[Discussion/Announcement] NSG's "Wing" Megathreads

[Lavan Tiri]

For the record, GHRs regarding alleged moderator misconduct are not addressed by any member of the moderation team. That would be an instant "that mod gets removed from their position" level offense. Those get flagged for the admins to look at, hence why the "complaints of mod abuse-" boilerplate includes that bit about "the administrators have very little patience for frivolous or outright fraudulent reports, and are liable to dismiss incomplete, unspecific, or wildly generalized complaints outright." [violet] and Max get quite testy about their time being wasted on unspecific, wildly generalized complaints.

Ah, then I was incorrect. I've spent nearly 10 years thinking it was just a different Mod, or maybe you, Repi.

Although it's been almost 2 years since I've been on NS for more than a day so.

[Jedi Council]

Having been on the site for seven years now, this is way more backlash than I have ever seen.

Everyone needs to lay off the Mods a bit, I am sure there is alot to the job that we all don't see, and given how much shit does go on on this site, the stuff we do see is fairly unenviable work. Don't feel the need to be a dick just because you don't like everything they do.

As for the issue at hand, I did not participate in the REDT or the LWDT, largely because I found them to be cliquey, and frankly because of my own lack of interest in most of what I read there. That being said, I am sure I am not alone in noticing a heavy flow of reports and misbehaviour from both threads, though, the RWDT seems to be worse in that regard.

Having little personal experience in the threads at hand, I can understand the anger at their closure, especially for those long time players who developed communities and friendships.

Frankly, it is a bit of a rock and a hard place situation. Continuing to allow the threads to rack up report after report, devolve into cliques, and ignore site rules is a problem. But so is removing them entirely.

I think the best thing to do would be to keep them in place, and elevate either new mods to deal specifically with these threads, or for these threads to commit to a self policing scheme, perhaps with a Mod supervising.

Either way, for those who want these threads to remain, the best way to do that is through polite, cordial, rational argument, not shit posting or waving your fist at your screen. It wont work. If anything, it will make things worse.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

Having been on the site for seven years now, this is way more backlash than I have ever seen.

Everyone needs to lay off the Mods a bit, I am sure there is alot to the job that we all don't see, and given how much shit does go on on this site, the stuff we do see is fairly unenviable work. Don't feel the need to be a dick just because you don't like everything they do.

As for the issue at hand, I did not participate in the REDT or the LWDT, largely because I found them to be cliquey, and frankly because of my own lack of interest in most of what I read there. That being said, I am sure I am not alone in noticing a heavy flow of reports and misbehaviour from both threads, though, the RWDT seems to be worse in that regard.

Having little personal experience in the threads at hand, I can understand the anger at their closure, especially for those long time players who developed communities and friendships.

Frankly, it is a bit of a rock and a hard place situation. Continuing to allow the threads to rack up report after report, devolve into cliques, and ignore site rules is a problem. But so is removing them entirely.

I think the best thing to do would be to keep them in place, and elevate either new mods to deal specifically with these threads, or for these threads to commit to a self policing scheme, perhaps with a Mod supervising.

Either way, for those who want these threads to remain, the best way to do that is through polite, cordial, rational argument, not shit posting or waving your fist at your screen. It wont work. If anything, it will make things worse.

What are some other incidents that have seen almost as much Moderator backlash? For historical reference.

[Luziyca]

Sure, let's have every single mod on this site work on this forum that doesn't pay them 24/7/365, with no breaks whatsoever. It's not like they need to eat, to pay bills, to work, to sleep, or anything like that.

Tbh it's not hard to have 24/7 mod coverage. Recruiting people from different timezones so you always have people on hand is hella easy.

I'm sure that's what they already do.

Sure, let's have every single mod on this site work on this forum that doesn't pay them 24/7/365, with no breaks whatsoever. It's not like they need to eat, to pay bills, to work, to sleep, or anything like that.

Everyone needs to eat, pay bills, work, and sleep. None of those activities are NS Mod-exclusive.

