by United Muscovite Nations » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:17 pm
by Katganistan » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:07 am
by Greater vakolicci haven » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:55 am
Katganistan wrote:We have had mental health threads before, which have devolved into players suggesting others should self-harm, and none of us are trained mental health workers. For the safety of everyone involved, it was decided that such threads should not exist.
by The New California Republic » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:13 am
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:If people suggest that somebody self-harms, they should be reported like anybody else who breaks the rules.
by United Muscovite Nations » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:22 am
The New California Republic wrote:Greater vakolicci haven wrote:If people suggest that somebody self-harms, they should be reported like anybody else who breaks the rules.
But by the time Moderation intervenes the harm—literally in this case—will in all likelihood have already occurred. Hence the outright ban on threads that may invite such talk.
by The New California Republic » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:35 am
United Muscovite Nations wrote:The New California Republic wrote:But by the time Moderation intervenes the harm—literally in this case—will in all likelihood have already occurred. Hence the outright ban on threads that may invite such talk.
Then why not ban the two other threads that invite such talk? The only reason I can think for it is that one existed before the rule was made, and the other was made without even asking moderation. As it stands, the only way you're allowed to tell other people on the site about your mental health struggles is through either TG or if you're a transsexual.
by United Muscovite Nations » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:37 am
The New California Republic wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:Then why not ban the two other threads that invite such talk? The only reason I can think for it is that one existed before the rule was made, and the other was made without even asking moderation. As it stands, the only way you're allowed to tell other people on the site about your mental health struggles is through either TG or if you're a transsexual.
Do they though? I'd argue that a general mental illness thread, since it has a much wider base of discussion, would be a much bigger and overt target for suggesting people harm/kill themselves.
by Grenartia » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:41 am
by United Muscovite Nations » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:42 am
Grenartia wrote:I wouldn't say that all that happens in the TDT is support. There is a lot of debate, often from transphobic people. We try our best to put out the fires, but unless there's actual rulebreaking going on, there's nothing we can do to get it to stop.
by United Republic Empire » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:44 am
United Muscovite Nations wrote:The New California Republic wrote:But by the time Moderation intervenes the harm—literally in this case—will in all likelihood have already occurred. Hence the outright ban on threads that may invite such talk.
Then why not ban the two other threads that invite such talk? The only reason I can think for it is that one existed before the rule was made, and the other was made without even asking moderation. As it stands, the only way you're allowed to tell other people on the site about your mental health struggles is through either TG or if you're a transsexual.
by United Muscovite Nations » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:45 am
United Republic Empire wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:Then why not ban the two other threads that invite such talk? The only reason I can think for it is that one existed before the rule was made, and the other was made without even asking moderation. As it stands, the only way you're allowed to tell other people on the site about your mental health struggles is through either TG or if you're a transsexual.
Because one discusses mental health illnesses and the other about trans life. I have to wonder and ask if you're comparing the two because you believe being trans is a mental disorder ??. Not accusing, just asking.
by Grenartia » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:48 am
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Grenartia wrote:I wouldn't say that all that happens in the TDT is support. There is a lot of debate, often from transphobic people. We try our best to put out the fires, but unless there's actual rulebreaking going on, there's nothing we can do to get it to stop.
There could be in a mental illness support thread too, with people sharing their experiences, that sort of thing. My point though is that there is already a thread that could potentially invite large numbers of people raiding to tell people to kill themselves.
by Katganistan » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:50 am
United Muscovite Nations wrote:United Republic Empire wrote:
Because one discusses mental health illnesses and the other about trans life. I have to wonder and ask if you're comparing the two because you believe being trans is a mental disorder ??. Not accusing, just asking.
No, because their community has a higher suicide rate than any mental illness and has a dedicated online community that hates them. If they don't get raided routinely by people telling them to go kill themselves, then it seems unlikely that such would happen in a mental illness thread.
by United Muscovite Nations » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:53 am
Grenartia wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:There could be in a mental illness support thread too, with people sharing their experiences, that sort of thing. My point though is that there is already a thread that could potentially invite large numbers of people raiding to tell people to kill themselves.
