[Discussion/Announcement] NSG's "Wing" Megathreads

[Washington Resistance Army]

They're hardly fair and just, this sites rules are a meme. Actual trolling is freely allowed (see certain users lasting for years and years on General whilst contributing nothing more than low effort snark and bait, which any sensible ruleset and mod team would axe quickly) but light jabs between people who are friendly with one another leads to warns and bans.

There's also the issue of moderation seemingly skewing very old and normally not having an understanding of internet culture which leads to all sorts of hilariously ignorant rulings.

Hi! If there are players that you have concerns about, please consider reporting them for their behavior along with a few examples of their pattern of trolling so we have something to go off. It's best if you do so in a specific thread for them.

Thanks!

A bunch of people tried that for a long time, y'all always said it wasn't actionable despite being blatant trolling that would get axed anywhere else. Get better definitions for the rule shop, I'll unironically help cuz I mod elsewhere online if the team ever decides to try and fix this place.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I got smacked over a joke on an RMB as well. When I asked for my warning history via GHR politely, the response was extremely rude and sarcastic.

Unsurprising, to say the least.

I was accused of acting like a mod when I was doing nothing but defending myself from something that was so mild, the moderation even said it wasn't actionable. Their opinion only changed after I tried to defend myself because I didn't "take responsibility", which sparked that whole discussion thread.

Sorry to hear that. I just saw that outrage.

Submitting a GHR doesn't work because the moderation team answers those.

And many reply rudely on top of it. Granted, some mods are quite polite, but there are plenty that are exceptionally rude.

[Santheres]

Hi! If there are players that you have concerns about, please consider reporting them for their behavior along with a few examples of their pattern of trolling so we have something to go off. It's best if you do so in a specific thread for them.

Thanks!

That obviously does not work because said pattern of trolling is perfectly legal under the site’s rules.

Does it not? Because I've never seen someone reported for their pattern of low-key trolling, since their trolling is generally not reported. So, how about you toss one over to me and let's give it a shot? You might be wrong about their pattern but if you're that upset about it, do you have anything to lose by giving me the chance to actually look into it?

[Nouveau Quebecois]

They're hardly fair and just, this sites rules are a meme. Actual trolling is freely allowed (see certain users lasting for years and years on General whilst contributing nothing more than low effort snark and bait, which any sensible ruleset and mod team would axe quickly) but light jabs between people who are friendly with one another leads to warns and bans.

There's also the issue of moderation seemingly skewing very old and normally not having an understanding of internet culture which leads to all sorts of hilariously ignorant rulings.

Hi! If there are players that you have concerns about, please consider reporting them for their behavior along with a few examples of their pattern of trolling so we have something to go off. It's best if you do so in a specific thread for them.

Thanks!

I just want to know why don't you do that by yourself? Do you not have time for it?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Also just a friendly heads up but the dark red text is nigh impossible to read for users who have a dark theme and value their eyesight.

[South Odreria 2]

That obviously does not work because said pattern of trolling is perfectly legal under the site’s rules.

Does it not? Because I've never seen someone reported for their pattern of low-key trolling, since their trolling is generally not reported. So, how about you toss one over to me and let's give it a shot? You might be wrong about their pattern but if you're that upset about it, do you have anything to lose by giving me the chance to actually look into it?

Not optimistic but I’ll do one tomorrow after work.

[The Reformed American Republic]

This anger has been brewing for a while.

[The Lone Alliance]

Very much so. This certainly helps feed into this perception that the rules are unfair, when in reality, they are fair and just, we just need to report things more than we currently do.

And all of this ties back to these threads being locked, given that if the offending posts were reported, in conjunction with self-moderation, then those threads would still be open. Alas...

It's not a moderation bias it's a reporting bias.

They're hardly fair and just, this sites rules are a meme. Actual trolling is freely allowed (see certain users lasting for years and years on General whilst contributing nothing more than low effort snark and bait, which any sensible ruleset and mod team would axe quickly) but light jabs between people who are friendly with one another leads to warns and bans.

I will agree there are likely a few "Bad faith posters" on the site who rarely actually break the rules but degrade the site because they rarely post anything in good faith.

There's also the issue of moderation seemingly skewing very old and normally not having an understanding of internet culture which leads to all sorts of hilariously ignorant rulings.

That's just a general problem with the internet in general, internet culture is hard to keep up with.

[Lavan Tiri]

This anger has been brewing for a while.

In you, or the community in general?

[Neanderthaland]

Only on NationStates do the moderators not want to moderate.

This is a strange criticism, since everyone keeps getting on their case for moderating too much.

You can't win, can you?

[Luziyca]

Hi! If there are players that you have concerns about, please consider reporting them for their behavior along with a few examples of their pattern of trolling so we have something to go off. It's best if you do so in a specific thread for them.

Thanks!

I just want to know why don't you do that by yourself? Do you not have time for it?