But because you want them to proactively go through every thread, it means that unless we drastically expand the mod team to include people who really shouldn't be part of it, the only way that such a proactive approach can work is if the mods do what I suggested, which obviously will not happen, given human limitations.

For the record, GHRs regarding alleged moderator misconduct are not addressed by any member of the moderation team. That would be an instant "that mod gets removed from their position" level offense. Those get flagged for the admins to look at, hence why the "complaints of mod abuse-" boilerplate includes that bit about "the administrators have very little patience for frivolous or outright fraudulent reports, and are liable to dismiss incomplete, unspecific, or wildly generalized complaints outright." [violet] and Max get quite testy about their time being wasted on unspecific, wildly generalized complaints.

Ok, so has a Moderator Misconduct report ever gone through to the 'reprimand said mod' stage?

There was a mod who got herself fired from the mod team post-2004 election, when she abused her mod powers (can't remember the name), and I think Dread Lady Nathicana was forced to resign several years ago from the mod team, though I'm not sure if it was because she abused her mod powers or if it was something else.

[Lavan Tiri]

I made a post but then it disappeared out of thin air when I clicked the post button...

*insert generic dad milk store joke here*

It was deleted before you could even post it, the mods have become too powerful.

Having been on the site for seven years now, this is way more backlash than I have ever seen.

Everyone needs to lay off the Mods a bit, I am sure there is alot to the job that we all don't see, and given how much shit does go on on this site, the stuff we do see is fairly unenviable work. Don't feel the need to be a dick just because you don't like everything they do.

As for the issue at hand, I did not participate in the REDT or the LWDT, largely because I found them to be cliquey, and frankly because of my own lack of interest in most of what I read there. That being said, I am sure I am not alone in noticing a heavy flow of reports and misbehaviour from both threads, though, the RWDT seems to be worse in that regard.

Having little personal experience in the threads at hand, I can understand the anger at their closure, especially for those long time players who developed communities and friendships.

Frankly, it is a bit of a rock and a hard place situation. Continuing to allow the threads to rack up report after report, devolve into cliques, and ignore site rules is a problem. But so is removing them entirely.

I think the best thing to do would be to keep them in place, and elevate either new mods to deal specifically with these threads, or for these threads to commit to a self policing scheme, perhaps with a Mod supervising.

Either way, for those who want these threads to remain, the best way to do that is through polite, cordial, rational argument, not shit posting or waving your fist at your screen. It wont work. If anything, it will make things worse.

What are some other incidents that have seen almost as much Moderator backlash? For historical reference.

There was that thing with Mal in the WA a few years back

[The Reformed American Republic]

Because the cases are so old, they would not lead to escalating punishments if you broke another rule today.

Old warnings can be used against a poster. Not as often as newer ones, but old warnings are not meaningless.

[Neutraligon]

For the record, GHRs regarding alleged moderator misconduct are not addressed by any member of the moderation team. That would be an instant "that mod gets removed from their position" level offense. Those get flagged for the admins to look at, hence why the "complaints of mod abuse-" boilerplate includes that bit about "the administrators have very little patience for frivolous or outright fraudulent reports, and are liable to dismiss incomplete, unspecific, or wildly generalized complaints outright." [violet] and Max get quite testy about their time being wasted on unspecific, wildly generalized complaints.

Ok, so has a Moderator Misconduct report ever gone through to the 'reprimand said mod' stage?

Yes, I will not go into names but moderators have been removed for misconduct. Mods have also been told to either step down, or be forcibly removed

[Santheres]

Also just a friendly heads up but the dark red text is nigh impossible to read for users who have a dark theme and value their eyesight.

'

I mean, I think it's fine, but I'll adjust one shade up, which looks absolutely okay in both themes to me. I value having my views as a mod and a player kept easily separated, however, and the color helps there. Thanks for the heads-up.

