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by Valentine Z » Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:14 pm
♪ If you are reading my sig, I want you to have the best day ever ! You are worth it, do not let anyone get you down ! ♪
Glory to De Geweldige Sierlijke Katachtige Utopia en Zijne Autonome Machten ov Valentine Z !
(✿◠‿◠) ☆ \(^_^)/ ☆
♡ Issues Thread ♡ Photography Stuff ♡ Project: Save F7. ♡ Stats Analysis ♡
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by Bloodshade » Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:20 pm
The New California Republic wrote:No, not could, did. Folk are not deemed DOS on a whim; from what I know it involves discussions of several Moderators in the Mod Cave, where the points are put forward regarding why someone should be DOS, as well as any counterarguments. After discussions they vote on it, and a simple majority is needed for the DOS to pass.
Gandoor wrote:I mean for real, some of you guys are acting like this is some huge injustice instead of just some kerfuffle that 99% of the players won't care about on a mediocre online game.
Sedgistan wrote:Underlining is mine.
Discussion threads are for general policy discussions, not reopening a specific incident you are unhappy with. Thus unhappiness with the Shtet situation does not belong here, and if it looks like people are continuing to use this thread to revisit it, we will either remove those posts or have to lock the thread.
A general discussion on what information Moderation provides on DOSes, including confirming whether a player is DOS or not, and commenting on the reasons, is perfectly acceptable.
I will note that it is common practice when a DOS attempts to return to the site for their "innocent enquiries" to be either ignored or given similarly blunt replies. For someone to reach the status of being permanently banned from the site, their rules violations will have been persistent and/or egregious, and they will have been given ample explanations and opportunities to rectify their behaviour before becoming DOS. Once they reach DOS status they are no longer welcome and we have no further reason to waste time on them beyond removing traces of their attempted return.
The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:I think this Shtet person may have been economical with the truth here.
An interstellar civilization that survived the self-induced destruction of its now long-gone homeworld and is trying to live the good life, all the while avoiding getting its ass kicked around.
Bloodshade Broadcasting Company| Actually re-writing my lore, I should't be on the forums but I am | Updated my video game screenshots, features Planet Zoo and Warhammer 2 | I need sleep but sleep doesn't need me | Edelgard is the cutest warmonger |
by The New California Republic » Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:33 pm
Bloodshade wrote:The New California Republic wrote:No, not could, did. Folk are not deemed DOS on a whim; from what I know it involves discussions of several Moderators in the Mod Cave, where the points are put forward regarding why someone should be DOS, as well as any counterarguments. After discussions they vote on it, and a simple majority is needed for the DOS to pass.
And you’re so sure how exactly? You awfully assume the best out of them and I’m inclined to believe you have blind faith in their actions.
“From what I know” is not enough. Again, try to read my post from start to finish and understand the crux of what I’m trying to talk about because you’re frustratingly compliant to what the mods do and you might as well be reading from a script right now. I want your thoughts. I don’t want you explaining to me what the mods do behind closed doors. I don’t need you regurgitating information I already fucking know. You’re not helpful and neither are you making the case that the mods should not be obliged to share such information.
I’m not here to debate what the mods do in their echo chamber when deciding to ban someone or not. I’m here to talk about how trustworthy that process is to an outside viewer and why they don’t see fit to release any information about someone’s removal. You seem to be going by “Trust the mods, they know what’s best” when honestly, I’ve seen enough over the years that proves to me their needs to be more transparency. Why is that controversial? Wouldn’t that help foster a bit more trust? Is it too hard to ask? Again, I’m not here to defend Shtet. I am using Shtet as an example on why the mods need to be more transparent with their rulings.
Don’t be certain about your statements when you have absolutely no concrete information about the situation to back them up. You are just as clueless as I am. You can give the mods only so much benefit of the doubt until it gets tiresome.
If you plan on annoying me, congratulations. Thank you for not contributing to the thread whatsoever. Truly a gem.
by Bloodshade » Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:47 pm
The New California Republic wrote:If you are going to get angry with me about it for no real reason whatsoever other than I'm not giving you the answers you want to hear then I won't bother. If you want to rephrase your question with a little bit less of the going off half-cocked then I might consider responding to this.
An interstellar civilization that survived the self-induced destruction of its now long-gone homeworld and is trying to live the good life, all the while avoiding getting its ass kicked around.
Bloodshade Broadcasting Company| Actually re-writing my lore, I should't be on the forums but I am | Updated my video game screenshots, features Planet Zoo and Warhammer 2 | I need sleep but sleep doesn't need me | Edelgard is the cutest warmonger |
by The New California Republic » Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:54 pm
Bloodshade wrote:The New California Republic wrote:If you are going to get angry with me about it for no real reason whatsoever other than I'm not giving you the answers you want to hear then I won't bother. If you want to rephrase your question with a little bit less of the going off half-cocked then I might consider responding to this.
Let me rephrase for you, dear.
