[Discussion/Announcement] NSG's "Wing" Megathreads

[Nouveau Quebecois]

As someone who dipped his toes in the LWDT and didn't like it for basically the reasons it's now closed, I can't say I disagree with the decision. However, I do think the announcement was heavy-handed and could have been done with better engagement with the active posters in those threads.

At least Reppy didn't forget her graphic design. That's the important part passed.

[Atlacatl Batallion]

Because there was a time where NSG offered a unique sort of dive into debate and discussion with a certain charm and character and realism to it that couldn't be found elsewhere online. However over the years from a combination of things it has gone from a place where I could actually learn things and interact with educated people who offered a wide variety of viewpoints on topics to little more than low effort shitposts that would be banned for trolling anywhere but get excused here. I'd like to try and get some of that old spark back if possible.

Well you do that with informed and thoughtful argument. The "spark" of hostile words never did drive debate, more or less lax moderation wasn't a major factor either. In my opinion, it was the harsh cutting of post pyramids which destroyed good one-on-one debate and caused a free-for-all where posters can escape from a losing position but sandbagging for ONE post, or more if that doesn't work.

Also again, in the past we have tried to leave, certain users who I won't name followed and tried to cause real world repurcussions when we did.

This doesn't make any sense to me. Did they bear such a grudge, and why if the effect is to drive you back here?

I am privy to some of what is happening off site and yes, there were people with such a grudge.

The effect to drive people back here was an unintended side effect, given that being public is what got most people targeted in the first place, and the only solution to the off-site harassment (which people brought up before and moderation just said "not our problem") was to come back here, as having NS as a one-stop for conflict makes more sense when you're basically being harassed off site and nobody can do anything about it apparently. Not even your volunteers.

[Shazbotdom]

And yet, Banter, even if between, is still against the rules if it breaks the rules. Why, you ask? Because it comes down to something that has been stated over and over and OVER again.

If it looks like rulebreaking to a passer-by, then they can report it. It doesn't matter, if it breaks a rule (even between friends) you will get dinged for it.

It's pretty damn simple, tbh. I don't understand why you can't grasp it?

We all grasp it, we don't like it. Why isn't that easy for you to grasp?

Because your dislike of the decision is drenched in a whole ton of "oh, woe is mee, I can't flame my friends and get away with it" patheticness?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Stop trying to change the NSG I have lived on for years. Is what I meant.

I didn't mean it was any less YOUR NSG, you know. It's all of ours, I'm just pushing back against the idea that NSG should adopt the same standard as "most" other places, this seems bound to destroy a unique quality, and it's quite unnecessary if those other places are an option for you.

Banter used to be tolerated and allowed in NSG.

Can you give some examples?

[USS Monitor]

Could you guys make it any more blatant that your "Authoritarian" right and left threads are just trying to make an end-run around this ruling?

[Nouveau Quebecois]

Could you guys make it any more blatant that your "Authoritarian" right and left threads are just trying to make an end-run around this ruling?

Well a mod posted on it and didn't say anything.

[Grenartia]

Unlike the doomsayers, I remember the time before the megathreads, when cohesive discussions and bantz were, unbelievably, had.

Cohesive discussions (outside of certain threads, like the aforementioned megathreads) ceased to be a thing by 2015/2016 tbh.

They existed before, and they'll exist again if you let them.

[Attempted Socialism]

As someone who dipped his toes in the LWDT and didn't like it for basically the reasons it's now closed, I can't say I disagree with the decision. However, I do think the announcement was heavy-handed and could have been done with better engagement with the active posters in those threads.

At least Reppy didn't forget her graphic design. That's the important part passed.

You not being banned for your repeated baiting and excessive bad-faith posting is an excellent counterargument to every point you have tried to make in this thread, y'know. If they were the shadowy, vengeful and triggerhappy shift-working out-to-get-you-types of your imagination, you'd have racked up several weeks worth of ban by now. I don't think your posts have been worth engaging with and won't going forward.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

People were forced into megathreads because the mods locked smaller threads and merged them together a couple of years ago, now the mods are banning two of the longest-running megathread series.
It's like they don't actually want discussion on nsg.

[Atlacatl Batallion]

Unlike the doomsayers, I remember the time before the megathreads, when cohesive discussions and bantz were, unbelievably, had.

Cohesive discussions (outside of certain threads, like the aforementioned megathreads) ceased to be a thing by 2015/2016 tbh.

To be fair, the megathreads are a symptom to a bigger problem, and they became places where cohesive, intelligent discussions were being hardly had.

The bigger problem is the fact many people who were venerable posters left with a bad taste in their mouth after all the controversial decisions because of the need to incite drama in this website, and a lot of us don't have either the time, or the patience to deal with this.

Nobody is getting paid to post here, so why should we tolerate a moderation team and a "boss" of said mod team that isn't even paying us to tolerate them?

[Nouveau Quebecois]

At least Reppy didn't forget her graphic design. That's the important part passed.

You not being banned for your repeated baiting and excessive bad-faith posting is an excellent counterargument to every point you have tried to make in this thread, y'know. If they were the shadowy, vengeful and triggerhappy shift-working out-to-get-you-types of your imagination, you'd have racked up several weeks worth of ban by now. I don't think your posts have been worth engaging with and won't going forward.

Luckily the Mods have made it clear that "intent" is something but not everything but maybe something when it comes to rulings. And I don't know if you read my comments (which you obviously did if you think they're rulebreaking) but my whole gig is that the mods are not

[...] triggerhappy shift-working [...]

[Nouveau Quebecois]

People were forced into megathreads because the mods locked smaller threads and merged them together a couple of years ago, now the mods are banning two of the longest-running megathread series.
It's like they don't actually want discussion on nsg.