Does it not? Because I've never seen someone reported for their pattern of low-key trolling, since their trolling is generally not reported. So, how about you toss one over to me and let's give it a shot? You might be wrong about their pattern but if you're that upset about it, do you have anything to lose by giving me the chance to actually look into it?

Not optimistic but I’ll do one tomorrow after work.

Thank you! I know there's no real way to ping me, so I'll watch for something.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

There was a mod who got herself fired from the mod team post-2004 election, when she abused her mod powers (can't remember the name), and I think Dread Lady Nathicana was forced to resign several years ago from the mod team, though I'm not sure if it was because she abused her mod powers or if it was something else.

LOL 2004? AND THE DETAILS AREN'T CLEAR!?



Nah, screw that. Who will watch the watches but ourselves. I wanna lobby for a public audit of the Mod team. Can I do that? What if I get a thread going? Maybe I can get some NS celebrities to vouch for it's legitimacy.

[The Marlborough]

Having been on the site for seven years now, this is way more backlash than I have ever seen.

Everyone needs to lay off the Mods a bit, I am sure there is alot to the job that we all don't see, and given how much shit does go on on this site, the stuff we do see is fairly unenviable work. Don't feel the need to be a dick just because you don't like everything they do.

As for the issue at hand, I did not participate in the REDT or the LWDT, largely because I found them to be cliquey, and frankly because of my own lack of interest in most of what I read there. That being said, I am sure I am not alone in noticing a heavy flow of reports and misbehaviour from both threads, though, the RWDT seems to be worse in that regard.

Having little personal experience in the threads at hand, I can understand the anger at their closure, especially for those long time players who developed communities and friendships.

Frankly, it is a bit of a rock and a hard place situation. Continuing to allow the threads to rack up report after report, devolve into cliques, and ignore site rules is a problem. But so is removing them entirely.

I think the best thing to do would be to keep them in place, and elevate either new mods to deal specifically with these threads, or for these threads to commit to a self policing scheme, perhaps with a Mod supervising.

Either way, for those who want these threads to remain, the best way to do that is through polite, cordial, rational argument, not shit posting or waving your fist at your screen. It wont work. If anything, it will make things worse.

What are some other incidents that have seen almost as much Moderator backlash? For historical reference.

ZS and it was actually worse than this.

[Lavan Tiri]

What are some other incidents that have seen almost as much Moderator backlash? For historical reference.

ZS and it was actually worse than this.

What was that one?

[USS Monitor]

Because the cases are so old, they would not lead to escalating punishments if you broke another rule today.

Old warnings can be used against a poster. Not as often as newer ones, but old warnings are not meaningless.

Years-old warnings are not a good indicator of the current state of the mod team. The mod team has been through several policy changes and personnel changes since those warnings were issued.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Having been on the site for seven years now, this is way more backlash than I have ever seen.

Everyone needs to lay off the Mods a bit, I am sure there is alot to the job that we all don't see, and given how much shit does go on on this site, the stuff we do see is fairly unenviable work. Don't feel the need to be a dick just because you don't like everything they do.

There's really not much you don't see. There are people on NS who mod elsewhere, it's not some big special thing. It's not a hard job either unless you deliberately make it hard for yourselves, which NS staff does.

There was that thing with Mal in the WA a few years back

Which could have been easily avoided by simply not letting game players be game mods and not letting forum users be forum mods. Avoiding even the slightest potential possibility of bias is an important part of remaining impartial and keeping community trust when you enforce rules.

[The Marlborough]

ZS and it was actually worse than this.

What was that one?

A poster not so subtly alluded to going on trips to SE Asia to have sex with children and when it was reported initially nothing was done and a massive shitstorm had to be launched for anything to be done.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

There was that thing with Mal in the WA a few years back

Please indulge.

Ok, so has a Moderator Misconduct report ever gone through to the 'reprimand said mod' stage?

Yes, I will not go into names but moderators have been removed for misconduct. Mods have also been told to either step down, or be forcibly removed

... And we're supposed to just take your word for it? That's that? Oh I'm sure the Mods are so quick to hold their own accountable and impartial, just look at the 'he who shall not be named' they disciplined!

