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Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Echo Chamber Thought Police wrote:so israel should allow the existence of a secure Palestinian state in the west bank to avoid this
They could if the Palestinians behave themselves. The overriding fear is that if Israel just outright withdraws from the disputed region, Hamas or Islamic Jihad will take over and the West Bank will devolve into an even larger and much more potent launching pad for rocket attacks as Islamist extremists are emboldened by what they regard as Israeli weakness. It would be yet another stepping stone toward total Arab domination of the region. Also, don't forget about the fedayeen terror attacks and raids into Israel that occurred pre-1967 when the West Bank and Gaza were occupied by Jordan and Egypt and there were no calls for a "Palestinian" state as we know it today because this is all historical revisionism demonstrating a level of collective self-delusion that would make QAnon LARPers appear harmless by comparison given just how many people on both sides have lost their lives in this needless conflict. There was no such thing as a "Palestinian people" at the time. This is dangerous misinformation calculated to inflame and divide rather than heal and unify.
It would be much more difficult for Israel to place an unoccupied, terrorist-run West Bank under a total blockade like they've done with Gaza short of violently re-invading the region a second time with all the death and misery that entails. Barring a second invasion attempt, the West Bank would be a much more miserable place for Palestinians due to the Israeli-imposed border closures and economic blockade that would occur in response to incessant, never-ending terror attacks, not to mention Israelis residing in any of the major settlement blocs would be discriminated against as second-class citizens at best and outright expelled and ethnically cleansed and massacred at worst.
As if the Second Intifada and numerous suicide bombings against Israelis weren't bad enough. Israel had to literally build a wall to put a stop to these attacks. The wall was effective in doing so. A wall that many bleeding-heart, open-borders leftists staunchly oppose because they don't believe in bourgeois concepts such as national sovereignty nor do they appreciate the beauty and glory of Western civilization. The world would be a much scarier place for ordinary Israelis up and down the country and not just Sderot and Ashkelon if both the West Bank and Gaza stood unoccupied and governed by literal copies of ISIS.
Simply put, any concession by Israel, however minor, would serve merely to embolden her enemies to demand more and more territory and concessions with the (im)moral backing of BDS instead of actually negotiating in good faith, which they've never, ever done in history.
We have to understand that the Arab Islamist/nationalist/communist mindset, similar to the Chinese communist or Russian nationalist mindset, revolves primarily around elaborate displays of strength and total domination and seeing one's enemies crushed beneath tank treads. This is how illiberal dictators and theocrats insufficiently exposed or overly resistant to liberal, Western ideas operate on the most fundamental level. These are the kinds of people Israel and the broader Western world are dealing with. Being from formerly British and now communist-run Hong Kong and formerly British and deeply conservative, Muslim-dominated Malaysia, I understand and appreciate this existential threat to freedom, human rights, and democracy very deeply. So does Nekostan-e-Gharbi, who largely shares my views on Israel, the Arab world, Japan (minus the WWII revisionism), and present-day Communist China.
In response, the West, Israel included, must never cede an inch to those who don't share our most fundamental values. First, they will come for Israel, then Europe, and finally, the United States, the last remaining bastion of freedom, democracy, and human rights in the world. When that happens, as Yuri Bezmenov warned us in the '80s, there will be no more safe haven to flee to. We shouldn't hesitate to flaunt our liberal, moral and cultural superiority in this regard.
Seeing as Jordan has since relinquished its claim over the West Bank and there has never been a Palestinian state, Israel currently has exclusive rights to the region. But maybe if Jordan were to annex part of the West Bank consisting of Palestinian settlements while Israel annexes the remainder consisting of the major Israeli settlement blocs with some limited land swaps and/or population exchanges, things might work out for the better. Possibly. Hopefully. If only Jordan and other adjacent Arab states would simply grant Palestinian so-called "refugees" citizenship and integrate them into their societies, there would be a lot less terrorism and misplaced anger, particularly in Lebanon. There would be no need for another Black September in Jordan. Palestinians would be able to enjoy a far better quality of life than they do now.
But this thread is about Iran's response to Israel ceasing to exist and the thread title should be changed to reflect that. The Iranian regime and many older, rural Iranians sympathetic to the Ayatollahs would celebrate overnight. Many younger, more liberal-minded Iranians could care less about Israel and the Palestinians and continue with their fight for freedom and democracy at home. Upon Israel ceasing to exist, Tehran could simply turn its attention to Washington and Riyadh. Hezbollah, Hamas, and other Iranian-backed militias could simply be ordered to focus their attention on Saudi Arabia now that Israel has been practically annihilated. Nothing much would change otherwise except the Jews in the region would be enslaved, exterminated, and/or persecuted once again while racist Muslims and woke leftists turn a blind eye because rAcIsM = pOwEr + pReJuDiCe and the nefarious, all-powerful, Freemason Illuminati Jews who practically control the whole world can't really be oppressed, can they?
Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Insaanistan wrote:
What I want is for all the land to go back to Palestine. But I know that’s impossible, and that the best solution is Israel is forced to demolish it’s illegal West Bank settlements while it and Egypt end the Gaza blockade and Israel stops bombing it just because. Also, Jerusalem recognized as the capitol of Palestine.
