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Trolling definition makes no sense

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.

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Langenia
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Posts: 6778
Founded: Apr 22, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Langenia » Tue May 04, 2021 1:56 pm

Birchland and the NAF wrote:
Victorious Decepticons wrote:It's flamebaiting and/or trolling because any Central American with a shred of self-esteem would be raging at your description. You need to refrain from posting stuff that will insult entire groups of people, or even single posters. Instead, aim attacks at their arguments, behaviors, and stuff like that. Basically things that aren't fundamental to the person/people themselves.

ETA: And, be careful how you do it. No saying certain people act like [insert animal here] because those people are [race/ethnicity/nationality].

Nobody with a shred of self-esteem rages over a forum post. I don’t even take myself too seriously, I’m a pretty easy-going fellow, let alone somebody else.


As a Central American, I'm not going to say I was raging, but that post was offensive to me, basically an insult. Obviously it sparked anger within me.
Last edited by Langenia on Tue May 04, 2021 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LANGENIA
Fatherland, Unity, and Valor
Overview|Armed Forces|Politics|Embassy Program|LangenArPort| Incumbent President: Nicolas Furia
Langenia is an MT-early PMT nation located in northern South America, the result of Spain not successfully colonizing the region but leaving its mark. Some NS stats are used. We outpollo PolloHut.
NEWS: Following Insaani coup that removes royal family and installs new hardline Islamist regime, Insaanistan fights Christian countries and oppresses non-Muslims. Arms embargo imposed by Aragon, along with sanctions on regime officials and combat operations.| OAS meeting to take place soon.| Langenia distances from Cassadia.| Vaccinations continue, COVID restrictions to be eased.| AeroLangenia begins international flights again.| This is LCNA.

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Birchland and the NAF
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Posts: 91
Founded: Apr 29, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Birchland and the NAF » Tue May 04, 2021 1:56 pm

The Rich Port wrote:It's almost like racist ideas are themselves inherently contradictory or something.

Mind explaining how so?
Nihilistic, proudly racialist, anti-urbanite, environmentalist, gun rights absolutist, animal-loving Englishman living in North America. “Birchland” is a location in a children’s novel I am developing and which this nation represents. Factbooks and flag coming soon.
“Trolling is defined as posts that are made with the aim of angering people.“
This is not something I do, have done or plan on doing.

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Badassistanian
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Founded: Sep 20, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Badassistanian » Tue May 04, 2021 1:58 pm

Birchland and the NAF wrote:
Badassistanian wrote:The problem here is that some ideologies and opinions have what I can only describe as "hate and disgust of the other" as integral parts. Thes ideologies, though not banned in of themselves, will always break rules regarding flamebaiting or trolling due to their nature.

That’s a good way of putting it. A backdoor ban so to speak.

Which I see as a beneficial thing, I would love an outright ban but this is the next best thing

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Birchland and the NAF
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Founded: Apr 29, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Birchland and the NAF » Tue May 04, 2021 2:04 pm

Badassistanian wrote:
Birchland and the NAF wrote:That’s a good way of putting it. A backdoor ban so to speak.

Which I see as a beneficial thing, I would love an outright ban but this is the next best thing

How come you want to ban ideologies you dislike? There are many ideologies I dislike, very likely yours, but I’m fine with having them about and am happy to talk to adherents of them.
Nihilistic, proudly racialist, anti-urbanite, environmentalist, gun rights absolutist, animal-loving Englishman living in North America. “Birchland” is a location in a children’s novel I am developing and which this nation represents. Factbooks and flag coming soon.
“Trolling is defined as posts that are made with the aim of angering people.“
This is not something I do, have done or plan on doing.

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New Vedan
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Posts: 152
Founded: Apr 06, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby New Vedan » Tue May 04, 2021 2:23 pm

Birchland and the NAF wrote:
Badassistanian wrote:Which I see as a beneficial thing, I would love an outright ban but this is the next best thing

How come you want to ban ideologies you dislike? There are many ideologies I dislike, very likely yours, but I’m fine with having them about and am happy to talk to adherents of them.



You ever notice that it's the "tolerant" lefties that are all for banning things they dislike, whilst the right is usually much more accepting of other ideologies?

I'm never going to get over the fact that the guy everyone was saying was gonna legalize weed is now trying to illegalize Menthol cigarettes and blunt wraps.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue May 04, 2021 2:37 pm

Birchland and the NAF wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:It's almost like racist ideas are themselves inherently contradictory or something.

Mind explaining how so?


Um, you cut out the part of my post that explains it. The irony.