[The Kingdom of Glitter]

There was that thing with Mal in the WA a few years back

From what I recall this had waaaaaaay more backlash than this current issue. It struck a nerve with a lot of people gameside in a way that political posting in wing mega-threads just doesn’t stack up to.

Regardless there’s a lot of really absurd ideas being floated here. Whatever your opinion on moderation is, asking them to micro-manage threads and proactively go through hundreds of posts a day (megathreads produce that many) to see who is violating the rules is simply unrealistic. It isn’t going to happen.

[The Reformed American Republic]

What was that one?

A poster not so subtly alluded to going on trips to SE Asia to have sex with children and when it was reported initially nothing was done and a massive shitstorm had to be launched for anything to be done.

And didn't it only end with a warning?

[Jedi Council]

Having been on the site for seven years now, this is way more backlash than I have ever seen.

Everyone needs to lay off the Mods a bit, I am sure there is alot to the job that we all don't see, and given how much shit does go on on this site, the stuff we do see is fairly unenviable work. Don't feel the need to be a dick just because you don't like everything they do.

There's really not much you don't see. There are people on NS who mod elsewhere, it's not some big special thing. It's not a hard job either unless you deliberately make it hard for yourselves, which NS staff does.

Still does not justify people freaking out and losing their minds at people who manage this site in their free time, even if it's a light workload.

It's also incredibly counter productive if ones objective is to get the Wing Threads back.

[The Marlborough]

There was that thing with Mal in the WA a few years back

From what I recall this had waaaaaaay more backlash than this current issue. It struck a nerve with a lot of people gameside in a way that political posting in wing mega-threads just doesn’t stack up to.

Regardless there’s a lot of really absurd ideas being floated here. Whatever your opinion on moderation is, asking them to micro-manage threads and proactively go through hundreds of posts a day (megathreads produce that many) to see who is violating the rules is simply unrealistic. It isn’t going to happen.

We aren't asking for that. Asking for more mods would reduce the burden. Further, I think it's pretty clear that people want more consistent rules but also a less firm hand since de facto most people seem to allow minor rule breaking to pass to begin with.

[Neutraligon]

I would ask that people get back on track, while I understand why you are looking into past blowups, I think focusing on actual reform suggestions as well as on this particular issue would be a better way of spending both your and our time.

[The Marlborough]

A poster not so subtly alluded to going on trips to SE Asia to have sex with children and when it was reported initially nothing was done and a massive shitstorm had to be launched for anything to be done.

And didn't it only end with a warning?

No, they were removed but it took the site basically going into revolt to force that.

[Washington Resistance Army]

There was that thing with Mal in the WA a few years back

From what I recall this had waaaaaaay more backlash than this current issue. It struck a nerve with a lot of people gameside in a way that political posting in wing mega-threads just doesn’t stack up to.

Regardless there’s a lot of really absurd ideas being floated here. Whatever your opinion on moderation is, asking them to micro-manage threads and proactively go through hundreds of posts a day (megathreads produce that many) to see who is violating the rules is simply unrealistic. It isn’t going to happen.

It's hardly unrealistic. There's discords servers with thousands of active users and small mod teams that can easily keep the peace and they're far more fast paced and hard to keep track of than a forum, which is inherently static. A good well written ruleset and transparent moderation (something NS sorely lacks) goes a long way in making these things viable.

[Jedi Council]

There was that thing with Mal in the WA a few years back

Please indulge.

Do your own research, this is not a thread about past NS blowups.

Focus on the current one.

[The Reformed American Republic]

And didn't it only end with a warning?

No, they were removed but it took the site basically going into revolt to force that.

Oh, my mistake. I must have been thinking of another case.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

Please indulge.

Do your own research, this is not a thread about past NS blowups.

Focus on the current one.

You're right, I should make a thread specifically for that.