[...]
by Outer Sparta » Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:55 pm
Aeritai wrote:While I wasn't that active that much in F7 if they were a DOS player then it's just mod policy to delete a player that might've had a long history of warnings.
by Bloodshade » Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:59 pm
An interstellar civilization that survived the self-induced destruction of its now long-gone homeworld and is trying to live the good life, all the while avoiding getting its ass kicked around.
Bloodshade Broadcasting Company| Actually re-writing my lore, I should't be on the forums but I am | Updated my video game screenshots, features Planet Zoo and Warhammer 2 | I need sleep but sleep doesn't need me | Edelgard is the cutest warmonger |
by Kiu Ghesik » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:03 pm
Outer Sparta wrote:Aeritai wrote:While I wasn't that active that much in F7 if they were a DOS player then it's just mod policy to delete a player that might've had a long history of warnings.
You never know if they accumulated gameside warnings or not. Not everything is about the forums in regards to moderation history.
by The Unified Missourtama States » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:05 pm
Kiu Ghesik wrote:And, to echo Blood, I really am not comfortable with having to rely on the mods' word that they were just in banning someone based on locked-door discussions. I would really like a little more transparency.
by Kiu Ghesik » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:08 pm
by Bloodshade » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:14 pm
The Unified Missourtama States wrote:If you don't like it you can leave.
An interstellar civilization that survived the self-induced destruction of its now long-gone homeworld and is trying to live the good life, all the while avoiding getting its ass kicked around.
Bloodshade Broadcasting Company| Actually re-writing my lore, I should't be on the forums but I am | Updated my video game screenshots, features Planet Zoo and Warhammer 2 | I need sleep but sleep doesn't need me | Edelgard is the cutest warmonger |
by Godular » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:20 pm
Bloodshade wrote:The New California Republic wrote:If you are going to get angry with me about it for no real reason whatsoever other than I'm not giving you the answers you want to hear then I won't bother. If you want to rephrase your question with a little bit less of the going off half-cocked then I might consider responding to this.
Let me rephrase for you, dear.
What reason is there for the mods to continue maintaining their radio silence on rulings when it comes to DEAT’d or DOS’d nations? Why should the mods continue to ‘not waste their time’ on explaining their rulings to us when it clearly only fosters mistrust and paranoia? Why should I trust a mod’s ruling when they have, on multiple occasions, proven to make mistakes since they keep claiming to be so on multiple occasions? I’m sure you remember when they were speechless about their response time to the gore posting spree and read from a script like how they are now?
by Bloodshade » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:30 pm
Godular wrote:
Their response time was fine. I’ve seen longer delays for more egregious violations.
You are not owed an explanation as to why another player was rendered DOS, but you can be assured that it is not done without sufficient rationale or in a unilateral manner. It is quite possible for someone to be designated as DOS for gameside issues, which can understandably leave those who previously interacted with them on the forum to be left a little confused.
I know I was, and while this business saddens me, I will note that Shtet pretty much admitted to using an IP spoof that made them look like somebody else who may have been the target of a DOS ruling. In the same way that claiming the account was shared does not save your nation from mod action because the claim cannot be proven, Shtet’s story cannot be corroborated nor does it count as an alibi.
Such is unfortunate, but would reflect moderator consistency on the matter.
An interstellar civilization that survived the self-induced destruction of its now long-gone homeworld and is trying to live the good life, all the while avoiding getting its ass kicked around.
Bloodshade Broadcasting Company| Actually re-writing my lore, I should't be on the forums but I am | Updated my video game screenshots, features Planet Zoo and Warhammer 2 | I need sleep but sleep doesn't need me | Edelgard is the cutest warmonger |
by Lamoni » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:35 pm
Bloodshade wrote:NCR, I honestly don’t give a shit that I hurt your feelings. You’d think an NSGer would be more thick skinned but apparently, I’m wrong. Grow up and stop steering this topic away. You’re ignoring everything I have to say. You’re the one giving me basic regurgitated information and treating me like I just joined NS last week.
Licana on the M-21A2 MBT: "Well, it is one of the most badass tanks on NS."
Vortiaganica: Lamoni I understand fully, of course. The two (Lamoni & Lyras) are more inseparable than the Clinton family and politics.
Triplebaconation: Lamoni commands a quiet respect that carries its own authority. He is the Mandela of NS.
by Khoronzon » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:37 pm
Lamoni wrote:Between this post, and the two times that you have called NCR "dear," you are coming dangerously close to getting a warning for flaming. KNOCK IT OFF.
Godular wrote:Their response time was fine. I’ve seen longer delays for more egregious violations.
You are not owed an explanation as to why another player was rendered DOS, but you can be assured that it is not done without sufficient rationale or in a unilateral manner. It is quite possible for someone to be designated as DOS for gameside issues, which can understandably leave those who previously interacted with them on the forum to be left a little confused.
The world is no longer as it once was, moulded beyond recognition by the hands of its coming masters. Humanity is faced with a simple choice: evolve, or die.
by Godular » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:43 pm
Bloodshade wrote:Godular wrote:
Their response time was fine. I’ve seen longer delays for more egregious violations.