Your post, which you were rightly punished for, is contradictory and trolling. Not all Central Americans are the way you describe them, not to mention your selective acceptance for what "acceptable white people" are. I think most white folk on here would agree you're the less acceptable specimen of "white", considering you don't even realize basic contradictions.

And that's of course, not assuming you're a fascist, so you don't even believe in the right of others to free speech.

It's an inherently incorrect statement that requires a lot of revision to make even marginally acceptable to post, both on a subjective and objective standard.

New Vedan wrote:
Birchland and the NAF wrote:How come you want to ban ideologies you dislike? There are many ideologies I dislike, very likely yours, but I’m fine with having them about and am happy to talk to adherents of them.



You ever notice that it's the "tolerant" lefties that are all for banning things they dislike, whilst the right is usually much more accepting of other ideologies?

I'm never going to get over the fact that the guy everyone was saying was gonna legalize weed is now trying to illegalize Menthol cigarettes and blunt wraps.


The right being accepting of other ideologies, that's rich. They're not even accepting of other skin colors, as Birchland is testament of.

Explain to me why we should be tolerant of people who would be intolerant if we allowed them in power.
Last edited by The Rich Port on Tue May 04, 2021 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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New Vedan
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby New Vedan » Tue May 04, 2021 2:50 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Birchland and the NAF wrote:Mind explaining how so?


Um, you cut out the part of my post that explains it. The irony.

Your post, which you were rightly punished for, is contradictory and trolling. Not all Central Americans are the way you describe them, not to mention your selective acceptance for what "acceptable white people" are. I think most white folk on here would agree you're the less acceptable specimen of "white", considering you don't even realize basic contradictions.

And that's of course, not assuming you're a fascist, so you don't even believe in the right of others to free speech.

It's an inherently incorrect statement that requires a lot of revision to make even marginally acceptable to post, both on a subjective and objective standard.

New Vedan wrote:

You ever notice that it's the "tolerant" lefties that are all for banning things they dislike, whilst the right is usually much more accepting of other ideologies?

I'm never going to get over the fact that the guy everyone was saying was gonna legalize weed is now trying to illegalize Menthol cigarettes and blunt wraps.


The right being accepting of other ideologies, that's rich. They're not even accepting of other skin colors, as Birchland is testament of.

Explain to me why we should be tolerant of people who would be intolerant if we allowed them in power.



Because if you are intolerant of any belief it only makes the suppressed belief seem superior. And practically guaranteed that your ideology will be suppressed in turn should you ever lose power. The only way for a democracy to thrive is to be tolerant of all belief systems no matter what it is they are proposing or how abhorrent it is viewed by the majority. As long as they do not become violent of course, like Antifa and BLM have recently. And even then you must make sure to only punish those who have committed violence, and not those that have never harmed anyone despite sharing similar beliefs to those that have.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue May 04, 2021 2:58 pm

New Vedan wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
Um, you cut out the part of my post that explains it. The irony.

Your post, which you were rightly punished for, is contradictory and trolling. Not all Central Americans are the way you describe them, not to mention your selective acceptance for what "acceptable white people" are. I think most white folk on here would agree you're the less acceptable specimen of "white", considering you don't even realize basic contradictions.

And that's of course, not assuming you're a fascist, so you don't even believe in the right of others to free speech.

It's an inherently incorrect statement that requires a lot of revision to make even marginally acceptable to post, both on a subjective and objective standard.



The right being accepting of other ideologies, that's rich. They're not even accepting of other skin colors, as Birchland is testament of.

Explain to me why we should be tolerant of people who would be intolerant if we allowed them in power.



Because if you are intolerant of any belief it only makes the suppressed belief seem superior. And practically guaranteed that your ideology will be suppressed in turn should you ever lose power. The only way for a democracy to thrive is to be tolerant of all belief systems no matter what it is they are proposing or how abhorrent it is viewed by the majority. As long as they do not become violent of course, like Antifa and BLM have recently. And even then you must make sure to only punish those who have committed violence, and not those that have never harmed anyone despite sharing similar beliefs to those that have.


Suuuuuuuuuuuure. And this is a completely unbiased observation on your part? :roll:

And yeah, no, we have no obligation to platform hate speech or outright lies. De-platforming Nazis in fact makes it harder for their messages to spread and for them to recruit.
Pronouns: I'm Genderfluid, so if you want me to feel pretty and extraordinary, call me she. If you want me to feel handsome and masculine, call me he. If you use they to refer to me you're a coward. Roll the diiiiice.
NOW WITH SUPER SECRET VIP CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION DISCORD. INQUIRE VIA TELEGRAM.

