice to the mods every so often. Volunteering to handle the mad house……..nah it’s masochism.


:p


It's certainly understandable why mods on sites like Facebook and YouTube would get paid. They have a very heavy workload that makes moderation a fulltime job and they have to constantly put up with some very horrible stuff. The mods on NS, however, have it extremely easy. They have an extremely light workload that consists of perhaps at most 15-20 reports on a "bad" day (that are divided amongst them) which are mostly just petty squabbles with the occasional porn spammer mixed in.

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Katganistan
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Katganistan » Wed May 05, 2021 8:25 pm

Quintessence of Dust wrote:If you're worried about the mods' workload, why don't you just make less work for them. :)

:clap:

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The Archregimancy
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Posts: 26744
Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Thu May 06, 2021 12:54 am

<arises from his recent slumber>

Absolutely not.

There are no circumstances under which I would help moderate this site for money.

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Drop Your Pants
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Drop Your Pants » Thu May 06, 2021 6:15 am

The Archregimancy wrote:There are no circumstances under which I would help moderate this site for money.

What if we paid you in cookies?
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