[Discussion/Announcement] NSG's "Wing" Megathreads

[The Archbishopric of York]

This thread really demonstrates why achieving any kind of constructive dialogue between players and moderation on NS has always been so difficult.

You have gloaters from other parts of NSG and the wider site coming in for no reason other than to bait the people actually being affected by the moderators' decision. You have the professionally outraged who are here to rail against moderation because the attention boosts their little egos. And those with serious points to make and real grievances are drowned out until moderation take the decision to lock the thread because it's gotten so out of hand, then everyone whines about heavy-handed moderation and shutting down criticism, etc., etc.

[Atlacatl Batallion]

Then I suppose in your view it is okay if I doxx the doxxers, correct?

No, cause that's illegal. I would inform the police.

The cops won't do shit lmao.

Your lack of solutions is exactly why defending oneself is a good idea. Calling the cops won't do anything, calling out people on NS won't do anything, so the best solution is to become the criminal to stop a criminal, just like if I shot somebody breaking into my home.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Your police being inadequate has nothing to do with the rules of NS. If a law is being violated, only your police can deal with it. NS Mods are not employed to enforce the law. They are employed to enforce NationStates ToS on NationStates, nothing else matters.

Then I suppose in your view it is okay if I doxx the doxxers, correct?

After all, lack of law enforcement and lack of proper moderation in what is an offsite dispute between players means we have to defend ourselves somehow, and counter-doxxing should be on the table if moderation is going to not do anything about it.

Okay? No

Something the mods can do anything about if it happens offsite? Also no.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

No, cause that's illegal. I would inform the police.

The cops won't do shit lmao.

Your lack of solutions is exactly why defending oneself is a good idea. Calling the cops won't do anything, calling out people on NS won't do anything, so the best solution is to become the criminal to stop a criminal, just like if I shot somebody breaking into my home.

Dude I don't care about you, I'm not gonna make solutions for you. If the cops won't help you tough shit.

[Shazbotdom]

So as I said, if I call a friend who plays ns a cunt, should he be able to report me?

How do you prove that the person who called him a cunt is in fact me? How do you prove that anybody actually did it in the first place?

Because clearly I am talking about flaming on another player, and not at all about targeted harassment campaigns on other users.

And as I asked, which you have blatantly ignored.

How is Moderation supposed to gather evidence of this "harassment"? Especially seeing as:

1: Screenshots can be edited and therefore cannot be used as evidence.
2: Copy/Paste can be edited and therefore cannot be used as evidence.


So, praytell, how are they supposed to gather evidence of this? Take someone's word for it? HAHA. Very unlikely.

[Esternial]

Jesus Christ, I go on holiday for one week...

I'm trying to understand what the effects of this is beyond requiring some re-adjustment of the wing thread participants.

Rather than posting everything in a single thread, you'd now have to make a new thread for new topics. Frankly, I'd imagine it lowers the threshold for newcomers to jump in. A large megathread can seem like a drag to get into.

It's less convenient, but how is this such a monumental event?

[Nouveau Quebecois]

Jesus Christ, I go on holiday for one week...

I'm trying to understand what the effects of this is beyond requiring some re-adjustment of the wing thread participants.

Rather than posting everything in a single thread, you'd now have to make a new thread for new topics. Frankly, I'd imagine it lowers the threshold for newcomers to jump in. A large megathread can seem like a drag to get into.

It's less convenient, but how is this such a monumental event?

Because the reasoning is the Moderator's inability to moderate the thread. The community is being punished because the mods can't moderate. Apparently we don't like that.

[Atlacatl Batallion]

The cops won't do shit lmao.

Your lack of solutions is exactly why defending oneself is a good idea. Calling the cops won't do anything, calling out people on NS won't do anything, so the best solution is to become the criminal to stop a criminal, just like if I shot somebody breaking into my home.

Dude I don't care about you, I'm not gonna make solutions for you. If the cops won't help you tough shit.

And yet your suggestion is "call the cops" lmfao.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

Dude I don't care about you, I'm not gonna make solutions for you. If the cops won't help you tough shit.

And yet your suggestion is "call the cops" lmfao.

Yes. Chad yes moment. Does that not work for you?

[The Marlborough]

Seriously guys, drop the doxxing issue. Mods can't help with doxxing unless it's brought forward to them. The point I was making was that when the RWDT *did* try to move most stuff off site, NS followed us there and actually tried harming people's lives in the process so it's pointless to call for that because it was tried.

[Atlacatl Batallion]

Because clearly I am talking about flaming on another player, and not at all about targeted harassment campaigns on other users.

And as I asked, which you have blatantly ignored.

How is Moderation supposed to gather evidence of this "harassment"? Especially seeing as:

1: Screenshots can be edited and therefore cannot be used as evidence.
2: Copy/Paste can be edited and therefore cannot be used as evidence.


So, praytell, how are they supposed to gather evidence of this? Take someone's word for it? HAHA. Very unlikely.

Then, again, the only solution is to become that which you hate to stay safe.