Coronavirus is real, and a real problem. Do not panic, but please educate yourself and take steps to protect yourself and your loved ones. Donald Trump lied. Pray for the sick.
LAUGH, AND GROW FAT
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS

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Birchland and the NAF
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Founded: Apr 29, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Birchland and the NAF » Tue May 04, 2021 3:23 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Birchland and the NAF wrote:Mind explaining how so?


Um, you cut out the part of my post that explains it. The irony.

Your post, which you were rightly punished for, is contradictory and trolling. Not all Central Americans are the way you describe them, not to mention your selective acceptance for what "acceptable white people" are. I think most white folk on here would agree you're the less acceptable specimen of "white", considering you don't even realize basic contradictions.

And that's of course, not assuming you're a fascist, so you don't even believe in the right of others to free speech.

It's an inherently incorrect statement that requires a lot of revision to make even marginally acceptable to post, both on a subjective and objective standard.

New Vedan wrote:

You ever notice that it's the "tolerant" lefties that are all for banning things they dislike, whilst the right is usually much more accepting of other ideologies?

I'm never going to get over the fact that the guy everyone was saying was gonna legalize weed is now trying to illegalize Menthol cigarettes and blunt wraps.


The right being accepting of other ideologies, that's rich. They're not even accepting of other skin colors, as Birchland is testament of.

Explain to me why we should be tolerant of people who would be intolerant if we allowed them in power.

I’m not actually a fascist. I loathe big government and ordered societies. I 100% believe in the right of people I disagree with to speak, given that nothing useful can be gained by any side by speaking.
Last edited by Birchland and the NAF on Tue May 04, 2021 3:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Nihilistic, proudly racialist, anti-urbanite, environmentalist, gun rights absolutist, animal-loving Englishman living in North America. “Birchland” is a location in a children’s novel I am developing and which this nation represents. Factbooks and flag coming soon.
“Trolling is defined as posts that are made with the aim of angering people.“
This is not something I do, have done or plan on doing.

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The Rich Port
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Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Rich Port » Tue May 04, 2021 3:31 pm

Birchland and the NAF wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
Um, you cut out the part of my post that explains it. The irony.

Your post, which you were rightly punished for, is contradictory and trolling. Not all Central Americans are the way you describe them, not to mention your selective acceptance for what "acceptable white people" are. I think most white folk on here would agree you're the less acceptable specimen of "white", considering you don't even realize basic contradictions.

And that's of course, not assuming you're a fascist, so you don't even believe in the right of others to free speech.

It's an inherently incorrect statement that requires a lot of revision to make even marginally acceptable to post, both on a subjective and objective standard.



The right being accepting of other ideologies, that's rich. They're not even accepting of other skin colors, as Birchland is testament of.

Explain to me why we should be tolerant of people who would be intolerant if we allowed them in power.

I’m not actually a fascist. I loathe big government and ordered societies.


Yeah you're just a racist that's way better. Oy vey.

You know what I'ma have to admit you guys do have a point. It's better for y'all to be here than to be on Stormfront or something.

But y'all do need to understand that here we don't just accept any lie or nonsense, whether it's other members or the moderators.

It might not feel like a lie, nor does it seem to be trolling, buuuuuut.

You're gonna need more proof and evidence about your beliefs and your statement not being trolling beyond "It's not trolling because I'm sincerely a racist".
Pronouns: I'm Genderfluid, so if you want me to feel pretty and extraordinary, call me she. If you want me to feel handsome and masculine, call me he. If you use they to refer to me you're a coward. Roll the diiiiice.
NOW WITH SUPER SECRET VIP CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION DISCORD. INQUIRE VIA TELEGRAM.

Coronavirus is real, and a real problem. Do not panic, but please educate yourself and take steps to protect yourself and your loved ones. Donald Trump lied. Pray for the sick.
LAUGH, AND GROW FAT
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS

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New Vedan
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Founded: Apr 06, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby New Vedan » Tue May 04, 2021 3:35 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
New Vedan wrote:

Because if you are intolerant of any belief it only makes the suppressed belief seem superior. And practically guaranteed that your ideology will be suppressed in turn should you ever lose power. The only way for a democracy to thrive is to be tolerant of all belief systems no matter what it is they are proposing or how abhorrent it is viewed by the majority. As long as they do not become violent of course, like Antifa and BLM have recently. And even then you must make sure to only punish those who have committed violence, and not those that have never harmed anyone despite sharing similar beliefs to those that have.


Suuuuuuuuuuuure. And this is a completely unbiased observation on your part? :roll:

And yeah, no, we have no obligation to platform hate speech or outright lies. De-platforming Nazis in fact makes it harder for their messages to spread and for them to recruit.