And I've already explained why that isn't a good idea. A one state solution is a bad idea and a red line for Israel. A two-state solution, while certainly ideal, has proven exceedingly difficult to put into practice.Major-Tom wrote:
I'm pretty Pro-Israel and certainly think that they have an existential right to exist and that they should defend themselves from all threats. But your what-aboutism is not constructive.
Just as one can launch into a tirade about the actions of Palestinians, one can do the same about the Israelis. There are bad actors and malicious groups on both sides, it is one of the rare situations where you can say "both sides" in good faith. What we also have to recognize is that most Palestinians are good and noble people against increased violence, the same way that most Israeli Jews are good and noble folk who have the same goal of peace.
Creating blanket statements about the populace of either Palestine or Israel is not constructive, rather, the focus should be on how we criticize (rightfully) groups like Hamas and Fatah, but also the militant, far-right-wing absolutists on the Israeli side. Netanyahu has done nothing to improve the chances of peace in the region either.
It doesn't matter who the Israeli PM is. I don't see an easy way out either for Jerusalem. Left-wing Labor tried to be generous and Israel got burned so badly during the Second Intifada and the multiple wars with Hamas-ruled Gaza that nobody's willing to risk their lives for the sake of peace at this point. Labor is now viewed as being overly dovish and has practically wiped itself out as a domestic political force. There's simply too much at stake.
As for the Palestinians, communist and Islamist terror groups enjoy an outsize presence in the Territories and Mahmoud Abbas certainly isn't helping to calm the situation down with the PA's terror-riddled textbooks and children's television programs urging kids to "commit martyrdom". People literally celebrate in the streets whenever one of their own mounts a terror attack and is killed in the process. They use the funerals of dead terrorists to dishonestly portray themselves as the victims of Israeli "aggression" and incite further antisemitic violence against Israelis. Streets and schools are named after prominent terrorists in Palestinian history such as Leila Khaled. Imagine if Pennsylvania Avenue was renamed to Adolf Hitler Avenue with the explicit blessing of the White House and Congress. Just imagine.
Israelis, for the most part, value human life way more than Palestinians do. They are willing to fight tooth and nail just to rescue just one of their soldiers in exchange for the release of thousands of Palestinian terrorists, some of whom have been caught feigning hunger strikes in order to elicit undeserved international sympathy. They are the exact opposite of a genocidal fascist regime. Hamas, by contrast, is a literal death cult and it was the Palestinian people who voted them in.
Not all Palestinians endorse terror and genocide, but terror groups have to enjoy a not-insignificant amount of popular support in order to remain relevant. Hamas was elected by the Palestinians in a democratic process. The Palestinians are as much to blame for the rise of Hamas as the German people were to blame for the rise of the Nazis at the time.
Having read the intro to the wiki article for Black September, I'm even more convinced than ever that the Palestinians simply don't deserve a state. They have proven themselves incapable of governing themselves peacefully and responsibly and coexisting with their neighbors, both Arab and Jewish alike, without launching deadly terror attacks against Israeli and Jordanian citizens. It's small wonder many Arab countries have turned their backs on them and Israel is formally at peace with both Jordan and Egypt.
I would be pleasantly surprised if none of that was the case and a Palestinian state in the West Bank turns out to be entirely peaceful and democratic. In that case, so much the better for Israelis and Palestinians alike now that we can finally see a two-state solution and pave the way for a lasting peace agreement that both sides are happy with.Tokora wrote:Israel already has Arab citizens so I don't see how giving rights to the rest of them and amending their constitution to make any attempts of genocide illegal. We can learn from Germany's mistakes can't we? I personally believe that it's possible for two groups of people to coexist without murdering each other.
I agree. No one should have to murder one another just to survive. I don't think we as a species are quite there yet. And Arab-Israelis (often misleadingly termed Palestinian-Israelis by AJE and other fake news sources) are equal before the law in Israel.
Anyway, this thread is about Iran's hypothetical response to Israel's de facto annihilation by BDS and I hesitate to veer into a general discussion of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict without possibly raising the ire of the mods so I think it's best if we all get back on track.
Glorious Hong Kong wrote:A one-state solution would entail just another Arab state in the Levant. Granting so-called Palestinians Israeli citizenship and formally annexing the entirety of Judea & Samaria + Gaza would be tantamount to Israel abolishing itself entirely. Iran and much of the Muslim world and virtue-signaling Left would quickly lose a convenient scapegoat while the Israeli Jewish minority would lose their only homeland and be reduced to a humiliated, persecuted, oppressed minority all over again. That's if they're allowed to stay and live. Otherwise, they will likely perish or be ethnically cleansed while racist Muslims and woke leftists gloat and celebrate over their corpses because mUh wHiTe JeWiSh pRiViLeGe. In the short term, Iran would hold street parties and celebrate into the night as Israeli Jews face a grim and uncertain future and liberal democracy suffers a grave setback in the region. In the long term, it would be business as usual for the Ayatollahs except they'll have to find another scapegoat to latch onto i.e. the United States.
The bolded/underlined parts are emphasized by me. GHK has been doing this in several threads now, but I've just pointed out in one thread some of the stuff that's at least flamebaiting, if not trolling.