If your solution is "there are no solutions", then the most effective solution is to become a threat to stop the threat.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Jesus Christ, I go on holiday for one week...

I'm trying to understand what the effects of this is beyond requiring some re-adjustment of the wing thread participants.

Rather than posting everything in a single thread, you'd now have to make a new thread for new topics. Frankly, I'd imagine it lowers the threshold for newcomers to jump in. A large megathread can seem like a drag to get into.

It's less convenient, but how is this such a monumental event?

The problem I see with it, especially in terms of creating a good discussion that's easier for new people to enter, is that if threads are further limited in political scope (the authoritarian left thread etc) then it risks creating even more of an echo chamber.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

And as I asked, which you have blatantly ignored.

How is Moderation supposed to gather evidence of this "harassment"? Especially seeing as:

1: Screenshots can be edited and therefore cannot be used as evidence.
2: Copy/Paste can be edited and therefore cannot be used as evidence.


So, praytell, how are they supposed to gather evidence of this? Take someone's word for it? HAHA. Very unlikely.

Then, again, the only solution is to become that which you hate to stay safe.

If your solution is "there are no solutions", then the most effective solution is to become a threat to stop the threat.

There's a solution, just apparently not for you.

[Shazbotdom]

And as I asked, which you have blatantly ignored.

How is Moderation supposed to gather evidence of this "harassment"? Especially seeing as:

1: Screenshots can be edited and therefore cannot be used as evidence.
2: Copy/Paste can be edited and therefore cannot be used as evidence.


So, praytell, how are they supposed to gather evidence of this? Take someone's word for it? HAHA. Very unlikely.

Then, again, the only solution is to become that which you hate to stay safe.

If your solution is "there are no solutions", then the most effective solution is to become a threat to stop the threat.

Yeah but you are wanting NS Moderators to deal with things that don't happen on NS. That's not going to happen. NS Mods abilities go about as far as the NS Website.

So your options are either one of these two options:

1: Report the rulebreaking on that Discord Server to the Mods/Admins of that specific Discord Server
or
2: Just fucking leave that Discord Server.


Simple, right?

[Nouveau Quebecois]

Then, again, the only solution is to become that which you hate to stay safe.

If your solution is "there are no solutions", then the most effective solution is to become a threat to stop the threat.

Yeah but you are wanting NS Moderators to deal with things that don't happen on NS. That's not going to happen. NS Mods abilities go about as far as the NS Website.

So your options are either one of these two options:

1: Report the rulebreaking on that Discord Server to the Mods/Admins of that specific Discord Server
or
2: Just fucking leave that Discord Server.


Simple, right?

Or go to the cops, because something illegal is happening lmao

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Then, again, the only solution is to become that which you hate to stay safe.

If your solution is "there are no solutions", then the most effective solution is to become a threat to stop the threat.

Yeah but you are wanting NS Moderators to deal with things that don't happen on NS. That's not going to happen. NS Mods abilities go about as far as the NS Website.

So your options are either one of these two options:

1: Report the rulebreaking on that Discord Server to the Mods/Admins of that specific Discord Server
or
2: Just fucking leave that Discord Server.


Simple, right?

Or report it to discord, who have gotten much better at that sort of thing lately.

[Shazbotdom]

Yeah but you are wanting NS Moderators to deal with things that don't happen on NS. That's not going to happen. NS Mods abilities go about as far as the NS Website.

So your options are either one of these two options:

1: Report the rulebreaking on that Discord Server to the Mods/Admins of that specific Discord Server
or
2: Just fucking leave that Discord Server.


Simple, right?

Or go to the cops, because something illegal is happening lmao

Yeah but he says that doesn't help. So we're taking that option away because apparently, according to him, it's a useless option. *insert shrug emoji*

[Atlacatl Batallion]

Then, again, the only solution is to become that which you hate to stay safe.

If your solution is "there are no solutions", then the most effective solution is to become a threat to stop the threat.

There's a solution, just apparently not for you.

While your "solution" is ineffective at best, my way of dealing with it is to not just become part of what this website has become.

Again, I am not getting paid to be here, so I see no reason exposing my personal security should be such a huge deal for you. What I was saying was, since this is going unresolved, a lot of us left under that reason, that there's really no recourse available for people who get harassed by players on this website on other sites over issues stemming from forum participation on this website.

If you want to play commando with doxxing and counterdoxxing, you guys go ahead. But this is part of the reason why I did leave, security concerns around my privacy. I have a life to live, and I am not about to get it ruined just because of some disagreement with some nobody on a website that frankly, end of the day, is just entertainment.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

There's a solution, just apparently not for you.

While your "solution" is ineffective at best, my way of dealing with it is to not just become part of what this website has become.

Again, I am not getting paid to be here, so I see no reason exposing my personal security should be such a huge deal for you. What I was saying was, since this is going unresolved, a lot of us left under that reason, that there's really no recourse available for people who get harassed by players on this website on other sites over issues stemming from forum participation on this website.