Yeah because then they won't have to moderate it despite being a moderator, essentially all said and done in the OP.

[The Marlborough]

Banter used to be tolerated and allowed in NSG.

Can you give some examples?

I'm not going to start finding rando things from 2013 or 2014.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Cohesive discussions (outside of certain threads, like the aforementioned megathreads) ceased to be a thing by 2015/2016 tbh.

To be fair, the megathreads are a symptom to a bigger problem, and they became places where cohesive, intelligent discussions were being hardly had.

The bigger problem is the fact many people who were venerable posters left with a bad taste in their mouth after all the controversial decisions because of the need to incite drama in this website, and a lot of us don't have either the time, or the patience to deal with this.

Nobody is getting paid to post here, so why should we tolerate a moderation team and a "boss" of said mod team that isn't even paying us to tolerate them?

Please don't post about things several years ago with a puppet from 2020, it does make you look a bit silly.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Can you give some examples?

I'm not going to start finding rando things from 2013 or 2014.

I recall it used to be acceptable to call people hypocrits or liars, given proper context (ie comparing one of their statements to another) but it never seemed necessary or even desirable in order to advance an argument. I don't miss people calling me names, whether they consider themselves a "friend" or not.

[Atlacatl Batallion]

To be fair, the megathreads are a symptom to a bigger problem, and they became places where cohesive, intelligent discussions were being hardly had.

The bigger problem is the fact many people who were venerable posters left with a bad taste in their mouth after all the controversial decisions because of the need to incite drama in this website, and a lot of us don't have either the time, or the patience to deal with this.

Nobody is getting paid to post here, so why should we tolerate a moderation team and a "boss" of said mod team that isn't even paying us to tolerate them?

Please don't post about things several years ago with a puppet from 2020, it does make you look a bit silly.

Would do otherwise, but I left this website a long while ago for a good reason, moderation's willingness to put up with off-site harassment when it involves player-to-player harassment being one of them.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

I'm not going to start finding rando things from 2013 or 2014.

I recall it used to be acceptable to call people hypocrits or liars, given proper context (ie comparing one of their statements to another) but it never seemed necessary or even desirable in order to advance an argument. I don't miss people calling me names, whether they consider themselves a "friend" or not.

The thing about friendship is that it is mutual. Meaning you can choose when and when you do not want to be called names.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

Please don't post about things several years ago with a puppet from 2020, it does make you look a bit silly.

Would do otherwise, but I left this website a long while ago for a good reason, moderation's willingness to put up with off-site harassment when it involves player-to-player harassment being one of them.

Ok, even I am confused what you want the Moderators to do about off-site harassment.

[South Odreria 2]

I'm not going to start finding rando things from 2013 or 2014.

I recall it used to be acceptable to call people hypocrits or liars, given proper context (ie comparing one of their statements to another) but it never seemed necessary or even desirable in order to advance an argument. I don't miss people calling me names, whether they consider themselves a "friend" or not.

Then don’t tell the mods you’re ok with it.

[Grenartia]

Please don't post about things several years ago with a puppet from 2020, it does make you look a bit silly.

Don't lecture people who have been here longer than you about events which they witnessed.

[Atlacatl Batallion]

Would do otherwise, but I left this website a long while ago for a good reason, moderation's willingness to put up with off-site harassment when it involves player-to-player harassment being one of them.

Ok, even I am confused what you want the Moderators to do about off-site harassment.

Addressing it when it is brought up to them and ban people who do it accordingly would be a good start.

They say they want to start enforcing the rules consistently, and harassment is a rule they have, but their rule is way behind the times with Discord groups being little cliques on this website that harass other players to silence them, and when brought up all people say is "oh well, not my problem, it was off site so whatever".

[Grenartia]

Ok, even I am confused what you want the Moderators to do about off-site harassment.

Addressing it when it is brought up to them and ban people who do it accordingly would be a good start.

They say they want to start enforcing the rules consistently, and harassment is a rule they have, but their rule is way behind the times with Discord groups being little cliques on this website that harass other players to silence them, and when brought up all people say is "oh well, not my problem, it was off site so whatever".

Indeed. Its quite the convenient little loophole that needs to be closed.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

Ok, even I am confused what you want the Moderators to do about off-site harassment.

Addressing it when it is brought up to them and ban people who do it accordingly would be a good start.

They say they want to start enforcing the rules consistently, and harassment is a rule they have, but their rule is way behind the times with Discord groups being little cliques on this website that harass other players to silence them, and when brought up all people say is "oh well, not my problem, it was off site so whatever".

Do you know why police departments have jurisdictions? Or why the FBI is not allowed to investigate in Canada, and CSIS vice versa? I know it's kind of a reach but you can see what I'm getting at here and how silly your suggestion is, right?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I recall it used to be acceptable to call people hypocrits or liars, given proper context (ie comparing one of their statements to another) but it never seemed necessary or even desirable in order to advance an argument. I don't miss people calling me names, whether they consider themselves a "friend" or not.

The thing about friendship is that it is mutual. Meaning you can choose when and when you do not want to be called names.

I'd rather it not be a binary state, measured by whether I do or don't report them.

I manage to be reasonably civil to most people, most people are neither friend nor enemy, and if they never express strong opinions one way or the other they can stay a neutral indefinitely.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

The thing about friendship is that it is mutual. Meaning you can choose when and when you do not want to be called names.

I'd rather it not be a binary state, measured by whether I do or don't report them.

I manage to be reasonably civil to most people, most people are neither friend nor enemy, and if they never express strong opinions one way or the other they can stay a neutral indefinitely.

Okay if what you're trying to say is you don't have friends on this site then just say "no, this guy isn't related to me, I want him punished." What's wrong with being a binary state?