[DISCUSSION] Are naughty words now against the rules?

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

There's no new interpretation in play.

You say that yet it definitely seems like it is, since iirc (and I’m paraphrasing a bit), several admins and mods have stated in the past that unless any of these politicians and public figures being insulted have NS accounts then the insults aren’t actionable.

[The Black Forrest]

Naughty words are not inherently against the rules, but use of them is far more likely to see a post considered flaming / trolling, since words that are angry/insulting in nature are more likely to result in a post that is insulting (flaming) / likely to draw angry responses (trolling).

Ok. Might I suggest a little more clarification both in the rules and the messaging? NVI’s comment came across as he didn’t like the naughty language and was warning him for it.

Other then that; if you want to close this?....I am good.....

[Punished UMN]

The rule was always against nicknaming. "Cunt" isn't a nickname, it's an insult. The rule was always that we were allowed to directly insult politicians as long as we didn't use trollish nicknames, this is in fact a new interpretation. Just admit it was a freshman mistake, undo the warning, and move on instead of causing more drama with the "individual cases etc etc" dodge that's been here since before I got here in 2011.

[United Republic Empire]

Etiquette
It's free speech, so I can post whatever I like here, right?
Ahahahaha! Hahaha! Free speech! No, it's not. I run this web site, see, so you have to play by my rules. It's like my own Father Knows Best state.

In Legalese
BY USING THIS SITE, YOU SIGNIFY YOUR ACCEPTANCE TO THESE TERMS OF USE. If you do not agree to these terms and conditions, do not use this site.

You may submit content to NationStates.net so long as it is not obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, or defamatory, does not invade the privacy or infringe the intellectual property of a third party, and does not constitute "spam." You may not use a false e-mail address, impersonate any person or entity, attempt to "hack" the site or another player's account, nor otherwise mislead as to the origin of information.

^^^^
Literally copy & pasted from the Terms and Conditions of use - also from the FAQ page. It's stated clearly above that it is their site, their rules if you disagree then do not use their site. Just be more appreciative that we all don't live in a dictatorship and actually have access to sites like these.

[The Reformed American Republic]

No one is claiming that free speech exists here. People are just asking for clarification.

[Impostor]

Why not just obey the mods? Boom, done.

[Twilight Imperium]

Plenty of posters have called politicians cunts over the past few months, it's an easy search. Be consistent.

You're bringing a hockey stick to a tennis match, here. When has that ever worked?

"If you see rulebreaking content, report it. Be warned that tit for tat reporting will be seen as severely naughty behavior and warned accordingly by Farn's angryface."

Why not just obey the mods? Boom, done.

sus

[Torisakia]

Personally it seems like some are just upset they can't insult a political figure. Not every site is like Twitter, professionals have standards.

If we're going to bring up situations like these every time, then maybe it's best we just prohibit the topic altogether.

[The New California Republic]

To reiterate these posts I made earlier, as I feel it needs to be said again since several people who have posted here in recent hours do not seem to be understanding what the actual issue is here, namely that this is a consistency issue, and that the not calling politicians rude words that are not nicknames seems to be a new rule that has materialised out of nowhere in the past few weeks, and we are just wanting clarification on where the line now is:

There have been many and various instances in the current UKPol and its previous iterations where specific politicians have been called morons and much worse for certain actions. Hell, even the C-word has been dropped in there several times as well: search.php?keywords=Cunt&t=490455&sf=msgonly

The reason I'm bringing this to this thread is because I'm asking if I need to start adding a line to the OP of UKPol, that calling politicians such things is verboten, lest it be interpreted as trolling.

The standard has fallen due to how bad partisanship is in my country.

But that raises a consistency problem if that's the reason: calling a politician an insulting word in a USPol thread is verboten, but doing the exact same thing in an anywhere-else-Pol thread is fine...

[Ghost Land]

The rule was always against nicknaming. "Cunt" isn't a nickname, it's an insult. The rule was always that we were allowed to directly insult politicians as long as we didn't use trollish nicknames, this is in fact a new interpretation. Just admit it was a freshman mistake, undo the warning, and move on instead of causing more drama with the "individual cases etc etc" dodge that's been here since before I got here in 2011.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure I've even seen mod rulings to the effect of "he's a politician, pretty sure he doesn't use NS, so it's not really flaming/trolling." Plus, where is the line even to be drawn if insulting politicians is now against the rules? Would it be actionable if I were to call Joe Biden nuts, or suggest it's time for Nancy Pelosi to retire already? This is a totally new interpretation of the rules, and I've been here since 2012 so I too know what I'm talking about here.