And then they create there own platforms. And then migrate to those platforms when the current platforms piss them off. Then it leads to the situation we have now of people largely staying in echo chambers for there side when online, rarely interacting with and demonizing there political opponent's. This results in increased radicalization of both sides of the spectrum until it gets to the point where they refuse to find common ground with one another and begin killing each other.

In short if you attempt to suppress dissenters, it will eventually backfire on you.

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New Vedan
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby New Vedan » Tue May 04, 2021 3:51 pm

You k ow I had a idea. What if we dedicated one section of the forums to being pure unmoderated hellhole. A place where you can say or do whatever you want and it wont get your nation banned, as long as you keep it in that space. It wouldn't require any work from the moderators aside from setting it up. And would in fact probably help them with containing undesirable content on the rest of the site by walling it up in one space.

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Tue May 04, 2021 4:45 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:OP does actually have a point, at least under a plain reading the trolling definition does seem to be self-contradictory. If a belief is earnestly held and expressed not to anger people but to simply offer a differing point of view (even if that view is abhorrent to most people) then it cannot be trolling, that's not what the word has ever meant. But the definition used here explicitly says honest belief doesn't matter, at that point it's not a rule about trolling and more just a means of controlling conversation and kicking out certain ideological beliefs.


It’s all in the delivery and the response. Sure a person can think it’s right. Unless they are surprised by the response; it’s trolling. Especially if they respond with the usual snowflake comments.
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Badassistanian
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Founded: Sep 20, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Badassistanian » Tue May 04, 2021 5:01 pm

New Vedan wrote:You k ow I had a idea. What if we dedicated one section of the forums to being pure unmoderated hellhole. A place where you can say or do whatever you want and it wont get your nation banned, as long as you keep it in that space. It wouldn't require any work from the moderators aside from setting it up. And would in fact probably help them with containing undesirable content on the rest of the site by walling it up in one space.

Sir, this isnt 8 chan

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Badassistanian
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Postby Badassistanian » Tue May 04, 2021 5:04 pm

Birchland and the NAF wrote:
Badassistanian wrote:Which I see as a beneficial thing, I would love an outright ban but this is the next best thing

How come you want to ban ideologies you dislike? There are many ideologies I dislike, very likely yours, but I’m fine with having them about and am happy to talk to adherents of them.

Ideologies of hate deserve to have the soap boxes kicked out from under their feet... I dont care about the moral or philosophical arguments about free speech.

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The Reformed American Republic
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Tue May 04, 2021 5:07 pm

Birchland and the NAF wrote:
Badassistanian wrote:The problem here is that some ideologies and opinions have what I can only describe as "hate and disgust of the other" as integral parts. Thes ideologies, though not banned in of themselves, will always break rules regarding flamebaiting or trolling due to their nature.

That’s a good way of putting it. A backdoor ban so to speak.

And I agree with such a ban. I don't think Nazis should be allowed to scream "gas the kikes" on this site or anything like that.

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Langenia
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Founded: Apr 22, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Langenia » Tue May 04, 2021 5:14 pm

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Birchland and the NAF wrote:That’s a good way of putting it. A backdoor ban so to speak.

And I agree with such a ban. I don't think Nazis should be allowed to scream "gas the kikes" on this site or anything like that.


Agreed. Someone already said it. This isn't 4chan.
LANGENIA
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Overview|Armed Forces|Politics|Embassy Program|LangenArPort| Incumbent President: Nicolas Furia
Langenia is an MT-early PMT nation located in northern South America, the result of Spain not successfully colonizing the region but leaving its mark. Some NS stats are used. We outpollo PolloHut.
NEWS: Following Insaani coup that removes royal family and installs new hardline Islamist regime, Insaanistan fights Christian countries and oppresses non-Muslims. Arms embargo imposed by Aragon, along with sanctions on regime officials and combat operations.| OAS meeting to take place soon.| Langenia distances from Cassadia.| Vaccinations continue, COVID restrictions to be eased.| AeroLangenia begins international flights again.| This is LCNA.

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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Tue May 04, 2021 5:16 pm

Langenia wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:And I agree with such a ban. I don't think Nazis should be allowed to scream "gas the kikes" on this site or anything like that.


Agreed. Someone already said it. This isn't 4chan.

Indeed. If this was like 4chan, I wouldn't be here.

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Shazbotdom
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Anarchy

Postby Shazbotdom » Tue May 04, 2021 5:18 pm

New Vedan wrote:You k ow I had a idea. What if we dedicated one section of the forums to being pure unmoderated hellhole. A place where you can say or do whatever you want and it wont get your nation banned, as long as you keep it in that space. It wouldn't require any work from the moderators aside from setting it up. And would in fact probably help them with containing undesirable content on the rest of the site by walling it up in one space.