Sure, let's have every single mod on this site work on this forum that doesn't pay them 24/7/365, with no breaks whatsoever. It's not like they need to eat, to pay bills, to work, to sleep, or anything like that.

[The Reformed American Republic]

This anger has been brewing for a while.

In you, or the community in general?

The community or at least sections of it.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

Only on NationStates do the moderators not want to moderate.

This is a strange criticism, since everyone keeps getting on their case for moderating too much.

You can't win, can you?

I wouldn't say too much moderation is a problem. Harsh, aggressive inconsistent moderation is what they mean to say in detail.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I just want to know why don't you do that by yourself? Do you not have time for it?

Sure, let's have every single mod on this site work on this forum that doesn't pay them 24/7/365, with no breaks whatsoever. It's not like they need to eat, to pay bills, to work, to sleep, or anything like that.

Tbh it's not hard to have 24/7 mod coverage. Recruiting people from different timezones so you always have people on hand is hella easy.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Hi! If there are players that you have concerns about, please consider reporting them for their behavior along with a few examples of their pattern of trolling so we have something to go off. It's best if you do so in a specific thread for them.

Thanks!

I just want to know why don't you do that by yourself? Do you not have time for it?

I don't think that is a good criticism.

[South Odreria 2]

I just want to know why don't you do that by yourself? Do you not have time for it?

I don't think that is a good criticism.

Indeed

[Nouveau Quebecois]

I just want to know why don't you do that by yourself? Do you not have time for it?

Sure, let's have every single mod on this site work on this forum that doesn't pay them 24/7/365, with no breaks whatsoever. It's not like they need to eat, to pay bills, to work, to sleep, or anything like that.

Everyone needs to eat, pay bills, work, and sleep. None of those activities are NS Mod-exclusive.

[Lavan Tiri]

In you, or the community in general?

The community or at least sections of it.

*big shrug*

I mean, yeah. That's what happens when a small group of people wield power over another group, who have no effective way to hold them accountable for abuses of that power or any say in what constitutes a use of said power

[Nouveau Quebecois]

I don't think that is a good criticism.

Indeed

And was everything else I have been saying 'good criticism'?

[Neutraligon]

The community or at least sections of it.

*big shrug*

I mean, yeah. That's what happens when a small group of people wield power over another group, who have no effective way to hold them accountable for abuses of that power or any say in what constitutes a use of said power

There is a reason we keep repeating what to do if you think abuses are happening. You do have venues.

[Reploid Productions]

For the record, GHRs regarding alleged moderator misconduct are not addressed by any member of the moderation team. That would be an instant "that mod gets removed from their position" level offense. Those get flagged for the admins to look at, hence why the "complaints of mod abuse-" boilerplate includes that bit about "the administrators have very little patience for frivolous or outright fraudulent reports, and are liable to dismiss incomplete, unspecific, or wildly generalized complaints outright." [violet] and Max get quite testy about their time being wasted on unspecific, wildly generalized complaints.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

*big shrug*

I mean, yeah. That's what happens when a small group of people wield power over another group, who have no effective way to hold them accountable for abuses of that power or any say in what constitutes a use of said power

There is a reason we keep repeating what to do if you think abuses are happening. You do have venues.

When was the last time a member of the staff was reprimanded for misconduct? I don't mean a mod warning another mod, I mean, when has a mod told another mod to stop? Or that they were wrong? How often do these "considerable internal reviews" happen?

[USS Monitor]

Unsurprising, to say the least.

I was accused of acting like a mod when I was doing nothing but defending myself from something that was so mild, the moderation even said it wasn't actionable. Their opinion only changed after I tried to defend myself because I didn't "take responsibility", which sparked that whole discussion thread.

I do think there is a tremendous lack of accountability from the Moderators to the site users: you can look at these examples and you can look at this thread (with some of the supposedly "bad faith" posts that were snipped being mostly reasonable) for proof. Submitting a GHR doesn't work because the moderation team answers those.

It's worth noting that some of the examples you guys are bringing up are many years old. They are minor incidents that the mods probably forgot about a long time ago. Newer mods weren't even there. Because the cases are so old, they would not lead to escalating punishments if you broke another rule today.

The posts that have been removed from this thread are more relevant than some incident from years ago. Whether the removals were justified is between you and the mods, since I did not see all of the posts.

[Minskiev]

I made a post but then it disappeared out of thin air when I clicked the post button...

*insert generic dad milk store joke here*

[Nouveau Quebecois]

For the record, GHRs regarding alleged moderator misconduct are not addressed by any member of the moderation team. That would be an instant "that mod gets removed from their position" level offense. Those get flagged for the admins to look at, hence why the "complaints of mod abuse-" boilerplate includes that bit about "the administrators have very little patience for frivolous or outright fraudulent reports, and are liable to dismiss incomplete, unspecific, or wildly generalized complaints outright." [violet] and Max get quite testy about their time being wasted on unspecific, wildly generalized complaints.

Ok, so has a Moderator Misconduct report ever gone through to the 'reprimand said mod' stage?