If you want to play commando with doxxing and counterdoxxing, you guys go ahead. But this is part of the reason why I did leave, security concerns around my privacy. I have a life to live, and I am not about to get it ruined just because of some disagreement with some nobody on a website that frankly, end of the day, is just entertainment.

Ok bro literally do what you want I really don't care about your personal situation and I'm sure that sentiment is echoed by other people here.

The point is though, NS Mods can't and should not help you.

[Atlacatl Batallion]

While your "solution" is ineffective at best, my way of dealing with it is to not just become part of what this website has become.

Again, I am not getting paid to be here, so I see no reason exposing my personal security should be such a huge deal for you. What I was saying was, since this is going unresolved, a lot of us left under that reason, that there's really no recourse available for people who get harassed by players on this website on other sites over issues stemming from forum participation on this website.

If you want to play commando with doxxing and counterdoxxing, you guys go ahead. But this is part of the reason why I did leave, security concerns around my privacy. I have a life to live, and I am not about to get it ruined just because of some disagreement with some nobody on a website that frankly, end of the day, is just entertainment.

Ok bro literally do what you want I really don't care about your personal situation and I'm sure that sentiment is echoed by other people here.

The point is though, NS Mods can't and should not help you.

Then NS mods should expect more people to leave, because they're not helping you either.

If you can't see that a serious issue such as literally ruining people's lives should be addressed by the community, then why do you think your plight to open up a thread is a more serious concern to them?

[Nouveau Quebecois]

Ok bro literally do what you want I really don't care about your personal situation and I'm sure that sentiment is echoed by other people here.

The point is though, NS Mods can't and should not help you.

Then NS mods should expect more people to leave, because they're not helping you either.

If you can't see that a serious issue such as literally ruining people's lives should be addressed by the community, then why do you think your plight to open up a thread is a more serious concern to them?

Because it's occurring on site.

And I don't care if your life is getting ruined really.

[USS Monitor]

There's a solution, just apparently not for you.

While your "solution" is ineffective at best, my way of dealing with it is to not just become part of what this website has become.

Again, I am not getting paid to be here, so I see no reason exposing my personal security should be such a huge deal for you. What I was saying was, since this is going unresolved, a lot of us left under that reason, that there's really no recourse available for people who get harassed by players on this website on other sites over issues stemming from forum participation on this website.

If you want to play commando with doxxing and counterdoxxing, you guys go ahead. But this is part of the reason why I did leave, security concerns around my privacy. I have a life to live, and I am not about to get it ruined just because of some disagreement with some nobody on a website that frankly, end of the day, is just entertainment.

You keep talking about how you left because it was unsafe, and yet you are still here.

Also, you're the only one that seems to want to play commando.

[WayNeacTia]

It's called REDDIT. This is a political simulation game that involves running nations. Why there is even a general forum for chatting about shit, and major news stories is beyond me. If you check the posting history of a majority of the nations in General, you will notice 99% of their posts are only in General. Most of the nations that are posting in general, with huge post counts could care less about the game. Just my opinion, but I don't think the arrow missed the target by much.

All for deleting General Discussion and Fifth Dimension? NS Mods would be down since it'll cut their job duties by half.

You know, I have been reading through your comments in this thread here, and I have come to one unmistakable conclusion. You don't like moderation. That's all fine and dandy, but just keep in mind you did agree to the terms of service when you created your nation. If you don't like those terms anymore, you are free to leave and not return to the site. I would put large sums of money on a bet that there isn't anyone twisting your arm and forcing you to log in. If I were you I would consider myself extremely fortunate that the hammer of doom hasn't come crashing down on you for some your "opinions" in this here discussion, So why don't you do us all a huge favor and dial it back about 30 or 40 notches?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Ok bro literally do what you want I really don't care about your personal situation and I'm sure that sentiment is echoed by other people here.

The point is though, NS Mods can't and should not help you.

Then NS mods should expect more people to leave, because they're not helping you either.

If you can't see that a serious issue such as literally ruining people's lives should be addressed by the community, then why do you think your plight to open up a thread is a more serious concern to them?

Some communities, particularly in nsgp, have dealt with this. There are people who nobody acceps in their regions because of just this reason.

[The Archbishopric of York]

The discussion on off-site doxxing is a threadjack and should end here.

Jesus Christ, I go on holiday for one week...

I'm trying to understand what the effects of this is beyond requiring some re-adjustment of the wing thread participants.

Rather than posting everything in a single thread, you'd now have to make a new thread for new topics. Frankly, I'd imagine it lowers the threshold for newcomers to jump in. A large megathread can seem like a drag to get into.

It's less convenient, but how is this such a monumental event?

It's true that having an array of individual threads instead of a megathread would probably make it easier for newcomers to involve themselves, but by the same token it would make it more difficult to maintain the cohesiveness of the community that the "wing threads" had given rise to. This might have been a fair argument around the time that those threads were first created- I made similar complaints myself IIRC- but after all this time a community has grown out of those threads which quite understandably doesn't want to be killed off. Besides that, individual threads devoted to particular topics would not allow for the sort of wide-ranging and meandering conversations that went on in the RWDT and LWDT.