How about.....


No.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue May 04, 2021 6:07 pm

New Vedan wrote:You k ow I had a idea. What if we dedicated one section of the forums to being pure unmoderated hellhole. A place where you can say or do whatever you want and it wont get your nation banned, as long as you keep it in that space. It wouldn't require any work from the moderators aside from setting it up. And would in fact probably help them with containing undesirable content on the rest of the site by walling it up in one space.


You know, have you ever wondered if maybe the rules aren't the problem but you are?

I think it says a lot about the both of you that 8chan and Stormfront would be more suitable for you.

Doesn't that give you pause? The fact that the only places where you would be accepted are some of the shittiest, most toxic shitholes on the Internet?

Doesn't it make you feel shame?
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Coicantrost Terbi
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Coicantrost Terbi » Tue May 04, 2021 6:09 pm

While what the OP said was definitely racist trolling, there is some merit to this post in that the mods have often been inconsistent in both their interpretation and enforcement of the rules. There should be more transparency in how they do things and people should be allowed to call them out when they are inconsistent without being shot down by the mods for "rules lawyering."

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue May 04, 2021 6:10 pm

Coicantrost Terbi wrote:While what the OP said was definitely racist trolling, there is some merit to this post in that the mods have often been inconsistent in both their interpretation and enforcement of the rules. There should be more transparency in how they do things and people should be allowed to call them out when they are inconsistent without being shot down by the mods for "rules lawyering."


Do you have a good example?

Cuz yeah, this is a bad example, the racist trolling, the mods were consistent in this case.
Last edited by The Rich Port on Tue May 04, 2021 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pronouns: I'm Genderfluid, so if you want me to feel pretty and extraordinary, call me she. If you want me to feel handsome and masculine, call me he. If you use they to refer to me you're a coward. Roll the diiiiice.
NOW WITH SUPER SECRET VIP CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION DISCORD. INQUIRE VIA TELEGRAM.

Coronavirus is real, and a real problem. Do not panic, but please educate yourself and take steps to protect yourself and your loved ones. Donald Trump lied. Pray for the sick.
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Birchland and the NAF
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Founded: Apr 29, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Birchland and the NAF » Tue May 04, 2021 6:30 pm

Badassistanian wrote:
Birchland and the NAF wrote:How come you want to ban ideologies you dislike? There are many ideologies I dislike, very likely yours, but I’m fine with having them about and am happy to talk to adherents of them.

Ideologies of hate deserve to have the soap boxes kicked out from under their feet... I dont care about the moral or philosophical arguments about free speech.

I notice people only want to ban ideas when they’re frightened that they might be right. Somebody who’s confident in anything doesn’t throw or want to throw bans at everything they don’t like.
Nihilistic, proudly racialist, anti-urbanite, environmentalist, gun rights absolutist, animal-loving Englishman living in North America. “Birchland” is a location in a children’s novel I am developing and which this nation represents. Factbooks and flag coming soon.
“Trolling is defined as posts that are made with the aim of angering people.“
This is not something I do, have done or plan on doing.

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Badassistanian
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Postby Badassistanian » Tue May 04, 2021 6:31 pm

Birchland and the NAF wrote:
Badassistanian wrote:Ideologies of hate deserve to have the soap boxes kicked out from under their feet... I dont care about the moral or philosophical arguments about free speech.

I notice people only want to ban ideas when they’re frightened that they might be right. Somebody who’s confident in anything doesn’t throw or want to throw bans at everything they don’t like.

Not frightened they are right, frightened by the fact that their end goal is putting people I love in the grave

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Birchland and the NAF
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Posts: 91
Founded: Apr 29, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Birchland and the NAF » Tue May 04, 2021 6:33 pm

Coicantrost Terbi wrote:While what the OP said was definitely racist trolling, there is some merit to this post in that the mods have often been inconsistent in both their interpretation and enforcement of the rules. There should be more transparency in how they do things and people should be allowed to call them out when they are inconsistent without being shot down by the mods for "rules lawyering."

Surprised I haven’t been slapped with that one. Knock on wood.
Nihilistic, proudly racialist, anti-urbanite, environmentalist, gun rights absolutist, animal-loving Englishman living in North America. “Birchland” is a location in a children’s novel I am developing and which this nation represents. Factbooks and flag coming soon.
“Trolling is defined as posts that are made with the aim of angering people.“
This is not something I do, have done or plan on doing.

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