[The New California Republic]

The rule was always against nicknaming. "Cunt" isn't a nickname, it's an insult. The rule was always that we were allowed to directly insult politicians as long as we didn't use trollish nicknames, this is in fact a new interpretation. Just admit it was a freshman mistake, undo the warning, and move on instead of causing more drama with the "individual cases etc etc" dodge that's been here since before I got here in 2011.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure I've even seen mod rulings to the effect of "he's a politician, pretty sure he doesn't use NS, so it's not really flaming/trolling." Plus, where is the line even to be drawn if insulting politicians is now against the rules? Would it be actionable if I were to call Joe Biden nuts, or suggest it's time for Nancy Pelosi to retire already? This is a totally new interpretation of the rules, and I've been here since 2012 so I too know what I'm talking about here.

Yes. The Mods need to look into this as a matter of urgency, as I believe it'll only be a day or so before another person gets caught in the invisible dragnet that has suddenly been thrown into the waters with no warning or consultation.

[Valrifell]

It has never been against the rules "flame" people not on the site as far back as I can remember. Heck, even I trotted through the first circles of Hades to dig up some old rulings that say as much.

Unhelpfully, "rules lawyering" isn't allowed, but it at least reveals that Moderation isn't being consistent here if this is expected to be a new standard:

viewtopic.php?p=33392931#p33392931
viewtopic.php?p=31379997#p31379997

Two mods, from 2017-2018, one cursory search of the moderation forum with the term "not on NS" (quotes included), I'm sure there are more backlogs to dig through for more. As shown, if I want to call Donald Trump a sniveling man baby that eats shit that is entirely my prerogative.

[The New California Republic]

Just for context, a few scans around some searches will show many instances of calling political figures rude words from the last UKPol thread, without any of them being deemed to be trolling:

Arsehole.
Bastard.
Cunt.
Fucker.
Idiot.
Moron.

And the one before that:

Arsehole.
Bastard.
Cunt.
Idiot.
Moron.

And the one before...(I think I've proved my point...).

[Greater Miami Shores]

Just for context, a few scans around some searches will show many instances of calling political figures rude words from the last UKPol thread, without any of them being deemed to be trolling:

Arsehole.
Bastard.
Cunt.
Fucker.
Idiot.
Moron.

And the one before that:

Arsehole.
Bastard.
Cunt.
Idiot.
Moron.

And the one before...(I think I've proved my point...).

I have the perfect solution to the problem.

Don't bait, don't flame, don't troll. It is easy to do.

Don't use any follow language against any of your fellow nations and their favorite politicians and VIPs.

And Problem Solved.

Do as I do. I have never gotten in trouble with the Mods for baiting, flaming or trolling my fellow nations and their favorite politicians and VIPS.

I don't use foul language.

I am very proud of myself for it.

and I am not the only one on NS.

I want to stay on NS forever and from beyond the grave.

I hate to see any fellow nations banned from NS forever - because we all love NS and the RPs.

No, I am not a saint and I am not perfect, only God is Perfect for those who believe there is a God and Spirits like I do, which I have posted about a few times before.

I commend the Moderators - The Mods.

GMS.

[The New California Republic]

Just for context, a few scans around some searches will show many instances of calling political figures rude words from the last UKPol thread, without any of them being deemed to be trolling:

Arsehole.
Bastard.
Cunt.
Fucker.
Idiot.
Moron.

And the one before that:

Arsehole.
Bastard.
Cunt.
Idiot.
Moron.

And the one before...(I think I've proved my point...).

I have the perfect solution to the problem.

Don't bait, don't flame, don't troll. It is easy to do.

You have completely missed the point here. This is a totally new interpretation of the rules that has come in with no announcement or consultation. It is setting a trap for forum users to unwittingly fall into. I have no doubt that is not the intent of the Mods, but that's what the effect of it will be.

[Twilight Imperium]

Just for context, a few scans around some searches will show many instances of calling political figures rude words from the last UKPol thread, without any of them being deemed to be trolling:

Arsehole.
Bastard.
Cunt.
Fucker.
Idiot.
Moron.

And the one before that:

Arsehole.
Bastard.
Cunt.
Idiot.
Moron.

And the one before...(I think I've proved my point...).

Were any of these reported?

[Greater Miami Shores]

I have the perfect solution to the problem.

Don't bait, don't flame, don't troll. It is easy to do.

You have completely missed the point here. This is a totally new interpretation of the rules that has come in with no announcement or consultation. It is setting a trap for forum users to unwittingly fall into. I have no doubt that is not the intent of the Mods, but that's what the effect of it will be.

I have not missed the point. I know this is a totally new interpretation of the rules. The Mods say it is not, but I strongly disagree with them.