You are not owed an explanation as to why another player was rendered DOS, but you can be assured that it is not done without sufficient rationale or in a unilateral manner. It is quite possible for someone to be designated as DOS for gameside issues, which can understandably leave those who previously interacted with them on the forum to be left a little confused.
I know I was, and while this business saddens me, I will note that Shtet pretty much admitted to using an IP spoof that made them look like somebody else who may have been the target of a DOS ruling. In the same way that claiming the account was shared does not save your nation from mod action because the claim cannot be proven, Shtet’s story cannot be corroborated nor does it count as an alibi.
Such is unfortunate, but would reflect moderator consistency on the matter.
Eh, I was just using that example because it was rather recent in history and easy to recollect for many individuals but I see your point.
In any case, I should've expected as much. I don't know why I was fooling myself into thinking anything productive would come out of this thread.
I guess at the very least, I've expressed my dissatisfaction. I don't know if that amounts for something.
It's a very disappointing state of affairs that I'm witnessing but well, I thank you for taking the time to respond even if these answers are disappointing. There's not really much more I can do in this scenario then unless a mod decided to chime in. It's getting rather tiring. I don't know why I made this thread in the first place considering just how pointless this all is. I'm just going to fuck off under my rock.
by Cekoviu » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:45 pm
by Bloodshade » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:53 pm
Lamoni wrote:
Between this post, and the two times that you have called NCR "dear," you are coming dangerously close to getting a warning for flaming. KNOCK IT OFF.
Godular wrote:
Aye, it can seem unjust, and probably is for Shtet. It is however one of those things where seemingly minor actions can still have dire ramifications.
An interstellar civilization that survived the self-induced destruction of its now long-gone homeworld and is trying to live the good life, all the while avoiding getting its ass kicked around.
Bloodshade Broadcasting Company| Actually re-writing my lore, I should't be on the forums but I am | Updated my video game screenshots, features Planet Zoo and Warhammer 2 | I need sleep but sleep doesn't need me | Edelgard is the cutest warmonger |
by Godular » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:59 pm
Khoronzon wrote:Lamoni wrote:Between this post, and the two times that you have called NCR "dear," you are coming dangerously close to getting a warning for flaming. KNOCK IT OFF.
Yes, focus on Bloodshade's frustrated attitude and cuss words (gasp!) instead of paying any heed to the points raised in this thread regarding transparency in moderation. Great stuff, keep it up. You're really discrediting everyone's grievances.Godular wrote:Their response time was fine. I’ve seen longer delays for more egregious violations.
You are not owed an explanation as to why another player was rendered DOS, but you can be assured that it is not done without sufficient rationale or in a unilateral manner. It is quite possible for someone to be designated as DOS for gameside issues, which can understandably leave those who previously interacted with them on the forum to be left a little confused.
Is this a good state of affairs? Do you think it fosters trust in the moderation team? How does the community benefit in any way from this utterly opaque approach?
by Attempted Socialism » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:04 pm
Represented in the World Assembly by Ambassador Robert Mortimer Pride, called The Regicide Assume OOC unless otherwise indicated. My WA Authorship. | Cui Bono, quod seipsos custodes custodiunt? Bobberino: "The academic tone shines through." | Who am I in real life, my opinions and notes My NS career |
by The New California Republic » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:07 pm
Bloodshade wrote:NCR kept on regurgitating the same information to me
Bloodshade wrote:while ignoring my points
Bloodshade wrote:and telling me to rephrase my questions?
Bloodshade wrote:Who asked him to discuss this topic with me if he can't reply in good faith?
by Bloodshade » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:11 pm
An interstellar civilization that survived the self-induced destruction of its now long-gone homeworld and is trying to live the good life, all the while avoiding getting its ass kicked around.
Bloodshade Broadcasting Company| Actually re-writing my lore, I should't be on the forums but I am | Updated my video game screenshots, features Planet Zoo and Warhammer 2 | I need sleep but sleep doesn't need me | Edelgard is the cutest warmonger |
by Socialist Macronesia » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:15 pm
by Godular » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:21 pm
Socialist Macronesia wrote:Side note to everyone: according to the site rules and after further examination of the private policy and the data it has collected, I must note that NationStates has logged over twenty IP addresses of mine (probably from my recent move) and while it is unlikely I do believe that Wuchu may indeed have accidentally used another user's WA nation IP address due to his VPN. Or, even then, he could have been around someone who uses NS also and is in the WA, and may have interacted with their internet. I am no computer expert but if he got banned for WA multi-ing then that may be the problem. Now, if he did something truly egregious, then he deserves to be banned. However, I haven't seen any super controversial messages in his factbooks or forum posts, and he seemed to try to remain out of trouble (at least what I could see) and so although it isn't my concern by far, I think the mods may have made an honest mistake.
The problem is that if you don't say what Wuchu did, people will say it was mod-abuse, but if you do say what he did, he'll be humiliated.
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