I mean, I get your point. I even agree with it on some level. But as far as I can tell, the primary function of TDT, at least from Moderation's official POV, is debate and discussion, not support (it just so happens to do that in a secondary and unofficial capacity). In order for there to be support as a primary function, any thread would probably have to be a safe space, which means Moderation has to focus more of their energy on enforcing the safe space, and you'll get trolls coming in, and trolling simply because they hate the fact that a safe space exists anywhere. There just isn't the institutional willpower to have official support threads. I hate it, but that's the way things currently stand.
by Grenartia » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:06 pm
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Grenartia wrote:
I mean, I get your point. I even agree with it on some level. But as far as I can tell, the primary function of TDT, at least from Moderation's official POV, is debate and discussion, not support (it just so happens to do that in a secondary and unofficial capacity). In order for there to be support as a primary function, any thread would probably have to be a safe space, which means Moderation has to focus more of their energy on enforcing the safe space, and you'll get trolls coming in, and trolling simply because they hate the fact that a safe space exists anywhere. There just isn't the institutional willpower to have official support threads. I hate it, but that's the way things currently stand.
Then why not just not have support as the primary function? I say support, but what I would really like is just a place where people can discuss their experiences, discuss the state of mental healthcare, discuss issues about discrimination, etc.
by Farnhamia » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:13 pm
Grenartia wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:Then why not just not have support as the primary function? I say support, but what I would really like is just a place where people can discuss their experiences, discuss the state of mental healthcare, discuss issues about discrimination, etc.
I don't necessarily see why you can't make that thread as long as you're clear that's the intention behind it.
by United Muscovite Nations » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:15 pm
by The New California Republic » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:16 pm
United Muscovite Nations wrote:The New California Republic wrote:Do they though? I'd argue that a general mental illness thread, since it has a much wider base of discussion, would be a much bigger and overt target for suggesting people harm/kill themselves.
Trans people and people with Autism have high suicide rates compared to the general population and both have communities online that are basically dedicated to having them. Hell, it's shocking the trans thread doesn't get more raids, the fact that it doesn't should show that a support thread is a viable concept.
by Grenartia » Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:41 am
The New California Republic wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:Trans people and people with Autism have high suicide rates compared to the general population and both have communities online that are basically dedicated to having them. Hell, it's shocking the trans thread doesn't get more raids, the fact that it doesn't should show that a support thread is a viable concept.
Tbh the TDT hasn't been that bad in the past few months, but it has previously had a tendency to get pretty bad in terms of people just parachuting in to hurl abuse.
by Ethel mermania » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:28 am
by The New California Republic » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:46 am
Ethel mermania wrote:Please no,
the lack of qualified people on this site to talk about mental illness is frightening. Bad advice as it is abounds. Not to mention potential liability to the site for it. In the USA there may be some protection in section 230, other nations, not so much.
by Frisbeeteria » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:09 pm
The New California Republic wrote: I'm also quite worried about the amateur psychiatrists coming crawling out of the woodwork
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:23 pm
Ethel mermania wrote:Please no,
the lack of qualified people on this site to talk about mental illness is frightening. Bad advice as it is abounds. Not to mention potential liability to the site for it. In the USA there may be some protection in section 230, other nations, not so much.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Grenartia » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:33 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Ethel mermania wrote:Please no,
the lack of qualified people on this site to talk about mental illness is frightening. Bad advice as it is abounds. Not to mention potential liability to the site for it. In the USA there may be some protection in section 230, other nations, not so much.
As much as I understand the desire to help or give some people a place to vent, when it comes to mental illness, I agree that this is best left in the hands of healthcare professionals. Even with good intentions, you can give someone ‘advice’ that can turn out to be more harmful than good. That’s one Pandora’s box we should never open.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:38 pm
Grenartia wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
As much as I understand the desire to help or give some people a place to vent, when it comes to mental illness, I agree that this is best left in the hands of healthcare professionals. Even with good intentions, you can give someone ‘advice’ that can turn out to be more harmful than good. That’s one Pandora’s box we should never open.
If memory serves, that same "bad advice" objection was raised in connection to the TDT, but that has not really borne out. If its really a concern, then as long as there's a blanket "we're not professional mental health experts, seek such persons for such advice", and it is enforced, is there really a problem?
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
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