But I commend them for it.

Respect your fellow nation persons favorite politicians and VIPs, with out using foul language and without breaking any NS Rules of decency towards your fellow nations and their favorite politicians and VIPs.

Respect your fellow nation persons right to disagree with you, without telling them I am right and you are wrong, and their is nothing to discuss or argue about, it leads to baiting, flaming, trolling, and using foul language, against each other.

There are many persons here who do not respect the rights of other persons views as I have described above. Which leads to foul language and breaking all the rules of decency on NS.

This is a Fact.

This respect is given it is not earned.

GMS.

[The New California Republic]

Just for context, a few scans around some searches will show many instances of calling political figures rude words from the last UKPol thread, without any of them being deemed to be trolling:

Arsehole.
Bastard.
Cunt.
Fucker.
Idiot.
Moron.

And the one before that:

Arsehole.
Bastard.
Cunt.
Idiot.
Moron.

And the one before...(I think I've proved my point...).

Were any of these reported?

Mods like Arch are fairly often in the thread, and several other people in the thread do report rule violations when they see them. And that's the point as well: nobody reported them because they have not deemed to be rulebreaking before. As others have pointed out in this thread, the precedent has been for insulting politicians to be deemed non-actionable, so why should anyone report it?

[Twilight Imperium]

Mods like Arch are fairly often in the thread, and several other people in the thread do report rule violations when they see them. And that's the point as well: nobody reported them because they have not deemed to be rulebreaking before. As others have pointed out in this thread, the precedent has been for insulting politicians to be deemed non-actionable, so why should anyone report it?

That sounds like "no". Dial back the salt and see if they have anything more to say, eh?

[The New California Republic]

You have completely missed the point here. This is a totally new interpretation of the rules that has come in with no announcement or consultation. It is setting a trap for forum users to unwittingly fall into. I have no doubt that is not the intent of the Mods, but that's what the effect of it will be.

I have not missed the point. I know this is a totally new interpretation of the rules. The Mods say it is not, but I strongly disagree with them.

But I commend them for it.

You commend the act of bringing in a new interpretation of the rules with no consultation and no warning that it is happening, so people fall into the trap unaware?

[The New California Republic]

Mods like Arch are fairly often in the thread, and several other people in the thread do report rule violations when they see them. And that's the point as well: nobody reported them because they have not deemed to be rulebreaking before. As others have pointed out in this thread, the precedent has been for insulting politicians to be deemed non-actionable, so why should anyone report it?

That sounds like "no". Dial back the salt and see if they have anything more to say, eh?

It's a no with very good reason. Why report something that has never been deemed to be rulebreaking before? It'd be like reporting someone for using the word "and" too many times in a post...

[Valrifell]

Just for context, a few scans around some searches will show many instances of calling political figures rude words from the last UKPol thread, without any of them being deemed to be trolling:

Arsehole.
Bastard.
Cunt.
Fucker.
Idiot.
Moron.

And the one before that:

Arsehole.
Bastard.
Cunt.
Idiot.
Moron.

And the one before...(I think I've proved my point...).

Were any of these reported?

See my post with two instances of calling someone offsite mean names being ruled not actionable because said figures were not on the site.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Were any of these reported?

Mods like Arch are fairly often in the thread, and several other people in the thread do report rule violations when they see them. And that's the point as well: nobody reported them because they have not deemed to be rulebreaking before. As others have pointed out in this thread, the precedent has been for insulting politicians to be deemed non-actionable, so why should anyone report it?

Like I understand the political nicknaming rule but why can’t I call Trump or Biden a cunt? Or BoJo a twat? Neither is a member of NS. Insulting politicians was never against the rules before. Until now. Which is why people are rather taken aback by this.

[The Federal Government of Iowa]

[Greater Miami Shores]

Were any of these reported?

Mods like Arch are fairly often in the thread, and several other people in the thread do report rule violations when they see them. And that's the point as well: nobody reported them because they have not deemed to be rulebreaking before. As others have pointed out in this thread, the precedent has been for insulting politicians to be deemed non-actionable, so why should anyone report it?

I don't see anything to argue about with the Mods, follow the new rules and problem solved.

The Mods should and need to put the new rules on the Mod Rules Forums. I suggest announce it on the News on our nation pages.

The Mods cant undo what was done in the past.

It is too much to go over.

The Mods can have a little leniency for awhile, like perhaps for a month, like unofficial warnings for a month, until we all get used to the new rules, after which time, the warnings are official.

Telling them so in the unofficial warnings.

Telling them the date the unofficial warnings ends.

I don't have any problems with the Mods new rules.

I commend the Mods for it.

GMS.